Prenups?

Good afternoon all you wise and wonderful women (and men) out there. I am wondering how many of you have prenuptial agreements & if you think it is a wise decision to have one.

My SO and I (both divorced) have decided to tie the knot in April (yay!). I own my own house and that is where we will live. I also have some other assets that I would like to protect so my children will have the benefit of them.

That said, I love my SO completely and have every confidence that we will be together forever.....but you never know.

I would love to hear your thoughts & advice. Thank you in advance!

When I got married, the Chief and I were young and neither of us had anything, so a prenup would have been nonsense.

But if I were to find myself single and considering marriage again now, I would definitely consider doing a prenup for just the reasons you're considering it. Nobody knows what the future holds.

Oh and btw, congrats on your impending marriage!:)

Thank you, JuJu! We have been together for seven years now so I guess it's time...:D

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Originally Posted by IFjane

Good afternoon all you wise and wonderful women (and men) out there. I am wondering how many of you have prenuptial agreements & if you think it is a wise decision to have one.

My SO and I (both divorced) have decided to tie the knot in April (yay!). I own my own house and that is where we will live. I also have some other assets that I would like to protect so my children will have the benefit of them.

That said, I love my SO completely and have every confidence that we will be together forever.....but you never know.

I would love to hear your thoughts & advice. Thank you in advance!

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My advice--as an attorney--is that you talk to an attorney, not only about the pros and cons of a prenup, but also about estate planning in general. If you don't already have one, it sounds like you may need a will.

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Originally Posted by Bad JuJu

When I got married, the Chief and I were young and neither of us had anything, so a prenup would have been nonsense.



But if I were to find myself single and considering marriage again now, I would definitely consider doing a prenup for just the reasons you're considering it. Nobody knows what the future holds.

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first quote- When we got married, we had the same assets- none-
and we're still even on finances, it's ours together regardless.

Tough choice on the second one. I personally don't like them, I think it sets people up for the inevitable. I know we can't predict the future, but I would have a will where my assets go and if you've been together and know each other well and long enough, then a prenup shouldn't be an issue. I don't care what society pushes at us. If either party is against it, then it shouldn't be done. Prenups can put a strain on the best relationships. Just my 2 cents. Best wishes to both of you IFJane. Jenn

Also a lawyer, The most common reason I've seen to have a pre-nup is to agree what happens at death, not divorce. Esp when kids are yours & mine.

congrats on your engagement! I have to say, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who is concerned about this. Don't wanna be a downer, but I totally understand and empathize with your concern here... best of luck to you in whatever you decide... :)

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Originally Posted by SouthernBelle

Also a lawyer, The most common reason I've seen to have a pre-nup is to agree what happens at death, not divorce. Esp when kids are yours & mine.

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I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV :rolleyes:

Dumb question of the day: if a pre-nup is only for what happens at death not divorce than why not just have a will? :confused:

Yeah, I was wondering that too Trek?

DH and I were in the same situation when we got married last March. We had started to do a prenup type document when we moved in together but then never got around to it. Now we've decided to just make sure our wills are up to date. Course we haven't got around to that either... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

Course we haven't got around to that either... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Yeah but you are busy riding. I'm really bad, there's no excuse, I need to do a will. No intention of using it of course :rolleyes: but I do have a house and a dog and 3 bikes and .... now there will be a rush PM's of "can you put me down for the mixte?"

We didn't have any assets when we got married, so no need for a prenup. However, my widower FIL just remarried to a widow, and moved into her house. Her house is in a land trust, which I believe stipulates what happens in case of her death. I think they looked at it as a way of making sure my FIL doesn't get displaced from his new home if his wife were to die, but he can't sell the house and take the profits away from the kids. You might consider researching that a bit more.

I can also say that the kids from at least my FIL's side were very concerned about the lack of a prenup, and while they haven't said anything out loud to their father, it has caused some strain for the kids.

I'm not a lawyer, but a couple of thoughts:

Emotionally, the right answer depends on how confident you are that you're in this forever (and how confident you are that HE feels the same way). How would you feel about this if he made a mistake (if you get my drift...)

