Venting - way OT & alittle wordy....

OK. Here's my tuppenceworth from the UK.

As a child, I was taught very quickly how to behave, especially in public. Mum (or Dad) would warn me once, warn me a second time to behave and the third time I got a smack (same applied to my brother). Neither of us have ever been in any trouble of any kind. The thing was, we were taught right from wrong, sometimes we got smacked but we had two loving parents who always made time for us, which must have been difficult for them as they had their own shop and worked long hours, also they had me quite late on in life. My brother is six years old than I am.

By saying that, Dad would take us to school in the mornings, pick us up at lunchtime, Mum would be home with lunch waiting for us (my Aunt used to work in the shop too - she and my Uncle sadly weren't blessed with children), then Dad would take us back to school and pick us up when school finished. We were taught to respect other people and their property. Even at school, if we stepped out of line we got our hands belted with a strap called a Tawse. It hurt at the time, but taught us a lesson and there was very little trouble at school.

When my kids came along, I brought them up the same way, to know right from wrong and respect other people and their property. My daughter once played me up in a store really badly, so I spanked her there and then. She never did it again. One time when we were in a restaurant (she was about 6 years old at the time), as we were about to leave, the manageress came over with a bag of sweets for my daughter and complimented us on how well-behaved she was. My daughter was, of course, delighted with the sweets (candies I think you call them). Now she's a Mum herself, she and her husband are bringing my grandson up the same way - to know right from wrong. She's a stay-at-home Mum because she believes that's where Mum's should be especially when the kiddies are little (grandson's 9 months old:D )

There are too many parents nowadays who really couldn't care less what their kids get up to. We see a lot of that where I live. Three year olds shouting and cursing and use "F" and "C" words and the parents (or parent) just look on and don't pull them up for it, or the parent(s) are so drunk or drugged up, they don't even know what planet they're on, never mind their kids:mad:

I don't know what it's like over the pond, but we have an awful lot of schoolgirl pregnancies here. There has been far too much foisted on kids by the media, the liberal elite with their "don't discipline your kids" and the European Human Rights Act which virtually makes hooligans untouchable - and they know it.

Kids do need discipline, but it also needs to be tempered with a lot of love and patience, something that's sadly lacking for many kids nowadays:(

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Originally Posted by Python

There are too many parents nowadays who really couldn't care less what their kids get up to. We see a lot of that where I live. Three year olds shouting and cursing and use "F" and "C" words and the parents (or parent) just look on and don't pull them up for it, or the parent(s) are so drunk or drugged up, they don't even know what planet they're on, never mind their kids:mad:
:(

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OR THE PARENTS THINK IT IS CUTE!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

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Originally Posted by CyclChyk

Why do parents let their kids play/run/ride

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Personally, I think they should be nailed to the floor indoors.

No, I don't have kids - but I do have a hammer and nails........have I gone too far????:D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Bruno28

Personally, I think they should be nailed to the floor indoors.

No, I don't have kids - but I do have a hammer and nails........have I gone too far????:D :D :D

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**snort**

just a bit.....:p

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Originally Posted by Bruno28

Personally, I think they should be nailed to the floor indoors.

No, I don't have kids - but I do have a hammer and nails........have I gone too far????:D :D :D

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Reminds me of a joke.

Kid: "Mommy, mommy why do I keep running around in circles?"
Mom: "Shut up or I'll nail your other foot to the floor."

[If that was in poor taste, I'll slink off to the corner and laugh quietly. I do have children, now grown, and I've never used nails on them.]

www.stophitting.com
Unconditional Parenting: Moving from Rewards and Punishment to Love and Reason
http://www.naturalchild.org/

I don't believe in coddling, spoiling, back-talk, disrespect, running in the aisles, riding on the wrong side of the bike lane, or lack of discipline. I also don't believe adults always have it all together and I believe that children are one of the last classes of people that it's okay to disrespect, discriminate against and despise. I also do not believe in spanking/smacking/hitting/beating/corporal punishment.

