Difficult work conversations: a gender perspective

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What is professional in one industry is not in another. I work in a women dominated profession and I really can't think of a time when this has been an issue. We did, once interview a candidate for an assistant principal job. This woman, who was quite qualified, cried at the interview, sort of at the whole "passion" involved in working with kids. It was very uncomfortable for all of us. My boss told me she cried at the next interview, 1:1 with just the two of them.
I too, look at my boss as a role model. She is a passionate, professional who is a very nice person (but doesn't put up with any s***). I have never seen her cry, in 9 years. The only time I've seen colleagues cry has been in private conversations when they were frustrated about some situation with a kid, or more likely, a parent.

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Originally Posted by Queen

Unfortunately, in this society we suffer from paradigm paralysis, we're expected to emulate the dominant paradigm in the workplace even though it doesn't represent us.

It's time we start changing what is considered acceptable in the workplace. We're not robots and we're not men, when we are very angry or very hurt we cry, it's not good or bad, or unprofessional, or manipulative...it's just an expression of an emotion.

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Well said! I fervently agree that what's acceptable in the workplace must change. Not only aren't we men or robots, but the dominant, male-oriented ruthlessly-conquer-and-exploit model is what's got us headed for the fossil record.

But change agents are usually made to pay a high price by the defending power structure, and I don't know what to do about that. It feels hard to recommend to other women that they sacrifice their personal life goals and economic wellbeing in the service of a better world. Yet I'm not sure there's another choice.

There's a difference between tears & hysteria. What's the difference between emotional gestures of enthusiasm or disapproval or... it really is a cultural thing. Can a person cry and get the job done? I think sometimes...
There's a whole scientific side of it, too. For all that some of us can't help but cry, others can control it and use it... and I would suspect that some people can't help but feel extreme distraction and discomfort in the presence of tears, and others can.
I realized when I took a couple of courses in Fine Arts (how to do computer art - I'm still utterly left-brained ;) ) that heavens, those folks were just a whole lot more emotional. (No, I have no idea if that applies to FIne ARts in general or just those folks, but I did find myself saying "well, d'uh!") It was definitely a different culture and you had to learn to work within it. I mean, if I were crying over something in a class ... welp, if I did that regular-like I'd figure that meant I should change my major... because that wouldn't be normal for me. For some folks, though, it's just part of the creative process.

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Originally Posted by tc1

Second, you can't cry. You just can't, not over work stuff. To avoid it, rehearse mentally beforehand. Tell yourself regarding the boss 'I don't care, you can't hurt me, your opinion doesn't matter, you are too dumb to get emotional about.' Think about the subject, when you get to the point in the exercise where you are going to cry, find something else to think about to stay on topic. Take a deep breath, or two, then keep going.

If you are sad over personal issues you don't have to be in such tight control. But if it just job stuff, don't give them the satisfaction of seeing they hurt you. Part of being in the workplace is appearing tough and in control.

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Well, gee, I sure am glad someone finally clued me in how to hold back the tears. How could I have possibly missed such an obvious trick all these years? Obviously my place is in the kitchen. I clearly don't belong in the workplace since I can't keep my emotions in control. (Sorry if the sarcasm isn't coming across clearly enough.)

To everyone else--I appreciate your supportive comments and feedback. I agree that it is the culture that should change to accomodate women, not women who should try to change to accomodate the workplace culture.

My husband points out I should add that I am not an excessively weepy or dramatic person.

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Originally Posted by Queen

Unfortunately, in this society we suffer from paradigm paralysis, we're expected to emulate the dominant paradigm in the workplace even though it doesn't represent us.

It's time we start changing what is considered acceptable in the workplace. We're not robots and we're not men, when we are very angry or very hurt we cry, it's not good or bad, or unprofessional, or manipulative...it's just an expression of an emotion.

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+1!

I have all sons, all brothers, and mostly male cousins. I am president of the youth baseball league which consists of mostly men. I was in the Army. I have lots of experience working exclusively with men.

