making drastic changes in life

[shootingstar]

Pax's situation of her health vs. a new place/climate made me reflect on personal choices why people move to different places far from where they lived for many years/grew up.

In my own social circle of long standing friends over past few decades :rolleyes:, I've been the one that has relocated the furthest and several times several thousand km. away from where I spent childhood and university years. I've never lived overseas outside of Canada. And don't have a need now or in future. So probably sound like a homebody Canadian. I am not certain having family who immigrated from Asia, has given me an extra dose of reality through their eyes on what Canada offers vs. other areas of the world where there are more profound gaps between rich and poor, infrastructure and social service support, etc.

Friends have relocated several times to cities approx. 100-350 km. away from where they started in childhood. A learning thing in the end, for a person even if experience was not great.

Choosing a totally different geographic region for purposes of job is a different "lens" on adjustment and only slightly mitigated by the reality of earning money vs. being in a less personal desirable choice location.

[Pax]

I've lived my entire life on the move, so I don't find it unusual. Grew up in a military family and attended 14 schools before high school. As an adult I've moved dozens of times, some in town, some across the country. I love being new places and experiencing new things, this most recent move was to get out of the cold and have a home base for travel. I think itch feet are just part of my DNA.

My brother, born and raised the exact same as me has done a 180 from this, he has spent his entire adult life entrenching himself so he never has to face new people or situations except on the occasional vacation.

[Helene2013]

I, too, moved so much when I was up to 18 (going through different schools in same year) that I don't care much where I live, as long as I'm happy. My plan in 2-4 years is to become more of a nomad and do the motorhome life until I get bored of it. As for hubby, he never moved from day 1...until he moved in with me. And talking about changes is oh...so hard. He's more rooted than I am for sure. He knew when we met that one day I'd be on the go again. It is a either follow me...or I go by myself. Limited options but have some. :) I stood by him for 30 years now because of his parents (now both deceased - mine are too), and his job. But once retired in the next few years...it will be on my ground! I have nothing but our jobs keeping us here. So once the jobs are over and done with...rock my world!

I've been talking to him for years now as I have to get him "ready" for this move at retirement. Once he owns something, no matter what, it is hard to let go. Just to get him to sort out his stuff is something. Baby steps...true baby steps! I don't accumulate and don't get attached to anything. I'm here today, have that today, but who cares for tomorrow. Just sell and move on.

It will be interesting to see how we will be dealing with this. He agrees to it. But the future (not knowing where he will be at "x" date) scares him, destabilizes him. Me. Nah. They have stores, food, and hospital anywhere I plan to go. That is good enough for me.

[ny biker]

I have a friend who also grew up in a military family and moved a lot when he was growing up. He does love to travel and is adventurous but since moving to the DC area in high school he has put down roots here and remains here decades later even though his family has all moved farther south. He once told me that the closest thing he had to a childhood home was his grandparents' house. On the other hand, I grew up in the house that my father has lived in since he was 12. He's still living there at 80 years old. I was eager to move away for college, moved again for grad school and later moved to the DC area because I felt I needed a change in environment. But that was 19 years ago -- right now I have no desire to uproot again. If I do move to another part of the country at some point it will be so I can be closer to family.

One reason I don't want to move is that it took a long time for me to feel settled here with a good community of friends. I just don't want to have to start over. However I wouldn't mind setting up a second home someplace with warmer winters -- if only I had the money.

I had a neighbor here who moved to Mississippi a few years back to be closer to family. He didn't want to move, but was a single retiree who felt he would need to live near his family as he got older and would be less able to live independently due to possible health problems.

[ny biker]

I, too, moved so much when I was up to 18 (going through different schools in same year) that I don't care much where I live, as long as I'm happy. My plan in 2-4 years is to become more of a nomad and do the motorhome life until I get bored of it. As for hubby, he never moved from day 1...until he moved in with me. And talking about changes is oh...so hard. He's more rooted than I am for sure. He knew when we met that one day I'd be on the go again. It is a either follow me...or I go by myself. Limited options but have some. :) I stood by him for 30 years now because of his parents (now both deceased - mine are too), and his job. But once retired in the next few years...it will be on my ground! I have nothing but our jobs keeping us here. So once the jobs are over and done with...rock my world!

