crashing with clipless pedals

I had a crash today on my new jamis quest - I apparently hit a stick that got caught in my spokes and bam. I went right over the top of the handlebars, cracked the front of my helmet , lost skin on both hands (thank goodness for gloves), split my lip and have a big bruise on my chin, and lost a fair bit of flesh on both my shoulder and my elbow. My question is are injuries different with clipless than without - I was clipped in -but I wonder if I would have fallen differently and gotten smashed less with regular pedals?

I have had one major crash with "normal pedals", and one major one with clip-ins.

Both times I somersaulted over my bike and rolled on the tarseal road.

Both times the bike followed me and bounced off me before I continued rolling.

In that crash (with the clip-ins and doing about 30/32kph), my feet unclipped themselves...

I do not think there would be a big injury difference at speed.

I am not sure how that pans at lower speeds though, when the impact is less likely to remove your shoes from the bike...

The one time I fell was something like you described, stick in spokes=bam land on head/back.

I couldn't see the being clipped in as being a factor, in fact I think that if I hadn't been clipped in the force of the fall would have thrown me further from the bike, instead I just landed on my back with the bike on top of me. My feet did come unclipped, and this was a fairly low-speed fall (I was going up a logpile and one of the logs came loose, so I was at the top of the pile at my lowest speed when the fall happened). Maybe some ladies could chime in with physics info, but I would think your trajectory would be the same in the situation with our without clipless pedals.

K.

I did become unclipped and I was going about 19 mph (I had just checked computer and was feeling very bikerish-pride before a fall). I just wondered -because I landed pretty much right on the front of my head (the helmet happliy) and would prefer in the future to figure out how to fall to the side rather than flip over the top.

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Originally Posted by farrellcollie

I did become unclipped and I was going about 19 mph (I had just checked computer and was feeling very bikerish-pride before a fall). I just wondered -because I landed pretty much right on the front of my head (the helmet happliy) and would prefer in the future to figure out how to fall to the side rather than flip over the top.

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It takes, I'm afraid to say... practice.

With my club we had a "practice crash session" in a gym with our sport psychologist who used to be a gymnast. We practiced "tuck and roll" (including one time jumping off an actual bike...) and maximizing surface in a fall (you want to hit your whole thigh, not on your knee or hip - big bruise, but less chance of fracture - or the whole side of your upper arm, not on your hands, which would possibly break your wrists).

It's not the same as practicing actual crashes from the bike (on grass, for instance) but it does help developing reflexes. Of course when you do fall you don't have the time to think about it. It must be ingrained in your nervous system so that the instruction to "roll" doesn't have to come from your brain...

When I ride fast I try to ride in the drops so that if there is a sudden stop I will be able to brace my arms to fight fast deceleration. However if it's an immediate stop (as if your front wheel jams, like what happened to you) then there isn't much you can do. Practice might help you roll to your side instead of to the front of the bike, but the laws of physics are still more powerful.

ETA: Practicing fast stops is also a good thing to do. You can practice first on a flat, empty parking lot, gaining some speed and then braking with only the front, then only the rear, then combination of both brakes, to see what happens with your bike and how your body weight gets shifted around...

For the first time today in over 20+ years of serious riding, I was in a group that had to call for an ambulance. The rider was new to road riding, her bike wasn't fit properly, was not tuned up, and she had no handling skills. Add in a jerk of a "friend" that didn't know the route but kept assuring the ride leader that her friend could handle it even when the ride leader tried to get her to take an easier route back. The "friend" kept riding off the front abandoning her to the mercies of winding descents with a high speed 90 degree turn and a saddle that was so high her feet kept bouncing off the pedals. The "friend" didn't ride where she could see the problems her buddy was having and it was obvious at the start that "friend" was the one was the one doling out the "advice." When they couldn't pump up the rear tire for the umpteenth time (admitted it was a repeat problem), left the front brake QR open and had let the cables stretch so the levers were bottoming out, we should've known something bad was going to happen.

So when she hit the high speed turn using tennis shoes and platforms and out of control? She came to rest still astride her bike 3 feet in the air pinned between a diagonal 4" pipe and a hog wire fence. I still don't know how she got there but I will never forget the sound of it directly behind me. Thank goodness for the fence because her head would otherwise have been left behind on the telephone pole while her body continued on.

She is in the hospital tonight with no severe head or neck injuries but she fractured her tibia high enough to need medal plates or pins.

The point of the story is that even with platform pedals she and the bike traveled together through the air. Sh$t happens but this didn't need to. I personally don't think clipless pedals set at a light tension are any more apt to cause injury than platforms. Inattentiveness, lack of skills and bad kharma are far greater problems.

farrellcollie, I'm not pointing fingers at you. I wasn't there. I just need to spill a little of my grief and frustration over today's ride, and it happened to involve an instance where clipless vs platform wouldn't have made a whit of difference. This crap didn't need to happen. And I won't even go into the jerk friend's response to the accident and her treatment of the highway patrol officer who was trying to help.

SK,

That stinks. Now the woman in the hospital will have an unnecessarily bad fear of biking because of this and her friend doesn't sound like much of a friend at all.

