How to choose -- any advice welcome!

Here's the background (one oft heard heard before here, I'm sure). I've been riding recreationally and for fitness on a Cannondale Hybrid for a few years and have decided to begin centuries with a new road bike. So, I'm new to road biking. I've decided on carbon fiber frame (for ride and longevity) and need WSD (size 47/48 bike).

Here's the question, I've looked at 3 bikes, Specialized Ruby, Trek 5000 WSD and the next step up, Trek Madone 5.0. There's a significant price jump from the first 2 to the last, and I'm just not sure what you really get for the price or if there are any ride differences, etc. I've read that the Madone is a stiffer and less forgiving ride, so maybe it's not a good choice for a beginner?

Any thoughts, advice would be very appreciated.

Thank you.

Carbon fiber and longevity - not phrases I put together. :D

Why are you looking at only "race" bikes? Their geometry will be very different from the hybrid you're currently riding.

V.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

Carbon fiber and longevity - not phrases I put together. :D

Why are you looking at only "race" bikes? Their geometry will be very different from the hybrid you're currently riding.

V.

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Ditto this. I'm in the process of selling bikes that have been "learning experiences." One of the things I have discovered is that I really like steel. I've not had a carbon bike, but I have ridden aluminum, and just wasn't comfortable on long rides because of the harshness of the ride. I would worry about riding a bike that was known to be harsh.

Another thing I have learned is that a racing geometry is not comfortable for me. I'm not happy with handlebars lower than the saddle.

As far as the difference - you're paying for components and frame. What you get with better components is lighter and (to a certain level) more durable. With frames, I would guess you're largely paying for weight once you're comparing carbon bikes.

Good luck and test ride lots!

Please don't discard aluminum so fast... A good AL frame with a carbon fork, perhaps even carbon rear triangle, and while you're at it a decent saddle with titanium rails, will be very comfy as well.

Try bikes.
Try bikes.
Try bikes.

I've done all 3: Good Aluminum Frame, Carbon Fork, and Terry Ti Butterfly. Didn't work for me. They must work for someone - there are plenty of them sold. Trying lots is most definitely the way to go!

Hi all -- Thank you for the quick responses! Sounds like I didn't give enuf info. ;-) I've tried both Specialized and Trek aluminum and honestly, the carbon was a much softer, more comfortable ride -- I did feel the difference. I did not feel as "jarred" by small pavement defects, dips, etc on the carbon fiber as I did even on the Specialized Alum with carbon fiber forks. I'm curious on the question of longevity though -- that definitely interests me. One of the reasons I was leaning to cf was that everything I've read suggests that the aluminum frames tend to begin breaking down and losing comfort relatively quickly where the cf maintains its feel and spring much longer. If you've had different experiences, that I would definitely be interested in hearing!

Again, thanks very much.

I ride steel, so I'm biased that way. I tested some CF frames when I decided to buy a new bike, but was concerned that the geometries wouldn't suit me over the long haul.

V.

I haven't noticed any of the aluminum bikes around me (including my own Raleigh) having any "breakdown" problems...

However, I have friends who have had problems with CARBON components.
A broken handlebar, a broken crank... These things rarely break when
they are aluminum. Bend, maybe.

If you are looking for comfort and not necessarily speed, you might want to try the Trek Pilot line. They put the rider a little more upright than most road bikes and they come in some nice carbon frame designs. My husband has the 2006 Trek Pilot 5.0 and loves it. He's ridden a number of centuries on it and while he's got old wrist injuries, this bike has kept him comforable even over some rough roads.

Now he's moved on to a steel bike and he loves it even more. The ride and feel is similar between his two bikes, but he loves how the steel feels more indestructable. He bought the carbon Trek figuring that it had enough of the new advances to last him a long time, but ended up falling in love with a 10 year old steel framed bike instead!

Imho it's like this

Steel: Very longlasting if it has been build 'old school' (read lugged) and comfortable. There are also steel frames which are build like alu frames are build (without lugs), they also have the comfort but lack the 'long lasting' factor. They only negative side to steel (compared to alu and carbon) is weight.

