Giving roadies a bad rep

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Originally Posted by DeniseGoldberg

If I come up to that intersection I come to a complete stop. I do cross on the red, but only when there are no vehicles in sight coming from either direction (and the speed limit there is 50 mph, so I don't head across unless there are no vehicles in sight!). Unfortunately, I believe that if I didn't do that I would be standing there waiting to cross until a car came up to cross the intersection...

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Denise - I'm not sure about the rules in all states, but I recently took a bicycle safety class here in CA and was told that if a light won't change for a bicycle, it is considered defective and you can't be ticketed for going through it (if it's safe and there are no cars of course).

I obey all the traffic rules also, though do tend to commit a California stop in the stopsigns in subdivisions--I unclip though I may not put my foot down. In the same class mentioned above, our instructor, while not encouraging us to run the signs, pointed out that a lot of stopsigns, especially those on residential streets, are "political stopsigns" - the neighborhood felt cars were driving too fast and demanded a stop sign, when a yield sign would have been just as efficient. You just need to make sure you're ready to stop.

i hate when riders think organized ride means take the whole lane and then some...

EVERY ride i've ever done tells riders to follow the rules of the road and ride single file.... now i can understand riding 2 across WHEN IT'S SAFE TO DO! and when they still stay to the far right.... but there are always those that take the whole freakin' lane!

stagecoach back in january was like that... 3 or 4 riders would ride across the lane.... and block the cars behind them.... granted... it wasn't a busy road... but that doesn't give us riders the right to block it like that!

this past saturday at palomar... i noticed the same thing.... several riders riding across the whole lane! there were times i wanted to pass (ya.... go figure! me passing others instead of getting passed! but i digress!) anyways... they'd be riding in the middle of the lane or 2-3 of them spread across an i practically had to go in the oncoming lane to pass the jerks! :mad:

there was one point i was behind 2 guys riding down the middle of the lane completely ignoring the truck that came up behind them blowing its horn.... UGH!

as for stop signs.... if i can see there are no cars coming... i slow down a bit and look very carefully both ways! we only have 2 red lights in out town... and i rarely go by them... if if i do... yes i stop for them... cuz both are busy intersections!

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i hate when riders think organized ride means take the whole lane and then some...

EVERY ride i've ever done tells riders to follow the rules of the road and ride single file.... now i can understand riding 2 across WHEN IT'S SAFE TO DO! and when they still stay to the far right.... but there are always those that take the whole freakin' lane!

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When there is a road where there is only one-lane going each direction, riders should ride single file.

I really ticks me off when people in my group do not follow this rule.


When there is a road with 2+ lanes going each direction, the cyclist(s) should take and HOLD the right lane, by riding the middle, not single file or near the gutter.

Why? Because cars have a lane to pass on the left, and if you leave room for them to pass IN the lane you are in, they will do it. Even my best friend has done it to riders, because she needed to get home... to watch TV.

both rides in question.... the roads were 2 lane... one lane of traffic in each direction....

i have to disagree with the more than one lane thing though.... the highway that goes between our town and the next two desert towns and continues on "down the hill"... i would NEVER EVER dream of riding IN the righthand lane... which is what you propose... suggest.... IF i even ride on that road... i ride TO THE RIGHT and to the right of white shoulder marking line, if possible... AND every other rider i've seen on that road does the same!

the rules of the road (at least here in california...) don't say you can "take a whole lane" they say ride to the right as safe as practical or something to that effect....

laws/rules of the road must be different in texas than cali... cuz i've NEVER heard of taking the middle of the lane as being legal...?????? haven't read it here... or on other forums... of course... i'm open to reading it if you provide links! cuz gawd knows... i don't know ALL the rules... but i know "I'M" not riding down the middle of the road and getting myself killed!!!!!!!!!

Taking the lane is legal if it's safe and/or the right edge of the road is in horrible shape. There has been much debate in my cycling club about which is "safer" for all concerned--a long line of single file riders that cause a car to ride partially into the oncoming lane for a l-o-n-g time or a bunched up group in the confines of their lane that a car can pass more quickly, just as if they were passing a slow vehicle.

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Originally Posted by caligurl

both rides in question.... the roads were 2 lane... one lane of traffic in each direction....

i have to disagree with the more than one lane thing though.... the highway that goes between our town and the next two desert towns and continues on "down the hill"... i would NEVER EVER dream of riding IN the righthand lane... which is what you propose... suggest.... IF i even ride on that road... i ride TO THE RIGHT and to the right of white shoulder marking line, if possible... AND every other rider i've seen on that road does the same!

the rules of the road (at least here in california...) don't say you can "take a whole lane" they say ride to the right as safe as practical or something to that effect....

laws/rules of the road must be different in texas than cali... cuz i've NEVER heard of taking the middle of the lane as being legal...?????? haven't read it here... or on other forums... of course... i'm open to reading it if you provide links! cuz gawd knows... i don't know ALL the rules... but i know "I'M" not riding down the middle of the road and getting myself killed!!!!!!!!!