My oldest child is 24, my youngest 12. Between the two, I evolved from a traditional, mainstream, spanking parent, to a non-spanking, child respecting, autonomy-granting one. The results have been the same--happy, healthy, responsible adults or near adults, with one glaring exception. My youngest son can never look back at his life and say I broke his trust by hitting him, and my oldest son can. That is something I will always regret.

My views now are very non-mainstream, and I have a rebuttal to almost every post in this thread, many of those rebuttals were developed and clarified through internet boards such as this one and reading up on the subject over the last 11 years. Since I've already BTDT, I won't debate them again. But I hope the links will help someone else see their children in a different way.

Karen

Not at all (to the hammer and nails)! Bring 'em outdoors also -- at least sometimes. Hubby and I stop for dinner after our evening rides and sit outside. For some reason, the parents seem to think that sitting outdoors gives their children free rein to charge in and out of the fenced area, play on the fountain, trample the landscaping and play chase. Last week, Bubba finally gave up and yelled at a kid who was walking though the carefully landscaped petunias to get to the water in a fountain on top of a raised bed. It gets tougher and tougher to have a nice civilized meal in public. Restaurants have become awash in kids who think the world is McDonald's play land or older girls' butt cracks and thongs. Sigh.

Okay, I am a mom of 4 kids, so I'm feeling the need to interject my opinion into a thread that seems to be dominated by non-parents. :)

I think someone else may have already made this point, but please realize that no one, no parent, no child is perfect. I understand the frustration with parents who don't mind their children. I get frustrated, too, sometimes. I hate it when my kids whine. They get reprimanded if they do it, and they usually don't, but since they lack the self-control skills of adults, sometimes they do whine.

I would dearly love to be able to leave the store when one of my kids decides to go postal in the produce section, but, most of the time, I have no recourse to take them home and come back and finish my shopping. Who will stay with them? What will we eat if I don't finish my grocery shopping? I imagine the same people who sneer at me as I try, while incredibly embarrassed, to get finished with upset children in tow, are the same ones who would sneer at me if I took those same kids to McDonald's in order to feed them because I couldn't finish my grocery shopping because of people sneering at me. ;)

We all have to share this world, and teaching my children that other people are precious and important is an ongoing lesson in our house. We're trying. Please be patient. We're not all finished yet.

First let me say that, however irritated I might become personally when kids go postal in my vicinity, I highly admire parents who steadfastly keep their cool, don't lash out, don't scream back, just calmly continue to say "No, you can't have a candy bar now" or whatever, and finish their shopping.

Second let me say that I do NOT have the same admiration for parents who let their kids do something truly dangerous, like playing in the street, without intervening.

Third, just to show how charming kids can be, here's the story my youngest (23) told when we came to his place for waffles this evening. As we arrived, he was putting away some gardening equipment -- mower, rake, and a wheelbarrow full of windfall apples. He said the neighborhood kids, on their way past, had asked him "Could we taste your apples?" Well, he's only renting, and had no intention of cooking up a tree-full of apples, so he said they could go ahead. They each took an apple or two, called out how tasty they were, and the littlest one trailing behind the others as they left said "Tusen takk for eplene!" (Thousand thanks for the apples). See how sweet kids can be?

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Originally Posted by jobob

Well, I've been offended by unruly kids and parents who won't do anything about them, so we can call it even. :D

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Agree w/Veronica and Jo.

I believe that being a parent is the most important job in the world. Unfortunately, I see first hand the results of "having kids" and not "raising" them. I live in the land of "overprivileged" children who are endlessly indulged (materialistic) and told how they are not to blame for their bad behavior.

I don't think anyone is criticizing TE's moms, who no doubt are excellent parents.

My parents would have NEVER let us behave in an unruly manner, no matter what kind of day they or we were having. If we acted up, we knew there were consequences (a spanking). Therefore, we did not act up. My mom had FOUR (4) kids, and she was ill the entire time I was growing up. Regardless, she taught us manners and common courtesy.

There's a difference between spanking and beating a kid. Spanking definitely served as a deterrent in my family.

