Osama Bin Laden: dead

I'm sure there are many mixed emotions, and while I might not have reacted the way they did (the celebrating/dancing/rejoicing), I can understand the high level of emotions associated with those most intimately involved.

It's not on the same scale, but I live in OKC and went through the trauma of the Murrah Federal Building bombing in 1995. When Tim McVeigh was put to death the city felt a certain sense of finalization. We didn't rejoice publicly, but you could tell there was a sense of "it's finally over."

I don't think this is over (with the terrorists), but I can understand how those affected most intimately by bin Laden feel happiness and relief at his death.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Bloom

I do not regret his death, this is an outcome of war...I simply will not celebrate it. Gladness over a victory in battle is fair, but celebration is reserved for the end of the war.

“I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” Martin Luther King, Jr

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That sums it up perfectly. A very appropriate quotation.

There is something going on at the fire house nearest WTC tonight -- FDNY in dress uniforms and the bagpipers in formal procession. So many tourists I got off my bike and walked. Perhaps it is an event that just happened to be today.

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Originally Posted by Grog

Thank you for writing this. I am concerned that such celebrations can only fuel more hate. I can certainly understand that many will feel a sense of relief, but for me this spells uncertainty and factions competing for leadership, not an happily-ever-after ending.

May we all live in peace.

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I need a "like" button for these statements.

If anyone is interested in local WTC reaction, our neighborhood newspaper did a good job. There is nothing profound or surprising.

You will notice mention of people who are still suffering and dying from exposure to dust/toxins while working at the site; I don't know how well that story is getting out, but we are very aware of it locally.

It turns out that quote I posted was misattributed, but for me the sentiment is the same.

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/t...te_osama_death

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Originally Posted by PamNY

If anyone is interested in local WTC reaction, our neighborhood newspaper did a good job. There is nothing profound or surprising.

You will notice mention of people who are still suffering and dying from exposure to dust/toxins while working at the site; I don't know how well that story is getting out, but we are very aware of it locally.

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Thank you for posting that link, it was very moving to read first hand stories from those who were impacted the most. No matter that the rest of the USA and others worldwide grieved over this, it's the people of NY who took it in the chops that day in a way that others just cannot comprehend.

I'm glad I'm not the only one surprised he wasn't captured for interrogation, trial, and moreover so the world could get a look at the man in custody and see him charged with his crimes against humanity as Saddam was and then shot, boiled alive, hung by his toenails or fed to rabid hamsters.

Saddam was found in a spider hole, haggard and used-up. Bin Laden? The report given says that he appeared well fed in a $1mil villa rather close to Pakistan's version of West Point. The guy was supposedly having weekly dialysis for renal failure But I guess if no autopsy was done we'll never know if that was true. He wasn't exceedingly mobile, and this after rumors went around that as of 2009 he was likely dead for 7 years post renal collapse. See here

The attack- Navy SEALs bust into the compound the US knew about since last August and not only head shoot him, but also kill everyone else in the room, though there are no US casualties, and then the body is rapidly disposed of at sea before the American public even knows the guy is dead. I would have thought they'd keep his body for autopsy or maybe to tick his head on a pike?

So really when it comes down to it is "He's gone, halleleuja, we did it, no you can't see the body, and there are no surviving witnesses but our men, but we're telling you it's true."

Maybe I'm still shell shocked after the Bush presidency, but doesn't any of that seem just a little fishy to anyone?

Just posting as an alternative way to think on this. I don't know that this will change anything because the man has gotten exactly what would be the best-case senario for his death- a violent slaying at the hands of the devil Americans. What better cause for his people to rally around?

I know revenge is a dish best served cold, and the people most affected by 9/11 may feel some peace, but this is not over. Our family members, husbands, brothers, and friends will still be deployed to the middle east to 'keep the peace'... whatever that means these days.

This is a good blog post from a man who until recently was a personal tech columnist for the Washinton Post.

http://robpegoraro.com/2011/05/03/911-to-51/

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Originally Posted by Crankin

I feel pretty proud of the work my son does right now.

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You should be proud. Let us know if he ever needs care packages.

Living through 9/11 gave me new appreciation for what military people must go through when they return to normal life after going to war. What I went through was a minuscule fraction of what they endure, but I have learned that some of it stays with you forever.

