Haven't ridden for 3 days because of a very scary man

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shootingstar

Kenyon, your advice as a police officer re: civilian use of guns is appreciated.

---

Ditto.

And I really think you need to file a report with the police. Go down there and talk to them. Just because you've called before doesn't mean you shouldn't call now. You need to have a record of what is going on with him. What if, (worst case scenario, knock on wood it doesn't happen) you actually do have an encounter with him? I think having previous incidences on record would show that he has been harassing you and you were taking action to stop him. Even if there wasn't anything police could do you did what you could.

We do a lot of things to keep ourselves safe while we are out there, like considering road conditions and weather conditions, putting on protective gear, etc. Try to not feel too bad about having to change your route. Just think of it as something extra you can do to protect yourself. This isn't your fault and it's not something you have in your control but you should be able to avoid him and continue peacefully.

BTW I really liked the air horn idea. A good loud one that would attract the attention of your neighbours. I'd also talk to your neighbours about what is happening and make sure they are reporting any incidences regarding him.

Lots of (((hugs))). I hope this passes for you soon. Has he lived there long? Or (wishful thinking) does he happen to rent?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NbyNW

Pretty much what I did the time I found a burglar in my house. And then I got to a phone and called 911.

Trek420, I agree with everything you said. I've done only some martial arts and want to do more, can appreciate the art & technique vs. the reality of a serious threat. Your experiences speak very well to this point and I could not have said it better.

---

OMG. I can't imagine. :eek: OMG, I'm so glad that you're ok.

Martial arts is great cross training, good for the core, balance, agility, range of motion, keeps you calm and focused ... all of which is great for cycling.

But I think you could ask anyone in any art and we don't train to be the biggest baddest MF on the block :rolleyes: I've "used it in real life" a couple-a times and never ever ever ever wanna do that again.

I want to train all my life till I'm a little bitty old lady in a hakama but I never want to "use it". And I think that's true for all of us in these arts.

I know now what I did in the moment, in other words the person was here, I did this or that ... but in the heat of the moment it just happens there's no thought involved. If you're right that's great and if not .... :(

One situation was in hindsight a little funny. A coworker not knowing that I train (she does now :rolleyes:) staged a prank of someone sticking a gun at the small of my back (which I now know was an umbrella) at an ATM and robbing me.

Lot's of thoughts went through my head in the nano seconds mostly "I can stand here and get shot through the spine or I can die moving".

Boyohboy was she surprised fractions of a second later she was almost going face first through the ATM. Realizing it was her I stopped short but with her in a pin till I knew what was going on. :mad:

Now she knows that's not funny :rolleyes:

But burglar in the home? OMG, what happened? I'm glad that you're ok! And I hope he did not get any of the bikes. :cool:

Maybe a rack for your Prius is something to think about.

Thule has one. Here is another one. And another one.

When it comes to women's self defense IMHO whatever works, let's you survive or avoid the situation. There is no one way, grasshoppers :rolleyes:

If it felt funny/odd/dangerous and yet somehow you live - you're doing it right.

If the burglar was in your home and yet somehow you live - you did it right.

As I can attest there is NO 'safe distance" :o There are times I may walk right up and shake the persons hand and introduce myself, there are times that small voice says "turn left here, don't go down that road".

It's all takemusu (the Aikido that invents itself. Or at least I've been told that sorta what that means. It might mean "root beer float" for all the Japanese I know ;))

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trek420

But burglar in the home? OMG, what happened?

---

My dog & I came home from a 20 minute walk, middle of the day, and heard a ruckus in the basement. Spidey-sense starts tingling. I called out, wondering if my husband had gotten home early and was tearing apart the house for some reason. Instead, some punk I never saw before starts walking out of the basement (we had a split-level entry, and I was still upstairs from him on the landing. He saw me and my dog and ducked back into the basement.

Full adrenalin-rush: I just started yelling, GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT HELP THERE'S SOMEONE IN MY HOUSE! HELP! POLICE! CALL 911! HELP HELP HELP!

This is where, with all the adrenalin, I did feel like taking self-defense and a very tiny bit of wing chun, helped me keep my wits. I had forgotten my cell phone (which I later found by the door) and all I wanted was to call 911. And I had to make a quick decision. So I had to go with my gut as to whether it was safe to run inside/upstairs to grab a phone. Which I did, yelling all the way, thankfully did not encounter anyone else, ran back to the front of the house, called 911, and waited until the police came.

