Thread Drift

Yes, I don't care about anyone's preference, either. And when I said it seemed weird to me, it wasn't in a "Pagans have open caskets and that is weird" way.
Not intending to offend anyone. I know why I think it's weird; it makes me uncomfortable and it's hard for me to understand how people can find comfort in the practice. But, I know people do, in fact most people, I think.
I don't like anything to do with death, quite frankly. Some people find spiritual comfort in thinking about where they will be when they are gone, but in my mind, you're just dead, buried in the ground.
OK, no more talk of this subject. I'm sorry I brought it up, even though the funeral I went to was "uplifting."

Well, for what it's worth, the umbrella term 'pagan' covers a very wide variety of religions, each one of which has different funeral customs. Plus, Catholics often have wakes where one views the body to say their goodbyes.
Burial customs vary all over the place. :)

Well, as usual I'm butting in way too late in a discussion, but this is a really interesting topic so here goes anyway :rolleyes:. I have no opinion on the religious side of it, but I think what one finds acceptable probably has more to do with the customs you're raised with than the religion that may or may not surround it. I've never been to a funeral with an open casket, but I've "viewed" the body at a sitting in advance twice, and they were strong experiences. It brought home very strongly the fact that they were dead. I was a little freaked out by how unnatural they looked and unlike themselves, there is something very very different about a dead body that doesn't have only to do with skin tone. I think for me it was a good thing, though, because this was obviously the last time I could see them - and I left with no wish to see them again. Not that they looked horrible, they just weren't there anymore.

What did upset me later was being handed an urn with my brother's ashes. I've been raised thinking this is a perfectly normal funeral practice, but when I actually held a small container with the only physical remains of him it felt quite traumatic. So you never know how you're going to react until you're there, I guess.

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Originally Posted by lph

What did upset me later was being handed an urn with my brother's ashes. I've been raised thinking this is a perfectly normal funeral practice, but when I actually held a small container with the only physical remains of him it felt quite traumatic. So you never know how you're going to react until you're there, I guess.

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Yes, I know just what you mean! I was with my mother through her death, and managed to hold myself together ok until the fellow arrived at my door and kindly handed me the box of ashes. I thanked him and closed the door. That's when I lost it. A year later we were all able to have a nice gathering to release her ashes into the sea, and by that time I was more at peace with it.

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Karen, see my answer to Robin's post. I apologize if I was imprecise in my language and unwittingly offended you. As I said, this is my PERSONAL feeling and is not a criticism of anyone's preferences.

And, to be perfectly clear, I have nothing against Pagans and any other religion/belief. I don't appreciate your comments and presumptions.

I also could care less if people want open caskets - it's their preference, their money, and if it helps their family/friends find comfort, more power to them.

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No, I asked for clarification to give you a chance to avoid offending anyone. I'm not offended. I read and re-read your post and I still don't understand why you used that word that way, especially followed by "But that's just my opinion." My choices were to assume you used "imprecise language" or you used the term in a derogatory manner. I gave you a chance to clarify. I'm still not clear, but that's okay. I don't have to be.

Karen

Actually, I have heard other people say that over the years where I grew up, which was an East Coast Irish Catholic town. When they said it, it was clearly not intended to be an insult and the word "pagan" was not loaded with any negative connotation in particular. Perhaps it has a meaning or usage in some parts of the country that you are not accustomed to hearing, but that does not automatically make it derogatory.

I come from a semi-fundamentalist background. It does hold a derogatory connotation in those circles.

Still, I concede your point that the OP may not have been using it that way. (I can't remember exactly who it was now, and I don't want to use the wrong name.)

Karen

Yes for the most part I would believe in the Bible Belt (which I live in) Pagan is a negative term but I looked up the definition and would not be offended to be lumped as one.

As a non-practicing Lutheran I still think my husband's mostly Catholic/Baptist/Church of Christ family with their open caskets for the whole funeral is weird. My husband was a little offended when I said so but to me it just isn't how it is done and quite frankly makes me a bit uncomfortable even though I have been to I think five services now where it was done like that.

