Stinking at singletrack...will it get better?

Sheesh, I just don't think I'm improving at all. I've been riding single track trails for a couple of months now (started mountain biking this summer), and I don't think I'm a bit better at it now than when I started. The trails I ride are rooty and have switchbacks. Downhill switchbacks are the worst! I can sometimes make the uphill ones even with the roots and sharp turns, but the downhill ones terrify me. I nearly always end up putting a foot down. And the steep, curvy descents....I get too scared and end up walking. I'm fine even with big roots when the trail is relatively level or lightly rolling, but when it gets steeper and the turns are sharp, I really struggle.

I ride behind my friend who has been at this for a few months longer than me, and she makes it look effortless. She doesn't do anything the mountain bike books say to do (she's never read one) re. weight shifting, inside knee up on inside of turns, leaning the bike into the turn and your body weight to the outside, or getting off the back of the saddle on descents. I'm doing all that and yet she puts me to shame as she just easily does the turns and descents I can't get. Her back wheel seems so stable, where I feel mine skittering and jumping around everywhere behind me.

A couple of differences that may or may not play into it. I ride a Titus Racer X (new to me but used - 2000 model). She rides a heavier, older Mongoose, that is a full-suspension, but has a coil spring rear shock that I am sure is not moving hardly at all since she only weighs 120, it's a men's bike, and it's not adjusted to the plushest setting, so I think her bike ends up being almost a hardtail. I never see her saddle move at all, where mine definitely does (air shock). Also, I suspect the geometry of her bike is different. She's tall so rides a larger frame, and hers is not a racing bike. I ride an XS frame size and the Titus is a racing bike, so I am sure my seat tube angle is steeper, thus the feeling that I am going to endo every time I decend. I do stick my butt way off the back of the saddle but still feel that way.

I fell again tonight. I was riding across a wood bridge near the end of our ride, it was getting quite dark, and the bridge was damp and covered with damp leaves from a heavy rain two days ago (trails just re-opened today at noon). My rear tire skidded, and I went down on the bridge. A fast guy was coming up behind me - so embarrassing! I'm not seriously hurt, just a few abrasions on my leg and elbow, but I just hated to fall there when I'd managed to nearly finish the trails without a fall!

How do I know when my rear tire needs replacing? The bike is used, so I have no idea how old the tires are. It still seems plenty knobby (it's an IRC Mythos XC 2.1"). One wonder I have is if it is still giving me plenty of traction, since I feel like I lose traction often, even when I follow the same lines my friend takes, and the bridge fall tonight did nothing to improve my confidence.

I know I've asked these kinds of questions here before after my first couple of single track rides (and a more painful fall a couple of months ago), but now that I've ridden the trails more, I guess I expected I'd see some improvement. Or are some people just not built for mountain biking? I'm almost thinking I should just go back to the road and leave the trails for people who can handle them. I'm not sure how much banging up this 45-year old body can take. :(

Thanks...
Emily

OK, first of all, leaves+bridge+wet=disaster. Period. yikes! Glad you're OK.

I'm not by any means an expert, but I've been more of a mtn biker than a road biker. I ride a middle of the road hardtail, a Kona Cinder Cone and have had my share of falls, including a broken bone. For the downhills, one of the things that is helpful, and you've probably already read this, but I'll say it anyway, is to look further ahead down the trail. Don't look at the next move your bike needs to make, but at least 2-3 moves or further ahead depending on the terrain. Your bike and brain really are connected and you'll get thru the downhill stuff better if you're not looking at the root you're going over. If you're looking at the root you're going over, you can't anticipate the next move you need to make. If a rider does that, they are in crisis management mode all the time [Oh sh%*, a rock. (goes over rock.) Oh sh#$, a root (goes over root)] instead of enjoying the flow of the ride (root, rock, root, trench, straightaway flying downhill). Switchbacks are tough anyway you plan it, but if I know I'm headed for a long tough descent (usually the case if there are switchbacks), I'll lower my seat another 1-2 cm (or more even sometimes depending on the grade), a total sacrilege for road biking, but a must for lowering my center of gravity for a big bumpy downhill. The lower, the more stable for descending. In the really steep stuff, my tushy is hanging totally off the back of my saddle, making NO contact whatsoever with the saddle. This shifts weight to the back wheel and helps prevent the a$$ over tea kettle scenario. Practice on some mod-steep stuff to get the feel. If you can't get your hiney off the end of your seat easily, your seat is too high. Mtn biking is soo different from road.

