terrified of hills

I forgot to add this to my last post, but it's another "any suggestions?" thing... I am absolutely terrified of hills. I actually don't mind the uphill climbs. I like that feeling of accomplishment when I get to the top. The problem is, when I get to the top, that means I have to go down. It's exhilarating for a bit, until I realize that I'm still gaining speed. My fear stems from a childhood spill involving me flipping over the handlebars going downhill in a cemetery (ironically, I have no fears of cemeteries) and from a collision I had last summer that involved some fractures. Other than counseling and medication, does anyone have any suggestions for helping me feel more in control and less fearful on downhills? Thanks!!

Use your brakes and don't go any faster than you feel safe going.

As you get more experience you can adjust your speed to match your confidence.

if I knew, I wouldn't be a hill weenie.
I like the climb, same as you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lisa S.H.

Use your brakes and don't go any faster than you feel safe going.

As you get more experience you can adjust your speed to match your confidence.

---

+1
Just cuz it's a downhill doesn't mean you have to go full speed. There are a couple hills near me that I get off and walk down. (very steep hills ending abruptly at intersections) Read up on braking techniques, build up your confidence. Nothing wrong with slow!:D

if you're riding a road bike, always descend in your drops. this will lower your center of gravity and put more weight on the front of the bike, making it more stable. riding in the drops also gives you stronger control of the brakes. if you have difficulty reaching the brakes from the drops, have them shimmed.

when you brake, move your weight back, behind your saddle (imagine placing your belly on the saddle). this will counter the over-the-front motion that you experienced in the cemetery..

one of the best exercises I use with new riders is to have them brake to an almost stop, then release the brakes (hands moving back down to the end of the drops) and let the speed gradually increase, then brake and repeat. try to maintain longer periods of time without braking. I've found if a rider knows she can stop at any time, the speed isn't quite as scary.

never brake during a turn. never.

learn to counter-steer. this will help with switchbacky descents.

find a coach or a clinic to help you learn the proper skills.

and try to smile -- it will relax you.

I'm the same way...worse even after crashing at the bottom of a hill. I did a race a while back and people were not happy with me on the downhills. :( It takes time. Once you feel more confident/experienced, you'll relax a bit!

I have nothing to add. I just want to say that I struggle with this too. Some rides I feel confident enough to approach 30 mph, and other days I'm so timid that it's a mental struggle to allow myself to top 20. Overall I believe I'm making forward progress, and it will just take time.

I know I wasn't always so cautious.....I have memories from 7th grade of pedaling downhill as fast as possible, trying to hit 35mph before I had to turn onto my street, which was 100 feet before a busy intersection.......... sans helmet, in the rain. :eek::eek:

The others are right: there's no obligation to go fast. But it's nice to have some fun, so hang in there!

Because you have flat bars on your Trek 7100, you have no drops, so that's not an option. In any case, move your weight to the back of your saddle towards your rear wheel, which will make it even less likely for your to go over the bars in the event of a somewhat sudden stop.

Keeping your pedals/feet level and your hips and knees somewhat open gives you more steering power.

Learn to use both brakes. If you never use your front brake, and don't know how it makes your bike react, there will be a day when you need to stop ASAP, then you'll jam the brakes and fly over to an unknown but painful destination. Try "feathering" the brakes. Practice in a parking lot. It's actually not so good to brake with just the rear brake, as it can make your rear wheel skid and cause you to loose control. Practice. Practice. Practice.

Finally, there's lots of threads about descending. I'm sure you'll find lots of useful info there!

Welcome and enjoy!

I've got a question for you all:
what about the squealing/burning of the brakes? Is that terribly bad? When I've descended some tricky switchbacks, and I'm riding the brakes hard (and consequently got off and walked), is that something that's OK for the bike in short spurts? I know you don't want the rims to heat up too much, but if you brake hard for a while then let up, then repeat- is that OK?

I'm terrified of downhills. And I don't just mean small downhills- I mean mountain-like downhills. DH wants to do Ride the Rockies or Bicycle Tour of Colorado and I won't because I'm scared of the descents. I like speed- as long as it's straight with no switchbacks.
I'm a hill weenie, too! :o

Velogirl;

Why never brake during turns? I've been down some steep switchbacks that came up suddenly. if i didn't brake, how would I keep from going off the road?


I also agree, there's absolutely no rush. Go as slow as you want. Riding is supposed to be fun. Do what you have to do to keep it fun. But I can't suggest any all uphill routes :cool:

read here too:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=18648

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tri Girl

I'm terrified of downhills.* And I don't just mean small downhills- I mean mountain-like downhills. DH wants to do Ride the Rockies or Bicycle Tour of Colorado and I won't because I'm scared of the descents.* I like speed- as long as it's straight with no switchbacks.I'm a hill weenie, too! :o

---

Tri Girl - many of the downhills in CO are long and straight - and the grade is rarely as steep as here in the east. I am a hill weenie as well but find it much easier to descend in the Rockies than it is here. Go for it - give RTR or BTC a try - I am willing to bet you will not regret it!