My husband's grandma's second husband was a Mason. They had Masonic graveside services- those were very interesting.

I find all this talk of open caskets interesting. In my early 20s, seeing my grandfather's body profoundly affected me and not in a good way. The funeral home made him look 70 rather than the 92 yr old grandfather with age spots. I didn't know him at 70 so it was a stranger in the casket. I only viewed his body because my mother and the funeral director wouldn't shut up. I'm older and wiser now.

But open caskets are not uncommon. Many religions embalm, which goes along with open caskets, and became popular in the US during the civil war. Families paid for their family members to be embalmed and transported home so they could see the body again. Think about the incredible lengthy funeral train (and stops) for Lincoln's body to be put on view - as are many heads of state. You'd be interested to know the number of bodies which can still be viewed -- or maybe not.:rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embalming

my grandmother never wore makeup a single day in her life. Well, the funeral director got the last word - She had my grandmother wearing lipstick and everything else. The family was horrified.
I think it's kind of silly.

I don't know if this has happened to anyone else, but it's the most embarrassing thing ever. Remember the episode of "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" where Mary starts laughing at Chuckles the Clown's funeral? Well, that has happened to me at an open casket wake. I managed to run into the bathroom and pull myself together, but yeah, a little too late. The fact that it was wrong made it that much funnier. Open casket wakes are way too surreal for me. It's totally because of nerves and not that I find death funny. I am always afraid it will happen again, adding an extra layer of stress to the situation.

It's never happened to me at a funeral/wake/etc, but it has happened in other situations where laughing is totally inappropriate. I think I transmitted this gene to my older son, because there have been a few times when I have been someplace with him and if we happen to glance at each other, I have to squelch the laughter and so does he.

That happened to my husband's cousin. He is one who cannot stop laughing, a bellowing, infectious laugh. DH said it was really funny but embarrassing.

You know the other thing about Lutheran services, if they are in the church you have to close the casket before moving it into the church. When my Uncle Bocky died his services were at a very old church, the only place to display the body was in the entry way. I was a little taken back that the body was RIGHT THERE, you could not go in without seeing it. I don't like a forced viewing!

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Originally Posted by Crankin

It's never happened to me at a funeral/wake/etc, but it has happened in other situations where laughing is totally inappropriate. I think I transmitted this gene to my older son, because there have been a few times when I have been someplace with him and if we happen to glance at each other, I have to squelch the laughter and so does he.

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In retrospect, it has happened to me in other inappropriate situations, too. At a wedding, in a very quiet drawing class. I'll buy that there's a genetic link. My cousin got to laughing so hard at her father's wake that she couldn't attend his funeral. My mother also had laughing fits.

I cracked up in about my third session at Boot Camp. The instructor is the perfect specimen of a man--I swear he looks like a prototype of some robotic thing. Like a GI Joe, with muscles, v-shaped torso, stoked up forearms. So he's up there doing upper cuts in rhythm, left, right, left, right, and I can see him in the mirror. All of a sudden a vision of Popeye the Sailor Man flexing his anchor tattoo comes into my head. Being nervous and not knowing the instructor very well, I'm just cracking up in the corner, almost crying. I had to go into the restroom and compose myself.

I never can get through the class without thinking "toot-toot" during the upper-cuts.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Aggie_Ama

My husband's grandma's second husband was a Mason. They had Masonic graveside services- those were very interesting.

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That's intriguing. I may have to do some quicky Wiki research.

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Originally Posted by Zen

That's intriguing. I may have to do some quicky Wiki research.

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Hmmm. Yeah. Since they reputedly have some kind of casket ceremony when new members join, I bet it's pretty interesting what they do when a member dies. Oh well. As far as I know I don't know any Masons, so it'll just have to remain a mystery to me.

The only funerals I've been to here have been Lutheran. I find the organ music initially consoling and releasing. If the minister has known the deceased well, or done his homework, he can say some relevant remarks. The rest I don't connect to much until the meal after. After a bit people start sharing good memories of the deceased and I find that a very comforting and meaningful tradition.

