Surly Love

I checked to make sure that the front rack that I bought for my surly pacer works today. So, the surly's gonna double for my touring bike until I build up something else at some point.

But the wheels I got for my surly pacer are these ones:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-Mavic-A7...item58864d405a

XT hubs, 36 spokes, mavic a719 rim.

That seller fairly frequently has them on ebay, and sometimes has them on auction - I waited for auctions & lucked out and got one set for about $90 shipped after I damaged the rims on the first set I bought dropping down into a parallel grate in the road - I think that set was like $160 shipped in auction.

I don't know if the long haul trucker in your size has 26 inch wheels or 700c.

But depending on what they're quoting for handbuilt wheels vs stock wheels, that seller might be an option.

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Originally Posted by Catriona

I don't know if the long haul trucker in your size has 26 inch wheels or 700c.

But depending on what they're quoting for handbuilt wheels vs stock wheels, that seller might be an option.

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Thanks for the link - the two small LHT sizes takes 26-inch wheels.

Another option for me might be to just take the complete Surly build and just upgrade bars and saddle for now. That would still be more than the $1004 + tax (spring sale), but rather less than the +$1,600 :) Thankfully there is time to consider all of my options

Does anyone know the difference between these two cranksets?

Andel, Forged arms, Silver. Aluminum rings, 110mm BCD, 48-36-26t (Surly build)
and
Shimano Sora FC3403 50-39-30t 9-Speed 170mm 2-Piece Crankset (custom build)

Also

Front Derailleur Shimano Tiagra, FD-4403 triple (Surly build)
and
Tiagra FD4503 9spd Trpl 31.8/28.6mm Front Der (custom build)

Can you use 170 mm cranks, or are you going to have to swap them out for shorter ones regardless? What does your fitter say about that?

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Can you use 170 mm cranks, or are you going to have to swap them out for shorter ones regardless? What does your fitter say about that?

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The 170mm cranks listed were my fitters suggestion - the 110mm is Surly stock. He has done a body fit on me for my Trek, so he has all of that information, I am long-legged with a short torso.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

The 170mm cranks listed were my fitters suggestion - the 110mm is Surly stock. He has done a body fit on me for my Trek, so he has all of that information, I am long-legged with a short torso.

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BCD is not the length of the crank arms.

My opinion, which is worth nothing: buy the Complete. Change the saddle and bars (and get the rebate from "selling back" the bars and saddle the bike came with). Ride lots.

My dose of cruel reality, also worth nothing: you don't have much experience. You are only just learning to ride a bike. Trust Surly to provide a good stock set up. Save your money. Don't trust your fitter farther than you can throw him. Ride lots. Customize after.

-Knot: is a fitter, isn't a wrench.

(I'm so serious. What is a upgrade for one person, is a P.O.S. for another. You really need to ride a whole bunch before you know what is an upgrade FOR YOU. Buy stock. Surly is good stuff. It is designed deliberately to be compatible with a gazillion options. You and the bike will grow together. Trust all the Surly mavens on this site. We wouldn't steer you wrong. We believe in these bikes and we ride these bikes.)

Two different things. 170 on the Sora is the crankarm length. 110 on the Andel is bolt center distance - the mounting size of your chainrings. You didn't specify how long the Andel cranks are.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Two different things. 170 on the Sora is the crankarm length. 110 on the Andel is bolt center distance - the mounting size of your chainrings. You didn't specify how long the Andel cranks are.

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All the info I have on the Andel is from the Surly site, I will see what I can find out... Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it.

I do appreciate the advice and dose of reality - that is why I brought it here in the first place. I KNOW me when I really want something - which is another reason for the enforced waiting period... It might cost more later to upgrade some of the components, but there is also the point that I would better understand what I am doing. Perhaps by then I would be able to do at least some of the work...