Legally:

• Laws vary from state to state...as Indysteel said, consult with a lawyer...but remember, a lawyer will tell you to get a pre-nup...a really good lawyer will understand the emotional side as well.
• Divorce laws in many states favor the woman - particularly if there are kids (I'm not making a judgment here...just an observation)...this may place you at an advantage anyway
• Some state laws allow for consideration of premarital asset composition in determination of post-marital distribution...thus allowing you to take out what you brought in.

Financially, you mention what you have...but does he have something of equal, but different, value that would equalize?

My encouragement is that if you are sure that this is a mutual relationship and that you would both be forgiving of the other's flaws and mistakes, then skip the pre-nup.

I'm married, but if I were remarrying at this point in my life, I would want a prenup & wills. I would consider the ability to discuss our financial intentions & come to agreement on this to be a sign of the strength of the partnership.

It is reality that you're each entering the relationship with different assets & your own children. Dealing with that openly & clearly is a positive thing to me.

And all of you who don't have wills- get busy out there! :)

No, a lawyer will not necessarily tell you to get a prenup. Most of the attorneys I know think they are a waste of time and/or a bad idea for most situations. Specific situations might warrant them, but there is a whole system of property division laws in place, and mostly they have been hammered out to be as fair and predictable as possible in most situations. None of the lawyers I know have prenups, including me -- if I'd felt the need to do something different with my assets than what the marital property laws provide for, I would not have gotten married in the first place.

Your situation does sound like one where you should talk to a lawyer, though.

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My encouragement is that if you are sure that this is a mutual relationship and that you would both be forgiving of the other's flaws and mistakes, then skip the pre-nup.

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To be fair... who goes into a marriage thinking ANY differently? And if you are thinking differently... then why are you getting married?

I would bet that 96% (? or more) of people who are divorced... didn't think they would be. I'm divorced, and I can tell you, I NEVER thought I would be.

With that said... if someone has been married... and divorced... I think it's safe to say that a "well, anything can happen" can pop into one's head. Never say never... right?


I don't have anything of much value... but IF I ever got married again, I would go with prenup... that is if you can have a prenup that says, "If the man cheats on the woman, he is required to leave the marriage and pay for all debts incurred during the marriage". Of course, I doubt prenups cover cheating a-holes.

Anyhoo... GO WITH THE PRENUP. You have kids... and point out that HE gets to PROTECT his ASSESTS to. I think Paul MacCarthy's (McCarthy?) divorce is a prime example of why prenups are needed. Obviously to the extreme, but still. A prenup protects BOTH sides.

I am my husband's second wife and he has 2 children. We married when I had a lot of money invested in mutual funds and all of his money was sunk into the house that we ended up living in. I have no children and don't intend to have any. The short story is that our financial situation when we married was very complicated. We did not do a pre-nup, we simply went to a lawyer and figured out what we wanted and put that into a will. I don't know if that helps but it worked well for us.

Congratulations!!! You'll have to fill us in on the wedding plans, ok?

Yes, congrats!!!!

I am divorced and remarried. When I got divorced, my ex-dh and I were very civil. He was so generous, he was worried about me and really went above and beyond financially and otherwise. The hurt was still there, granted, but it was peaceful. When I got remarried, we didn't even think of a prenup.

I know that nobody ever goes into it doubtful, as KSH said. If there are concerns, yeah, hold off on that wedding. I guess though I looked at who I was marrying and saw his past and how he treated people and if he was a person of honor and fairness. DH does have a ne'er do well son who almost means well but ends up taking advantage so I guess I could see a will or something if something happened to DH. We're bad that way, we just combined bank accounts after a year of marriage (11/19).

So, dunno. Everyone here has made some really valid points. And speakin' of cheating a-holes...I do know of someone way back when who was married and had an auto repair business. He fixed vintage cars and was highly specialized. His wife cheated on him, he found her in a compromising position at their house with the grocery delivery guy or something like that. He had to start hiding car parts because despite the fact it was his business, she was entitled to half. That is simply rude.

Anyway, I can't wait to hear details of your wedding plans :D

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Originally Posted by KSH

To be fair... who goes into a marriage thinking ANY differently? And if you are thinking differently... then why are you getting married?

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You're absolutely right.

My view is that if you lay the ground work for a "divorce with ease", then divorce becomes easier to justify than trying to work it out.

I for one believe that laws have evolved to make divorce too easy and I believe that it should be something difficult to get to.