While I don't like when kids are running wild and endangering themselves or others, I do recognize the difference between a parent who is embarassed or at least attempting control, and one who doesn't care.

Before I pass judgement and offer up the 'glares' that some of the mom's here are referring to, I always survey the parents as well as the kids. A mom who is clearly exasperated, doing her best, and at least trying to make peace absolutely does deserve our sympathy. A parent who is completely ignoring the situation (or even making it worse) does not. There is a difference.

Honestly (yes, I know it's not the same thing), as a pet owner, I'd expect the same courtesy. I have two young dogs/puppies that occasionally become a handful. Before some passerby tears into me about a barking dog, I'd appreciate if they noticed that I'm attempting to rectify the situation.

Common courtesy...all around...it goes a long way.

Thank you for posting this Tuckervill. Unfortunately, I doubt that many people will read the links, but at least it's out there.

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

www.stophitting.com
Unconditional Parenting: Moving from Rewards and Punishment to Love and Reason
http://www.naturalchild.org/

I don't believe in coddling, spoiling, back-talk, disrespect, running in the aisles, riding on the wrong side of the bike lane, or lack of discipline. I also don't believe adults always have it all together and I believe that children are one of the last classes of people that it's okay to disrespect, discriminate against and despise. I also do not believe in spanking/smacking/hitting/beating/corporal punishment.

My oldest child is 24, my youngest 12. Between the two, I evolved from a traditional, mainstream, spanking parent, to a non-spanking, child respecting, autonomy-granting one. The results have been the same--happy, healthy, responsible adults or near adults, with one glaring exception. My youngest son can never look back at his life and say I broke his trust by hitting him, and my oldest son can. That is something I will always regret.

My views now are very non-mainstream, and I have a rebuttal to almost every post in this thread, many of those rebuttals were developed and clarified through internet boards such as this one and reading up on the subject over the last 11 years. Since I've already BTDT, I won't debate them again. But I hope the links will help someone else see their children in a different way.

Karen

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Let me say, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and their own ideas on how to raise children. The ways to raise them are as diverse as the society we live in. Does the way you raise your child make the way I raise mine wrong. No it does not. Our job as parents is to give our children the life skills they will need to go out into society and become healty, productive adult members.
I do not take my child out of the store when he doesn't get his way, because I don't believe it is okay for him to be able to disrupt the things I need to do or get done by his actions. When he was small, he had a fit, it happened twice I think. I told him I would not tolerate it and I would leave him sitting if he wanted to continue, he continued and as he did, I went around the corner peeking back at him to watch him. When he looked up and I was gone, well, he stopped quickly. When he called for me I was there. He quickly learned that I would continue what I needed to do regardless if he was having a fit or not. I think he was 2 or 3. He is 11 and he still tries my patience in the store at times, but he doesn't yell or scream or throw fits. He has gotten his share of spankings, but it is not given for every thing he does. He has gotten soap in his mouth plenty of times for a curse word or back talk. He doesn't do that very often either. I don't think it really matters what you do for punishment as long as it is consistant and as long as it is just, and most of all as long as they know you love them. I cannot remember the last time I had to spank my child, or put soap in his mouth. He is not perfect by any means, he does get fussed at quite at bit at times. He is well behaved in school and so far makes straight A's, the teachers don't have problems from him, and if they do, it is handled quickly with a required apology to the teacher. He is well behaved when we go to dinner or the movies or what have you. Perfect, far from it, but neither am I. He knows my expectations and he knows when he has pushed to far and is about to get the rath of mom.
Kids will never stop trying to push to see where the line is. We were all kids once too, we remember the things we tried to get away with. We aren't all that old. We all know that we only continued to try to get away with things, sometimes we did, but most times we didn't.
My problem is with parents that don't seem to care, and where I live, I see a lot of it. I see children 3 or 4 outside with no fence, playing by themselves.
I see children who are allowed to be disrespectful, or rude, and then when I see their parents I know why. Children are not the culprits as much as parents are. Children are only doing as much or little as their parents allow. I know that there are always exceptions to the rule. There are some great parents out there that have tried everything and still seem to have troubles with their children. I see many more parents that have no business having children that have these great kids. For the most part though, children are a reflection of their parents.