I've been talking to him for years now as I have to get him "ready" for this move at retirement. Once he owns something, no matter what, it is hard to let go. Just to get him to sort out his stuff is something. Baby steps...true baby steps! I don't accumulate and don't get attached to anything. I'm here today, have that today, but who cares for tomorrow. Just sell and move on.

It will be interesting to see how we will be dealing with this. He agrees to it. But the future (not knowing where he will be at "x" date scares him, destabilizes him). Me. Nah. They have stores, food, and hospital anywhere I plan to go. That is good enough for me.

I am not unlike your husband in this regard. Not so much afraid but heavily dependant on routine. Breaking my routine causes way too much stress for me. So it's something I need to prepare for -- when it is forced on me unexpectedly I don't deal well at all.

[Helene2013]

That is exactly him. If a routine is changed (and God I can be good at that ALL the time!) he is totally taken off guard and it can get messy. hihi He just does not understand how I can be like I am. He wished he could be like me (not a care in the world for stuff like that). He says this is what he loves about me: never a boring or dull moment. When I'm "quiet" is when I'm sick. I can change his weekend plan 2-3 times. So imagine if he had something in-line (like some house chores to do) and I tell him that I have this "brilliant" idea...and he has to shuffle stuff around...fun fun fun. haha In the end, he said my move was a better one. Sure... after all those discussions. You should have listened to me first. hihi

Rarely something important worries me (even losing a job, or needing to turn around quickly for something urgent, etc). Him....the end of the world just landed over his head!

[Pax]

NY, my wife is exactly the same. With this asthma thing I'd rather retire early and hit the road, travel to find a better place. That is WAY too much upheaval for her and it's stresses her unbelievably to even consider it. So if we have to go, it will be back to the hometown until she settles in and preps to retire, then I could very slowly introduce any possible change.

[Crankin]

I've moved a lot, but I am kind of done. We might buy a second home, but I am basically not going anywhere, except to travel. I am OK when I can control the change and when I initiate it. I can even be fine when it's imposed by work or others, but I do have a breaking point, usually shows up by my stomach rebelling orother physical symptoms. I have no trouble changing plans for a weekend, etc., but I used to be somewhat inflexible. I do like routine, but nothing what Helene describes in her husband. And I can get rid of stuff with no problem. I don't hold attachments to "stuff," maybe more to places.

[Catrin]

From age 12-42 I either lived or traveled in pretty much every part of the US. I even lived in Vancouver, BC back in '83 for about 6 months - it was interesting seeing my country from outside of my country. I've never regretted that and that was when people were moving to Canada from Hong Kong ahead of the British lease running out. Most of my moves were from just pure rebellion - especially in my teens and 20's. I was a hippie - or whatever we actually were in the '70's, I was a rolling stone. I didn't move so much in my 30's - but I made several large moves for both work and to get to where I could build a better life. Did I succeed at that? It depends on who answers the question but I think so.

Since coming to Indiana in 2000 for graduate school things have changed. Same job since 2012, though I seem to move to a new apartment every 4 years or so. Starting to get that itch again, now that I think about it, but will likely resist that itch as I like a lot of things about my current place. I don't have that much "stuff" and I always weed things further every time I move. I hate moving - as odd as that might sound. While there are many things I dislike about Indiana currently, and I doubt I would move here now if I weren't already here, there are things I like about my life here so I consider myself fortunate. If I did get a good job offer from location where different lifestyles and orientations were more welcome then I would go like a shot - but at my age I somehow don't see that happening.

[north woods gal]

My family moved around a lot when I was a kid, then we moved around a lot during my first marriage for the sake of employment, then after I was single, again, more moving for the sake of a job. As I approached retirement age, I began to wonder if I would ever really get the "I am home" feeling that so many of my friends and siblings claimed to have.

My mother, though, was born and raised in the north woods of Minnesota and during our summers, she always took us on a canoe trips and rented a cabin on a lake, not just for our sake, but because the north woods were home for her. That planted the seed in me, I guess, because when it came time for my husband and I to retire, he asked me where I wanted to live for the rest of my life and I wasted no time saying, the north woods.

