Unfairly target

I feel I am being targeted unfairly on this message board. I have never hid the fact that I work in a shop; however, my resent sale items have been removed. If the items were read thoroughly, one would realize they are all used.

I have many friends in the cycling community in St. Louis. They seek me out to assist them in selling their product since I have product knowledge. I receive no benefit from this other than helping a friend.

It would be unfortunate to lose a contributor to this board. I regularly point new female customers to this site. Why should I continue to do that?

Traci

I would hate to lose you as a forum contributor as well.
I know all these items are used, perhaps the owners will have to post them under their own user name.

Maybe take it up with admin?

I love seeing the bikes you sell :D

That's such a shame... I like recycling bikes ;) :p

Perhaps there was a miscommunication about the intent of what you were selling--that is is a favor for friends, not for your shop profit. :(

You should discuss this with the board administrator, and keep the matter private.

Pam

PamNY - I agree with attempting to deal with an administrator; however, I have tried that without success. I have answered their questions honestly, but someone still "complains" about my posts. I never hear back from the administrator when I reply to their requests.

I greatly appreciate everyone's support. That is one thing that I really enjoy about this message board. If someone has issues, is injured, sick, worried, everyone provides support.

I hope you can get things worked out. Buying a used bike was a great option for me, and I'm sure others welcome the opportunity as I did.

Pam

I'm of two minds.

I think the fact that I can find people on here selling a bike that might fit, is more likely to be designed for a woman, etc., is a a great, invaluable benefit. I bought a bike from someone on this forum, in fact.

On the other hand, I can see how TE might want to limit that kind of activity, since there are costs involved with running the forum, and it's kind of like freeloading to sell stuff here on their dime, so to speak.

It makes me think of Girl Scouts selling cookies in front of Wal-Mart. As long as the Girl Scouts aren't making a killing on cookies based on the Wal-Mart traffic walking past their table, it's fine. Most people who sell used stuff here are not making a killing--they are probably taking a loss.

I look at all of the posts bike4ever posts and it always looks like the pictures are taken in an apartment hallway, not a shop. I believe her when she says she's just a conduit for friends. Working in a shop, she probably has lots of friends with bikes.

Karen

I have no problem with your FS posts. We do have a FS section. If you weren't a regular contributor, it would be different, but you contribute your expertise, so I don't see what is wrong with your offering bikes for sale. I am sure many have benefited from your help in making these purchases.

Agree. The posts are always in the FS section. Never bothered me one iota. Seems like that's what that forum is for.

Have your friends register and post their own items for sale.

Maybe TE should start charging for ads, like Road Bike Review. I believe it's $2.00 per item or something like that.

I'm really uncomfortable with this being discussed publically here.

Pam is right, this is a matter to be worked out between the admins and the OP.

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Originally Posted by jobob

I'm really uncomfortable with this being discussed publically here.

Pam is right, this is a matter to be worked out between the admins and the OP.

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Yup. It's TE's decision how they run the board, not ours.

And it's not like they don't have a phone number so you can privately talk to them . . . . .

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Originally Posted by salsabike

Yup. It's TE's decision how they run the board, not ours.

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I agree. I think it is inappropriate to question the admins or to even bring this up on the forum.

Why would you threaten to leave the forum unless you are permitted to post these ads? I hope you decide to stay and continue to contribute.

Why don't your friends post the ads themselves? RunningMommy, who owns a store and likely has similar contacts, doesn't post ads for friends in her cycling community.

While others will post ads for their friends, it's infrequent.

I have nothing constructive to add here except that it seems panties have been wadded and knickers have been twisted.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_rOOaz85_Yp0/...irlpanties.bmp

Actually, SadieKate, they do have my phone number. I asked them to call me regarding this issue.

I've vented enough. Thanks for everyone's support.

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Originally Posted by bike4ever

Actually, SadieKate, they do have my phone number. I asked them to call me regarding this issue.

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Ah, so you picked up the phone and called them . . . privately. Gave them a chance to respond before going public????

... but it seems like this is what the internet is all about: democracy in action. She is exercising her voice and as long as TE doesn't start pulling her posts, it seems she is welcome to post whatever she likes in an effort to get to the bottom of why her FS posts are being pulled. Perhaps she is really trying to find who is 'compliaining' about her posts and explain to that individual that she is not selling from a store front. It's best to keep private matters private, but blogs and facebook and the internet in general are all about vomiting private matters for the world to see. She and everyone else in the thread have been respectful of both TE and the other posters (rare on the internet), and it seems like a fairly acceptable way to a) get the admin to reply to her concerns b) assure whomever is complaining about her FS listings that she isn't selling from a store front. Moreover, the suggestions here that she have her friends post their own FS items and TE charge for FS listings are not bad ones. ....just my unsolicited 2cents :o

The admin does own/oversee these forums. Why not? She pays a company to have all these forums on a server. Respect the boundaries. Freedom of expression also means respecting boundaries. One day if you run a biz and want to set up forums like this, things start looking real different from the other side.

I perceive TE forums as primarily community-building among women. If admin had a clear profit motive, she would have kicked folks like me off the forums a long time ago. I haven't bought anything from TE yet but nor have I sold any used/new stuff here either.

