parenting dilemma

Do little boys still wear full suits these days to Sunday School??? I don't recall this at all for even church that was across the street from the house where I grew up as a teenager.

It's summer time (why would a jacket be necessary), so the boy's dress pants and a nice shirt with a fun patterned tie would be nice. The girl is very young..:) I'm certain there will be girls in frivolous, nearly party-like dresses too.

I have to disagree with kathyville...the concern about her gender identity is not necessary at this stage. Too early. It's us adults imposing our lens on the situation.

I wouldn't worry about her at this age, either. My daughter is 16 and is still more of a tom boy, but I took her out to lunch today and she wore a cute little mini skirt. I'd have had to drag her kicking and screaming to get her in a dress or skirt at 6. She used to tell me that she wanted to be a boy when she was smaller. Now, she's happy to be a girl and has boyfriends, etc (and I know she likes boys right now as I'm rather open and she knows I would not be disappointed in her if she preferred girls).

What all of that long winded nonsense is saying - let her wear her suit. If anyone asks, smile and say, "Oh, it's the latest fashion." And let it go at that. I'll bet she looks adorable. When she starts to notice boys as boys and not playmates, she just may want to wear a dress now and again. If not, that's okay too.

I too disagree about the gender identity question. If girls wish they were boys, it's often for "good" reasons such as "the boys get to have all the fun". And then there are the truly trans-gendered. Those (few) I know claim they were trans-gendered from birth or even before, nothing to do with not feeling loved or not identifying with this or that parent. Sounds like your daughter is a happy, confident child who knows she's loved and who enjoys your company. That's a good, healthy basis whatever gender identity she discovers or develops as she grows up.

K..I wanted to be a boy back in jr high as I hated home ec etc :mad: UGH. It wasn't fair, i wanted to do the IR class in gr 7 & 8 not just 1/2 of gr 9.

I'd let a kid wear what they wanted. They're kids..Parents are the ones who have the horrible misconceptions in thier heads & need to stick thier heads in the sand.

GAGH

I say let her wear the suit. You already made the decision when you let her go into the boys' department and choose it. To not let her wear it would undermine her confidence in your support. If there is flack, which I highly doubt, then you can let her know that you believe in her and think she looks very cute in the outfit she picked out.

Now for a slight hijack of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Duck on Wheels

A friend of mine, when preparing for her dissertation defense, was instructed to wear "a tuxedo or the equivalent" (unisex instructions based on decades of almost only men taking PhDs). She went with the tux, a tight-waisted one that fit her figure... .

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Where did your friend defend her thesis? When my husband went to his thesis defense (U. of Wis-Madison) he did wear a tie, but no coat. In fact, none of the profs wore jackets. Was that just because it was the late 60's, or a funky department (zoology), or a Land Grant school?

When my son was kindergarten-age (he's 21 now), he was very proud to try to pick out clothes for a special occasion. I think it was more because he just did something a "big boy" would do - he did more than just pick out what pants and shirt/shorts he'd wear for play or school - it was for something special.

Has your daughter tried on any dresses? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with pants - girls wear them, both little girls and us bigger (and much older!) girls. I just wonder if maybe she was doing what she thought was expected of her, because she usually wears boys clothes?

I wouldn't be too worried - it's kindergarten graduation. It's special, but it's not as big of a deal as high school graduation. I think my son had a kindergarten graduation - ? He was in ECSE at that age, so it was all a little different anyway. But I'm like you, Iris, I would have been expecting a girl like your daughter to choose khakis and a nice shirt. If anything concerned me, it would be more that she'd overdressed a bit, but I doubt that's the case.

When my son was that age, we always gave him a little extra guidance when it came to how to dress for special occasions. There's nothing wrong with that. They don't know what to expect or what's socially acceptable. Sometimes wearing certain types of clothes in certain situations is about showing respect, and that's an important lesson for a child, too.

But again, I think she'll be fine.

Deb

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Originally Posted by shootingstar

I have to disagree with kathyville...the concern about her gender identity is not necessary at this stage. Too early. It's us adults imposing our lens on the situation.

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There is no kathyville here, but I assume you're referring to me.

I stand by the ideas in my post. I believe they would be helpful for both a mother and daughter in that situation.

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Originally Posted by newfsmith

Now for a slight hijack of the thread.

Where did your friend defend her thesis? When my husband went to his thesis defense (U. of Wis-Madison) he did wear a tie, but no coat. In fact, none of the profs wore jackets. Was that just because it was the late 60's, or a funky department (zoology), or a Land Grant school?

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Our department (Geology, CU Boulder) definitely doesn't due tuxes either. Appropriate business attire yes, but not formal attire. Heck, some people give keynote addresses in jeans and a t-shirt at the conferences I go to, so a tux would be way way way overdressed.