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Originally Posted by GLC1968

Before I pass judgement and offer up the 'glares' that some of the mom's here are referring to, I always survey the parents as well as the kids. A mom who is clearly exasperated, doing her best, and at least trying to make peace absolutely does deserve our sympathy. A parent who is completely ignoring the situation (or even making it worse) does not. There is a difference.

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Dog yes! Many times I've seen the "oh please someone take me away" look from an exhausted mom or dad. They usually give me a look of "I'm so sorry you have to witness this" I completely understand those times. What most of us are horrified by (imho), are the parents that stand there while "little devil child" throws him or herself around; and does nothing or close to nothing. I'm sorry, once a child is in total meltdown, telling them "You are making mommy sad" isn't going to do a darn bit of good.

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Originally Posted by DDH

When he was small, he had a fit, it happened twice I think. I told him I would not tolerate it and I would leave him sitting if he wanted to continue, he continued and as he did, I went around the corner peeking back at him to watch him. When he looked up and I was gone, well, he stopped quickly. When he called for me I was there

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This is something my sister did too! Once she even got in the car and left! (Don't freak, she really just moved to where she could keep an eye on nephew, and he was probably 8 or 9)

Please don't think I hate kids - they are wonderful little creatures. They entertain me when I am eating dinner out alone. That is,once mom or dad realizes I'm not going to get miffed because junior is singing a song or wants to show me a picture they drew. (Yay for family friendly restaurants that supply crayons)

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Originally Posted by DDH

My problem is with parents that don't seem to care, and where I live, I see a lot of it. I see children 3 or 4 outside with no fence, playing by themselves.
I see children who are allowed to be disrespectful, or rude, and then when I see their parents I know why. Children are not the culprits as much as parents are. Children are only doing as much or little as their parents allow. I know that there are always exceptions to the rule. There are some great parents out there that have tried everything and still seem to have troubles with their children. I see many more parents that have no business having children that have these great kids. For the most part though, children are a reflection of their parents.

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Absolutely! In our street a couple of years ago, we had the family from hell. The eldest was accused several times of interfering with younger children but was never prosecuted because of lack of evidence, he also had a fight with his father and pushed his father down the stairs causing brain-damage - his mother refused to tell the police what her son had done (Mummy's little darling couldn't do any wrong) so the police couldn't arrest him for attempted murder and she and her husband subsequently split up, the middle son took a delight in terrifying the elderly and infirm in our street, setting the beautiful woodland behind our houses on fire killing many small animals, vandalising cars (including £1400 of damage to mine) and people's homes. The youngest, a girl, was as bad as her brother and had a mouth like a sewer. The cause? Their mother. From the time they were born she let them get their own way in everything. If they did wrong at school, she went to the school and caused more trouble. Eventually, all three of them were expelled from school and sent to a special school for problem children.

Eventually, the eldest thankfully moved in with a girlfriend and away from our street. However, the other two continued to wreak havoc on our street - one time watched by their mother - who did - nothing! By this time the whole street had had enough. Most of us are Council tenants but some own their houses privately. We formed a Residents Association and several of us installed CCTV cameras. I don't know how people deal with this type of problem in the States, but we needed to actually prove that it was these two and their friends causing the damage. Didn't take long. The upshot was the whole family were evicted from their house for anti-social behaviour.

Since then, we have heard that the youngest got pregnant (she was 14) and had an abortion. The middle son became a drug addict and because of it he had a stroke and was confined to a wheelchair for some time. He is only 19 years old. I have heard he has recently got married so the whole circle will probably start all over again.

Both parents, but particularly the mother has failed these children miserably. Seemingly, the father would attempt to discipline the kids, either by smacking them or stopping their priviledges, but the mother would intervene and contradict anything he said. It was a no-win situation, especially for the kids.

