Anyone here know about vintage steel bikes?

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Originally Posted by kaian

It's a 10 speed so 2 X 5. Downtube shifters. The crankset is a Sugino - it's pretty cool looking. Derailleurs are Suntour Cyclones. 700c wheels that are made by Ukai. The brakes are Dia Compe, but they need some help.

I have a friend who thinks this will be easy to clean up and get in working order. He hasn't seen the bike, but just from my description, that's his take.

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Hoo baby! If you don't take this Miyata, can I have it? :D Others' comments about the DiaCompe brakes are valid; if you want to keep the bike close to original, try to find a set of Gran-Compe brakes. Made by DiaCompe, but MUCH better made.
By the sound of the component set, the frame may well be Ishiwata or Tange (formerly Champion) tubing.....probably butted. And man..SunTour Cyclone drivetrain???
The SunTour Cyclone (and Cyclone II) line was GREAT stuff....better than Shimano and as durable and functional as Simplex, Huret, and Campy.
If you have trouble reaching the brakes, you can try rotating the bars "forward", and moving the brakes up the curve of the bar until you find a comfortable spot. Or...a stem with a shorter reach.
For a little money, and assuming it can be adjusted to fit you well, this bike can be made into a real beaut. Good luck with it!!
Edit: don't forget to have the frame checked for internal rust. Light-to-moderate rust inside the frame tubes can be neutralized, then treated to help prevent further corrosion.

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Originally Posted by roguedog

Kaian, thanks for starting this thread. Didn't know there was a steel person here.

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Are you talking about me? DebW, woman of steel - sounds like a superhero.

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Originally Posted by roguedog

I have a friend who has a person come out to do mechanical work on their bikes and he's apparently pretty cheap.

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Now maybe that's my next occupation: DebW, the traveling steel bike doctor and cheap date. [Note that "date" refers to an appointment with a bicycle (either gender accepted).]

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Originally Posted by xeney

Wow, where are you all finding these old bikes with 700c wheels? Ours are all 27", with the exception of a couple from the 90s. I'm jealous, 700c are so much easier to find.

We are going to try to see if 700cs will work on my mixte (it's really just a matter of whether the brakes will reach) because otherwise I am going to have to order a custom wheelset.

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Or DebW, the mail order vintage wheelbuilder - send me your vintage hub and I'll add a new rim.

How would one check for internal rust??? Is there anything I can look for BEFORE I buy it that would tell me whether or not there is rust on the inside?

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Originally Posted by kaian

How would one check for internal rust??? Is there anything I can look for BEFORE I buy it that would tell me whether or not there is rust on the inside?

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The only easy thing I can think of is to pull out the seatpost and look in the seat tube. The area around the bottom bracket would be more telling, but not easy to get a peak into. A feel for the condition of the bottom bracket would be a clue. If the bb feels well greased and adjusted, then someone has probably taken care of it regularly, and a good grease job keeps water out. A bb is best felt without the crank arms on the spindle, but barring that, drop the chain off the inner chainring and give the crank a feel and a spin. Spinning freely and smoothly is good. Also try to wiggle the crank arms in directions other than around in circles - any unwanted movement here is bad. Oh, and ask the current owner if he rides in the rain.

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Originally Posted by DebW

The only easy thing I can think of is to pull out the seatpost and look in the seat tube. Oh, and ask the current owner if he rides in the rain.

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Exactly. Also check for external rust. Especially under the frame tubes, under the BB and chainstays. Check the steel parts of the components (cable clamp bolts, pivots, derailleur springs, brake springs, etc). Check the tiny holes on the inside of the chain and seat stays, and the fork (they are there to allow the frame to breathe; if they are blocked with grunge, any moisture trapped inside the frame can't evaporate and can cause problems)
Minor rust spots from small chips and scratches in the paint is usually nothing to worry about. Larger rusty areas, rust bubbles under the paint, and/or excessively corroded steel component parts can indicate the bike was used or stored in the rain and maybe not cared for as well as it should have been. That's when you want to pull the BB, fork, and have a better look inside.
Chances of major problems from rust is pretty low. I've rejected maybe two or three potential restoration frames in 30 years of restoring steel bikes. However, if you do buy the bike and it needs to be disassembled for cleaning and adjustment, you may wish to have the frame treated internally anyway. It's easy and cheap, if a little messy.

Well, I ended up buying the bike. I got it for $50! It does need some major cleaning and I will probably be taking the bike apart to look at everything. I'm already thinking of handle bar tap colors and matching the bottle cages. hahaha. I'm not even a girly-girl! hahaha.

So how would I treat the bike for rust - since I am taking it all apart? Popoki Nui, you mentioned it was cheap and easy?

There are some surface rust spots and spots where paint is missing. My friend who is helping says he has some ideas on how to deal with those things and that red is easy to match (for touch-up paint). He has restored bikes and cars, so I'm assuming he knows what he's talking about.

I am a grad student, so I am swamped with homework right now, so I probably won't be able to start working on the bike until after Nov. 1st. Perhaps I'll post some "before" pictures, so everyone can see!

Hi kaian: you can do this in a one-step (rustproof only), or two-step (neutralize and rustproof) process. You will need to get:
-duct tape
-rust neutralizer liquid (for the two-step process) Any automotive store should carry it. Look for names like Rust-Chek or Rust-Stop, etc. Get a can of liquid; spray cans won't really work here.
-a litre (or pint ) of boiled linseed oil. Any hardware store should have it. Alternately, you can buy any of several bike-specific frame treatment products like Frame-Savr etc. Linseed oil works as well and is usually much cheaper.