Alu: If not combined with carbon is stiff, not so comfortable and may suffer from microcracks early on in life. However the combination with carbon (front and rear) makes the bike more comfortable since the carbon acts as a cushion for the vibrations, the frame will last longer, downside it that you have glue edges where the carbon is fitted to the alu, this is a potential weakness. Another advantage is weight.

Carbon: As comfortable as steel since it absorbs the vibrations, strong, really light but may not be so long lasting as steel. It is weak in direction the carbonvibers is not woven in, so a crash with the bike could have severe consequences. I have seen a couple of girls who have carbon frames which actually broke in 2 during a crash in a group bike race. When you have such a crash there is allways someone falling or even riding over you frame, both times the frames broke. And carbon is also the most expensive alternative of the three.

My advice would be stick to steel (if you don't care about the weight) or alu with an alu rear-end but with a carbon fork (if you do want weight to count). And invest some extra money in good high-end components.

I love my carbon bike, but if you crash you can ruin carbon- it does not bend, it breaks. Of course you can ruin aluminum too, as once it bends it fatigues- you cannot bend it back or ride it without risking failure, though it is fairly hard to do. I certainly have heard about "wearing out" an aluminum frame *but* we're talking about 180lb guys racing on aluminum frames and putting huge amounts of stress on the frame.

If you are looking for durable and comfortable and money is not a big factor, why not try titanium? Ti frames are often very forgiving, soaking up road noise and bumps and also are very durable. Then there is always steel, some people swear by it for comfort and there are super light steel frames being made these days.

Do be aware that there are other factors than frame material that will affect how comfy a frame is, the geometry, how stiff the frame is, the tire pressure / width all are factors. My steel bike was no better than my alumimum one as far as soaking up bumps went. My ti bike really dampens everything, but another person I know said that the ti bike she raced for one season was so stiff that it transmitted every little bit of the road.

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Originally Posted by Takiana

Here's the background (one oft heard heard before here, I'm sure). I've been riding recreationally and for fitness on a Cannondale Hybrid for a few years and have decided to begin centuries with a new road bike. So, I'm new to road biking. I've decided on carbon fiber frame (for ride and longevity) and need WSD (size 47/48 bike).

Here's the question, I've looked at 3 bikes, Specialized Ruby, Trek 5000 WSD and the next step up, Trek Madone 5.0. There's a significant price jump from the first 2 to the last, and I'm just not sure what you really get for the price or if there are any ride differences, etc. I've read that the Madone is a stiffer and less forgiving ride, so maybe it's not a good choice for a beginner?

Any thoughts, advice would be very appreciated.

Thank you.

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Ok here is my two cents worth - I started out riding a Trek 5000 (not WSD) and love this bike. Its a very comfortable ride (for me) and I will be using it to do my first 200km ride next year. I know a lot of people dont like Carbon but you need to try lots of bikes and decide for yourself. If Carbon is still your favourite then I say go for it. :)

I absolutely agree. if you like the carbon, go with it.
At my company, we are making AIRPLANES out of the stuff.

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Originally Posted by Eden

If you are looking for durable and comfortable and money is not a big factor, why not try titanium? Ti frames are often very forgiving, soaking up road noise and bumps and also are very durable. Then there is always steel, some people swear by it for comfort and there are super light steel frames being made these days..

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Ti a good option too, with brands like Merlin and Litespeed.

I forgot to mention that, personally, I am also going for the carbon for my next bike. I never rode one but the people who drive (good) carbon bikes love them so I want to give it a go.

This thread makes me want to shop for bikes..... :rolleyes:

As Grog said - TRY the bikes. I rode a 600k brevet on an aluminum (scandium) Eddy Merckx Team SC (the old Lotto race frame). The only thing that really bugged me at the end (besides my BUTT :eek: ) was the bar height - I've remedied that issue with a proper fitting. I figure it is probably the only Merckx scandium bike that's done a brevet of that distance... But the ride was not harsh. This bike has done 6 double centuries and many rides over 100 miles.