At my mom's funeral they had to jump start the hearse. We thought they were going to have to haul her to the cemetery in the back of a pick-up. And the preacher was late.

When he arrived at the cemetery, it was in a car with a license plate frame that said "I feel the need for speed"

Classy.
.................................http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...illbillies.jpg

I've never been to a funeral & don't really want to go to one! All the loved ones that have passed away did so when i moved overseas & was too expensive to travel home.

Memorial services yes..funerals no..

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Originally Posted by Zen

That's intriguing. I may have to do some quicky Wiki research.

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Well it was at the graveside they had like some secret thing they were saying. I mean it was all normal English but none of it really made sense. Some of it did but then some didn't. And the men all wore aprons, had swords and kept calling him "BROTHER BILL".

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Originally Posted by Duck on Wheels

Hmmm. Yeah. Since they reputedly have some kind of casket ceremony when new members join, I bet it's pretty interesting what they do when a member dies. Oh well. As far as I know I don't know any Masons, so it'll just have to remain a mystery to me.

The only funerals I've been to here have been Lutheran. I find the organ music initially consoling and releasing. If the minister has known the deceased well, or done his homework, he can say some relevant remarks. The rest I don't connect to much until the meal after. After a bit people start sharing good memories of the deceased and I find that a very comforting and meaningful tradition.

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My Pawpaw's funeral was conducted by a dear friend that was a Lutheran Pastor (or do we call them ministers), it was funny and sweet. Everyone came back to my Nanny's house for beer and sharing funny stories. I don't remember organ music but I know they played Amazing Grace. Pawpaw wanted Bagpipes but my Nanny found them too depressing, I always was disappointed she didn't get them for him.

Whoops...I was backing up into our driveway after picking up Ian's mtb from the shop & hit the back light..:o It's been raining & couldn't see through the back window very well..

I'm patiently waiting for a call from leaseplan's insurance folks..hopefully we can get this fixed in the next day or two..

oops..

I was rooting through my bag at the gym and I found a pair of brake levers.
In my gym bag.
Is this rock bottom? Should I seek help?

You never know when you might need to stop quickly. :D

Well, this winter is STILL keeping us off our bikes. Despite having crammed in about three puny 11 mile rides over the past 3 months, it's just about impossible to ride. Either it's nice and sunny but 25F degrees and windy (like today)....or it's 35 and raining sleet all day.... or there is a snow/ice/mud mess on the roads.
I tell you I am really really ready for Spring. :(
Good thing I at least am still able to do several miles of fitness walks a couple times a week...or else I'd have become a gelatinous blob by now.

I guess the bright side is that I've had a little more time to focus on non-biking things this winter, projects that I've been putting off for too long. :o

It's the last day of February and we usually have baseball tryouts on this weekend every year. We woke up to SNOW and it still hasn't stopped snowing. sheesh Am I still in Arkansas?

Karen

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Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl

Well, this winter is STILL keeping us off our bikes. Despite having crammed in about three puny 11 mile rides over the past 3 months, it's just about impossible to ride. Either it's nice and sunny but 25F degrees and windy (like today)....or it's 35 and raining sleet all day.... or there is a snow/ice/mud mess on the roads.
I tell you I am really really ready for Spring. :(
Good thing I at least am still able to do several miles of fitness walks a couple times a week...or else I'd have become a gelatinous blob by now.

I guess the bright side is that I've had a little more time to focus on non-biking things this winter, projects that I've been putting off for too long. :o

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Unfortunately, more is on the way. I think those north of us (PA, NY, New England, are supposed to get it worse) Peeked out the window and there is a coating of snow/sleet on the ground. Checked weather.com---5-8 inches expected tonight into Monday. :(:(:(:(:( Supposed to be our most significant snow since 2006.

And to think, yesterday I saw daffodils poking through the ground....

Hopefully, it will RAIN, as predicted, later this week and melt the inevitable mess.

I'm warming up the sunroom now and will reacquaint myself with Coach Troy.

This has one endless, unrelenting winter.

Snowing here already. We're not supposed to get real accumulation until after midnight, but it's already sticking. I'm going to walk to the store in a bit. I love falling snow!