If the mother had smacked them when they were young or instilled discipline in them by stopping their priviledges etc., then they might have had a future as decent young adults. As it is, all of them suffered, especially the kids, but also the mother as she lost her husband and even yet, people see her in town and point the finger at her.

Very sad.

Ok so I'm gonna have to go back and finish reading all the posts as when I got to the bottom of page 2 I wanted to respond to so many of you.

First I would like to say that I agree that its best I stick with dogs. I have. I'm 38 and will never have kids. Not that I don't like kids, persay. There are some that are so cute I just want to eat them up! That is for the first 10 minutes. After that, I've had enough. Go back to momma now, I'm not a kid person. Which is kinda ironic because kids typically love me. I used to teach daycare. I babysat for YEARS. But..... I have dogs and they stay in my fenced yard and I do not impose them on anyone. (Oh, and TREK, I have a neighbor who has two boys that throw rocks and sticks at my dogs! Has been doing it for over a year and the parents won't do a thing!! I'm thinking pellet gun??) :eek: :eek: Just kidding...... or am I? :D

And I did say that maybe I should be annoyed with the parents. Kids, after all, learn from example. And I certainly feel for the parent who is really good at being a parent, and their kid has just had a bad day. I can relate. I have bad days. But in my defense, I don't play in the road and neglect to get out of traffics way.

And I totally AGREE that kids should be allowed to be kids and let loose. But not when it puts themselves or others in harms way. Such as on a bike path where the parent just lets the kid run willy-nilly.

And as far as stores goes.... I HATE GROCERY SHOPPING! So realize the world revolves around me and shut your screaming kid up!! :eek: :D

d Oh and one more thing...

What the heck is up with the stupid parents that has a kid who is crying their eyes out (nails on a chalk board but my heart breaks when I hear it). I mean really, do you honestly think that hitting them and shouting "I told you to shut up or we are going home RIGHT NOW!" is gonna make them shut up??? I don't know about you guys but I think it would make me cry more............. And they know you aren't gonna take them home!

DramaDramaDrama

Geez......
p.s. Brandy - something tells me you are one of the good moms. :)

p.s.s. Kitsune - very well said!

p.s.s.s. Python & Salsabike - I like your thought process

I could go on but this is getting wordy again....

Really, honestly, I don't think any of the women here are the sorts to "never say no" etc. Biking etc are sports of discipline, and a woman with discipline tends to pass it on, consciously or not, to her kids.

(There were a bunch of things I was going to add to this thread as I thought about it today.)

I guess the 1st is that some kids really need special attention. I think most parents do the best they can with what they know- the trouble is, too many parents are kids themselves. It's a pity that biology makes it harder for people in their mid to late 30s to have kids, because I think by then you have a better idea of what's going on than in your 20s. This is mostly wishful thinking, though. My little sister had the same sort of parenting early on that I did. I was a sensitive kid and took a lot of things to heart. Mom needed just give me *the look* and I'd stop, and feel *bad*. My sis, on the other hand, was eventually diagnosed with "ODD" (Oppositional Defiance Disorder). Spanking did nothing, Verbal repremands did nothing, time-outs did nothing. It makes me sad to say that when I told my dad that I was upset because she got away with far more than I ever could, he told me "That's because we still have expectations for you." :eek: :eek: :eek: But I know they did the best they could.

The 2nd is that maybe I came off as harsh saying "Don't teach your kids with guilt". Honestly, I'm pretty sure that kits are ego-centrically minded until at least 8. The world revolves around them, and rightly so, because while they're busy developing and taking in all the new things around them, there's just too much to do to try to think about someone *else*, too, yet. Mindfulness of others comes into play later, when they begin to socially develop, and that can be anywhere from 8-12 (or later) (I think some people never get to that stage...)