Come to think of it, why don't you just set up your own blog and start selling the stuff? But I guess, you might have to look at the rules for free blog set-ups too. :)

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Originally Posted by Andrea

I have nothing constructive to add here except that it seems panties have been wadded and knickers have been twisted.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_rOOaz85_Yp0/...irlpanties.bmp

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hahahahaha!!!! :D

Maybe I'm nuts, but this does sound commercial to me:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showp...48&postcount=7
I think those friends should all be selling off their own used bikes if they want to sell them here.
If you enjoy the TE forums aside from the 'for sale' ads issue, then you should stay even if you wind up being asked to stop selling other people's stuff here. I'm sure no one wants to see you leave altogether. Like most of us here, you can continue to contribute constructive and helpful input in the forum even without selling things.

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Originally Posted by ginny

... but it seems like this is what the internet is all about: democracy in action.

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:confused:

Excuse me, but this forum is a gift to us from the people at TeamEstrogen.com, and they have every right to determine what is and is not posted on this forum.

I'm amazed that people so easily lose sight of this simple little fact.

Jeff and Susan run this site on a very long leash - there are things that are posted here that would really piss me off were I in their shoes - and the least we can do is to respect their decisions on how and what is posted here.

And I think it is incredibly tacky that Bike4ever is trying to get other posters to feel sorry for her because she is not willing to abide by the decisions of the people who actually pay for this forum to exist and work to keep it running.

[QUOTE=jobob;410357]:confused:

I'm amazed that people so easily lose sight of this simple little fact.

but I actually said "the internet " and I didn't specifically say this forum. Nor did I say freedom of speech because when a forum is run by individuals, they do retain the right to censor what they wish. There is no freedom of speech. In that, I agree with you. What I am saying is, as long as they do not remove her posts from here, she is free to post what she wishes. They may exercise their rights of censorship in deleting this post if they wish.

Anyway, I did read the 'commercial looking' post, and I agree with you, but as long as TE doesn't delete this post, or any others, people may post what they wish. It doesn't mean it's 'right' or 'appropriate' - that's my point. And now, we are not talking about bikes at all... I'm done. Sorry to take this so off topic... (and apparently I haven't quite figured out the quote function here...)

I agree with you, ginny. Sure, TE operates these forums and sets the rules as to what is and is not appropriate. But . . . while some things may be unambiguously prohibited, there is necessarily a fuzzy--and pliable--boundary between appropriate and not appropriate.

I don't think it's inconceivable that the administrators would, in part, look to the forums' users to help determine where that boundary is. And what is permitted may change over time.

What is and is not appropriate for the FS forum appears to be in a state of flux right now. I don't need another bike but I will still check out what bike4ever is selling. And her listings are almost exclusively women's bikes or bikes in small sizes, which seems appropriate for this site.

I think it's unfair to pull that post out of the context of it's thread. The OP in that thread was expressing frustration at selling a bike and bike4ever gave her some advice.

I've sold a couple of bikes on craigslist and some cycling stuff on ebay. And you know what, I cut and pasted from old ads, which served as a "template" for newer ads.

In my view, "commercial" would have been bike4ever listing her (non-existant) bike selling company or soliciting to sell the OP's bike for her. She did neither. She merely offered advice that was appropriate to the thread. I honestly don't see how you get "commercial" from the post you linked.

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Originally Posted by bike4ever

I agree with attempting to deal with an administrator; however, I have tried that without success. I have answered their questions honestly, but someone still "complains" about my posts. I never hear back from the administrator when I reply to their requests.

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Bike4Ever,

You and I have had a long string of email back & forth over the past 24 hours. I could post that string to prove a point, but I won't because that was a private conversation.

Frankly, I'm rather offended that you would say that you never hear back. That's not the way I conduct business, and it disappoints me that you would attempt to shame me in public.

I quite specifically apologized to you if we had inadvertently deleted a For Sale post for used personal items, and even invited you to re-post those personal items if you wanted to.

FOR THE RECORD:
We do not permit commercial posts on the forums. That's been a long running policy. However, I don't actively "police" the forums, nor do I want to. These issues are brought to me and other admins when someone (usually more than one person) complains, at which point we take action to keep the forums non-commercial.

Our policy is to delete the offending posts, and send a polite email asking the poster to keep her participation in the forums non-commercial. We don't ask people to leave, but rather to simply respect the policy.

Susan

I would much rather buy an item from someone that posts on this board and is known rather than an unknown entity. I hope it can be worked it out.

Agreed Kermit!

I LOVE TE! I can ask questions here that i can't ask anywhere else! And I would be sad sad sad if people w/ expertise (for instance bike4ever) were driven away. They (and their knowledge) are an asset to the website. I have personally benefited from bike4ever's wisdom and want her to feel appreciated!

I think the solution is just to get bike4ever's OPs to do their own postings. I know, unfortunate, but maybe the middle ground?

FYI As a person who recently used TE to recycle (aka resell) a small WSD bike I would haven been very content to pay TE a small classifieds fee given that their forum was the perfect place to find a buyer!