-When the front fork and BB, are removed, tape over all those openings completely with duct tape. Also tape over the hole in the chainstay bridge (the small tube connecting the chainstays right behind the BB)
-poke a few small holes in the duct tape at all those locations with a safety pin or something similar
-locate the tiny frame breather holes (usually on the inner side of the chain and seat stays near the rear dropouts, and at the top of the seat stays where they are brazed to the frame up near the seatpost). Carefully clean them out using the tip of a safety pin on thin piece of wire. Don't tape over them.
Two-step process (go to step 2 if you are only rustproofing, and not neutralizing as well):
1)- pour a litre (or pint) of rust neutralizer liquid into the seatpost opening and insert the seatpost back in and tighten the bolt. Then simply rotate the frame slowly by hand, end-over-end and side-over-side several times (slowly) to allow the neutralizer to reach and treat all the internal tubes and joints. Watch for the liquid seeping out the holes you poked in the duct tape, and the frame breather holes. This will help tell you when the liquid is getting to the right places.
-remove the seatpost, and allow all excess liquid to drain out. This may take a while. Rotate the frame occasionally.
-let the frame dry overnight in a warm location.

2)-remove the seatpost and pour a litre or pint of boiled linseed oil into the frame, insert the seatpost again, and use the same slow end-over-end and side-over-side procedure several times to coat all the internal surfaces and joints. This works best in a warm location. When you're sure you have coated all the internal surfaces, remove all the duct tape and drain the excess oil from the frame. Rotate end-over-end etc often until ALL excess oil has drained. Be patient. It may take several hours or even overnight for all the oil to drain out. Allow the frame to dry well. This can take a few days depending on the temperature. Rotate the frame occasionally.
-clean out those tiny seat and chainstay holes with a safety pin so the frame will breathe properly.
-wash all excess oil off the frame, and off the BB threads only, and you're ready to rebuild.
Good luck!

~Sherry.

Wow...thank you! :)

I will post some pics tomorrow so everyone can see what I'm working with. :)

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Originally Posted by kaian

Wow...thank you! :)

I will post some pics tomorrow so everyone can see what I'm working with. :)

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Yes please! :D
Take plenty of pics as you go through the overhaul process. They're fun to look at later!

Have fun with it!

~Sher.

Moved from another thread... Yeah. I'm saving my nickels and pennies, and the day I have my major debts paid off and can start on student loan debt (HA!) I'm going to invest in an older steel cx bike.
Sure new bikes are nice, but I dream of looking over a '70s Raleigh or Schwinn, running my fingers over little scratches from everyday use, feeling her take the pavement and paths with well-practiced grace and ride her the way she'd been waiting for. I'd assure her that her scuffs are the imperfections that create her perfection and uniqueness. She'd have a Brooks saddle, and I'd learn how to wrap and varnish her handlebars, just for her. A classic beauty, and she'd be mine.
*sigh*

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Originally Posted by Kitsune06

Moved from another thread... Yeah. I'm saving my nickels and pennies, and the day I have my major debts paid off and can start on student loan debt (HA!) I'm going to invest in an older steel cx bike.
Sure new bikes are nice, but I dream of looking over a '70s Raleigh or Schwinn, running my fingers over little scratches from everyday use, feeling her take the pavement and paths with well-practiced grace and ride her the way she'd been waiting for. I'd assure her that her scuffs are the imperfections that create her perfection and uniqueness. She'd have a Brooks saddle, and I'd learn how to wrap and varnish her handlebars, just for her. A classic beauty, and she'd be mine.
*sigh*

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Your DGF might be jealous if she read this, Kit. Go for the Rayleigh and I might be jealous too.

She's a hot '70s model, too. She'd understand. ;) Maybe.
I hope she never reads this all... just the same. :D

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Originally Posted by DebW

Post a picture so I can drool.

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Keep in mind, she is 12 years and 50,000 miles old. This is a custom bike. It is Reynolds steel & C-Chorus.

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Originally Posted by Dogmama

Keep in mind, she is 12 years and 50,000 miles old. This is a custom bike. It is Reynolds steel & C-Chorus.

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Wow. *wipes drool off keyboard* Was it custom made for you?

What do you call the headbadge/lug cutout?

Here are some pics of the Miyata 710 I just bought. I took a lot more pics than this for anyone who wants to see more close-ups of certain parts.

I'm trying to decide on handle bar tape and bottle cage colors - any suggestions? The logo is silver, so I thought about matching that, but not sure. I think I'm going to get some tires from Performance. I was thinking about some Continental Ultras because they have some for pretty cheap right now. Should I go with 23s or 25s for this bike?

I'll probably start working on the bike in about 2 weeks when I have more time. I'm planning on doing the anti internal rust thing and then also re-lubing the bottom bracket as well as doing a thorough cleaning and eventually getting rid of outer rust spots and paint chips (I'll need to find some touch-up paint). My experienced bike building friend said he thought the wheels felt solid and probably do not need new bearings at this point. After looking at it, he thinks the bike probably didn't get ridden a lot, but just sat around a lot. He also said that he doesn't think we'll need to replace the chain right off the bat if it's not skipping. ????

I'm new to this stuff, so if there are more great suggestions, please send them my way. I'd like other opinions besides the ones my friend is giving me. He has sort of an "old school" way of doing things, which is cool, but I'd like all kinds of perspectives. Thanks again!!!!