That said, I hope it melts fast!

Well, the snow hasn't reached here yet, but tonight... they are predicting 6-15 inches in our area! I am happy because I am going up to Vermont Friday for last weekend of x country skiing. So, I might get to practice locally before we leave.
But, I am ready to get on my bike. It seems like every time we had a warm day, it was windy. I mean like 20-40 mph gusts windy. This is the first time in 4 years I haven't ridden at least once in January and February. I've been going to spin classes 1-3 times a week and using my trainer and "learning" how to run.

Crankin, where do you stay when you go to Vermont?

I'll be there for almost 3 weeks in September, and I usually camp while I'm there. But this time, since my stay is a lot longer, I'm thinking of a condo or something smaller, but bigger than a tent. Everything I checked online seems to have in-season rates, not less than $900 a week. Yikes. I'll be there before peeping and skiing season.

If you have any insight about cheap, non-touristy lodging, I'd love to hear it. I don't care what part of Vermont, though my son will be staying in the middle of the state.

Karen

We are staying at an inn in Stowe; I can't remember the name. You might want to consider a B and B. Some are very reasonable.
That said, you also might want to think about Craftsbury Outdoor Center. It is way up there in the Northeast Kingdom. They have rooms for 2 and a communal bath (I didn't really like that part of it, truthfully), like a dorm. But, they also have cabins you can rent and September is definitely in between season. The best part of Craftsbury is the food. They have a communal dining room and the meals are included in the price. The food is good, healthy, etc.
I went there for the out the door x country skiing. They also have a lake where rowers train and you can mountain bike on the trails in the summer/fall. Very hilly road riding around there.
Here is the link: http://www.craftsbury.com/index.php?flash=yes

Tuckerville, I've stayed at The Sterling Ridge Resort before for winter time fun which is near Smuggler's Notch in Jeffersonville, VT. I wouldn't call it cheap non-touristy but it is bigger than a tent and very comfortable. I just looked at weekly rates for log cabins. Their off season rates are very reasonable but it is defined as March 29 -May 24 2009; Oct. 25 - Nov. 24, 2009 and you said September. Up there, their foliage season rates begin September 25. So if you are there before then you would be under summertime rates. It looks like you could get a Studio cabin for $880/week or a Standard cabin for $950/week. The cabins are very clean and comfortable, all have full kitchens with microwaves and dishes etc. All have bathtubs and shower, and either a wood stove or gas fireplace for heat, queen-sized beds and all have porches with Adirondack chairs. I stayed in the Studio cabin and it was very cute, quiet, and romantic. There is a lodge on the premises but the cabins I think they are far enough away to keep you away from all the hullaballoo if that's what you want. Don't know your finances but maybe camp for one week and cabin-it for two if you can't find much cheaper.

Oooh, Craftsbury sounds lovely. I shall investigate. Thank you!

Karen

That's a good idea, Mudmucker. I just get tired of cooking all my food outside--I can handle it for a week or 10 days, but after that, I need some cable TV and running water at my fingertips! Hubby is thinking of joining me for a little while, and I could get a cabin for then. Thanks! :)

Karen

Must... drift.. thread....
Sunny as usual here. hope it's the same with you all.
The only unusual thing was that I read my hometown paper. It said an 82 year old widow had died in an apartment fire. name withheld.
Mom gave me a scare, as she was in the garage.

I miss Starfish

Got me an iphone today. Kinda intimidating. Now everyone (all three of us!) at my very small company has iphones. I don't know if that will make us work more efficiently, but we can geek out together over apps. Or something.

my son came over for dinner! we had razor clams. then for dessert i made shakes with my bike powered blender.

I'm in the living room of my son's house, waiting for his son to be born! :) Happy happy joy joy!

Karen

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

I'm in the living room of my son's house, waiting for his son to be born! :) Happy happy joy joy!

Karen

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wow THAT is cool. keep us posted.

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

I'm in the living room of my son's house, waiting for his son to be born! :) Happy happy joy joy!

Karen

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any news????