On the one hand I felt silly yelling because my rational brain kept saying, "no one is going to hear you -- everyone is at work and you just saw the postal carrier go in the other direction." But I felt right doing it because it was the best way to assert my presence and my intentions. Also, I am small and soft-spoken but I know how to use my lungs and project my voice when I have to. (We had women in my class who didn't seem to know how to do that, so the class was a safe place for them to get introduced to those "yelling" muscles)

The punk(s?) was gone by the time the police came. We found that they had gotten in through the kitchen window (it was hot, we didn't have AC, and everyone was leaving their windows open that week), bagged up most of my jewelry and electronics and left them in the kitchen, and were busy sacking the basement when I interrupted them. They escaped through the basement windows (there were two exit points) and left the valuables. All they got away with were our Nintendo Wii, accessories & games, and some DVDs (seasons 1 & 2 of The Family Guy (grrr!) and The Ben Stiller Show). It could have been much worse, thankfully it wasn't.

It took a few days for my body to calm down after that incident. I'm pretty sure my dog has not recovered, as he started barking at any visitors we had, the postal carrier, etc. and has some ongoing reactive behaviors.

I have been thinking about your situation all morning. It just stinks!

Some great advice here though... as always!

((((TE members))))

Tuckerville said:

Quote:

---

She LIVES down the street from this guy. Having a (safe distance) conversation with him and learning his NAME is not outside the realm of reasonable possibilities. "what if what if what if" What if simply speaking to him was like sticking a pin in his little scary balloon and he never bothered her again? That is JUST as likely (in fact more likely, since the incident of attack is far less common than simple every day interactions between strangers) as any of the scenarios that are being imagined, because no one HERE knows enough to make the judgment.

Again and again in my life I have befriended or at least neutralized difficult people; come to terms with their craziness or unpredictability or eccentricities or just creepiness; just by acknowledging their humanity, and TRUSTING MY INSTINCTS.

I'm just saying that she has not done everything I would do before I took drastic, final action. My instincts have spoken.

Karen
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
insidious ungovernable cardboard

---

I heartily agree with Tuckerville, though this does not appear to be a popular position on this board.

Speaking of martial arts, I once heard a great story told by Ram Dass about a tiny little old man, an Aikido master, who calmed down a very scary and aggressive man who was threatening people on an inner-city subway by simply connecting with him and not treating him like he was a very scary and aggressive man. The big, scary man just wanted to be seen. I am not saying this is the same scenario at all, and if I were the OP, I would definitely be feeling some fear and taking precautions, but I do think living as a captive in your own neighborhood is not a great option, living in fear of someone only generates more fear in the world (and makes you a victim), and there may be an alternative that might be more healing and liberating for both parties than arming yourself to the teeth and/or completely avoiding any possibility of ever coming into contact with him.

Really, though, good luck. It certainly sounds like a challenging situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lunacycles

.... but I do think living as a captive in your own neighborhood is not a great option, living in fear of someone only generates more fear in the world (and makes you a victim), and there may be an alternative that might be more healing and liberating for both parties than arming yourself to the teeth and/or completely avoiding any possibility of ever coming into contact with him.

---

Agreed! Staying huddled inside your house unless out with the gattling gun is not acceptable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trek420

\But I think you could ask anyone in any art and we don't train to be the biggest baddest MF on the block :rolleyes: I've "used it in real life" a couple-a times and never ever ever ever wanna do that again.

I want to train all my life till I'm a little bitty old lady in a hakama but I never want to "use it". And I think that's true for all of us in these arts.

---

I must compliment you on your creative self-expression. It's eye-catching imagery. :p

Stacy, let us know in the end....hopefully a good result that keeps you safe but still motivated to keep cycling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trek420

But I think you could ask anyone in any art and we don't train to be the biggest baddest MF on the block :rolleyes: I've "used it in real life" a couple-a times and never ever ever ever wanna do that again.

I want to train all my life till I'm a little bitty old lady in a hakama but I never want to "use it". And I think that's true for all of us in these arts.

---

I look at it this way: when you study the martial arts, part of that training is that when you spar/fight it is against an opponent with whom you carry mutual respect and honor. It's not just physical training, it's training for your entire person. It may be about having the right attitude or it can be much more philosophical or spiritual, depending on what you are studying and who is teaching you. And it's that benefit of cultivating and balancing the whole person that makes studying martial arts so interesting and worthwhile. That's just my newbie 2 cents.

Confronting someone who is (actually or potentially) committing a crime against you is totally different. The person committing the crime has already made the decision to disrespect your personal space and/or your property, etc. They are not operating by the same rules that you use in a martial arts context. Every situation is different, and sometimes you will have time to consider your response and in other situations you just have to react.

I was so lucky that my home burglary did not develop into a physical confrontation. I cannot know what would have happened. I know that I would have fought like crazy, but just as likely I would have gotten hurt or worse.

Back to the OP's situation -- you have lots of food for thought here and I hope you and your family are able to settle on a course of action that you are comfortable with, both in terms of what you can do now with what you know, as well as being prepared in case things escalate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NbyNW

That's just my newbie 2 cents.

---

That's a good $0.02 at any rank:D You will get to train with people who push the boundaries a bit. And we need that too.

I've had some interesting training moments with students, mostly male, and mostly flat out beginners :rolleyes: who just do not like to be thrown by a woman. ;)

Think the MA version of male cyclists who do anything not to be "girl'd".