I have that "I am home" feeling, now, for the first time in my life - long cold winters, bears, loons, mosquitoes and all. It's not for everyone, but with so many of us, up here, winter is a positive thing, something to enjoy, not something to be dreaded. Our home is on a quiet lake, one of 1100 lakes in our country. I can go canoeing, fishing, cross country skiing and more, any time I want, just by stepping out our back door. Crazy me, I just can't understand why anyone would live anywhere, else, now. Life is good, in our north woods.

I hope and pray all of you find your "I am at home" place, too.

[shootingstar]

Love some of these personal stories!

Drastic relocation from one city/region/climate area may need to be weighed against other drastic life changes caused by loss of partner / family member, etc.

Sure I spent lst 40 yrs. in 4 cities in southern Ontario -- before British Columbia, then Alberta. A significant life experience imprint on me, was the destabilizing, childhood phase of learning English starting in kindergarten. Extra ESL support continued for next 2 years for me. Though born in Canada, I never learned English until school. So in essence, I understand in my heart, intimately, what a non-English speaking immigrant feels like. The experience was nearly equal to moving to a different linguistic /country to live, where you are forced to learn to survive. No choice and it was a major upheaval.

"I am at home" place as north woods gal alludes to....to me, is feeling loved/accepted in a place/community where one feels safe, healthy with local possible avenues of more learning / exploration.

[VeganBikeChick]

We moved 11 times before I turned 11. And I seem to have the gypsy gene in my blood. I have lived in over 15 different apartments since turning 21. I've moved away and returned to Seattle 4 times now; to and from Denver twice; all over California (as a travel nurse), and even lived in Australia for 6 months. While I love adventure and traveling, I can't help but think I keep moving to find happiness - and yet it still eludes me. I love the city of Seattle yet hate the traffic, especially now with Amazon taking over - it's become a nightmare to go anywhere during waking hours, and forget about house affordability. Once I'm done with school, I'd love to find a warm climate, or at least an area with a lot of sun. I'm thinking I may return to Colorado, although torn because I have many memories of being there with my ex and know it will be a difficult emotional transition; or maybe to California, although it's hard to imagine I'd find a place up to my standards and affordable for my salary. I'd love to be able to put down permanent roots somewhere - at least for longer than a couple of years.

[rocknrollgirl]

I am glad that you started this thread. Ever since I read Pax's failed experiment I have been nervously questioning our retirement plans. Given a choice, my hubs would sell it all do the motor home thing. I need a home base. Unfortunately this will not be able to be our home base because of the property taxes. It is so expensive to live here that we are going to have to move. Even if we downsize, which we plan to do, we still would have outrageous taxes. I am not tied to "stuff", but I have lived and worked in the same town for over 20 years.

So in our summer travels for the past few years, we have been picking spots and going for a few weeks with the intention of "could I live here?" We need a lower cost of living and would like to be closer to the outdoor activities that we love, and drive long distances to do. I also want to be past of a community. I like knowing the folks at yoga class, or having a biking group.

We have spent lots of time out west, my Mom retired there. Love Colorado, but up in the mountains, again very expensive. We love east coast mountains, NY, and Maine, but I am not sure I want to live there. So this year we are heading to new territory, western NC and revisiting NH to spend some time in the Whites. I have high hopes for NC. If we like it we plan to start to travel there lots of the new few years and maybe rent long term before we make a jump.

It will be tough to leave here when the time comes only because I am comfortable here. My closest friends are spread all over and I know we will make new friends where ever we go. Most of the time it is just the two of us anyway. I only have one sibling left. DH has family, but is only close to one of his sibs. So we are not leaving kids and grandkids.

[Crankin]

I love the Whites, but I hate NH, if you understand what I mean. The "Live Free or Die" mentality is real, and plays itself out in the lack of services and the constant refrain of "no new taxes." NH still does not have mandatory kindergarten. I always caution people to not overlook the political climate and culture of a place, because no amount of good weather or physical beauty can make up for that.
North Woods, you describe exactly how I feel about Massachusetts. I still remember how I felt when the plane landed, when I moved back here, after 23 years. Sure, a lot has changed since I was a kid, but it was the best thing we ever did. I always have a difficult time explaining why we left AZ; we both had terrific jobs, lived in a great city and had tons of friends. But, I knew it wasn't what I wanted. When a couple of my friends started flying to LA, to buy gold jewelry, something in me snapped. I am glad I lived in 3 other places, because it gives me a perspective that others don't have here. I hate when people complain about the weather (I'd take this over months of endless summer; boring) and like you North Woods, winter is something I embrace.