3rd, Debw: It's called vasclip. and after living in all the little rural burbs I have, and hearing all the "She's a Sr. in high school and she and her BF had an accident, etc etc" stories I have... I'm SO with you on that.
Conservatives say "The government's trying to save people from themselves!"
...if people weren't so effing stupid, they wouldn't need saving.
and, fwiw, most of the kids who had accidents, that I know of, had strict 'family values'. the hippyish kids had already heard of the importance of b/c.:rolleyes:

Tuckervill, Brandy, just wanted to let you know I did go to the website Tucker posted. I read it, and like I said in my previous post, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just don't happen to agree.

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Originally Posted by DebW

Reminds me of a joke.

Kid: "Mommy, mommy why do I keep running around in circles?"
Mom: "Shut up or I'll nail your other foot to the floor."

[If that was in poor taste, I'll slink off to the corner and laugh quietly. I do have children, now grown, and I've never used nails on them.]

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Similar to
Kid: Mommy, Mommy, Why's daddy running so fast?"
Mom: "Shut up and hand me a few more rounds; the clip's empty."

...Definately belongs in the "Good Wife's Guide" humor thread, though...

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Originally Posted by Kitsune06

Similar to
Kid: Mommy, Mommy, Why's daddy running so fast?"
Mom: "Shut up and hand me a few more rounds; the clip's empty."

...Definately belongs in the "Good Wife's Guide" humor thread, though...

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Now THATS what I'm talking about!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ryant/clap.gif

Thank you, Karen

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

www.stophitting.com
Unconditional Parenting: Moving from Rewards and Punishment to Love and Reason
http://www.naturalchild.org/

I don't believe in coddling, spoiling, back-talk, disrespect, running in the aisles, riding on the wrong side of the bike lane, or lack of discipline. I also don't believe adults always have it all together and I believe that children are one of the last classes of people that it's okay to disrespect, discriminate against and despise. I also do not believe in spanking/smacking/hitting/beating/corporal punishment.

My oldest child is 24, my youngest 12. Between the two, I evolved from a traditional, mainstream, spanking parent, to a non-spanking, child respecting, autonomy-granting one. The results have been the same--happy, healthy, responsible adults or near adults, with one glaring exception. My youngest son can never look back at his life and say I broke his trust by hitting him, and my oldest son can. That is something I will always regret.

My views now are very non-mainstream, and I have a rebuttal to almost every post in this thread, many of those rebuttals were developed and clarified through internet boards such as this one and reading up on the subject over the last 11 years. Since I've already BTDT, I won't debate them again. But I hope the links will help someone else see their children in a different way.

Karen

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I don't glare at parents when a child is being bratty and unruly in a grocery (or other) store - usually the look on their face tells me they are at their wits end and their child isn't listening and they really DO just want to get out in one piece.

I give the child a stare that would chill steam. On many MANY occasions, the child, who might be used to manipulating a parent, won't try the same to a strange adult. I've had lots of them cut the crap IMMEDIATELY. Yeah, they're probably scared. Or at least surprised.

When the child stops screaming (or whatever he/she was doing) I then smile. Doubtful they are traumatized for life.

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Tuckervill, Brandy, just wanted to let you know I did go to the website Tucker posted. I read it, and like I said in my previous post, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just don't happen to agree.

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But of course. :)

I do bear in mind that there are many people who read and don't post. Maybe one or two of them would appreciate an alternative point of view. We don't have to incinerate the board over it.

Karen

Tuckervill, I agree whole heartedly. I surly didn't mean that to be snotty if it came across that way. I was just wanting to let you know that I went there and read it. I have no problem looking into different ways to take care of issues with children. Ecspecially as they get older. Spankings are not something I do without consideration of other alternatives. It was rare that mine actually got one, and now that he is older, I look for other ways to punish. Taking privledges away works pretty well now. He loves his game box. LOL

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Originally Posted by Pascale

I give the child a stare that would chill steam. On many MANY occasions, the child, who might be used to manipulating a parent, won't try the same to a strange adult. I've had lots of them cut the crap IMMEDIATELY. Yeah, they're probably scared. Or at least surprised.

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I used to have a studio inside a professional office building/business park which had a lovely atrium garden and water fountain. The gardeners were out several times a week trying to keep it blooming and beautiful, always posting the "keep off" signs.

