Need Friend Advice

I'm headed to Vegas with a group of about 9 or 10 friends in September, which is just gonna be so much fun. However, a friend of mine approached me the other day saying she wants to go to, she's a peripheral part of this group of friends, she knows them all and has hung out with us a bunch of times. This friend has some issues though. She tends to drink A LOT and then get very angry and moody. She's sought out counseling for this a few times in the past, but she doesn't stick with it and not much has changed.

I'm very concerned about her coming on this trip, my group of friends doesn't want her to go because they don't want to have to deal with her behaivor, and I don't want to have to babysit her the whole time or feel responsible for brining her on the trip and ruining other people's good times.

I have no idea how to approach her about this, either telling her if she goes she's responsible for herself, or telling her she just can't come on the trip. I don't think I can say that to a friend and I don't see how to say anything like that to her with out seriously hurting her feelings and our friendship.

Does anyone have any advice??

First, who organized the trip? If it was someone else's idea, I would defer to that person. If it was an idea that a bunch of you came up with jointly, then you have the power to deal with this on your own.

How close are you to this friend? How would you feel if the relationship did not survive this issue?

I have a similar "friend." I feel bad for her situation more than anything else, and we used to be really good friends 30 years ago, but life took her in another direction. Now, I think she needs the connection to me more than I need the connection. She's a good person deep down, but way too many issues for me. I imagine the two of us in your situation. And, if that were the case, I'd sit with her and tell her that I care for her, we go way back, etc., but ... we are all going on this trip to have fun with no worries, and her history has us worried that if she went to Vegas she may have trouble with the alcohol, and it may cause worries and concerns for the rest of us. Bottom line, everyone's concerned about her joining the trip. I'm telling you this because I care about you and I don't want you to be in a situation like that, and I don't think you want to be in that situation either. Etc.

As with everything else in life, it's all in how you present it.

Of course, you run the risk of her getting hurt and mad and not being your friend anymore. But, if it's said with love and caring, then you cannot fault yourself. She has been through treatment many times, and she has to know that eventually this behavior is going to sever relationships with people who do not behave like she does. Who knows, it could end up being the catalyst to recovery.

Good luck.

Ditto.

(very well said, Quint)

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Originally Posted by quint41

Of course, you run the risk of her getting hurt and mad and not being your friend anymore. But, if it's said with love and caring, then you cannot fault yourself. She has been through treatment many times, and she has to know that eventually this behavior is going to sever relationships with people who do not behave like she does.

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Yes to everything Quint said.
Actually, it is her drinking that runs the risk of people getting hurt and mad and not being your friend anymore, not your mentioning it to her.

If you flat out tell her "no, your drunken behavior will ruin my trip" it would definitely be the end of any friendship you have. Vegas is not the place for this woman to be. Given her history though, she probably doesn't have many friends.
Tell her you got a group rate, all the arrangements have been made, it's too late now, yadayadayada, tell her anything but telling her she's a risky drunk won't be of any help to either of you. She'll (hopefully) figure that out eventually and she has to be the one to figure that out.

Why thank you, Knotted and Lisa. I appreciate that. And, Lisa, you are right in pointing that out -- it's not the "telling her" it's the drinking that's ruining her life.

Zen, I've been around the block a time or two, and I find that lying is just not the answer in a situation like this. It would probably come back to bite her in the butt, as the friend may very well figure out that the good deal, no room at the inn story is not true. In the end, that just makes things worse.

Of course "no, your drunken behavior will ruin my trip," is ridiculous! There are much more thoughtful ways to handle it. Such as, "I love you, but you have been through counseling enough times to know that your drinking can be a problem. We are not going on this trip to party and get loaded. By the same token, we are not going on this trip to completely avoid alcohol. We are afraid of what may happen. Past experience has told us that it is a strong possibility."

Unfortunately, people like this don't usually figure it out entirely on their own. They usually need an event or an epiphany. This could be the event that turns her around. Or not. Time will tell.

Quint41, I think that's a wonderful way to handle it. I know there's honesty and there's honesty and you don't want to hurt her but still...Vegas would not be good. Those situations are so difficult and unfortunately genuine concern can be turned around to "you don't want me there" as opposed to you don't want the behavior and the behavior is destructive.

Since she knows she has problems, maybe this will be what she needs to continue on with therapy. Sometimes reality is the best wakeup call. And maybe you could offer to do something else with her; something less dangerous than the city of vice.

Hard and awkward though it may be, I think it is best to gently and kindly tell your friend the truth. Be kind but firm...no need to lecture. It will actually be doing your friend a favor in the long run.
If she gets mad at you then oh well, she needs more time to face her problem. She needs to be made aware that her problem has very real effects on her life and on others around her. Telling her in a kind but matter of fact manner is the best thing any friend could do for her. Sometimes friends need to be brave.

Thank you all for the wonderful advice. I am one of the four that organizing the trip, so unfortunately it's up to me and another girl who's also friends with her to tell her no. We had a long discussion today about how we're going to handle it. The truth is a really hard thing to say sometimes, and it's going to hurt her, but I think you are all right, it's just what has to be said. It can have two effects that I see. 1. She realizes she really has a problem and it motivates her to change. 2. It drives her further into misery and drinking. I'm seriously worried that the second one might happen.

I"ll discuss it more with the mutual friend, and then the two of us will have to send down with her, I guess. It's really hard, and I don't want to do it.