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OK, a Highway situation is DIFFERENT. My directions were for city streets with NO shoulder. I never ride on highways, and only did it during the MS150 both years, and I rode on the shoulder the whole way.

But, on city streets, where there are 2 lanes going the same direction, and cars can pass on the right safely in a full lane, then the rider in the right lane needs to HOLD HIS/HER lane. This is how I was taught.

Let's think about it... if we are like cars... would 2 cars share a lane? No. If there is a slow moving car in the right lane, cars go around in the left lane. They don't pass the car, in the right lane.

I also don't want to share a lane with a car, if the car has a full lane to pass me on the left side. It's just dangerous. If I am inches from the car and it hits a pothole, I could get knocked off my bike. Why risk my life, if they can pass me safely in the left lane? So, I ride in the middle and hold my lane. They can see me, don't try to share the lane with me, and can safely pass me in a full lane on my left side.

Then again, I typically ride in groups of 10-30 riders. We take a full lane. Sure, we should ride single file when there is one lane going one direction.. otherwise, we fill up the right lane. I have ridden alone on city streets only 5% of the time, and that's because I am inbetween groups.

I'm all for not getting in the way of cars and giving them the room to get on their way... I am also all for making sure I live.

I'm more with KSH on this argument. I much prefer to act like a vehicle and am allowed to. Many places in the city I can ride at or near the the speed of traffic and much prefer to assert my right to be on the road. It is unpleasant to have a car squeeze by when they could wait for a few seconds or use the other lane on a two lane road (and in fact illegal for them to do - they are supposed to leave us 3 to 5 feet! of space when passing in this state). Even if the road has a shoulder and you are riding to the right of the white line drivers should still be giving you a lot of space, which they usually do not. Plus, the shoulders are often filled with potholes and debris and bike lanes are often dangerous - being directly in the door zone of parked cars. We have the choice of deciding where we ride and we ride where we feel safest. Does it mean that we are intentionally snotty and blocking traffic all of the time - of course not. We generally ride single file and as far right as is safe, but there are certainly many situations that we use the rights that we have. I'm pretty sure I've never had a 5 car backup behind me - which is the point at which no matter what type of slow vehicle you are operating, horse buggy, bike, RV, whatever, you are supposed to pull over to let the backup pass.


RCW 46.61.770
Riding on roadways and bicycle paths.


(1) Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place shall ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is safe except as may be appropriate while preparing to make or while making turning movements, or while overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway or highway other than a limited-access highway, which roadway or highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near to the left side of the left through lane as is safe. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway may use the shoulder of the roadway or any specially designated bicycle lane if such exists.

(2) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.

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Originally Posted by Eden

I'm more with KSH on this argument. I much prefer to act like a vehicle and am allowed to. Many places in the city I can ride at or near the the speed of traffic and much prefer to assert my right to be on the road. I]

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I totally agree with you, Eden and KSH. There are many places where there are no bike lanes at all. It does not mean that we do not have rights. I am not voting for upsetting the drivers or being rude. But "share the road" means extactly that. I don't know how many times I get looks from the drivers because I am on the right side and they really need to pass, as if the world will be over. I had one driver following me and harrasing me at my house because i asked him to show the turn signal and he didn't at the stop sign. I was going uphill on a 9 mile hill on a very narrow bike lane and car were just honking. Although, I would never piss them off on purpose, I have no respect for this type of drivers and I will take my lane when I need to.

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Originally Posted by Eden

I'm more with KSH on this argument. I much prefer to act like a vehicle and am allowed to. ...

RCW 46.61.770
Riding on roadways and bicycle paths.

(1) Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place shall ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is safe except as may be appropriate while preparing to make or while making turning movements, or while overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway or highway other than a limited-access highway, which roadway or highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near to the left side of the left through lane as is safe. A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway may use the shoulder of the roadway or any specially designated bicycle lane if such exists.

(2) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.

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I agree with you and I also prefer to ride in the road - which the vehicle code clearly allows.

For anyone who is not familiar with the vehicle code in your state, I'd advise you to check on your state's code before assuming that the code Eden shows above applies to your state too. I live in Massachusetts where the vehicle code states: "Operators of bicycles shall be subject to the following regulations: 1. The operator shall ride single file on any way except when passing. ... "

Here's a link to a page that will give you easy access to the bicycle-related vehicle code within the US, plus a few links for other countries too: http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/bikelaw.htm

--- Denise

Absolutely - check your own state. The code I posted is for Washington. In Oregon you can get a ticket for not using bike lanes or paths when they are available. In Idaho you are allowed to only slow for stop signs (and I think even red lights) without stopping or putting a foot down. It can be significantly different depending on your area.

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Originally Posted by KSH

When there is a road with 2+ lanes going each direction, the cyclist(s) should take and HOLD the right lane, by riding the middle, not single file or near the gutter.

Why? Because cars have a lane to pass on the left, and if you leave room for them to pass IN the lane you are in, they will do it. Even my best friend has done it to riders, because she needed to get home... to watch TV.