The thing was, many parents who came to do business in the building left their children alone, loose in the atrium. The kids would be climbing the trees, digging up the soil, tearing leaves off plants and climbing into the fountain, all the while screaming like banshees. One kid actually pulled up plants by the roots to throw at his sibling.

If I ran into the parents in the hallway, I'd have to tell them that the office building is not a playground. They'd look at me like they'd never heard of a professional environment.
If I had to go out and stop the children from tearing up the place, I'd put on my Stern Face, walk out there and say in my best scary Stern Voice: "STOP. NOW. YOU WILL BE QUIET." They'd get all google-eyed and stop.

It's not the kids I mind so much, it's their idiotic parents who tacitly give them permission to do so. BTW, the other tenants started calling me The Terminator.

I watched a programme on television a few years back when the anti-spanking brigade were being very vociferous. Parents generally fell into two categories:

Quiet Reasoners

and

Quick Belters

(of course, nowadays we have a third category of parent - couldn't-care-lessers)

Anyway, when a child is under 5, they haven't got the reasoning capability, so Mum or Dad explaining why they shouldn't be doing what they're doing doesn't work. A child of that age doesn't have a good enough grasp of language to understand a fraction of what is being said to them.

On the other hand, a quick slap on the bottom gets the message across and there's no doubt what it means - that is not acceptable behaviour!

On the few times I smacked my kids, I always followed it up with why I'd smacked them, especially once they could understand. There is a whole world of difference between smacking a child because you love them and want them to be well-behaved and grow into good, decent adults and battering kids for the hell of it. Unfortunately, the "don't smack your kids brigade" can't tell the difference between the two.

I don't know what it's like in the States, but since parents and schools basically had the right to smack and discipline kids taken away from them, the crime rate amongst youngsters has rocketed. It doesn't take much working out why.

As a tailpiece, here's a little story.

My cat had 5 kittens, and as kittens do, as they got older, they got more boisterous. Mum Puss (Topsy) was sitting curled up contentedly infront of the fire. Meanwhile the kittens were having a funny half-hour, chasing each other, shredding my legs etc. They then decided it would be great fun to pounce on Mum. First she gave them a filthy look, stood up, turned round and settled down again. They carried on pouncing on her. Then she turned round very fast and hissed and growled at them. Four out of the five took the hint - Mum didn't want to be annoyed. Topsy curled back down again, but I could see she was irritated by the way the tip of her tail kept flicking. One of the kittens, Poppy decided to push her luck and pounced on Mum's tail. With a loud hiss and a growl, Topsy gave Poppy such a smack round the head that she rolled half way across the living-room. She took the hint after that and left Mum alone. A little later, Mum and kittens were all curled up together purring:D

We got good homes for four of the kittens and kept Poppy. She and her Mum go out exploring together and where you see one, you always find the other.

Even animals discipline their young.

RESPECT
I think you need to teach this to children in the early years. Respect for other people, respect for others property, respect for the environment and respect for themselves.

All kids will play up at some time that is just life (Im not always well behaved myself and have been know to throw a hissy fit just ask my husband) but I do firmly believe you reap what you sow. If children understand from an early age what you expect from them life is much easier. I have friends who let their children jump up and down on the furniture, tear around the house , pull up plants from their garden and generally cause mayhem everywhere. Now this is ok at YOUR house but kids need to know the difference when they visit others. We dont jump on furniture at my house and my kids know this. They also know that mum loves gardening so they would never think its ok to pull out a plant in my garden because 1 its nature and 2 it would make mum very sad.

Kids I truly believe want to do the right thing, sometimes they are just lacking guidance.

Now as far as supermarkets go hmmm for most mums that one is fraught with danger.:D

Next time you see a mum looking stressed smile at her, sometimes its these little things that help mums get through a tough day.