Anyway, it is a learning curve, but it's SOO FUN! I do love it, even when I still eat sh@#.....:D HTH.

I know what you are talking about emily. I really s*ck at mtb, you see someone else just pulling through some difficult part of the trail and I start to think "Oh is this safe? Can I do that? Would I make the hill with that root halfway" etc. With other words I think to much whereas that other person is just doing it without thinking. I really feel insecure when riding trails and that insecurity is the cause for not being able to improve.

That's why I stick to roads :D But there I have the problem that I also suck at wet roads since again I think to much about not falling. I don't think I'll ever learn. :rolleyes::o

Your race bike geometry will definitely affect how you feel going downhill. I had a racy type hardtail and always felt like I was about to pitch over the bars on steep descending no matter how far I got back (which turns out wasn't actually that far). When I got my Titus (Moto-Lite not Racer X) the slack head angle was very noticeable, I feel much more stable on steep descents now without having to go all the way back. I now have a non-racy hardtail now as well. I rode my racy hardtail for a few years, it just took more of a conscious effort at weight moving.

How far do you really shove your backside back? I used to think I was way back until I saw pictures of myself descending and I wasn't really as far back as I could go at all. Putting your saddle down, really down, will help this. Maybe someone could take a picture of you going down something steep so you can see your position on the bike and also where your eyes are looking i.e. is it down the trail (good) or at your front wheel (usually bad). Flow comes when you look well ahead and know whats coming, if you don't you get reactive and everythings a surprise (good preparation for night riding though).

As for Switchbacks, well... They're damn hard! I went on an MTB holiday to Spain in September with a company called "Switchbacks". There were loads of them, steep, massive rocks on them and precipitous drops off the edge if you got it wrong. :eek: We don't get that kind of thing in the UK. The way to ride them was to hang over the back wheel, keep a bit of momentum and look through the turn where you wanted to go, if you looked at the edge or any of the rocks/obstacles that's where your front wheel went. They also said to change your leading foot depending on which way the turn went - left in front for right turns and vice versa, I naturally lead with my right foot and found left turns ok, right turns were more difficult as I couldn't get my balance with the "wrong" foot in front. I'm going back next year to have another go! :D

I really recommend trying descending by putting your saddle way down, it'll feel weird at first cause you can't grab it between your thighs really but the difference in control of the bike is immense! You will find it gives your quads a good workout though. Once you do that for a bit you'll naturally move further back off the saddle without having to put it down so much.

As for tyres, they are a personal choice, I've had tyres that I've thought are positively lethal on wet rocks/roots that other people think stick like glue! Don't be afraid to change them, maybe have a look at what other people are riding to get an idea what is used on your trails?

Keep at it, I find my progress on a bike is not linear, it tends to go in jumps, then plateaus again.

I've only been riding for a couple of months too and almost every fall I've had has been on a downhill switchback. I managed to stay clipped in on them last Saturday, but was going sooooo slow. I ride a cheapo Raleigh hardtail that probably weighs more than your full suspension. I hate being scared going downhill because that is supposed to be the most fun! My husband told me it was ok if my rear tire skid some on those switchbacks, to just go with the flow (he is new too, but he hasn't crashed on a downhill switchback yet). I so know that feeling of thinking you might just make it without going down and then you do. I was coming up on a guy on the trail the other day and my nose was running like crazy from an allergy pill I had taken. I didn't want to be seen with snot so I tried to wipe and clear out of his way at the same time. Not a good idea! I went down on a fallen tree. I was mad because I get bruises every time I fall, even if it doesn't really hurt and because I did it in front of someone. I am pretty sure I saw him laughing in the distance, but he managed to put on a straight face to ask me if I was ok :-). I know my post didn't help, but I just wanted to let you know that I am right there with you!