Few folks have mentioned ti..... What I love about that (it's what my other bike is) is that it is indestructable. It is pricey, though.

I decided a while back that I am too clumsy for carbon. I have crashed in the past, and if I crashed and trashed a frame, I'd be very sad. It's probably not likely to happen.

Steel bikes are NOT heavier than aluminum bikes, since the tubes on aluminum bikes have to be fatter to get the frame strength the same. My Bianchi Eros Donna (steel) weighs about 21-22 pounds. My Specialized Sirrus (aluminum) weighed about 21-22 pounds. I LOVE the Eros Donna, by the way.

My 10 year old Waterford full steel and lugged weighs 21.5 lbs. And that's with the seatbag on it, too!

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Originally Posted by maillotpois

This thread makes me want to shop for bikes..... :rolleyes:
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yeah, me too. Imagine though, a bike shop full of bikes in your size!
wouldnt THAT be cool?
the last shop i went into did not HAVE a bike in my size...well, okay, they probably had a mountain bike i could have ridden..

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Originally Posted by salsabike

Steel bikes are NOT heavier than aluminum bikes

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Heavier can be relative, with heavier I mean a difference of 200-500 grams. Which in a world where every gram counts means enough.

For instance an alu/carbon frame of Stevens costs 999 euro with a weight of 1225 gram and the steel/carbon counterpart of 995 euro of Duell weighs 1900 grams.

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Originally Posted by salsabike

Steel bikes are NOT heavier than aluminum bikes, since the tubes on aluminum bikes have to be fatter to get the frame strength the same. My Bianchi Eros Donna (steel) weighs about 21-22 pounds. My Specialized Sirrus (aluminum) weighed about 21-22 pounds. I LOVE the Eros Donna, by the way.

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Glad someone came to the rescue of steel bikes. In looking for new bikes, many discard even looking at steel equating it with a "WalMart" bike. Good steel is likeweight, extremely durable, comfortable to ride and with a carbon fork is smooth. smooth, smooth. I've been riding a Lemond Zurich since 2002. It's a beautiful steel bike. I curse Trek for turning the Zurich into a carbon bike but Lemond has again come out with a steel bike and other manufacturers (such as Bianchi) have as well.

And a word on "racing" frames... not all racing bikes have agressive geometry, some - for instance the Trek Pilot, have a very relaxed geometry making it almost a touring bike. Things to watch for - the angle of the front fork. If almost straight up and down, the bike will be quick and "twitchy" more suited to fast club rides, crits etc. If the fork is angled forward, than the geometry is more relaxed and the bike is more suited towards long club rides, centuries, maybe even touring.

If you are used to a comfort bike, and sitting straight up in the saddle, it will take some getting use to the new geometry of a race style bike. Just give it time. Remember to stretch after each ride, work on flexibility. Personally I can't ride a comfort bike. That upright positionins is uncomfortable and scary to me but I'm just so used to being stretched out over the top bar.

I purchased a Pilot 2.1 two years ago after riding a hybrid for about 10 years. It has an aluminum frame and a carbon fork and seat post. I thought this bike was a comfortable ride and a good transistion from my hybrid. I figure if it wears out, it's time to buy a new one - good thing too as cool new bikes are coming out all the time. I really liked the Pilot that was all carbon but couldn't afford it. I think Trek warrantees their carbon frames for life but you should verify this with your LBS. Good luck on your decision.

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Originally Posted by Mimosa

Ti a good option too, with brands like Merlin and Litespeed.

I forgot to mention that, personally, I am also going for the carbon for my next bike. I never rode one but the people who drive (good) carbon bikes love them so I want to give it a go.