I remember when I was little, if we went visiting, my Mum used to hiss at us "Now you be on your best behaviour...or else!" Both my brother and I knew what the or else was. We behaved:D

Oooh boy, I have had to securely lock my soap box in the closet for this one. I'll just let Tuckervill say it for me:

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I don't believe in coddling, spoiling, back-talk, disrespect, running in the aisles, riding on the wrong side of the bike lane, or lack of discipline. I also don't believe adults always have it all together and I believe that children are one of the last classes of people that it's okay to disrespect, discriminate against and despise. I also do not believe in spanking/smacking/hitting/beating/corporal punishment.

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Thanks for posting those links, Tuckervill.

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Originally Posted by Python

As a tailpiece, here's a little story.

My cat had 5 kittens, and as kittens do, as they got older, they got more boisterous. Mum Puss (Topsy) was sitting curled up contentedly infront of the fire. Meanwhile the kittens were having a funny half-hour, chasing each other, shredding my legs etc. They then decided it would be great fun to pounce on Mum. First she gave them a filthy look, stood up, turned round and settled down again. They carried on pouncing on her. Then she turned round very fast and hissed and growled at them. Four out of the five took the hint - Mum didn't want to be annoyed. Topsy curled back down again, but I could see she was irritated by the way the tip of her tail kept flicking. One of the kittens, Poppy decided to push her luck and pounced on Mum's tail. With a loud hiss and a growl, Topsy gave Poppy such a smack round the head that she rolled half way across the living-room. She took the hint after that and left Mum alone. A little later, Mum and kittens were all curled up together purring:D

We got good homes for four of the kittens and kept Poppy. She and her Mum go out exploring together and where you see one, you always find the other.

Even animals discipline their young.

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gosh, where were you when my cousin was doing her pathetic tender love thing with her monster children????

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Originally Posted by fixedgeargirl

Oooh boy, I have had to securely lock my soap box in the closet for this one. I'll just let Tuckervill say it for me:

Thanks for posting those links, Tuckervill.

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I wish that you wouldn't fixedgeargirl. We've certainly heard everyone else's opinion on this thread.

This is what I think... I takes a pretty special person to deal with those "unruley kids", but someone elses opinion of unruly could be another person opinion of behaving. I try to make a rule of thumb that every kid can be worst then the worst.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

Veronica - who did not laugh when the kid passed gas because she was doing read aloud and it was not appropriate.

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Oh liar liar pants (possibly quite literally) on fire.

:p

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Originally Posted by maillotpois

Oh liar liar pants (possibly quite literally) on fire.

:p

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I'm not fibbing. But I did deliberatly crack the class up saying fart several times.

Ohhhhh... and at back to school night, talking about family life (sex ed in our district) I said penis - in front of all those parents! :p Our sex ed curriculum is too explicit.

V.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

I'm not fibbing. But I did deliberatly crack the class up saying fart several times.

Ohhhhh... and at back to school night, talking about family life (sex ed in our district) I said penis - in front of all those parents! :p Our sex ed curriculum is too explicit.

V.

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At least you don't use "those fonts"..... do you? (We even heard about that in Hawaii!!)

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Originally Posted by maillotpois

At least you don't use "those fonts"..... do you? (We even heard about that in Hawaii!!)

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ok, I'm twisting my brain into little moebius strips trying to figure out what this means... plase explain? :o

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Originally Posted by Brandy

I wish that you wouldn't fixedgeargirl. We've certainly heard everyone else's opinion on this thread.

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Okay, here's a thought:

Why is it that an action, that if perpetrated against an adult stranger of any stature would result in criminal charges, is *okay* if perpetrated against someone 1/5th your size who trusts you completely and implicitly with their very survival?

Why is that a student who has attacked others with nails, not the fingernail kind, the hammering kind, punched a teacher and is verbally abusive to the entire class everyday, is allowed to stay in public school?

I honestly believe that most people who responded with ways to "dsicipline" were rather tongue in cheek.

V.

That sounds like a frightening situation, V., and I don't understand why the administration would allow someone like that in the school. At the root of it, I would suspect an abusive/neglectful home situation and/or sensory or developmental issues.

Tongue in cheek humor can mask a lot of buried pain and shame.