There's definately some good advice given everyone else... I have to agree with a lot of the comments made!! Putting the seat down just in general, particularly when you are riding single track makes a big difference. Not only does it lower your centre of gravity, but it also allows you to move alot more freely around your bike. Give it a go, and you will immediately notice the difference (at least I did!!).

In terms of your descents - lower your seat, and go for a ride around the park on the flat. Ride at a fairly steady pace (not too fast) and see how far forward, and how far backwards you can get (obviously without having a crash!!). If you're having trouble with your descents, it may be because you're just not putting your weight far enough back (hence feeling as though you're going to endo!). Once you put the seat down you should be able to put your whole body above the rear wheel... Give it a go in the park and get used to how far back you can go... Then give it a go on the trail.

Hope this helps! :)

I rode mountain bikes for a long time and never thought I would get better. I was a real dweeb when I started and this lasted for a long time! On the other hand, some people take to it likes ducks to water! I think it has to do with your risk taking levels, your prior athletic endeavors and guts!

Some of us have em and some of us don't - I'm still not a great technical rider, but I'm competent now and have much more confidence. For some of us, it takes building that confidence and it may take a year or so. Once you learn you can do it, then you can! So, be patient. It will come to you. Over my mountain biking career, I have had what I call ah ha moments. What I mean by that is all of the sudden I ride something and go oh, that's what I need to do and then it is easy after that!

So, don't worry, keep working on it and try to relax! The bike handling will come, the ah ha moments will come and you WILL GET BETTER!

Emily---I don't do any mt. biking (yet). However, from my own experience at initially being fearful during ascents on pavement, as you get more experience off road, you will be more confident. I'm amazed at how I can now bomb down hills that used to have me riding my brakes.

I'm still a newbie, so I feel your pain. I really do. Pretty often, actually. But you will absolutely get better.

The best advice that I've gotten, and I have to repeat it to myself pretty often, is as Tali suggests ... scan the trail ahead. It's easy to focus on a spot, and then not be prepared to handle the spot immediately after. When I find myself not riding smart, this is usually what I'm forgetting.

The next best help I got this season was getting behind the saddle. I ride a hardtail, bars near saddle height. I took a weekend women's riding class locally. Day two was riding a fairly short trail, and hitting each of the 'obstacles' over and over again. It took somebody watching me to tell me that what I thought was 'down and back', really wasn't down and back enough. This helped me a bunch with the downhill switchbacks. I ride XC, and don't really have the patience to deal with moving the seat up or down every time the grade changes, but I would expect experimenting with moving the seat down would probably make you feel more confident on the downhills.

I ride the same trails pretty often too. Mostly due to limited time to ride, but there's an up-side to that too. Each time I ride a familiar section of trail I try to do one thing better than the last time. Mini goals. I hadn't ridden 'ladders' before, and it took me riding a particular trail three times this summer before I was able to ride a couple of the more intimidating ones. (and they're still nothing to brag about).

And when you're riding with people, don't let yourself feel rushed by the speed of the group you're riding with. Take a minute to go back over a particular section until you get it.

Don't let yourself get frustrated, which would totally defeat the fun of being out there riding. It takes time to get good at anything, mountain biking isn't an exception.

Switchbacks are hard and like Tatie said look where you want to go. This means look to the inside of the turn. If you look to the outside it's like omigosh I'm gonna go off the edge (at least where I ride there's no trees to stop you from crashing down the mountain. Looking to the inside really helps me. Also I take tight downhill switchbacks very slowly, I brake into them and then release the brake about midway. We have some banked downhill switchbacks that are awesome to fly around but most are too tight for that (and I'm not one to bunny hop my back wheel around like a maniac!)

Here's a typical switchback on the trails I ride. Coming up you need to pedal pedal pedal and coming down...go slow!

Thanks for ALL the replies, ladies. Such helpful information!

First of all, lowering the seat. How?? I mean, yes, I know how here in the garage, but we're talking hex wrench on the trail? Please tell me that's not the way you're doing it. Should I lower it just for the downhills or for an entire trail ride (rolling)? I can't see stopping to lower it for every descent since I am riding with a friend. I guess I need to mark the current height somehow so I can put it back up to a normal height when I want it higher.