Enforced waiting periods are good :D

At this point I am strongly leaning to the Complete LHT with upgraded bars/saddle. That leaves more money for accessories and bike clothes :)

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

My opinion, which is worth nothing: buy the Complete. Change the saddle and bars (and get the rebate from "selling back" the bars and saddle the bike came with). Ride lots.

My dose of cruel reality, also worth nothing: you don't have much experience. You are only just learning to ride a bike. Trust Surly to provide a good stock set up. Save your money. Don't trust your fitter farther than you can throw him. Ride lots. Customize after.

Trust all the Surly mavens on this site. We wouldn't steer you wrong. We believe in these bikes and we ride these bikes.)

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Yeah, what she said.

The wheels and the drive train on the complete will be fine for quite a while.
Ride lots now. Upgrade later.

The crank length on the 46 cm Complete LHT is 165mm.

Your fitter says you'd be better off with a 170mm. (which is typical for a woman. We have longer femurs than men, and so need longer crank arms than men of similar size to achieve correct KOPS)

HOWEVER: 5mm is pretty damm small, and well within the realm of cleat positioning for cleated pedals (aka "clipless") or foot positioning for platform pedals, or even shifting the saddle for long-armed riders.

Your fitter is pissing me off. If he can't cope with 5mm difference with a new rider who doesn't yet know her preferences, and within a newbie budget; then I want his job.

ETA: I'm 5'8", with 33 inch inseams. My Surly CC 52cm has 170mm cranks, stock. I'm happiest with 175mm cranks with my cleated bike (Waterford). I have platform pedals on my CC so naturally move my feet to the optimal position for my power output relative to KOPS. No problem. I truly believe you would have no problem with 165mm cranks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

BCD is not the length of the crank arms.

My opinion, which is worth nothing: buy the Complete. Change the saddle and bars (and get the rebate from "selling back" the bars and saddle the bike came with). Ride lots.

My dose of cruel reality, also worth nothing: you don't have much experience. You are only just learning to ride a bike. Trust Surly to provide a good stock set up. Save your money. Don't trust your fitter farther than you can throw him. Ride lots. Customize after.

-Knot: is a fitter, isn't a wrench.

(I'm so serious. What is a upgrade for one person, is a P.O.S. for another. You really need to ride a whole bunch before you know what is an upgrade FOR YOU. Buy stock. Surly is good stuff. It is designed deliberately to be compatible with a gazillion options. You and the bike will grow together. Trust all the Surly mavens on this site. We wouldn't steer you wrong. We believe in these bikes and we ride these bikes.)

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To KnottedYet:
Chica. Thank you for expressing my feelings exactly. :D

To Caitrin: the stock gearing is better for general riding and commuting. The "special build" gearing is higher with bigger chain rings. Good for speed and training, but not quite as good if your a beginning rider. You'd be happier, in my opinion going with the "stock LHT" build and upgrading bars (shouldn't be too expensive) and saddle (brooks B-17 is a great choice). Be careful with crank arm length as the LHT has a lower bottom bracket (like touring bikes do) you don't want your crank arms to be too long on a smaller frame.

Peace, Love, & Bicycles. :cool:

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Originally Posted by moderncyclista

To KnottedYet:
Chica. Thank you for expressing my feelings exactly. :D

To Caitrin: the stock gearing is better for general riding and commuting. The "special build" gearing is higher with bigger chain rings. Good for speed and training, but not quite as good if your a beginning rider. You'd be happier, in my opinion going with the "stock LHT" build and upgrading bars (shouldn't be too expensive) and saddle (brooks B-17 is a great choice). Be careful with crank arm length as the LHT has a lower bottom bracket (like touring bikes do) you don't want your crank arms to be too long on a smaller frame.

Peace, Love, & Bicycles. :cool:

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Good information on the custom build gearing. I had already started leaning in this direction before KnottedYet spoke up, and both of you have only confirmed what I was thinking. I do like the bars he selected. I found one here - though will have to get used to this style and the bar-end shifters :)

http://www.bikeman.com/HB9776.html

I cannot find any information on the crank arm length on the Andel crankset - even on the Andel website - but that is the stock Surly part so there will be no problem from that direction.

I've sent a request to my fitter/builder for a quote on the Complete blue LHT with upgraded bars/saddle - though I have an idea what that should be :)

If he's putting you on sora cranks & also a tiagra front derailleur... just go with the stock long haul trucker. The custom build doesn't seem to be upgrading your components much (or at all...)

As for crank length - I'd say use the 165 mm cranks. You'll be fine. Shorter cranks are a bit easier to spin, harder to mash with. And they're gentler on your knees.

I'm 5'1 and have changed all my bikes to 165 mm. My knees feel 170 cranks a bit more.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

Good information on the custom build gearing. I had already started leaning in this direction before KnottedYet spoke up, and both of you have only confirmed what I was thinking. I do like the bars he selected. I found one here - though will have to get used to this style and the bar-end shifters :)

http://www.bikeman.com/HB9776.html

I cannot find any information on the crank arm length on the Andel crankset - even on the Andel website - but that is the stock Surly part so there will be no problem from that direction.

I've sent a request to my fitter/builder for a quote on the Complete blue LHT with upgraded bars/saddle - though I have an idea what that should be :)

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An added bonus is you get the color you want:) These ladies are wise - listen to them:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catrin

I cannot find any information on the crank arm length on the Andel crankset - even on the Andel website - but that is the stock Surly part so there will be no problem from that direction.

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It's listed on the Surly LHT page. 165 mm for the 46cm bike. Andel makes several sizes. All component brands make several sizes. The size chosen by Surly for the 46cm LHT is 165mm.

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Originally Posted by Blueberry

An added bonus is you get the color you want:) These ladies are wise - listen to them:)

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Yes, a blue LHT is in my future - I can see it now :D When I ask advice from people who know a lot more about something than I do - I do listen :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catrin

I do like the bars he selected. I found one here - though will have to get used to this style and the bar-end shifters :)

http://www.bikeman.com/HB9776.html

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<gentle sigh>
Please tell me he didn't recommend the 40cm bars you linked.
The LHT already comes with 40cm bars. Why pay more? If this is the first pair of drops you've ridden, why change?

In all likelihood, you need narrower bars anyway. Women tend to have narrower shoulders than men of similar size.

Buy the stock. If it seems too wide (pain in between the shoulders and up into neck) then go to an LBS and have someone measure you for bar width. Buy a pair of Salsa Poco or Short and Shallow, sell back the stock, and ride on!

(I'm riding 38cm bars, and I'm 5'8" with wide shoulders. Wide shoulders. It's hard to find women's shirts that fit.)

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

<gentle sigh>
Please tell me he didn't recommend the 40cm bars you linked.
The LHT already comes with 40cm bars. Why pay more? If this is the first pair of drops you've ridden, why change?

In all likelihood, you need narrower bars anyway. Women tend to have narrower shoulders than men of similar size.

Buy the stock. If it seems too wide (pain in between the shoulders and up into neck) then go to an LBS and have someone measure you for bar width. Buy a pair of Salsa Poco or Short and Shallow, sell back the stock, and ride on!

(I'm riding 38cm bars, and I'm 5'8" with wide shoulders. Wide shoulders. It's hard to find women's shirts that fit.)

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Ummmm...what I linked to are the bars he recommended :o
I am glad that I brought this here...

Well, don't base your decisions on my ranting and raving. I'm quite opinionated.

But I also specialize in women's bike fits, I get paid to be opinionated! :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should just buy the complete, and get the Brooks B17 saddle of your dreams from www.wallbike.com If you decide the B17 doesn't suit you within 6 months of purchase, you can send it back for full refund. Will your LBS give you a full refund within 6 months?

Ride, ride, ride. That's the best way to learn what you need most.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Well, don't base your decisions on my ranting and raving. I'm quite opinionated.

But I also specialize in women's bike fits, I get paid to be opinionated! :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should just buy the complete, and get the Brooks B17 saddle of your dreams from www.wallbike.com If you decide the B17 doesn't suit you within 6 months of purchase, you can send it back for full refund. Will your LBS give you a full refund within 6 months?

Ride, ride, ride. That's the best way to learn what you need most.

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LOL, as I said, I was already starting to lean this direction before you spoke up, including the wallbike.com purchase for the saddle. Certainly no LBS will give me a 6-month refund period. I will pay $30 more for the saddle this way - but the refund period is attractive.

Obviously it is in the fitter/builders best interest to sell me a custom build, whether he can provide a true upgrade in the budget given or not... It is in my best interest to learn what I can, and to get advice where I can :D

OTOH... I'm probably Catrin's same size or maybe a little bigger, and I absolutely need crankarms no longer than 165 mm (can't even ride 167.5) and handlebars no narrower than 40 cm...

Everyone's different.

But it does sound like the stock bike would be fine for you...

Yeah, I just don't see the point of switching one pair of 40cm for another pair of 40cm; especially when it's the first pair of drops someone has ever ridden.

Riding usually tells you best of all what you need. If stock is acceptable, I'd go with that for starters.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Yeah, I just don't see the point of switching one pair of 40cm for another pair of 40cm; especially when it's the first pair of drops someone has ever ridden.

Riding usually tells you best of all what you need. If stock is acceptable, I'd go with that for starters.

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I don't think he looked at the complete build specs that closely and did not see that the bike comes with compact 40cm bars for the three smallest sizes. The same thing happened with his spec for the brake levers, he included the standard size, not the compact size that Surly includes for the two smallest sizes. This is the same individual who first thought the LHT would not fit me - but I understand that he was very busy that day and just looked at something incorrectly.

I am also checking with another LBS in town - they are newer and may be willing to give me a lower price on the complete build if they have a spring sale on 2010 models. I was surprised to note that their fitting fee ($200), is good for the life of the bike - so if you use their professional fitting services and problems develop later, or changes are needed due to upgrades/whatever, there is no additional charge. For a small store that specializes in mountain biking, they have two fitters, one is female. This is the same store I visited yesterday to see the LHT.

All of this is certainly a learning experience! Ok, back to drooling over the beautiful new bikes in the new edition of Bicycling :p
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New information - I just spoke with that other LBS, and while their March sale is just on 2009 models that are left, they include the full lifetime of the bike $200 professional fitting (for free) in with the sale of each bike. This other store is looking better all of the time... The LBS I have dealt with throws in a quick basic fitting for free, if you get it within 4 weeks of purchase.

I have a 42cm Truckaccino LHT. I love the color. The other modifications that I have done is fenders, Books Flyer saddle, Salsa adjustable seat post, cycle computer, Surly Nice back rack and new tires. (I did not like the original tires on dirt and the original seat post was very difficult to adjust for Books saddle.)

-Sue

I'm coming into the bar discussion a little late, took the weekend off to go on a bike ride. :rolleyes:

My sister bought a Complete LHT two summers ago and the bars that were stock on hers were totally different than my stock bar and were in my opinion, my sisters opinion and the bike shops opinion ( Free Range) not good bars. The only thing my sister changed at purchase was the seat and bars. Of course she has done some cosmetic pimping in the two years since! :p

In regards to the other changes, I put close to 7000 miles on my LHT before all the upgrades. The stock components may not be top of the line, but they will last you a good long while. bikerHen

bikerHen - congrats on being able to go riding this weekend :D Do you remember what bars came on hers? I am wondering if Surly has since changed that - my size takes smaller bars than what comes on most of the LHT - just the compact size of the same model.

I AM trying to find out what the weight of the 42 and 46 cm bikes are - my car rack sits pretty high on my Lancer and am trying to figure out if I need to do extra strength training to hoist the LHT on it :p

If you can lift your hybrid onto the rack, you'll be able to lift your LHT.

My steel Surly is definitely lighter than my aluminum hybrid.

ETA: the LHT frame weighs around five pounds. What you put ON the frame has more to do with the weight.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

If you can lift your hybrid onto the rack, you'll be able to lift your LHT.

My steel Surly is definitely lighter than my aluminum hybrid.

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Cool, that is good to know - I think my 7.6 is something like 24 pounds? I had just assumed that the steel bike would be heavier.

Has anyone with an LHT tried the stock saddle? Though I must admit that the one I saw on the 56cm frame didn't look comfortable at all...

I've only tried the stock saddle in a short test ride, so can't really comment.

However I have read on oodles of Surly forum posts that they are pretty ordinary - its like they put a really basic saddle on with the knowledge that everyone is going to switch it out for their preferred saddle. Being built for long hauls, saddle comfort is paramount!

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Originally Posted by Tiddle

I've only tried the stock saddle in a short test ride, so can't really comment.

However I have read on oodles of Surly forum posts that they are pretty ordinary - its like they put a really basic saddle on with the knowledge that everyone is going to switch it out for their preferred saddle. Being built for long hauls, saddle comfort is paramount!

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I never even tried the stock saddle - before it left the shop the first time it was sporting a nice Brooks B-17 saddle.

Regarding the weight question I asked earlier in this thread some time ago - my LHT is noticeably lighter than my aluminum with carbon fork Trek 7.6 FX wsd bike. That was a surprise!

Lighter than a trek FX ....YAY that's good news

I've just ordered a Cross Check to replace my trek 7.3 FX, relieved to hear it will be a bit lighter. (Might start a new thread on this so I don't hijack this one)

I talked DH out of buying a roof rack cause I didn't think I'd be able to lift the steel that high. Have you tried lifting it up onto the rack yet, or above your head?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiddle

Lighter than a trek FX ....YAY that's good news

I've just ordered a Cross Check to replace my trek 7.3 FX, relieved to hear it will be a bit lighter. (Might start a new thread on this so I don't hijack this one)

I talked DH out of buying a roof rack cause I didn't think I'd be able to lift the steel that high. Have you tried lifting it up onto the rack yet, or above your head?

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If you look at my photo here of my "matching" car and bike, you will note that the trunk is quite high - at least for someone who is 5'3 in her stocking feet:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...t=37052&page=3 and scroll down the page.

My Trek 7.6 is quite the chore to get it up on the rack, and it isn't just due to the sloping top tube, the weight plays a role as well. My all-steel Surly Long Haul Trucker is quite noticeably lighter and takes much less effort to get it on my rack. That doesn't mean that the Trek weighs 30 pounds or anything, I think it is in the low-20 pound range.

The LHT LOOKS smaller than the Trek, unless they are standing side by side - they are close to the same length and it is only the different geometry and the smaller wheels of the Surly that makes it look smaller. It really isn't though, outside of the 26-inch wheels. Eventually I will be adding fenders and racks to the LHT (the fenders will come in a couple of weeks) and it will be interesting to see what that does to the weight.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

My Trek 7.6 is quite the chore to get it up on the rack, and it isn't just due to the sloping top tube, the weight plays a role as well.

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I ended up getting a bolt on top / cross bar to mount my Trek on the rack because of its sloping TT (and it saves the nice paint work too!)

Thanks for the link. Your car and LHT were meant to be together!

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Originally Posted by Tiddle

I ended up getting a bolt on top / cross bar to mount my Trek on the rack because of its sloping TT (and it saves the nice paint work too!)

Thanks for the link. Your car and LHT were meant to be together!

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I think so too!

I got the cross-bar that clamps on my bike made by Saris and it actually doesn't make it much easier - I still have to struggle to get one side of the bike on the rack because of that TT - there just isn't much room between the cross-bar and the TT.

What size is your Trek? I wonder if this is because mine is so small - it is the smallest 7.6 they make.