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If you decide to check out Ti have a look at these
http://lynskeyperformance.com/

These guys are the founders of Litespeed. Sold Litespeed in 99 and have started up Lynskey. I have major lust for one of these but I think it will be a cold day in hell before I can buy another pricey bike.:(

Dont forget to let us know what you decide on and pics please, we love oggling new bikes.:)

I have a lightspeed bella. I was very limited in my selection of a new road bike because I am only 4'10" :( . I love my titanium lightspeed. I had to also settle on 650 wheels because of my height. This will hopefully be my last bike, but at least I finally got one that fits me....I think it is a VERY comfortable bike.:p

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Originally Posted by salsabike

Steel bikes are NOT heavier than aluminum bikes, since the tubes on aluminum bikes have to be fatter to get the frame strength the same. My Bianchi Eros Donna (steel) weighs about 21-22 pounds. My Specialized Sirrus (aluminum) weighed about 21-22 pounds. I LOVE the Eros Donna, by the way.

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Hey Salsa: The reason that aluminum tubes are oversized is because the material is not as strong as steel so in order to make the bike strong enough laterally, etc., they oversize the tubes. This engineering makes the tube strong enough and enables the thickness of the aluminum in the tube to be less. Just because they look bigger, does not mean that they are heavier. In most cases, an aluminum bike is not heavier than a steel. I will not say that some steel bikes may be lighter than some aluminum bikes, but on general, steel is heavier. A lighter weight steel bike may be weaker due to the fact that they must decrease the thickness of the steel in the tube. For instance, the old Bridgestone Zip (mountain bike) which was touted to be one of the lightest steel mountain bikes of its time was a "one race season bike" because it would fatigue due to the thiness of the tubing and would not stand up to the stressors applied to it.

Anyway, back to the question: I like carbon very much. I like the feel of the ride. I like the way it makes climbing so much easier cause of the less weight, etc. I ride a Giant TCR with Dura Ace components and Mavic Cyrium (I can never remember how to spell that word) SSL wheels. It is a full on race bike, but I ride it for everything and it is very comfortable for me. I ride a small. They make an x-small too. My friend rides a Giant OCR more laid back geometry. This might be the better bike for you, but you should ride them and see what you like.

I rode a steel Bridgestone RB 1 for years and loved that bike as well. It had laid back touring geometry so it was very stable and forgiving. So, just go out and ride the bikes and see how you like them.

Don't forget about fit!!!

You'll find people who like and dislike every material.

I started out on a Trek 5000 3 seasons ago. It was the perfect bike to get me into road riding (far lighter than anything I'd ridden before), but now I know it isn't the dream bike for me.

The ride is very dampened- at first this feels so smooth and comfortable. Now it just feels dead by the end of a ride. In addition the geometry of the non-WSD Trek bikes is not right for me (top tube is too long and I couldn't adequatetely reach the drops). A professional fitting, shorter stem, and straight seatpost helped immensely, but I think it could still be better.

I'm in the process of buying a custom steel or ti bike. That said, if you're new to riding, you don't want to put the money into a custom bike since you don't really know what you want. There may be fewer stock steel bikes out there and titanium is pretty pricey.

Try out some different bikes and see what you like. Whatever you get, make sure it fits reasonably well.

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Originally Posted by anakiwa

Don't forget about fit!!!

You'll find people who like and dislike every material.

I started out on a Trek 5000 3 seasons ago. It was the perfect bike to get me into road riding (far lighter than anything I'd ridden before), but now I know it isn't the dream bike for me.

The ride is very dampened- at first this feels so smooth and comfortable. Now it just feels dead by the end of a ride. In addition the geometry of the non-WSD Trek bikes is not right for me (top tube is too long and I couldn't adequatetely reach the drops). A professional fitting, shorter stem, and straight seatpost helped immensely, but I think it could still be better.

I'm in the process of buying a custom steel or ti bike. That said, if you're new to riding, you don't want to put the money into a custom bike since you don't really know what you want. There may be fewer stock steel bikes out there and titanium is pretty pricey.

Try out some different bikes and see what you like. Whatever you get, make sure it fits reasonably well.

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Anakiwa is right fit is so important. LOL - Anakiwa that you should mention the top tube as mine is a little short. My new bike has a slightly longer top tube and even though my Trek is comfy I can tell the difference when I ride my new bike.:)