[Jolt]

I've moved a lot, but I am kind of done. We might buy a second home, but I am basically not going anywhere, except to travel. I am OK when I can control the change and when I initiate it. I can even be fine when it's imposed by work or others, but I do have a breaking point, usually shows up by my stomach rebelling orother physical symptoms. I have no trouble changing plans for a weekend, etc., but I used to be somewhat inflexible. I do like routine, but nothing what Helene describes in her husband. And I can get rid of stuff with no problem. I don't hold attachments to "stuff," maybe more to places.

We moved a few times growing up (dad's work) and I have no desire to do that now as an adult OR to put my kids through that when I have them…changing schools was not always a great experience. Even as an adult it is still stressful to have to start over making friends etc. in a new place and now that I am settled here in a place that I like with a good job, my plan is to stick around. I am all for traveling and seeing new places and would like to do more of it, but feel much better having a consistent home base to return to. As far as changes in general, I feel much the same way as far as it being easier to handle it if it was my idea…and if it's not then I'd better be given plenty of warning!

[OakLeaf]

Me too. Moving, even the twice-yearly move I do now (DH's choice, not mine), is a HUGE trigger for the instability of my childhood. The idea of "home" itself is a trigger, a heavily loaded concept my whole life. And the feeling of "coming home" - there's a song by a local band that tells the story of the singer driving back to Ohio, and with each verse, as he gets closer, he realizes more and more how homesick he's been, until by the time the song ends he's decided to come back permanently. One spring I was driving back home and that song came on just as I was crossing the border from West Virginia, and I very nearly had to pull over and bawl.

It's been a factor in some of my health-related choices, too. I know this life isn't permanent, no matter what I do, so the least disruption I can have for the longest amount of time, is the best I can ever hope for.

[north woods gal]

Thank you, all for sharing your stories. I can identify with something in each of them. Since this is a bike forum, I would also like to add that in all my traveling and living across the country, one coast to the other, though good times and some very bad times, my bicycling has been one of the few constants in my life. There were times when it was my only means of transportation, so very practical, of course, but bicycling has always been my therapy, especially when dealing with loneliness and other life issues. My friends used to accuse me of riding to keep one step ahead of my troubles and I suspect they were right. What is there about the movement and constant change of scenery and vistas while riding that so soothes the mind? I really don't know, but it has always worked for me and still very much does, even after all these years. May your riding bring you peace, as my riding has done for me.

[rocknrollgirl]

I love the Whites, but I hate NH, if you understand what I mean. The "Live Free or Die" mentality is real, and plays itself out in the lack of services and the constant refrain of "no new taxes." NH still does not have mandatory kindergarten. I always caution people to not overlook the political climate and culture of a place, because no amount of good weather or physical beauty can make up for that


Fortunately we have traveled enough to know better than to make that mistake. I LOVE some spots up in the Adirondacks, but I could not live there due to lack of services. We currently live in a resort area, so I do not want to do that again either. Speaking of which, summer technically starts this weekend, here comes the bumper to bumper traffic!

[north woods gal]

Yeah, I remembered moving to the west, may, many years, ago, the idea being to head to the mountains to get away from it all and the crowds. Well, after driving all day on the Fourth weekend in the mountains of Idaho to find a campsite that had a vacancy, we ended up in a motel, instead. So much for getting away from it all. :)

[Helene2013]

I love the Whites, but I hate NH, if you understand what I mean. The "Live Free or Die" mentality is real, and plays itself out in the lack of services and the constant refrain of "no new taxes." NH still does not have mandatory kindergarten. I always caution people to not overlook the political climate and culture of a place, because no amount of good weather or physical beauty can make up for that