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Originally Posted by kathybiker

I'd be wondering whether I might change her desire to be a boy, not out of discomfort with what anybody else thinks, but because I'd like her to accept her gender and have the most access to positive choices in her life.

It's easy to accept the idea, "I am a girl," because it is simple and true. It is harder to accept the statement, "I am a girl who wants to be a boy," or "I am a woman who wants to be a man," because both of these involve painful contradictions.

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Kathy biker, I wonder if you have had children. You can't CHANGE their desires.
Not to be boys or girls or wear the color green. You can change their behavior, to a degree, but their desires? please, don't make me laugh!
I raised two sons and one liked to dress like a dandy and the other didn't care. There was nothing I could do to change that, not all the cajoling in the world.
When I was a little girl, in the worst way I wanted high top boys's sneakers. I saw a picture in a book of a little girl wearing them. I didn't get a pair of my own until i was 30. And I probably DID want to be a boy somewhere back there when I was little and the boys were throwing rocks at me and the girls were playing dumb games. And no one CHANGED my desires, I grew out of them.
If the kid wants to wear a suit, she'll look cool and cute and dressy, and she might never want to again, or she will.
One of the best things about being a girl is that it is acceptable for girls to wear boy's clothes AND girl's clothes.

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Kathy biker, I wonder if you have had children. You can't CHANGE their desires.
Not to be boys or girls or wear the color green. You can change their behavior, to a degree, but their desires? please, don't make me laugh!

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Your sarcasm is not one of your admirable traits.

If my little girl seriously wanted to be a boy, yes, I as a parent would wonder whether I could change that desire. My focus would be on on getting me to be different.

I would ask myself whether her desire was growing out of a lack of support on my part. Perhaps if this was so, and I was more there for her, she would change her desire to be a gender which she is not.

As I said in my original post, I see nothing wrong with a girl being a tomboy.

Do you stand by your child and face the world together?

Or do push her behind your back (turn your back on her), and face the world for her?

You see that she is old enough to choose her own clothes for her own graduation, and that she is happy with her choice. Where do you stand?

I go along with letting her wear it.
With my daughter, when I know she's headed for a situation where she may face some social backlash, we talk about it beforehand so that she's prepared with some answers. We do this because defending herself is something that my daughter likes to do, but not on the spot. So, if this were happening in my house, she'd pick out the outfit and after getting excited with her about the ceremony and the nice new outfit, I'd ask her if she ever gets comments from kids at school about how she doesn't wear the same kinds of clothes that a lot of the other girls seem to like. I'd go from there. If she said that she did get comments, I'd ask her how she responds, or if there's something she'd like to say but hasn't, and then help her find an easy way to say what she wants to say that doesn't use too many words or start an argument. She might be young enough now that it goes over a lot of heads, but maybe not. Either way, your non-judgmental support is probably going to be really important to her in both the respect you give her in her own choices and personality, and as a buffer to those who ridicule. Thanks for letting her choose!

Thanks every one for the opinions. She is going to wear what she wants...the pants suit with a vest and tie. I will smile and be proud of her.

Funny, questioning her sexuality (or gender identity) didn't really enter into my mind. I don't think she sees it as a sexuality issue at all. If the time comes in her life that she is evaluating those things, we'll support her and love her for who she is.

I had a great conversation with the TA in the room, to get a feel for how things might go. She told me not to worry. My DD is actually quite well liked in her class and the school in general, and she thinks it has a lot to do with that she palys with both boys/girls equally. She said that through out the entire year of DD wearing only "boy clothes" none of the kids (or parents) have cared or commented, so she saw no reason to think it might be different at graduation.

I have mentioned to her occasionally, that if she ever chooses to try on something from the girls department, I would be okay with that. She says, "okay, but not today."

I was lucky Sidney didn't wear the rain boots she had insited on wearing all spring, and the furry backpack she wore as her 'stole' (back when 101 Dalmations was so very popular).

And honestly, she wanted to genuinely BE a dog at one point. I would have felt lucky if she had wanted to be a boy! No worries, she is a fairly well adjusted 15 year old now, who loves boys and reptiles.

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Originally Posted by newfsmith

I say let her wear the suit. You already made the decision when you let her go into the boys' department and choose it. To not let her wear it would undermine her confidence in your support. If there is flack, which I highly doubt, then you can let her know that you believe in her and think she looks very cute in the outfit she picked out.

Now for a slight hijack of the thread.



Where did your friend defend her thesis? When my husband went to his thesis defense (U. of Wis-Madison) he did wear a tie, but no coat. In fact, none of the profs wore jackets. Was that just because it was the late 60's, or a funky department (zoology), or a Land Grant school?

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Netherlands. Defending a dissertation is a BIG DEAL here in Europe, a multi-day rite of passage.