It is my feeling that people who respond negatively to tears do so because they find them an insurmountable obstacle. It's not anything that they can control. Men don't seem to be in touch with what their reaction should be to someone crying. Crying serves some evoluntionary/societal purpose, but we seemed to have lost what it is and how it works.

I don't understand why, but I sure agree with you, Queen. It's not wrong to cry.

Karen

Melalvai, you come across campus to the Vet School and I'll beat you until you learn to be a cold hard BIT--!! (insert lots of sarcasm here).

I've had two workers who cry and it makes me uncomfortable but I deal with it as positive as I can. I'm pretty sure it's hard for me because my mother cries at the drop of a hat and for some reason I saw it as a sign of weakness in her. She used to call me cold and uncaring because I didnt' cry. Her constant criticism of my lack of emotions certainly didn't get the outcome she desired! It's easy for me to blame her but in all honesty I think I was born this way.

I've known you long enough to agree that you aren't sappy, you are just in a very stressful situation right now.

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Originally Posted by Geonz

I realized when I took a couple of courses in Fine Arts (how to do computer art - I'm still utterly left-brained ;) ) that heavens, those folks were just a whole lot more emotional. (No, I have no idea if that applies to FIne ARts in general or just those folks, but I did find myself saying "well, d'uh!") It was definitely a different culture and you had to learn to work within it. I mean, if I were crying over something in a class ... welp, if I did that regular-like I'd figure that meant I should change my major... because that wouldn't be normal for me. For some folks, though, it's just part of the creative process.

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What has been really interesting where I work now....are cultural differences in management style even just among men. Many Canadian supervisors at our construction site are just amazed how much mean hollering/yelling the German suvpervisors often rain upon the labourers and tradespeople to get things done. It has infuriated some guys who aren't accustomed to that type of domineering vs. more diplomatic management/supervision...that they go straight to HR dept. to complain.

Part of the problem as well is what a person's facial expression looks like when they are thinking in a concerned way or engrossed in thinking about a problem. I've had people mistaken it ..for me, being distant and cool when that wasn't my intent at all. :confused:

I think the range of opinions on this is more interesting than the original question. I am not a cold hard b****, and certainly not devoid of emotion. But, I've been told that I think like a man :eek:. I seem to be able to compartmentalize things so the emotion of one thing does not get in the way of another. I see it as being realistic and pragmatic. People think there's something wrong with me because I am not sitting around crying about Scott being in Iraq. Well, he's there, he chose his career, and he's happy. There is nothing I can do! He wouldn't want me to be morose and I have plenty of things to keep me busy until he safely returns. If something bad happens, I'll deal with it, but I can't live paralyzed by fear.
Of course, I was the mom who never felt guilty about working, either.

When I think back to being driven to tears, usually I'm angry and fustrated, and not knowing how do deal with either emotion. Growing up I wasn't allowed to yell back, or explain why I did whatever it was I was being blamed for. Tears pretty much made the torment go away.

I think I finally got over it at work when an acting supervisor took it upon himself to *counsel* me after a difficult public meeting I was in charge of. But the man couldn't express himself without cussing, meanwhile he's spouting how well educated he is (he has a PhD in Education!). I told him that if he's so well educated, why can't he express himself without cussing? And if he's going to swear, I'm leaving. That blew the wind out of his sails. I was still captive, but I tuned him out. Can't even remember if he had any salient points on how to deal with the difficult individual from the public meeting. The man *couseling* me had lost my respect.

I think those of us who cry when we're getting chewed out, do so because we've never learned how to handle the emotions of anger and fustration. Doesn't help that we feel powerless, which adds to the personal level of anger and fustration. Having someone tell you to let if flow like water off a duck's back doesn't help either. HOW do you not let it bother you??? I don't know the answer, but holding onto whatever morsel of control you have over your life seems to help.

I have dealt with a lot of emotional law students and both men and women cry. Men don't seem to apologize about it as much, in my experience. I would be taken aback a bit if a student wanted a witness - but I would probably allow it. It would make me more reserved. I would probably wonder why they needed a witness to meet with me and if they were trying to set up a witness for some further action to stop something they did not like. I understand that was not your intent - just throwing in another perspective. It does sound like you are in a difficult situation.