I am not a flag saluting yahoo, but I hate to tell you that the citizens of any country, I mean democratic country, do not know everything the government is doing. I don't mean this in a bad way, but there is always going to be intelligence/counter-intelligence and things going on that even some in the government don't know about. It is their job to do this. It is a little hard for me to believe that some are doubting that bin Laden is really dead. I believe they have DNA evidence, but don't quote me on that. But this doubting reminds me a little bit of the "birthers." I think it's good to question, but something just doesn't sit well with me. Like I said, earlier, there is evil in the world.
Yes, people will still be going off to war. Some people actually want to join the military and they are well aware of what could happen. I know that everyone here is supportive of the people in the military, but if I've learned anything from my experience with my son, it's that the military is a career choice for some and for others it's a lifeline compared to where they came from. It is very hard for others to understand that. Like anything else, we only hear about the bad things.
Pam, no care packages are needed. Scott will back in San Diego on May 10. He's married, so he gets his homecoming with his wife and then we are going out there on the 25th. He has not wanted for anything during his deployments; we had regular satellite phone communication and email this time. When he was in Iraq, he had Skype. The only thing he ever asked for were ice pops for his men in July (you know those horrid sugary things in plastic, that you can freeze), and more Smart Wool socks for himself this winter. So, the wool weenie thread had an influence! He and his wife seem absolutely normal and able to handle the stress of 7 months of separation. Of course, she was a Marine, too. I don't see any signs of PTSD in him, and any weirdness he has, was there before he was deployed or even in the military! He is smart, kind and tough as nails at the same time. The things that made him a good bike racer are the same things that have helped him in the Marines.

I don't watch tv. I heard about it from my Mom on the phone yesterday as I was heading into work early. She said we had some military guys show up in helicopters, go in and shoot him in the head and then threw him in the ocean. I actually argued with my Mom the whole way to work. They threw him in the ocean???!! I told her that just wouldn't be true at all. She told me Obama himself made the announcement and that the details were still being released by the WH. I told her that if they did indeed do that, court marshals would be forthcoming and all hell would break loose at the top. She said the order came from the top. I said that if we did it that way, we have just made bin Laden the martyr he always wanted to be. That's not a good thing. :(

I eventually got a chance to go online during a break, look a few things up and lo and behold, that's what we did alright. Well, color me shocked. It's the absolute last thing I thought we would do in this situation. I'm actually ashamed of us a bit. I have no problem with going in there, trying to get him, having to kill him if necessary but then dumping him in the ocean? WTF is that all about? Who exactly thought that could be a good idea? I heard the explanations and I tell you this, had this happened to our VP or Pres, we would have gone off the deep end. It's just wrong, people. We don't operate like that here. At least, I had hoped we didn't. I heard their explanations on why they did it and I'm still not okay with it. I was full of mixed feelings last night. I got home from work at midnight and sat up till 4 am reading, trying to comprehend, watching videos of US citizens dancing in the streets. When did we become that which we hate so much in others?

How did these "bad guys" get to have so much power in the first place that we ended up in this situation anyway? Oh wait...

I hope this goes in a positive direction. We can help facilitate that across the globe by how we react and how we go forth... what we chose as our lesson and future.

Jon Stewart sums it up so well for me...

"I am way too close to this whole episode to be rational about this in any way, shape or form," he said. "Last night was a good night, for me, and not just for New York or D.C. or America, but for human people. The face of the Arab world in America's eyes for too long has been bin Laden, and now it is not. Now the face is only the young people in Egypt and Tunisia and all the Middle Eastern countries around the world where freedom rises up. Al Qaeda's opportunity is gone."

That is where I chose to direct my thoughts as well. :)

Crankin, I too am surprised at the skepticism over bin Laden's death.

Yes, I know what the ice pops are -- I sent a few packages to Iraq in the past. I shipped several food items that I would personally call "horrid."

I think the government has adequate proof that they got the right guy. It would be highly embarrassing if it came out later that they didn't. Why make a press statement at all if they weren't sure?

I personally don't feel a need to see the evidence. I think releasing photos of a body would just throw fuel on the fire of those who hate us, so I don't think making the photos public serves any purpose. Let the evidence be preserved for historians to examine far, far into the future.

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Originally Posted by Kitsune06

So really when it comes down to it is "He's gone, halleleuja, we did it, no you can't see the body, and there are no surviving witnesses but our men, but we're telling you it's true."

Maybe I'm still shell shocked after the Bush presidency, but doesn't any of that seem just a little fishy to anyone?

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I hear ya', but if he were captured alive, I could see mass reprisals geared to gain his release... Or kidnappings for which OBL would be the ransom. Not a good outcome.

If he were alive, don't you think that there would be some benefit from al-Q saying "nah, nah...you got the wrong guy". Instead, they referred to him as a "martyr". Why would they want to allow him to suffer a "false death" since it would neutralize him for the cause...plus, if we didn't find him, that would mean that he was still successfully hidden somewhere else making us look that much more foolish. Pakistan also would have a vested interest in highlighting our error since we violated their sovereignty in the attack and making them look very two faced and foolish.

We've gone from "birthers" last week, to "deathers" this week. I, for one, have no reason to believe he wasn't killed, even if I don't see any pictures, videos, etc.

AND, if he in fact used his wife as a "human shield" during the action, I think it proves that he is just like the guy we found in a hole...

Oh, and even if the government were to release photos, copies of DNA tests, there would probably still be people who would claim it was fake. You just can't win sometimes.