To be fair, I think that marriage is too easy as well and that pre-marital counseling should be a condition of marriage licenses...

teigyr: thanks for pointing out that infidelity is not just a "male thing". I only know a few divorced men, but 80% of them were the ones who were cheated on... I'm not saying they were blameless though...and they know it (at least now)

Well... we were married 22 years ago and pre-nups were about to make a big splash here as something one did if one was a hollywood star...

He had lots (land, house, assets) - I had nothing... Now we both have each other, kids and lots of bits and pieces.

I really do not like the idea of pre-nups, as this admits the relationship may fail... BUT (BIG qualifier here)... I know there are two situations I would agree to a pre-nup...

1. if it is a second relationship and there are children involved. The children's assets and quality of life MUST be protected in event of a realtionship breakdown, or the injury or death of their parent.

2. if one partner has accrued significant wealth... such as the situation I was in when I was 20. I would have been happy to sign a pre-nup to PROVE that I was in it for the long haul and the relationship was NOT about me getting assets... (I know some of his family wondered about my motivation as we were married 6 weeks after our "first kiss").



KSH and Mr Silver... I think the legal and social tie makes the marriage different from committing to each other without "official" mariage vows... my sister-in-laws and friends who have lived together (with respective partners - not each other!) have all said this to me in one way or another. Before marriage, they thought nothing would be different - but they had only lived together for a year or two - not seven :)

. I think in some ways the social expectation of a married couple (how they will do things, be with each other, divide chores, roles in raising children) has a greater influence... and these expectations are slightly different from those who have made exactly the same committment without tying the knot...



Congratulations on your decision... although I know you have already made the committment to each other - it is nice to affirm this to everyone around you with such a celebration
Enjoy YOUR day.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Silver

Financially, you mention what you have...but does he have something of equal, but different, value that would equalize?

My encouragement is that if you are sure that this is a mutual relationship and that you would both be forgiving of the other's flaws and mistakes, then skip the pre-nup.

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Thank you all for your comments and advice. I am still torn on this issue. To his credit, Michael is the one who brought up the subject of a prenuptial agreement. I had not even thought about it. And even more to his credit, I am the one who has much more to lose than he. He has some investments but the potential (trust fund) for me to have much more exists. My children are grown, but eventually they will inherit the same trust I should inherit.

I feel the same about prenups - that they imply that the marriage might fail; and they do make divorce easier.

Keep the comments coming - and I will let you know what we decide.

Velobambina - thank you! Yes, I will tell you all about the wedding plans. Definitely a cycling theme, but that's for a new thread. ;)

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Originally Posted by IFjane

I feel the same about prenups - that they imply that the marriage might fail; and they do make divorce easier.

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Just a thought...depending on how they're written, isn't is possible that a prenup might also be a strong deterrent to a divorce, depending on the circumstances?

I too hate the idea of prenups, and would prefer things like wills, revocable living trusts, or what-have-you.

However, as one who got married (after 3 solid years with the person) with a THIS IS IT FOREVER, and WHAT'S MINE IS YOURS FOREVER attitude, I can say that unforeseeable, unimagineable injuries can happen that might make a prior agreement better than struggling through the legal system.

That said, I don't know what I would do next time around. I am a different person after my experience. Probably avoid the next time around! :rolleyes:

Wills are generally not recordable documents until after death. They can also be changed. They have also been known to disappear.

You can draw up a pre-nup, record it, then if the original disappears, the recorded copy is as good as.

I've had quite good luck with them.

However, this differs from state to state.

One advantage to them is that both parties have a clear understanding of their financial situation and what the other expects.

I've seen some nasty situations, right at the graveyard.

I've also seen surviving SO with no marriage certificate kicked out of a home.

They aren't romantic, but they are binding. There are other ways to do it though.

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Originally Posted by IFjane

To his credit, Michael is the one who brought up the subject of a prenuptial agreement. I had not even thought about it. And even more to his credit, I am the one who has much more to lose than he.

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I think that's a sincere expression of love from him and he's putting it on the line.

Now, the question is whether you'll put it on the line. Sounds like you can't make a bad decision here;) But I acknowledge that it's easier to put something on the line that you don't have than it is to put something on the line that you do have;)

FWIW, in Indiana, the courts typically exclude inherited assets in divorce distributions. In addition, if you inherit a trust, you might have the option of keeping the trust intact providing further protection to you (but I'm not a lawyer...)