I love to see the bikes you post for sale. The photos are great and all the info is there. If I had a bike for sale, I might ask you to post it for me because you do such a good job. I hate that stuff (posting things for sale).
You also post helpful advice, not just bike-for-sale posts. I hope you are allowed to keep posting when you have used bikes.
vickie

Wow...not sure if this is down to cultural differences with this being a predominantly American forum, but I'm just amazed at all the comments like "you don't criticise admin", etc. I'm a member (and moderator) on cyclechat.co.uk, and I think people would probably stage a mass walkout if you told them they had to just accept every admin decision or weren't allowed to criticise admin/mods on the forum! Our life would be so much easier if everybody just accepted admin's voice as law!!! (Although I would miss the debate, the challenges and the occasional bunfights following moderators decisions!)

Then again, I'm new on this forum, and still getting used to the feel - I remember the "Proposition 8" thread disappearing some time ago, and being a bit baffled that you are not allowed to discuss stuff like this in the "Non-cycling" discussions - after all, it's called "non-cycling" and why can't things that are slightly controversial be discussed, even if the forum is mainly cycling related? Again, the Uk forums seem very different....

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with TE, if I did, I wouldn't be here! I just find it's very different and takes some getting used to - like living in permanent fluffy cloud land (which can be very nice ;)).

Sorry, this has gone a bit off topic and I don't really feel like I can comment on the original issue as I don't know enough about these FS posts. However, afaic if the OP has tried to take it up with admin and had no success, why should she not voice this on here?

Check the FAQ's, the forum rules are posted for all to see.

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/faq.p...q#faq_policies

Political threads disappear quickly simply because as soon as they are posted, admin's email boxes fill up with complaints.

As for the OP, Susan has communicated with her, what more do you expect her to do? If the complaints were yours, and they were ignored how would you feel?

That was my point exactly, this total fear of criticising anything - I do know the rules, I abide by them, but, as far as I know, I don't necessarily have to agree with all of them (unless that's a rule I have missed!)!

Again, I was not having a dig at this forum, members or admin - I just pointed out that it feels very strange to me!

And like I said, I don't know enough about what's gone on with the OP to feel like I can have a very informed opinion, I just don't necessarily see a problem with her bringing it to the forum if she feels that admin are not giving her the explanations she wants (and this is based on my very limited knowledge of what's gone on, therefore I might very well be wrong, but at the end of the day, it's my personal view...)

I appreciate the forum rules, because I love that there is very little flaming or personal attacks here, and that the subject at hand is what is discussed. I love the off-topic discussions, and I love them best because no one is trying to antagonize anyone else.

Susan, thank you, again, for providing this forum.

Karen

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Originally Posted by tantrumbean

, I just don't necessarily see a problem with her bringing it to the forum if she feels that admin are not giving her the explanations she want

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Tantrumbean,

Thank you for expressing your thoughts. It's appreciated, not discouraged.

I *did* just want to point out, however, that the OP *did* receive a response from me via a series of PMs. (Please re-read my post from earlier today.) My feeling is that she didn't like the response, hence the public airing of her displeasure.

Incidentally, I don't mind some criticism or a genuine (non-flame-war) discussion of policies. I don't believe that any of the admins intentionally try to stifle discussion of those policies. But as long as a policy exists, we will enforce it.

Susan

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Originally Posted by Susan Otcenas

B. That's not the way I conduct business, and it disappoints me that you would attempt to shame me in public.

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There is nothing that could be said that would ever cause me to doubt the way TE conducts business. I shop here because of the customer service and the people behind the product. People who know you will not let one comment change the way we view this company, and the people who run it.

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Originally Posted by Pedal Wench

There is nothing that could be said that would ever cause me to doubt the way TE conducts business. I shop here because of the customer service and the people behind the product. People who know you will not let one comment change the way we view this company, and the people who run it.

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+ eleventy billion.

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Originally Posted by maillotpois

+ eleventy billion.

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I raise you a gazillion.

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Originally Posted by Susan Otcenas

Tantrumbean,

Thank you for expressing your thoughts. It's appreciated, not discouraged.

I *did* just want to point out, however, that the OP *did* receive a response from me via a series of PMs. (Please re-read my post from earlier today.) My feeling is that she didn't like the response, hence the public airing of her displeasure.

Incidentally, I don't mind some criticism or a genuine (non-flame-war) discussion of policies. I don't believe that any of the admins intentionally try to stifle discussion of those policies. But as long as a policy exists, we will enforce it.

Susan

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Fair enough, like I said, I don't know all the facts of what's been going on, so therefore my opinion is going to be biased one way or another.

Also, I don't actually think that admin are trying to stifle discussion of policies - those discussions just appear not to happen for some reason (or haven't to my knowledge in the short time I have been here). Again, I can only reiterate that is not a necessarily a problem, maybe it just means everybody is a happy bunny - it's just totally NOT what I'm used to and feels a bit unreal! Surely people must disagree on things occasionally (not just policies, but in general)????

Oh yeah people disagree. We just tend to be civil about it.

Veronica