I am trying to push my butt all the way off the back of my saddle but probably not as far as I could go if my saddle were lower. Why, though, doesn't my friend need to do that? She doesn't even push her butt 1" back! I don't think she even knows about doing that. Perhaps she's just a lot more stretched out on her bike already so that her weight is already further back...that's all I can think. My bike is definitely not too small, though; I guess it must be the geometry. She doesn't *look* that stretched out, but she doesn't endo.

FBG, that picture gives me the HEEBIE JEEBIES! :eek: I could feel my heart beat faster just looking at it. I bow down in admiration of you doing that as I don't think I could ever go down that! Up, perhaps, but not down. Fortunately, where I ride is in the woods, and I would never go off the side of a mountain; these switchbacks are not quite that steep, and there are plenty of trees to catch me (another scary thing is fearing hitting them).

Being realistic, I know I have improved somewhat, because like ima_bleeder says, I have set "mini goals" on different parts of the trail, and I have made some turns that I couldn't get the first couple of times, but there are still so many places I just can't do -- or I'm just too scared to even attempt so end up walking. I hate being a wimp, but I am. And I hate roots!!! The trails I ride are very light on rocks, but the roots are something else.

I'll keep plugging away....I'm too stubborn not to. I really appreciate all the "me toos" and suggestions. Y'all are the greatest. :)

Emily

OMG! that switchback is SCARY looking! we don't have anything like that here in the desert! i need to expand my horizons in mtb-ing!!!

emily.... keep on "truckin" (ok.... keep on cycling! :cool: ) and you'll be an expert in no time!!!!

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

First of all, lowering the seat. How?? I mean, yes, I know how here in the garage, but we're talking hex wrench on the trail? Please tell me that's not the way you're doing it. Should I lower it just for the downhills or for an entire trail ride (rolling)? I can't see stopping to lower it for every descent since I am riding with a friend. I guess I need to mark the current height somehow so I can put it back up to a normal height when I want it higher.

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Most MTBs have a quick-release seat collar just so you can get the saddle up and down easily on the trails. I guess yours doesn't.

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Originally Posted by DirtDiva

Most MTBs have a quick-release seat collar just so you can get the saddle up and down easily on the trails. I guess yours doesn't.

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Wow really - I dont have one of those on my Juliana either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

I hate being a wimp, but I am. And I hate roots!!! The trails I ride are very light on rocks, but the roots are something else.

I'll keep plugging away....I'm too stubborn not to. I really appreciate all the "me toos" and suggestions. Y'all are the greatest. :)

Emily

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Hey Emily - I hate roots too. My problem is I fall off going up all the time with those stinky roots. Going down I love but up not so much. LOL we should get together you could ride up the hill and then I could ride down it. :D

It may not seem like you are improving but Im sure you are so keep at it and let us know how you get on:)

All good suggestions from everyone! I'm constantly adjusting my seat up and down and don't even snap that some people don't have a quick release on the seat! I have my seat post marked to the spot that I prefer to have it when I go downhill, makes it quick and easy to find the right spot.

Also, play around with your tire pressure. I prefer to run my tire pressure a little lower than most, but it really helps me with stability and in case anyone is wondering, no I do not get a lot of pinch flats.

And remember, everyone's body geometry/bike geometry is different, so your friend might not have to adjust her body as much as you because of her bike/body relationship. Also personally have noticed a difference between steel vs. aluminum bikes, and how I use my body with the different material. I love steel! Believe me, I've seen it.

I'm so glad you are really enjoying mountain biking and just keep practising!:D

Caligirl if you ever come up to Ventura County we'll take you on a great ride! Believe me I don't always make those switches! Last week I did a kinda sideways back-o going up one of these but thankfully landed on my feet.

When I had my hardtail I had a quick-release seatpost and would put the seat lower for descending, but on my new bike it's an allen wrench collar so I don't move it at all. Either way it's somewhat of a hassle. Plus, I have heard it said that if you are running a carbon seatpost you should not use a quick release collar, or adjust up and down constantly, it's hard on the carbon and you can damage it by over-tightening.