Thank you all for your advice, I think I knew what I had to do, just needed some reassurance.

CycleChic - has your friend sought treatment for depression? She sounds like me in my twenties. I used alcohol to self medicate, it was not pretty. Much like your friend, I got surly and mean.

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Originally Posted by CycleChic06

It can have two effects that I see. 1. She realizes she really has a problem and it motivates her to change. 2. It drives her further into misery and drinking. I'm seriously worried that the second one might happen.

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This situation is not serious enough to make her stop drinking. It will make her angry and she will, as Snap said, self-medicate.
For an alcoholic to stop drinking they usually do have to hit the proverbial "rock bottom". This just isn't hard enough to be rock bottom, it's just another low point for her.

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Originally Posted by CycleChic06

It can have two effects that I see. 1. She realizes she really has a problem and it motivates her to change. 2. It drives her further into misery and drinking. I'm seriously worried that the second one might happen.

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Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better. Zen sort of mentioned it. She's got to get pretty miserable before she's going to decide she had enough. (that rock bottom)
And you can't hold yourself responsible for HER reactions. She engages in extremely self-destructive behavior. That's not your fault. She's going to do it whether you invite her or not. Best have her home drinking than spoiling your party.

Please don't feel guilty, that feeds her behavior. Have fun.

Yes, please do not feel guilty. You did not cause her drinking, you cannot control it (by however you handle this situation...whether you say things "just right" or not), and you cannot cure it. You can best treat her with respect by telling her the truth with love.

And, enjoy your trip!

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Originally Posted by CycleChic06

. 1. She realizes she really has a problem and it motivates her to change. 2. It drives her further into misery and drinking. I'm seriously worried that the second one might happen.

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well, if #2 does happen - it's not your fault at all. Starfish's advice "You didn't cause it, You cant' control it, You can't cure it" is spot on. (the infamous 3 c's) You are not responsible for her choices, only yours. So you can choose to include her, or not include her. There's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to not include her. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking care of yourself by setting good boundaries.

If it makes her angry: so what, you don't have to take it on.
Ultimately, nothing you do or say will cause a person with a drinking problem to make different choices for themselves. The desire to change has to come from within. In the meantime, you might have to watch a friend self-destruct which could be difficult and painful. There are resources out there for friends and families of alcoholics.

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Originally Posted by zencentury

For an alcoholic to stop drinking they usually do have to hit the proverbial "rock bottom". This just isn't hard enough to be rock bottom, it's just another low point for her.

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You never know. "rock bottom" doesn't necessarily mean on the street, lost it all, looking for that last bit of cooking sherry.

Some put 2 + 2 together earlier.

But you don't do her any favors by delaying the inevitable and holding her up before the fall. And you, your friends and the rest of Vegas will be miserable if you take her on the trip and care of her.

How many alchoholics does it take to change a iightbulb?
One. But first the lightbulb has to want to change :rolleyes: :o

Others have said it already, but here's how I would put it.

She's going to drink heavily no matter what you do. If you tell her, she'll drink. If you let her come, she'll drink. Alcohol abusers will use any excuse--or none.

Anything other than absolute honesty is enabling her. Enforcing your boundaries is the only honorable way to behave in this situation.

I feel for you, though

Karen

Thanks again for all your advice and concern. She seems to go through cycles, she'll hit bottom, seek help, get better, then go off on her own again and start going down hill, hit botton, etc... I'm not an expert, but I agree that its probably caused by depression. She recently turned 30, lives alone and is just generally unhappy with herself. A few months ago after a recent break-up, she locked herself in her apartment for 4 days and went on a drinking binge, didn't go to work, wouldn't even get out of bed, wouldn't answer phone calls. She's a mess, and as a friend I'm at a loss of how to help her. I listen to her when she's upset and try to be there for her, but I don't know what else to do. I've discussed it with mutual friends and none of us know how to help her. Like you all said, she has got to want to help herself.

I think you are all right, honesty is best in this situation. The truth will hurt, but I hope in the end she'll understand it's for her own good.

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Originally Posted by CycleChic06

T I've discussed it with mutual friends and none of us know how to help her. Like you all said, she has got to want to help herself.

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the best way to help her is to help yourself by getting extremely educated about alcoholism, and by seeking support from others who have drinkers in their lives. You might look into al-anon, it's the sister 12 step program to AA that is specifically for friends and loved ones of alcoholics.

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/english.html

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

She's going to drink heavily no matter what you do. If you tell her, she'll drink. If you let her come, she'll drink. Alcohol abusers will use any excuse--or none.

Anything other than absolute honesty is enabling her. Enforcing your boundaries is the only honorable way to behave in this situation.

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This is all completely true.
As an alcoholic, she will drink until she stops drinking. Doesn't matter if you say anything or not, or if you listen to her woes and are supportive or not. If she were to get a raise at work, she'd drink to celebrate and get drunk. If she got fired, she'd drink to comfort herself and get drunk. You drink because you're happy, you drink because you're depressed. You drink because you're surrounded by friends and having a good time, you drink because you're alone and sad. You drink because you drink.
She needs to work through her problem and get help through other people who are working to stop drinking. Sympathetic listening by well meaning friends does not help her. AA might seem corny but it works for a lot of people. She needs to get help on her own as many times as she needs to. The only way she will ever be able to "control" her drinking is by living a life where she is not drinking at ALL. This concept often takes years for an alcoholic to come to grips with, and years of trial and error.
The best way to be her friend is to be honest with her.