This can be amusing in an art that simply favors experience, skill, training over strength, height, speed .... practically anything else.

NbyNW, glad your confrontation was ok. Stuff is just stuff, it can be replaced. What matters is that you are ok. That's what matters most for us all; have fun, be safe, ride ride ride ride!

Wow - I'm overwhelmed by the number of responses. I wish I could respond to each one individually - so many great suggestions and interesting and scary stories (VERY scary) and just . . . sniff . . . this is the world's most supportive forum.

I changed my route but haven't gone so far as to get in the car and driving somewhere different. I have such a short time before work to get a good ride in. If I had to drive somewhere, I wouldn't be able to ride before work every day. The route I'm going has some spots where he could see me if he was looking for me, but he'd have to be looking and I honestly don't think he's THAT obsessed.

I've dealt with a lot of insane people at work (ER nurse) and in my life (lots of crazy family members) and I have learned the very hard way that trying to reason with them or befriend them is not a good idea. They're not reasonable and they're just wired differently. He's been out in the road waving a gun around at cars going by (including my son's car). I've heard stories from other people about him. I'm not going to go introducing myself to him or giving him any encouragement. Talking to him, looking at him, riding past his house . . . . all that's encouragement. I do not want to attract further interest in any way. Although he's been seen prowling around on our property, I'm holding out the hope that he doesn't know who I am or where I live. He may not have put 2 & 2 together yet.

The people who own the camp behind our property had some major run-ins with him. They started out trying to reason with him, then fought with him, but no matter what they did he just got more and more aggitated and obsessed with the conflict. He gets whipped into a frenzy. They ended up building a heavy locked gate across their driveway and renting a backhoe to dig trenches on either side. The police and a lawyer were involved at some point but nothing short of locking him up would work.

If I call the police, I'm afraid they'll go talk to him. If they go talk to him, things will really escalate. He WANTS to make people afraid, and he enjoys conflict, and he's completely unreasonable. He loves negative attention.

The neighbors across the field from us had some problems with him, too. I know at one point some of the people he was harassing got some sort of posse together and snuck over to his house and cut off the tops of all his apple trees in the middle of the night - not a good way to calm him down, for sure! :rolleyes:

Anyways - I think I might already be off his radar. I'm on the new route and I'm keeping my eyes open for him. I've never seen him on that road before and if I see him coming I'll figure something out. He's got to be in his 60s at least. He's big and strong but I'll bet he's not very fast. I'll run between some trees - somewhere where his 4-wheeler won't fit - and dial 911 (the cops are only 30 minutes away!) and lay down on the ground with my gun . . . and that's totally not going to happen. He's not THAT crazy - he just likes scaring people. If he actually liked hurting people, he'd be in jail by now.

I was really afraid at first, but everything will be alright. He's not obsessed with me, in particular.

Thanks again, everybody.

Sounds good. I think it's a smart plan. Now you can carry on with your life, but you have an idea of what to do next should things move to another level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OakLeaf

(((((((staceysue)))))))

KC, she has plenty to get a restraining order in Ohio. It's different in every state. As is the issue of whether it has to be a domestic situation, or whether stranger stalking qualifies. It wouldn't hurt to talk to a lawyer, although when someone's really wacko as this guy sounds like, it's debatable how much good a court order will do...

---

A *restraining* order is a civil order, not a criminal one! It is NOT criminally enforceable (I believe it is the same in every state). A PROTECTIVE order IS criminally enforceable, but must be ordered by a judge, not a lawyer. Again, I believe it is the same in every state. You call a cop out for a violation of a restraining order and there is NOTHING I can do about it (unless another crime, say trespassing, is occurring). Based upon what she has said, she probably has enough for a criminal trespass warning. She may have enough for a restraining order, I'm not a lawyer so don't know, but unless she wants her lawyer to come out and help her, it is pretty much useless.

What she is doing now is good...avoidance and awareness. I am hoping she has changed her mind about the gun issue, but that is up to her if she is carrying it legally. If it continues or escalates, filing a report and/or requesting extra patrol to establish history is critical. A good department will take her seriously and, if this guy has done this before, has probably dealt with him in the past.

Here's a general summary. The National Crime Victims' Center supposedly has a state-by-state analysis, but I can't get to their site, maybe my security settings are too high for them. :rolleyes:

"Restraining order" is a general term; a civil protective (or protection) order is a type of restraining order. Violation of a civil protective order is a crime in most states. Some states go so far as to require a particular police response to a report of violation of a CPO.

Any court order has to be issued by a judge. But most states don't have a special procedure for stalking victims to go to court pro se, so as with any court appearance, it's best to be represented by a lawyer.

But as I said - this is mainly academic, since it sounds like staceysue's stalker is likely to be the kind of person who would just be inflamed by receiving a summons, and who would completely ignore a court order.