Ok I am stupid but what is a hill weenie?
I used to be scared of hill's too.....with the more I rode though the more i got used to it. And i just made my way down slowly. Now I get mad if I have to go to slow. I feel it is my reward for going up the hill.
My ride takes me on a road that goes through winding farm land. The hills are long with a maybe a 10% grade. Not to bad. It just takes a while to get up them. The curves are what you have to be careful of.

Look well ahead of you to where you're going next, through the turns if any, not down at the ground. Try bringing your visual focus up 10 degrees from what you're used to. Practice "seeing with your whole eyes," i.e., being aware of everything in your field of vision. Do this all the time and you'll be a much safer rider (and driver!), and probably more confident at speed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mimitabby

Velogirl;

Why never brake during turns? I've been down some steep switchbacks that came up suddenly. if i didn't brake, how would I keep from going off the road?


I also agree, there's absolutely no rush. Go as slow as you want. Riding is supposed to be fun. Do what you have to do to keep it fun. But I can't suggest any all uphill routes :cool:

---

At race speed or if you are in your turn really hard, that extra touch from the brake could cause your tire to lose grip on the road and the bike will slide out from underneath you. For recreational riders who are not pushing the limits of the bike, wheel, tire or if you are going really slow in a turn you can use your brake. Make sure no one is riding your tail though.

But to be honest, you really should slow down before going into your turn, press down your weight on the outside pedal and the inside handle bar. This will give you more control in your turn. The old school had you point your inside knee in the direction of your turn.

And braking downhill, you want to put your weight further back. You'll see that good riders will slide their butt off the back end of the seat. or stand up and scoot way back on their bike. This helps to keep the back tire firmly on the ground so the back tire doesn't lock up (slide around) and also keep you from doing an endo.

smilingcat

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mimitabby

I've been down some steep switchbacks that came up suddenly.

---

Um, no, the switchbacks were there the whole time, and if you were looking ahead you would've been able to complete your braking before entering the turn. What I said before about "seeing with your whole eyes" and looking where you're going.

Smilingcat's correct about the limits of traction, but the thing is that corners often collect sand, gravel, water or oil, so that all of a sudden you have a lot less traction to spare than you did a ten seconds ago when you decided to apply the brakes. So just like in a car or motorcycle, the best practice is to complete your braking before entering the turn, then accelerate through the apex to improve your rear wheel traction.

Yeah, I brake into corners like I would with a car... do most or all of my braking BEFORE the corner so I am slowed enough to get around it with no brakes, or perhaps justa light feathering.
Do not want the tyres to lock up.

As for hills... going up them bothers me more than down - however, that wasn't the case when I first began. I was always a bit worried about downhills and would sit on the brakes to make sure I didn't go over 20-25kph.

My hands and forearms would be aching by the time I reached the bottom.

With time and confidence and really knowing my bikes I corner downhill at 30kph, and on straights I go downhill pushing 70kph.

But its confidence and practice that has done that (two years of it) so get to know your bike, your ability and your hills and it will become easy.

That's exactly it: brake in and accelerate out. Just don't get to the corner at full speed and then brake unless you're really confident about your bike handling skills. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Um, no, the switchbacks were there the whole time, and if you were looking ahead you would've been able to complete your braking before entering the turn. What I said before about "seeing with your whole eyes" and looking where you're going.

---

Smilingcat, great advice, thanks
Oakleaf, there ARE hidden turns and I encountered some on Monday! they were very twisty and I could NOT see where they were going. I WAS looking ahead. but suffice to say, i had already slowed down because the folks ahead of me warned me!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mimitabby

Smilingcat, great advice, thanks
Oakleaf, there ARE hidden turns and I encountered some on Monday! they were very twisty and I could NOT see where they were going. I WAS looking ahead. but suffice to say, i had already slowed down because the folks ahead of me warned me!

---

Well, okay, but that's another point. That's what they call the "fridge factor," i.e., if you come around a turn and in one lane there's a refrigerator and in the other lane there's the pickup truck that just dropped it, what are you going to do? The point being, never go faster than your visibility and your stopping/swerving distance (speed and traction) allow. Sometimes that just means not going all-out. Even when you know the road and you *do* know the lines through the turns, you don't know what's going to be in them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smilingcat

But to be honest, you really should slow down before going into your turn, press down your weight on the outside pedal and the inside handle bar. This will give you more control in your turn. The old school had you point your inside knee in the direction of your turn.
smilingcat

---

Out of curiosity, why is this not recommended anymore? This summer I realized I needed to do some serious cornering practice, and I adopted the "pointing knee into turn" technique, and it really helped. I've since read on multiple occasions that it's better not to do this and to keep weight "centered over the bike." I subsequently tried to compare pointing knee vs not pointing knee (pressing down on inside of bar either way), and I still find that I corner more confidently at speed by pointing my knee in. Is this so bad?

thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liza

Out of curiosity, why is this not recommended anymore? This summer I realized I needed to do some serious cornering practice, and I adopted the "pointing knee into turn" technique, and it really helped. I've since read on multiple occasions that it's better not to do this and to keep weight "centered over the bike." I subsequently tried to compare pointing knee vs not pointing knee (pressing down on inside of bar either way), and I still find that I corner more confidently at speed by pointing my knee in. Is this so bad?

thanks!

---

Liza, this is the method of counter-steering that I teach (pointing your knee into the turn). There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and for many riders, it will simply open up their hip and point their core in the direction of the turn. and remember, where your core points, your bike will follow.

I've bandied the term counter-steering around a bit but no one has really described it. this is the skill you use to corner (90 degree turns or more) and also to descend switchbacks. it's a complex skill, and it can take years of dedicated practice to master it. but even learning the elements will help you be a more confident bike handler.

1. outside leg down and WEIGHTED (if turning right, this is the left leg). this means you're standing on the pedal, not seated heavy on the saddle.

2. hands are in the drops. this puts weight on the front of the bike (making it stable). your inside hand (right) pushes down on the bar (you cannot do this from the hoods). we don't steer with the bar (we steer with our core). we are not turning the bar either left or right, but rather pushing it down, which initiates a flicking motion (out then in).

3. lean the bike into the turn (right).

4. lean your body the opposite direction (left) so you're centering your weight back over the bike.

5. look through the turn with your entire head (not just your eyes). you are never looking down at the ground in front of your wheel.

6. point your inside knee (right) in the direction you want to turn.

7. use your outside thigh (left) to add directional momentum to the bike.




hope this helps!

Let's see if I can keep this all in my head: head up and looking ahead where I want to go, hands in the drops, outside leg down and weighted, inside knee points where I want to go, and don't forget to breath :)

Like this?

http://velogirls.com/gallery/main.ph...g2_itemId=2352

Hey Trek, you got it! Except in that photo the women are pedaling through the turn. look at all those right legs down.

yes and no. while the women are counter-steering, they're also pedalling through the turns so it changes the weight distribution a bit as well as how far you can lean without clipping a pedal.

I have a great photo that I use in my clinic handouts that I can't seem to find on my mac -- argh!

here's one, but it's kinda small. this was the chicane leading into the finishing chute of the vineman triathlon. speed at this point was about 22mph. you should be able to see all the elements described in the earlier post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zencentury

Hey Trek, you got it! Except in that photo the women are pedaling through the turn. look at all those right legs down.

---

Dang those digital cameras and their delay, must have just missed it. :rolleyes: The right leg was up a moment ago.

Here's another cornering racer, Erin O'Connel Cat 3 of Team Group Health (Eden's Team!)

okay, the photo I want is in this page. I can't find the photo and I can't pull it out of the word doc. argh! but you're all welcome to have this page.

check out the photo on the right. because of the technicality of the turn, they weren't pedalling even though it's a crit.

if that attachment doesn't work, I give up.

last piece of advice. if you want to master counter-steering, work on it in a nice, big, open parking lot somewhere. ride figure-eights. and then progress to swoopy roads that are flat and eventually to slight grades. finally, move onto steeper descents. if you can master this skill on the flats, you'll find your descents are a piece of cake.

btw, when I started riding, I had a paralyzing fear of descents. in my first year or so of riding I came to love fast, straight descents. it took a few more years before I felt comfortable with switchbacks. it's possible to feel safe and in control and to keep that voice in your head singing (instead of screaming).

Lorri

keeping your body low will make a huge difference in your stability and mental comfort. as an analogy, I'll use and SUV and a sports car. if you drive an SUV, you know that you have to slow way down to turn corners (or risk rolling). in a sports car, you can just swoop through a corner and even accelerate on the exit. your bike will behave the same way (if you let it). so get low & sessy!

OK, now that we've got form covered how do I get rid of the fear of squirrels or groundhogs darting out into the road?

Yell cowabunga and carry a golf club... :p


Road -completely-unhelpful - Raven

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zencentury

OK, now that we've got form covered how do I get rid of the fear of squirrels or groundhogs darting out into the road?

---

:D

It's really all the same as it is in cars or motorcycles. You're forgiven since I remember what you said about what you learned in driver's ed ;)

1. See with your whole eyes. Scan the shoulders, woods and grassy margins well ahead of you for critters that might be inclined to dart out.

2. Don't go faster than your visibility and reaction time allow you to do safely. You don't need to be bombing around at 100% all the time. "Save it for the track" is as true on a bicycle as it is on any other wheeled vehicle.

3. Do the drills velogirl's described, and/or other drills of your choice, to improve your handling skills so that your stopping/swerving distance decreases, and you can then go faster within the limits of #2.


The only groundhog I've ever run over on the m/c is one that was sunning itself on the center line - belly up I swear - DH and I both saw it and both assumed it was dead. He went by and woke it up, whereupon it ran directly under my front wheel. Fortunately I was straight up and down and didn't even slide. But that has resulted in another "rule of the road" for me -

Never assume anything is dead until you see its guts.

totally agree with oakleaf about not going so fast that you can't stop within your view. I like the fridge and the truck comment.

And yes always look where you are going not where your wheel is contacting the ground. At high speed I may be looking 100 to 300feet ahead of me.

The infamous death ride have straight downhill section where if you wanted, you could go over 60MPH (100+km/hr). And there were cattle guards. :eek: :eek: :eek: Thankfully, most of the metal cattle guards have been replaced with a "painted" cattle guard. Cattle guards are metal grates with slots in the direction of travel. Great to catch your wheels. So keep a sharp look out when going fast and NEVER, like oakleaf says, go so fast that you can't stop in time.

and to velogirl,

I guess I never thought about it in terms of pointing your core. I guess this is the same thing as "throwing my weight into the turn", my head is always facing toward the direction I want to go... and thank you for reminding me about weight over the bike in the turn.

I go slow around the turns these days. No need to push or test the limits of what the bike and I can do. Also I really lost my "edge" after the accident.

smilingcat

I have years and years (20+) of wanting to cry at the top of hills because I hated descending soooo much. At cycling camp this Nov, one of the coaches took me down some really bumpy steep switchbacky descents nice and slow. She too used to be terrified of descending, and her tips have changed my life! Mind you, I have heard a bazillion times and know how to counter steer, move my body weight and legs, etc. What helped me is what I call "Slow, low and let it go". Feather your brakes on descents - and, as Dotsie told me, if you get going too fast when your confidence improves, "you can always slam on the brakes.". Don't brake during the turns, braking with the front brake will pull your front wheel out of carving the turn into a vertical pulling straight up and out of carving the turn which feels - and is- not safe. So as you approach that curve or switchback - feather,feather,feather your brakes - get to a nice SLOW speed that you feel kind of safe at. Next - GET LOW ! Down in the drops with those elbows bent - very bent! I used to avoid this posture because I thought it made you descend faster and I would lose control. Now I know it greatly enhances steering control and it feels SOOO much safer. And lastly, when you get to the beginning of the scary turn really slow and low in your drops - let it go! Let yourself carve through the turn! Once you get the hang of it, you can start going a bit faster, bit by bit. Dotsie called it "taking baby steps" and I have to remind myself that just because I can go sort of faster down familiar descents, if I try to push that expectation on unfamiliar descents, I will scare myself again, and feel like a failure. So watch what you are doing with those arms,that low elbow bent aero looking position in the drops may just change your life! Good Luck! I forgot to mention, as others have also said - look through the turns to where you want your bike to go, not just the few feet in front of your bike.This helps you relax and focus on getting through the turn and what's ahead!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zencentury

OK, now that we've got form covered how do I get rid of the fear of squirrels or groundhogs darting out into the road?

---

Do not worry. They are biodegradable.
:D

Practice running over waterbottles.

Heyt Knot, great idea... but she needs to glue some fake fur onto them to help desensitise her :p

Hey Knot, is it safe to run over full water bottles? One popped out in front of my friend on a fast double paceline group ride and she managed to avoid it. If the bottle was full is there a chance it would make you crash? Does it make a difference if you are lightweight(?less mass to smoosh the full bottle?) Is this a hijack of a thread hijack? I really do want to know if it's dangerous to ride over a water bottle. Thanks! Carol

I've never ridden paceline :o I'd think you'd have to make an executive decision whether a sudden movement could disrupt the group or go for the kamikaze chipmunk I mean water bottle with fake fur on it. :p

On Alameda Creek Trail chipmunks hide and wait then dash towards your wheels. Maybe it's a coming of age rite of passage for them? "My son, you are now a grown male chipmunk, you must dash at bike wheels". Or maybe they egg each other on "I double dare you, 'cmon, she's old and slow" ;)

I've ridden over water bottles. The traditional squooshy plastic ones harmlessly squish. Anyone want to try the new hard plastic ones? Or the safe metal ones?

You go first :D

bad form to drop a water bottle in a pace line but if it does happen, run over it or atleast try hop over it. But never swerve. cause if do, it could cause multiple crashes. I think the lids always pop and water squishes out.

I've dropped my own water bottle and I've ran over it too. Bad form on my part. The lid popped and water squished. And I was out of a water bottle. :mad:

smilingcat