Fortunately we have traveled enough to know better than to make that mistake. I LOVE some spots up in the Adirondacks, but I could not live there due to lack of services. We currently live in a resort area, so I do not want to do that again either. Speaking of which, summer technically starts this weekend, here comes the bumper to bumper traffic!


ahhhh but you'll have quite a few less Canadians in the Mountains due to the high exchange rates in our $$$. :) So less traffic for you. hihi

We LOVE Vermont, NH and Maine and Mass... always vacation there. Well a lot. :)

[Crankin]

I also love Vermont and Maine. Mostly Vermont. As a kid, all we did was go to the Cape every summer and my DH was kind of flabbergasted I had never been to VT, only been to NH because my dad owned a factory over the border from MA, and Maine once or twice because my dad's parents used to vacation in Ogunquit. I had never been to the Berkshires, either. My family stayed in place, until we moved to FL, then AZ. My parents ended up in San Diego, so they did travel somewhat within that state. They didn't have the $ to travel extensively then, but they could have when I was a kid. It just wasn't "done."
RnR, I also live in a tourist place. It's just an outer suburb,, semi-rural in spots, but because of the historical stuff that happened here, we get tons of tourists, from all over the world, from March-December. It was annoying before I moved to the condo, as I had to drive through the town center, near all of the historical sites, to go to work. Now that I live in West Concord, no tourists come here. It's too artsy and down to earth. We do get a few from the city coming to the village center (hey, I live in a town with 2 "downtowns"), but it's not the same as giant buses with tourists taking pictures of me on my bike! This is the thing that might stop me from buying a second home in Great Barrington. Although it feels like a Massachusetts town, with real people, there are tons of New Yorkers (apologies to those of you from NY) who have second homes there, or have moved there. It is not something I deal well with, probably ingrained from myf family, and I try to be non-judgmental. It's not like Stockbridge or Lenox, which may as well not be in MA. Time will tell...

[emily_in_nc]

Fascinating thread, and I've enjoyed reading all your stories.

I've made so many "drastic" changes in life over the past few decades that sometimes I think I've become addicted to change and moving. I'm not sure I could live a life where everything stayed the same for any great length of time any more. I get too fidgety and itchy. I guess it's a good thing we're nomadic! :D

DH in particular has no desire to settle down. I'm sure at some point, health issues or who knows what will drive us to settle down somewhere, but even though sometimes I long to have a base, be a part of a community again, and put down "roots", whenever I begin to do that anywhere, I balk. I am wondering if there's some commitment-phobia in this case, even though it's not to a person (DH and I have been married 31 years), but to a place?

Interesting thoughts....

[rebeccaC]

When I left France for a year of schooling in Quebec my mother and I had a good conversation about the importance of looking at change as an internal journey/discovery as much as an external one. I’ve always remembered that long conversation when I’ve moved to a new area. Granted that has only been the Quebec move, to Paris for schooling after Quebec, to the U.S. for my University years, back to Paris for some of my post grad work and then to Ca. for my present job. From that though I’ve learned I can adapt easier to a new area by being in the present and taking lots of positive reflection time to think through how I am connecting to the people and environment around me. I’ve found taking time to be by myself, mindfulness meditation, journaling, yoga and solo bike rides etc. helps in feeling ‘at home’ especially in the beginning. I also use art objects made by me, made by friends, given to me by family and bought on traveling trips and the areas I’ve lived in to bring a feeling of continuance to a new place. In moving here my life has always been quite busy with my work, my volunteering, my photography passion, my exercise and friends new and old so that adjusting to Ca. was made easier through just that....and for me the social/political atmosphere is a nice bonus!

Personally I love the area I’m in now with the weather being usually 70 +/- 15 degrees year round….and all the completely different types of landscapes, diverse urban, ocean beach/coastlines, mediterranean ecosystem mountains and rural farming plains all within easy bicycling range. Plus desert solitude, coastal and mountain forests and the snow covered san gabriel/sierra nevada mountains all within a few hours of travel by car…..plus plus the richness of the diverse culture and the ethnic groups of a large urban area.

Through being both a French and American citizen and my trip travels I also know enough about different areas of the U.S. and the E.U. that with my education and work ethic I would be able to choose a new place to work and live with a reasonable expectation of enjoying the new area…especially with the early advice of my mother to be centered while looking at and experiencing the inner and outer journey of moving to a new home.

Now….a place like Oklahoma etc. could be a challenge for me but there is also being creative and for me that would be enjoying documenting even things I don’t appreciate through camera lenses and helping me to see them in a way that leads beyond my preconceptions about the world, its inhabitants, and myself.…..so I could even see some advantages of living even some place I didn’t like. I'm also thinking Emily_in_nc could to be on to something with the nomadic life :)


What is there about the movement and constant change of scenery and vistas while riding that so soothes the mind?
That’s called neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine etc. :)...and yes the environment too for sure!!!!
I also see one of the neuroscience benefits of my bicycling as helping to increase my stress resistance….

[salsabike]

rebeccaC, you are one of the most intelligently positive people I've ever "met". I really value it. Thanks. :)

[rebeccaC]

rebeccaC, you are one of the most intelligently positive people I've ever "met". I really value it. Thanks. :)

as are you and i value that!!!!!

[Crankin]

I've lived 2 places that I was not a good fit with. Why do that to yourself, when you have a choice? Obviously, I had no choice at age 15, moving to Miami, but I did choose to stay in AZ, after I caught up with my parents, after they moved there. It was fine for a long time, it was really having kids that made me question what kind of environment I wanted to bring them up in, what I wanted them exposed to (cities, not Sunbelt developments, woods, ocean, seasons, valuing education). There are other places I know I would be OK living in, but I for one, would never deliberately put myself in a Texas, Oklahoma, or a number of other places. I've felt the sting of anti-Semitism enough in the south and even in Phx in the 70s and 80s, to know that I'd rather not feel that "different" from most of the people around me. If I had to move to a place that was not a good fit because of economics, of course, I would try to make the best of it, and I know how to get connected to a community, but I wouldn't like it. My world in Tempe was very small, staying within the confines of friends from the JCC and work. I always felt like I was swimming against the tide in terms of my values. The district where I taught had a very large percentage of students and faculty from a very conservative religion. It may sound silly, but sometimes, this was difficult, as it wasn't like this was something that was only at home for the kids. It was kind of in your face. Myself and another colleague once wrote a letter to the director of special ed and the superintendent, outlining why it was not OK to say a prayer, in Jesus' name, at the special ed awards night. Or why my 5 year old son had to explain to the cashier at the grocery store why he didn't celebrate Christmas. So, things like this, while small and insignificant to some, add up. Micro aggressions. I totally understand how this affects people. It just got on my nerves.

[OakLeaf]

Somewhat related: Children's social, academic functioning is impeded when their families move more often (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160525083914.htm)


I remember anti-Semitism in the neighborhood we lived in when I was in middle school, in the San Francisco bay area. And very frank racism in the Chicago suburb where I went to grade school. While there are definitely parts of the country where it's more acceptable to say certain things out loud in the 21st century (not necessarily where you'd think, either - I see more Confederate flags in Ohio than I do farther south), I don't think anywhere that isn't completely homogeneous is really safe from microaggressions.

And, my baby sister, who's if anything to the left of me politically, as well as needing much more of a cultural scene than I do - she loves Dallas. Lived there for a while, moved away, realized Dallas was where she wanted to be, came back, bought a house and established her business there. Unlike me, she isn't constitutionally moving-averse - she's lived in other English speaking countries and in several parts of the USA (as an adult) for long stretches, and traveled all over the world.

My dad spent most of his adult life running away from stuff. My mom uses a combination of denial and resilience to tell herself she's content wherever she is. [I haven't watched the second season of _Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt_ yet, but if you watched the first season, it really gave me an understanding of how so many people could find my mom charming, where all I could see was an incredible solipsism.] The combination has given me both the dysfunctional aversion to moving, and the commitment to making an honest assessment of what I like and don't like about something or somewhere before either embracing or discarding it.

[Pax]

Does anyone else find such decisions, about moving to find the "right" fit, complicated by being half of a couple? My wife would do anything to ensure my happiness and wellbeing, but it is at the expense of her own, and I want the best for her. Leaving Florida would be physically better for me, but she is thriving here, she gets to go running/walking outside to the beach year round, she loves all the sunshine, she is just happier here.... makes my heart hurt to think about taking her back to the grey skies and long winters.