Emily you might just try bringing your seat down a smidge and leaving it there. I know you're a roadie and probably have it up pretty high. I set mine so when my heel is on the pedal at the 6:00 position there is a very slight bend at the knee.

PS: In the last six months my awesome riding buddy has only crashed once-- and that was on a slimy root coming out of a creek bed!

Hmmm...quick release seatpost. I don't have that. Maybe something to look into for next season. Right now things are winding down because daylight savings time is nearly over, which means no more weekday rides after work starting the week after next. And I won't be riding that much on weekends b/c the trails I ride with my friend from work are a long way from where I live, and my DH doesn't like MTB (imagine!) So, we'll probably mostly be hiking this winter as we're hoping to get into backpacking/camping next year. And I'll be riding a road bike on the trainer very soon now, and running on the treadmill at the gym at work and on trails on our property, so lots of cross training until daylight savings time starts again next spring!

I do run my tire pressure low (thanks to some earlier tips when I had such problems on my first ride on these same trails) and I think my saddle is a smidge lower than on my road bikes, but probably not as low as I should descend with) -- just don't want to hurt my knees by keeping it too low for a whole ride, so the QR sounds helpful. There are only two really steep descents (to me anyway, might not faze the more experienced dirt girls here!) that I could maybe lower it for without having to be up and down the entire trail.

Emily

FBG..... that would be fun!!!! the more i ride my mtb..... the more i like it.... but i'm still kind of a scaredy-cat!

emily.... i have a quick release seat too! when i ride in the desert here.... my seat is up and down... up and down :rolleyes: like a roller coaster or window! lol! cuz, for me, going down the rocky hills is less scary when i'm lower!

p.s... FBG.... YOUR design is still my dream mountain bike! i talk about wanting that pink mtb ALL the time!

Hey Emily -

Take heart - it sounds like you have a similar attitude as I have had (and had to adjust)....."Sheesh, I have been riding a mountain bike for X months and I should be more of an expert by now." I think that I would get frustrated because I was riding with people who made it look so easy and I felt like I was barely making it! Especially if they started riding around the same time or a little earlier. I just had to realize that there was a lot to learn and some people have things in their background that help them to pick it up quicker.....Don't get discouraged, as it will get better. Doing things like checking your seat, air pressure, learning little tricks like getting back....everyone is different! The other thing that I have started doing (this is the end of my second year on a mtn bike) is that I have set up a little obstacle track in my yard....things to practice on. It helps me figure out where I need to be on my bike when confronted with a rock, a root, a downhill, a tight corner, instead of looking at someone else. And just as I have come to love hills on my road bike, I have come to love roots on my mountain bike.....if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger! :D

I have to laugh because I am in the same boat as a beginner at mountain biking. I have been riding road for several years and have done some pretty tough century rides (Solvang and Tahoe). Mountain biking is a whole different experience. I stand at the top of a rocky downhill and have to talk myself into the saddle. Then talk to myself all the way down "just let the bike roll ... don't brake ... put your butt back over the saddle...just be calm ..." I have a great bike (WSD Trek Fuel EX 9), so I have no excuses! It is fun to take on a new challenge and I applaud all of us who are doing it and am in awe of everyone else who can tear down hills with utter fearlessness!

So what part of Socal are you from? And how do you like that Trek Fuel?? I am waiting for mine still.

I'm in Irvine, so have ridden Peters Canyon a couple of times, Aliso Woods and Fullerton Loop. The last one should have been the first ride ... great for a beginner. I love my Fuel! Can't blame my downhill trepidation on the bike! If I could be as good a rider as the bike is a bike, I'd be singing! :D

Well I won't be giving any advice on switchbacks.

As far as quick release seat clamps go they are fairly cheap & very easy to install yourself. Just make sure you get the correct size (depends on your bike but it's to fit the seat tube so won't be the same size as your seatpost).
Basically you remove the seatpost, take the old clamp off and slide the new qr one on. That's about as hard as it gets.
My bike came with a bolt on clamp & I purchased a qr one, but as I haven't needed to adjust the seat much for my rides I've put the bolt on one back on, still have the qr sitting there as a spare in case I want to pur it back on again. It cost me about $15 Australian.

Of course if you go get a Salsa one or something it will cost alot more!