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Ok, so how about this situation:

The two lane road with a good shoulder I was riding on turned into 2 lanes in each direction. I continued to stay on the shoulder, until the point that another lane came in on the right that was the merge lane to enter/exit a highway I was crossing over. In this case I had no option but to take up the entire center lane. However at one point there were so many cars merging in and out my lane trying to get on or off the highway ramp that i considered moving into the left lane.

Needless to say, I was so scared of all the cars merging in and out that I nearly pooped my pants. On the plus side, I hit my new top speed. But I just wasn't sure what to do in this situation...take up the whole lane and pray the merging cars don't hit me or move to the left lane...

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Originally Posted by CycleChic06

Ok, so how about this situation:

The two lane road with a good shoulder I was riding on turned into 2 lanes in each direction. I continued to stay on the shoulder, until the point that another lane came in on the right that was the merge lane to enter/exit a highway I was crossing over. In this case I had no option but to take up the entire center lane. However at one point there were so many cars merging in and out my lane trying to get on or off the highway ramp that i considered moving into the left lane.

Needless to say, I was so scared of all the cars merging in and out that I nearly pooped my pants. On the plus side, I hit my new top speed. But I just wasn't sure what to do in this situation...take up the whole lane and pray the merging cars don't hit me or move to the left lane...

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That sound scary!

I can honestly say that I haven't been in a situation like that before!

I think in the end, we all need to make decisions on the road that preserve our lives. Sometimes those decisions might be lawful, and sometimes not.

In the end, I'm all about staying alive... and if a cop wants to ticket me for holding my lane, when cars can pass on the left in their own lane... then so be it. A ticket is worth my life....because I don't trust drivers not to pass within inches of me, if they are trying to share the right lane with me.

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Originally Posted by CycleChic06

Ok, so how about this situation:

Needless to say, I was so scared of all the cars merging in and out that I nearly pooped my pants. On the plus side, I hit my new top speed. But I just wasn't sure what to do in this situation...take up the whole lane and pray the merging cars don't hit me or move to the left lane...

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This is actually the most stressful part of my commute to work. I have to get into the left lane to turn left. there are all these people trying to go around me. Somehow they all seem to appear just as i need to get over into the left lane. Scares ME to death because i also have to take my hand off the handlebars to signal my turn!!!!:eek:

WHether or not it is legal to take a lane (NOT on a highway--many highways don't even allow bikes on the shoulder) is totally dictated by local and state vehicle codes.

I know that oregon and california do allow it (and could get you the statute ## if anyone wants--they're on the SF Bike coalition and BTA websites), but not every state is the same here. So, if you're in a different state, you should probably check it out.

That said, i usually take as much of the lane as i feel is safe, on surface streets. SOmetime safer to take the lane (and not get doored), sometimes better to hug the curb.

I often feel that if i stand out some, i will be better seen than if i'm hiding in the shadows. I've never (knock on wood) been hit by a car because i'm in the lane, but i have been both doored and turned into by a car turning right and a car turning left during my urban biking over the years. I think if i was more in the lane, in each instance, i would have avoided contact with those cars.

We have many stretches of road where it's one lane on each side - and miles of open, flat road. 8 of us two abreast get passed just as a car would - there's oodles of visibility.
When folks treat the roads closer into town the same way, though, I get off the group and take my part of my lane.
It's "scarier" but around here, too, taking more of the lane works better. I think of when I was learning to drive, and I was sure that every car was going to hit me (merge onto the interstate? AARGH~... now of course it's nothing!).

It's tough, htough, when the drivers aren't educated (and/or the facilities are set up to be confusing). We've got a road with a bike lane - that ducks off the road for stretches. Unfortunately, one of the places where it cuts off is right before the intersection where I have to turn left. SO yesterday I was approaching the intersection, and behind me the clump of cars from the previous intersection's light was approaching... but I had room to cut across the two lanes into the left turn lane, though not by too much.
Unfortunately, the very sight of me leaving the bike lane and entering traffic inspired a driver to lay on his/her horn. While I was reasonably certain it was simply an expression of indignance (it's amazing how emotions can be conveyed), it still caused me to pause, so instead I had to be in traffic while they all went by, and then move left. (Fortunately, it's just one clump with a huge gap between, so I didn't have to be all assertive and try to merge across through traffic. I'm not quite at that level of comfort... yet?...)
It's one of those cases where *no* path would be better - the drivers would be less inclined to be indignant about "idiot cyclists who don't use the bike path." (If I were to stick to the path, then I'd be 'way off to the right, intending to go left; even doing it like a pedestrian isn't particularly visible or safe.)
IT almost made me forget about being at the light at the corner of DUncan & Kirby and noticing a car out of the corner of my eye to my right, and just scooting a little more towards the center, and hearing a polite, "Thank you," as the young male was able to make the right turn on red.
And just found out this morning that one of my students' husband was killed Saturday in a cycling accident, but I know *no* details about it.