A "Wheel" Compromise

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10-05-2006, 01:05 PM
cherinyc

A "Wheel" Compromise

hello TE girls!!

I bought my first road bike end of June 2006, so she's still pretty new. A GIANT OCR 1 WSD - which I love. Having gone from no bike to a bike was costly enough, and although I was learning the value of the higher end components, bikes, etc...there was no way I could spend more than I did on my bike (~$1300 USD) especially with my current bills. That price was actually WAAAY more than I could afford, but I consider it an investment (like my education was, though still waiting for it to start paying me back :rolleyes: )

Anyway, the LBS guy (who is the owner) did not pressure me into getting a more expensive bike or anything. He was good about just explaining things to me. Even warned me NOT to test ride the bike that was 2 steps up (price and model-wise) b/c he said it would be hard for me to give it back.

I have kept up with this LBS since buying my bike, and have had various adjustments, saddle changes, etc - and purchased clothing, supplies, etc. The last time I was there, about 2 weeks ago, he asked if I would like to try out a wheelset - just a demo set that was his - because he said I would really see the difference. My BF and I had already talked about how going from a 25 to a 23 sz wheel would cut the road friction down for me - and make me faster, so I said sure, I'll try them (and give them back).
Apparently (and noticeably) these wheels weigh 4lbs less than mine. They are Topolino Revelation AC29's (and cost ~$1000). I did a 72 mi ride this past Saturday and I climbed faster than my BF - which was AMAZING. I was averaging about 19.5 mph on the flats without problem.

My dilemma? I have to give the wheels back. I can't afford them. I have to stick with my old (but still new) wheels, but I am afraid I am going to feel like a snail when I put them back on my bike....is there a way to soooop up my current wheels? remove spokes or something? UGGGGHHH!

Did I get swindled because my LBS guy knew the impact these wheels would have?
BF feels for me, but agrees...I must return the wheels. :( :(
10-05-2006, 01:12 PM
Fredwina

You could put new tires on it. If you've got 25's, you should be able to Fit 23's w/o too much Hassle.
10-05-2006, 01:18 PM
SouthernBelle

Well, ultimately it is his job to sell you stuff, :p .

But with winter a-coming, you can do a little wheel research for next spring and possibly find something less expensive. Or there are people who build wheels. & that can be cheaper too. Make a note of what these wheels are made of and how they are constructed for future reference and count it a learning experience.

HTH,
10-05-2006, 01:31 PM
DebW

What are the rims, hubs, and spoke count of your current wheels? You can't reduce the spoke count, but you can have them rebuilt with lighter rims. It's the rolling weight on the rim that makes the most difference. So tire and tube weight also figure in, as well as rim weight. Or compare the weight of these wheels with other available wheels in your price range.
10-05-2006, 01:32 PM
cherinyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernBelle

Or there are people who build wheels. & that can be cheaper too. Make a note of what these wheels are made of and how they are constructed for future reference and count it a learning experience.
HTH,

good point. i don't really care what brand they are, just the performance.
10-05-2006, 01:36 PM
cherinyc

Don't really know what most of this means, but here are the stats of my own wheels:

rims: Formula Xero XSR-3 20/24H paired spoke
hubs: Alloy 20/24H,QR
tires: Michelin Dynamic, 700x 25c
spokes: Stainless Steel, 14G

Any obvious places to make changes?
10-05-2006, 01:38 PM
Geonz

Be glad you could enjoy that 72 mile FUN!!!!

Sorta like riding a rocket ship... who can afford to own one?
10-05-2006, 01:50 PM
SouthernBelle

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebW

What are the rims, hubs, and spoke count of your current wheels? You can't reduce the spoke count, but you can have them rebuilt with lighter rims. It's the rolling weight on the rim that makes the most difference. So tire and tube weight also figure in, as well as rim weight. Or compare the weight of these wheels with other available wheels in your price range.

Deb, that leads me to a Q about the different spoke configurations you see now. Can't say I've ever counted, but for example on my new Giant it's got the conformation that at least looks like a lower #. Am I correct? What's the deal?
10-05-2006, 01:52 PM
SouthernBelle

Cheri, just noted your wheels are xeros. Your bike is a Giant as is mine When I read reviews of Giants, the only real criticism I read was of the wheelsets.
10-05-2006, 01:54 PM
cherinyc

hi belle - yes it is a GIANT, and I think you're right. Only complaint being the wheels. Do you use 25's or 23's?
I think I will just upgrade my tire size for now - to the skinner tire.
Anyone got any suggestions for tires?
10-05-2006, 01:54 PM
mimitabby

Cheri
this might not be the best time of year to be getting smaller tires. all the bikers i know get BIGGER tires for the winter, for wet traction. if you don't plan on ever riding on wet roads with soggy leaves on them and stuff, ignore this message.
Now come spring, it's a different story of course.
M
10-05-2006, 02:11 PM
SouthernBelle

I think it came with 25s, but if you hadn't asked me I could have told you for sure. I rode with a guy who builds wheels this past Saturday and asked him how my wheels could be expected to hold up based on what I had read. He said if I were a bigger person, maybe through spring, but at my size (125-130) they would probably hold up for a couple of seasons of road.

Mimi made a good suggestion though on the weather.

Have you got them aired up to the max too? It's surprising what a little tire squashiness can do to a ride. Makes it feel muddy.

I'm holding off on any changes on my ride until spring. Then I'll invest in some good skinny slicks, among a couple of other things. But as the days here are getting short, it's getting harder to get in a weekday ride. Even with my blinky light on the back.

OH, didn't you also say you are moving? I'd delay any big change til then. Even if you do decide to go with new wheels, you want to keep the xeros as backups, and you don't want to have to move them.
10-05-2006, 02:39 PM
DebW

Cheri, I'm having trouble figuring how your current wheels can be 4 lbs heavier. That's quite alot. I can't find any info on your hubs or rims - not parts for sale through the usual channels. Guess that's where Giant cut corners to keep the price down. Easily upgradable though. Using 20/24H paired spokes makes the wheels look light when they aren't. Just a marketing ploy. And if you ever break a spoke on a wheel like that, you can't possibly make it rideable enough to get home on. You're better off with a good quality rim (like Mavic) and 28-32 evenly spaced steel spokes with a 2 or 3 cross pattern. Maybe you can try out some different wheel in the next few months (just borrow wheels off friends) and compare the feel and weight of super-expensive and moderately-priced wheels (like Mavic Open Pro rims, Shimano 105 or Ultegra hubs).
10-05-2006, 03:11 PM
SadieKate

Whoo boy. You found out my secret. Santa brought me some C19s 2 years ago. Yummy! http://www.topolinotech.com/

However, Deb's advice is right on. Open Pro rims paired with a good quality hub handbuilt will give you decent weight and performance for a lot less money. And, the repair factor is better. I'm considering a set of handbuilt wheels for the bike that I seem to go exploring on the most -- as in out in the boondocks where the rescue factor is pretty nil. That way, if something happens, I have a better chance of rigging a fix and getting home. Not to mention, sometimes bladed spokes on big descents with cross winds drive me bonkers.

4 lbs sounds a little much. Some of what you may have felt in the performance was a better quality hub. Less friction in the system. Better quality bearings will maintain speed better. Lets you keep coasting faster on the downhills. I wouldn't rebuild your current wheels. Save your pennies and get a nice set of handbuilts with light spokes. You'll be surprised at the better cost.
10-05-2006, 05:43 PM
SouthernBelle

We do have the same wheelsets, though I have a slightly different bike, the OCR C3. I knew about the complaints with the wheels ahead of time, but at this point I'm glad I haven't tried another set yet. ;) I don't need to further abuse my credit card right now.

I knew various components will have to be replaced periodically. I'll just figure on it being wheels first!
10-06-2006, 12:52 PM
SR500

Hi again, my husband bought these Titan wheels from Performance for my bike this Spring. Saved about 1.5+ lbs from the stock wheels. They are about the best value in a wheel have a lower weight, aero - low spoke wheel, and very low price. With today's sale at Performance they are like $110 for the pair + $20 ish shipping. You won't find a better wheel for the money and it might be a nice improvement over your stock wheels. They are black with black spokes, but it makes my Cannondale look mean in a good way.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...TOKEN=51017377

Here is a before and after pic:

Old Wheels:

http://www.weberwoodworking.com/bike...dalesr500a.jpg

New Titan Wheels:

http://www.weberwoodworking.com/bikes/Kimssr500.jpg
10-06-2006, 01:42 PM
cherinyc

do wheel sets come with tires?
10-06-2006, 01:43 PM
SouthernBelle

That's what I like about the black wheels on my black Giant. I look so wicked.
10-06-2006, 01:47 PM
cherinyc

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernBelle

That's what I like about the black wheels on my black Giant. I look so wicked.

I know - my wheels actually have pink on them (ok, pink is not mean, I admit) but they match my silver and pink bike.
Here is a stock photo:
Attachment 1723
10-06-2006, 01:50 PM
DebW

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherinyc

do wheel sets come with tires?

No_
10-06-2006, 01:54 PM
Triskeliongirl

I have a hard time believing the wheels could be 4 lb lighter. Are you sure about that? For comparison, what average speed do you think you would have done that same route at with your old wheelsset? I recommend schwalbe stelvio 23 tires, that go up to 140 psi, and are a good compromise between low weight and flat resistance. you can get them for a good price at bike tires direct, and they do come in assorted pretty colors. Wheels and tires are sold separately. A rim will accept a moderately wide range of tire sizes. I run tires from 23-32 on the same rims as my riding conditions demand.
10-06-2006, 01:58 PM
cherinyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherinyc

do wheel sets come with tires?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebW

No_

stupid question, right? I guess car tires don't come w/ new rims, duh...
sorry, NB mistake.
10-06-2006, 02:12 PM
cherinyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

I have a hard time believing the wheels could be 4 lb lighter. Are you sure about that?

Since this question was raised previously, I asked my BF, and he said, "no cheri - the LBS guy was exagerating"
Oh. Sorry for misleading everyone. See, he just took the bike behind the curtain - and it came back out with the new wheels. I haven't become familiar enough with the bike to really become intimate with the weights of the individual components. AND I am admittedly naive, so...

Anyway, I finally found my wheels
http://www.xerowheel.com/prod_detail...&id2=19&pid=20

and the pair weighs 2040g (w/o the tire
vs the Topolino's I am demo-ing w/ a weight of 1490

a 550g difference which is ....(trying to convert....calculating...)
1.21 pounds? that's it?:eek: maybe it was all in my head?

hmmm.
10-06-2006, 05:23 PM
DebW

Cheri, take each wheel off the bike and feel its weight separately. Spin the wheel in your hands and see if the hub feels smooth and how long it keeps rotating. After you get your own wheels back do the same with them. That will give you a comparison feel for the wheels. BTW, your old wheels have cup and cone serviceable bearings, so if they don't rotate as well as you'd like or feel dry or gritty, they can be regreased and adjusted.
10-06-2006, 05:37 PM
SadieKate

Also, when you're comparing weights be sure you are comparing both sets of wheels with or without the quick releases. Weight weenies even check the weights without the rim tape (and, of course, computer magnets).

Doesn't TE have the Schwalbe tires in pink?
10-06-2006, 06:05 PM
DebW

But she's probably not going to remove the cassettes, and they are probably different too.
10-06-2006, 08:20 PM
SadieKate

Well, she could get really geeky and at least clean off the grease before weighing them. :p