I would never use the term "witness" if I just wanted someone there with me for moral support. A support person, an interested party, a person who can help me explain my POV, an impartial observer. You could even bring in a sympathetic superior instead of a co-worker to help get it straight. Witness implies litigation! Though, sometimes litigation is necessary....

The last time I totally lost it at work was when my co-worker (he was in sales, I was in support and we worked together on the same accounts), whose wife's name was also Karen said to me, "It's like I have a work wife, and a home wife."

ARrrgghh..I still shudder when I think of it, 14 years later That just betrayed the general attitude that I had already suspected, and I was so angry I said through clenched teeth, "Don't you ever even THINK anything like that again, much less say that to me!" and the tears started to flow and I left and called my husband. I really hated that dude, and to make it worse he was creepy in a physical way, his appearance made my skin crawl. I didn't stay there that long after that.

Now I deal with upset guys all the time--coaches yelling at me at tournaments, and stuff, and I've learned that if I just stay calm and focus on what their real issue is, I can address their issue without emotion. I put my body between a coach and an umpire who were about to come to blows just last week. (They won't hit a grandma!) It really ticks them off that I stay calm. I usually get apologies all around. :)

Karen

[QUOTE=Tuckervill;314754]I would never use the term "witness" if I just wanted someone there with me for moral support. A support person, an interested party, a person who can help me explain my POV, an impartial observer. You could even bring in a sympathetic superior instead of a co-worker to help get it straight. Witness implies litigation! Though, sometimes litigation is necessary....



My use of the term witness is probably because 1. I am a lawyer and teach in a law school and 2. I would probably feel that is the reason the extra person was really there (see #1 again)and 3. due to my personality I can understand the desire for a witness more than a third party for support.

I am not saying that is why the extra person would be brought along - just that as a prof. - it would be my initial response. I might then feel I needed another faculty member to be there too.
I am certainly not saying it is why the initial poster wanted someone with them.

Does it matter if the prof.boss/mentor is a woman or a man? Do you feel in need of support in general or is the gender of the other person important?

"Well, gee, I sure am glad someone finally clued me in how to hold back the tears. How could I have possibly missed such an obvious trick all these years? Obviously my place is in the kitchen. I clearly don't belong in the workplace since I can't keep my emotions in control. (Sorry if the sarcasm isn't coming across clearly enough.)" quoted from post

OK, so I thought in your original post you were asking for suggestions. I never said being in control was easy, it takes a lot of forethought, concentration and mental preparation. I said, and am saying again, that mental rehearsal helps when you know a bad meeting is coming up. I never said, or implied, that you don't belong in the workplace.

I still think, from what I have seen in my job experience, that the truth as is usual lies somewhere in the middle. Women need to toughen up a bit, men need to be a little less tough.

I try to keep in mind that work is work; it's business, it's not personal. When things get frustrating, I remind myself of that, and that helps me keep my emotions under control. I have never cried at work, but that's not to say I haven't gone home afterwards and bawled my eyes out! :p

I have a co-worker who cries at everything. She simply can not handle even the most well-intentioned constructive criticism, however nicely it's put to her. I have even seen her do the hand-to-the-forehead-and-collapse-to-the-floor-in-distress routine. The rest of us literally step over or around her as we go about our jobs -- we don't even notice it anymore!

I used to be much more emotional, and didn't take criticism very well. It's hard to not take it very personal. Then Katrina hit. Work stuff doesn't bother me very much anymore. The only time I had trouble was the judges score I received on a re-creation of a 16th century fashion doll. THAT I put my heart and soul into, and their "Wow!" but..." remarks were a bit difficult to handle. (in case you're wondering, here's the doll http://home.earthlink.net/~bmccasland/index.html )

So I don't recommend being scared out of your life, watching everything you knew as *normal* turn totally upside down, knowing that life will never be the same again, as a way to learn to not take things so personal. But it does give one perspective :D:p:D

However, if work or significant other has little more to say but put-downs. "You're nothing without me." It's time to change horizons. Or let them move on without you. And don't let the door hit them out the way out.... :p