It is too bad she was not brought into the sport in a more caring way. :mad:

wow, what a story.

When I was in my teens i did great dive rolls. Unfortunately now I'm in my 50's and don't want to practice them. I only hope given the chance I would do the right thing instinctively.
About 5 years I fell and did a roll in the air (was it a dive roll?) but the ribs contacted the ground first, and cracked, but i did continue rolling and except for those ribs and a little pride i was not badly hurt. I was not clipped in, I have no idea what the bike did on that fall.

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Originally Posted by tygab

It is too bad she was not brought into the sport in a more caring way. :mad:

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The other 5 of us were trying, but you know how a group ride goes when you don't know someone. I kind of turned into a group mechanic and coach, but I could only do so much.

Earlier, the two had crashed into each other. "Friend" blamed it on the newbie while the rest of us blamed it on "friend's" iPod.

Ya gotta love someone who brings a friend to a group ride and then wears earphones because "she gets bored on long climbs." 1) The friend and the group aren't enough entertainment? and 2) What long climbs? A mile at 2-3% does not a climb, long or otherwise, make.

Sorry to hear about that bad ride.
I was riding alone and I am careful about limbs and road debris - this was a small piece of tree about 5 inches that I got caught in my spokes- - mine was just a kind of freak accident - besides a sprained wrist and some banged up body parts -
I am fine - and lucky.

I am concerned about the road debris problem - it isn't like I ran over a huge branch - here (as I would imagine most places) there is a lot of crap on the road - lots of trees line the roads - no way to avoid all little sticks- I am a little freaked about that - I am also really sore and puffy today which is adding to my paranoia.

I crashed earlier this spring (rr tracks with the wooden ties, tried to avoid a splintered section, zigged/zagged maybe too abruptly and tire must have slipped on the metal rail). I have spd clips. When my friend came back to pick me and my bike out of the road, she asked me how I got unclipped. I don't recall unclipping but must have unclipped in relation to the fall. I was upright, then laying on the ground in less than a blink of the eye. Unclipping was my last thought, and I think it was done by mechanism alone. Glad you are okay, sounds like quite the tumble you took..

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Originally Posted by farrellcollie

I am concerned about the road debris problem - it isn't like I ran over a huge branch - here (as I would imagine most places) there is a lot of crap on the road - lots of trees line the roads - no way to avoid all little sticks- I am a little freaked about that - I am also really sore and puffy today which is adding to my paranoia.

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Different bikes handle rough conditions differently. If you're on a bike with a fairly aggressive body position, skinny tires, and racing oriented geometry, it will handle road debris fairly badly. If you're on a bike with a moderate or relaxed body position, touring or commuter slicks and touring style geometry, the bike will handle road debris better. Most mountain bikes will handle road debris pretty well, but if it's a bad frame fit or you're not used to the way they handle, they can be really bad. Practice counts for a lot :).

For *most* falls, you and the bike will move in pretty much the same direction. It's well worth practicing falling at least a little, if you've got someone who can spot for you. It's also worth doing things like practicing riding S curves, and learning to "jump" obstacles. Every little bit of "trick" riding gives you more tools for when things go south.

I have commuted on a heavy hybrid for years and I never had any difficulty/accidents etc.. I got a road bike last year and a different one this year - (I did not ride the first one much - never got fit right) and added clipless last yr too - more falls than before and now this one with (just discovered) broken bones and torn ligaments - so I look to the pedals for answers. When I had this fall - it is right on my normal commute route - so the concern about this happening again grows.

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Originally Posted by farrellcollie

I have commuted on a heavy hybrid for years and I never had any difficulty/accidents etc.. I got a road bike last year and a different one this year - (I did not ride the first one much - never got fit right) and added clipless last yr too - more falls than before and now this one with (just discovered) broken bones and torn ligaments - so I look to the pedals for answers. When I had this fall - it is right on my normal commute route - so the concern about this happening again grows.

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I'm so sorry about your broken bones, that sucks!!!

Road bikes handle very differently from hybrids. You can put your clipless pedals on your hybrid and see what happens, if you want the full experient... ! But I would suspect that the "nervousness" of the road bike (tiny tires, frame geometry, etc...) and possibly the fact that you ride faster would have more to do with the severity of accidents than the pedals alone... (even if they are maybe a factor...)

Good luck!!

SadieKate-
My feeling is that there will always be inexperienced riders accompanied by clueless "friends" trying to ride in club rides and groups. The leader needs to be more assertive about preventing a dangerous situation, because obviously the clueless ones don't believe the situation IS dangerous. That new rider was obviously going way too fast around a curve and had already shown she did not have the skills and was new to riding.
Yes the two friends were the ones causing the dangerous situation. But I bet the ride leader(s) will not allow this situation to happen at all from now on.
I also think ipods should simply not be allowed on group rides under any circumstances. These things need to be enforced by whoever is leading a ride, and the general group should discuss and agree on safety issues once in a while.
Some people will do as much stupid stuff as they are allowed to get away with. :rolleyes: