Maybe, but I'm sick of the Girl = baby Pink thing. Ick ick ick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckervill
Whoever invented the boy = blue, girl = pink should be slapped up-side the head as far as I'm concerned. Give me blue over pink any day! :p
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Maybe, but I'm sick of the Girl = baby Pink thing. Ick ick ick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckervill
Whoever invented the boy = blue, girl = pink should be slapped up-side the head as far as I'm concerned. Give me blue over pink any day! :p
Welcome!
I don't really have a specific question, but just wanted to say that I ride both a Myka Elite and a Dolce Triple, and love them. I feel like Specialized really undestands WSD. So...keep up the good work! I was so excited to see the 2010 models.
OK I'll bite. I just ordered a Dolce Comp. What color water bottle cages should I get? (I haven't seen the bike yet... but want to get a head start on the accessories.)
@EdenQuote:
Originally Posted by Eden
My dealer says he can deliver me a 44cm S-Works Amira frameset by November. Apparently, it is the lightest frame in Spesh's lineup, and since their lightest Tarmac is out of the box at 13.9, it should be something. But yeah, it's a compact.
@Smilingcat
Arundel carbon sideloading cages are very secure. If you would like to try them out, I have an extra pair you can borrow. But I agree, since Spec offers some of the smallest size frames, they could have thought about the cages more. (I also have an extra 143 Ruby saddle).
Comments/questions...
• No pinky flowery stuff for me. I would go custom before I rode something stereotypically "girly"
• Spec's clothing line is not up to the quality of their bikes. Designs are uninspring and seem tailored towards casual riders. No BIB shorts for women? Come on...
• As much as I like the patented BB on my S-Works Ruby, I wish they would make it a standard BB30 so I can use other cranksets with gluing in a sleeve. The S-Works chainrings don't work with Campy chains as well as the FSA and SRAM cranksets on my other bikes.
• I was interested in the integrated Ruby Barmac... Until I found out that is was actually heavier than my Ruby handlebar-stem combo. That seems counterproductive. Will this be improved, or will the Barmac be continued as a blingy novelty?
• After countless saddle/handlebar changes, all of my bikes now have Ruby SL saddles and Ruby 38cm carbon bars. Your products rock.
•
Hey Everybody,
First off, thank you all for the questions and comments, they are so insightful. I have only answered a handful of the questions and we are going to answer the rest of them with a video reply from Eron Chorney, our women's brand manager. I really appreciate how thorough all the feedback has been as well as all the comments on product and colors and graphics. We will post it up on here by the middle of this week and will include answers to saddle questions, road bikes, bottle cages and colors and graphics. Thanks again!
Rachael
Yeah, but their Enduro short rocks. It is the only mtb short with decent length inseam and back seat seam -- and fits me without resorting to a stupid and unflattering elastic waistband. I have found no other short that fits the bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluetree
Now, if Specialized would allow mail order so I could buy from TE and sell the shell and inner liner separately, I'd be a happy camper. I'm paying $120 for a shell and storing the liner on the shelf because, as usual, the liner and the shell aren't sized the same. How about 60 bucks for each?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
Youtube shows Robin Moore and one of the videos shows that he is from Santa Cruz. Voila! Google is your friend. Perhaps Bike Snob should try it. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by rlambert
http://www.robinmooreproductions.com/Home.html
It's not just Specialized. This seems to plague most women's mtb shorts. They're often silly short, or the inner liner is terrible. The only decent mtb short I've found is the Sugoi Gusta, but the liner is so-so (for me), and it's hard to justify $120 for the outer short alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieKate
You can buy lycra shorts in different lengths, why not mtb shorts?
Ladies,
I'd like to chime in here to discuss the general theme of this thread.
Jeff & I have been talking about this thread in some detail and are quite conflicted about it. On the one hand, our mission is to advance women's cycling and part of the way to do that is to have great discussions like this one regarding what kinds of products do and don't work for us as cyclists, specifically as female cyclists. On the other hand, we do not permit commercial posts on this forum. While being helpful, Rachel is clearly "on company time" with a goal to actively promote Specialized products and services, talking about producing videos, etc. I think this potentially violates the "no advertising" rules. We have other industry folks on this list who are active participants sharing their knowledge without crossing the line into commercialism.
I don't think we want the forums to turn into a market research / marketing vehicle for every cycling company out there. If we permit threads such as this, where do we draw the line? We are receiving PMs from people who feel the line *has* been crossed here and we need to be sensitive to that.
This is a community, so we want to hear from YOU about how you feel on this subject. I'll ask that you keep it civil. :-) No final decisions have been made, so please let us know what you think. Thanks ladies!
Susan
I agree with you. If I could mailorder Specialized products from you, I'd would be sitting on the fence. But since Specialized has weird marketing rules, well, I'm on your side o' the fence.
It has bothered me from the onset and I've read the thread with an odd fascination.
If Rachel was a participant, it wouldn't bother me. If she was here answering questions as well as participating, it wouldn't bother me.
But in response to questions people have taken the time to place, we learn the answers will be on a different site. That isn't in the spirit of the site. In fact, I'd go so far as to ask how it is different from gavin_m?
It doesn't bother me one bit and oddly, I am surprised that this bothered so many people.
I don't feel strongly about it in either direction.
I was hoping that Specialized would use this as a way to do more market research than to push their products. So far, that's the vibe I'm getting, and I'm ok with that. I think that getting some answers to questions is a bonus. I like Specialized products, but I wouldn't mind if another company took this approach. For example, I think it'd be great if Trek people came here and said, I've searched this board and found that a lot of you can't stand our Bontrager saddles; we've been working hard on them, but we'd like some more feedback and questions from you on our women's line.
psst Bluetree, you can use a standard BB30 crank on a specialized frame. Any sleeve insert would adapt it to for an English or Italian external BB. While Specialized says their oversized BB isn't "exactly" a BB30, I've seen plenty of SRAM Red BB30 cranks, SRMs and the like work just fine on Specialized bikes, because people often want to swap out the cranks on a complete team bike or whatever because early generation Sworks cranks got a pretty bad rap, or because they want to use an SRM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluetree
I used to work in the bike industry and I am respectful of what special website we have here.
Personally while I was working there all I did here was to read the discussions and occassionally pass on comments to other people in the company which I thought was helpful. It wasn't until after I left that I joined and started participating.
Unfortunately I do believe Rachel and Co has probably crossed the line in the sense they are using this site for free to gain market research etc and traffic from it to their site (and that is what you pay online ads to do). This site is unique and cool because TE hasn't used it as a way to generate extra funds by allowing advertising throughout this forum.
And its not like Rachel is from a start up company that needs help, Specialized can afford market research and does so by their women's travelling roadshows etc.
I like how this is a neutral space where we can discuss everything. As others mentioned I think it would be OK for Rachel to paricipate on this forum as a woman rider and not with her Specialized marketing hat on.
Inserting a sleeve for a BB30 isn't a big issue for me. But a couple of mechanic-friends have told me was a PITA it is to remove a glued sleeve from an S-Works frame. Since an aftermarket S-works crankset has little resale value, I'd like to put it back on the bike if/when I flip it for another model. My gripe is mainly that I wished Spec would conform with the BB30, which is rapidly becoming industry standard. Same with their distinct bolt pattern that won't let me use different rings. Its like Pinarello and their weirdly sized seatposts... I keep thinking "why?"Quote:
Originally Posted by aicabsolut
(Keep in mind that I have the same non-conformity complaints about Internet browsers and clothing dress sizes) ;)
I'm with Thorn.
Several of us have invited Rachel to become part of this community. Now, I don't read every single thread, but at this point I don't know anything about Rachel except for the cursory (and, I thought, a little testy) intro she posted in this thread.
If she'd spent enough time here to know something about this community, she'd have an idea of how we value this space. And that we appreciate TE on many levels - for hosting this space, for their great selection of products, for their terrific customer service, and for keeping their advertising unintrusive here.
I don't think Rachel should be banned (not at this point, anyhow). But if she doesn't want to be respectful of TE as a commercial enterprise, and of this community, then I don't know that she has much of value to offer us.
But it is a BB30. You can use any BB30 crank on the frame. It's just a pain to use a non-BB30 crank (like English or Italian threaded BB) b/c you'd have to install the threaded sleeve.
Do you mean the BCD isn't the same on the rings/cranks? Like it wouldn't take FSA or Shimano rings?
I'm with Thorn & Oakleaf.
Susan - I agree with you. And I love the ongoing discussion about bottom brackets and compatibility too - this is just like a family holiday dinner, with multiple conversations going on at once. tokie
This thread seems to have gone in several different directions, but I just wanted to add my comments about the color choices on WSD bikes - I agree with several of the previous posts about not liking the obviously "girly" color schemes (esp. pink) - probably a visceral reaction from childhood experiences. Aside from that, I think the practical consideration of resale value is also important (probably harder to sell a pink bike). I realize you can't please everyone, but my main complaint is that many of the bikes (especially higher-end) only come in one color. If I don't like that color, I won't buy it. I am very particular about the colors I will buy. I'd like to add that I do like the subtle monochromatic patterns (e.g. "Tribal") on some of the new Specialized 2010 WSD bikes.
Now for my last LBS bike color experience: I was shopping for a higher-end Specialized MTB a few years back and politely asked the sales manager if the model I was looking at came in any other color. He stared at me and replied: "Guys don't care." !!!?? Needless to say I bought my bike elsewhere.
(re. rlambert's participation - OK by me, though I am new here.)
After looking at this all, I have to agree with Susan. While the powers that be here are very patient, I think we all forget what this website and forum are. I didn't realize that TE doesn't sell Specialized products (at least I don't think so?) and using this forum doesn't appear to be 100% ethical.
I have nothing against Rachel or Specialized and I understand why the TE message boards would be a prime group of people to contact. I also think it was pushing boundaries, a bit.
While I understand Susan's point, I think its a bit late to get the horses back in the barn. We all already know Rachel is with Specialized so she will be forever peppered with "why can't Specialized do..." type questions.
I don't believe she should be banned or anything - she's female and a cyclist for pete's sake.
Perhaps Rachel (sorry - didn't mean to speak as though you weren't in the room), you should simply come as a participant and leave the corporate out of it. You can still take things you observe back to your development team, but avoid those pesky lines of demarcation.
As for the rest of us, lets try to not get Rachel in any more hot water. If you have a Specialized specific question, PM it to her.
Remember - she like each of us, has something to share AS a cyclist - that's if she still wants to play with us.
my 2 cents - spazzdog
Just to be clear - I'm not suggesting this.Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdog
What we're trying to gain is some clarity on where to draw the line on the type of participation permitted by forum members who have a clear commercial interest at stake.
We are very grateful to all of you who are willing to share your thoughts here. Jeff & I have also been receiving PMs on the subject, and are carefully considering all of your comments. Thank you so much for letting us know what you think!
Susan
PS, everyone who is poo-pooing the pink stuff, I will gladly take it off your hands.
-- gnat!
In response to the growing concern that the administrator and others have for my participation on this forum, I will discontinue this thread and use of the forum. While it is true that I am participating in the forum as a Specialized employee, I believe that as an avid cyclist who works for a bicycle company I am always representing my company whether out on the trails or on a forum and thought that full disclosure of the company I represent would be more truthful.
I have read and gleaned a lot from these forums over the past year and have noticed a lot of questions about cycling/products/riding , but I was hesitant to jump in and participate as I am not normally an active forum user. However, I thought the opportunity to open a discussion with full disclosure about who I was would encourage a dialogue about what women want from a cycling company and what they aren’t getting. It is true that I have used this for research and to encourage people to participate in our Facebook page but mostly the research has been to benefit women’s products and development by learning what you truly want and need from cycling products and also for you to learn a little bit about the women behind the product.
In no posting on this thread have I pushed a product or our brand but wanted to participate in this dialogue with everybody knowing who I was and what I was trying to do. I apologize to any who have been offended by this or made uncomfortable, it was never my goal. On a side note, I have received many personal messages asking questions, looking for information and giving fantastic feedback. Thank you to all of you who sent those messages.
Thank you,
Rachael
Being a commuter/touring/everything*but*mountain rider, Specialized isn't marketing to me, anyway ... if I were Rachel (or rather, if my psyche were absorbed into Rachel's being at this time) I'd lurk and read. *I* would probably yield to the temptation to post as an alias to participate as a cyclist ;)
Personally, I didn't mind the post or the link, but then thought about "what if all the industry sites did that?" and then thought "hmmm.... and maybe that would be a good thing?" and then thought "welp, they could have their own forum section." I would, of course, *love* the chance to spew my opinions at People from the Industry.
Dang, we ran off a good one!
Karen
Yeah, and that sucks, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckervill
The intent was not to "run her off" and I'm very sorry that Rachael chose to interpret it that way. I believe my posts have been quite clear about the question we are asking.
Big picture - we'd still like to have the discussion about how to handle commercial interests on the forum, and continue to collect your feedback. As always, thanks so much for your input!
Susan
It was totally Rachel's decision not to participate anymore. We just didn't make it easy on her to transition to a regular gal. I'm just acknowledging our part in it.
Karen
A suggestion to toss into the community popcorn popper...
Perhaps TE could create a section on the forums for bike makers, equipment makers, etc and invite them to post research/development/consumer interest type threads. It's not "advertising" in the strictest sense of the word and it would put the manufacturers right here in the playpen... and put TE even more out there as a way fabulous site.
Just an idear...
spazz
Spazz, that's a possibility. Not bad.
However, what makes me uncomfortable is that Specialized does not allow mail order of their accessories. It doesn't seem fair for Susan to pay for market research for companies whose products she cannot sell.
Sidi wants to ask us how to make their shoes better? Go for it. Specialized? No. Tit for tat.
I know that leaves a gray area of companies whose products she may choose not to sell, but I haven't solved that one yet.
Specialized tends to take a heavyhanded approach with their dealers also. Maybe Rachel can read this part of the thread and take it back to management, not that they'll listen.
Actaully, you can mail-order specialized stuff. You just have to do it direct (no dealers)
I agree w/you, SK.Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieKate
I don't think Rachael was "run off" the forum. She chose to no longer post, which is probably appropriate. She can easily do market research by lurking.
That's my point. I can't buy Specialized items from Susan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredwina
I get the "no mail order" thing, but we all discuss products all the time that aren't purchasable here at TE. And, when we can, TE is a "preferred" point-of-purchase.
I'm thinking more around TE being the "bigger" person here (not that I think it isn't). I personally tout TE as the "everything-cycling-for-women place to hang out" as I'm sure many others do.
If it was also a place where cycle-centric companies could come and NOT market (without paying for an ad or letting TE sell their stuff) but do research about what women want or need, I think it would bring nothing but more kudos and good press to TE... why because every dealer that really wants to know what we think would be wise to post a link to the TE forums on their FB or Twitter or MySpace.
spazz
Hi Spazz,Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdog
I like that idea -- in fact, Susan and I have been discussing doing something similar - a closed forum (only moderators can post to) that manufacturers can request to be listed in, showing their contact info, and what kind of feedback they're looking for from our community.
I'd ask for a "real live human" contact name at each company, with a direct line phone number and/or email/webform/survey where people could provide them with feedback and suggestions.
Sure, we discuss stuff all the time that we can't buy from TE, but this is a lot different than the manufacturer soliciting product advice for nothing.
It just doesn't sit well with me.