Beyond the immediate concerns, I would love to be back in Chicago, back in the culture, diversity, and activity, but even though she was raised there, she finds the city overwhelming now (maybe because she's so introverted?). It's just difficult, after 26 years, to see how where we want to be can be so disparate.

[Helene2013]

Complicated yes. In a way. Because our views are opposite, but at same time they are about the same - even after 33 years it leads to good discussions. Good thing is we can come to a compromise with good reasoning.

Instead of moving back to Chicago and in order to still remain in a "warmer" climate in winter, could you find another city, state that could offer you a better air quality, and her, the warmth all year long. There must be somewhere in all those States that could do. It would be a good compromise. Personally, I'm am no fan of heat and humidity and I would never stay in a hot climate all year round. But if I could find better city/place than the brutal winters of Quebec, I certainly would move in a heartbeat (but because of his job right now---he's 26 years done and needs 28-30 to retire with pension) we have to wait some. I just cannot imagine myself staying in the province we are at retirement. For too many reasons (high taxes and expensive living costs due to taxes are tops).

Since I'm Canadian, I can't really reside full time in the USA (too complicated). So we will do 7 months there and 5 months elsewhere in Canada. At least at the beginning of our retirement. We'll see how things turn out along the year(s).

I can't tell for the culture, religion, etc as we don't see the debates or issues that we often seem to read on the other side of the border. Issues in Quebec are mostly related to "separation" from Canada but this is dying on its own with most young adults not as interested - and used to travel the world - to care about this part of politics. Maybe if I got stuck in all those things I valued, it may make it easier to stay or leave an area.

For my husband, I think he is more "afraid" of not finding enough French (he has good English but not as perfectly bilingual as me) in his new environment. Told him there are many places in Canada to find French, and even in good parts of the USA. Just need to do the good homework. :) I think that once I secure him with this, and where he will be landing in his future "homebase" he'll be 2 feet into the project. But true, it is not always easy in a couple when we are not on the same page for important things - or what is important to each of us.

[north woods gal]

Being half a couple works both ways, at least for some of us. Before I met my current husband, I was nearing retirement age and working in the Chicago area. My retirement plan" was little more than buying an old junker, pointing it west, and driving it till it fell apart and that spot would be my new home - as long as it wasn't in a big city (I'm a small town, country gal). Obviously not a brilliant retirement plan and had I not met my husband, shortly after, I might still be wandering around, looking for a place to call home. Why? I know myself well enough to admit that I am not a solo person. I need a companion on my journey though life and my partner is an integral part of what I regard as "home". I'm also a very open and flexible person, though, so it was easy enough for us to find a place we both could love.

On the other hand, I can see where it would be difficult if there is a difference in terms of where each half needs or wants.

[Pax]

Helene - an interesting thing about past choices influences future ones... we worked for the state of Illinois for so long our healthcare is attached to the plans they offer. We discovered recently that Florida refused free funding from the federal government to expand medicaid (healthcare for people with little money), since we will fall into that category when we retire we will be without affordable healthcare. By moving back to Illinois we will be in a wonderful healthcare system that is very affordable for us. So, no matter what, we'd be moving back in the next five years or so.

north woods gal - your retirement plan made me smile, mine was similar, only in a van. In many ways I'm very glad my beloved has slowed some of my wilder impulses. :D

[Helene2013]

We're so close as countries but yet so not the same.

Unless I am mistaking, our Canadian plan covers you no matter where you stay in Canada as it is a universal system paid through taxes. The new insurance takes effect 3 months after moving into the new province (for Ontario anyway). For instance, if I move from Quebec to Ontario, I get my new health card 3 months later, but still covered through my other province until then. It may mean that I might have to pay the doctor if I see him. But my Quebec plan will reimburse me until the new Ontario plan kicks in. Coverage varies from one province to the next.

In Quebec, most prescribed drugs are paid by government (no wonder our taxes are so high), if you have no work plan, etc. It has something like a deductible (not too sure how it works as I have a work plan and I don't use provincial one). But in Ontario, no drugs are covered at all. So I suppose someone has to make sure they have other insurance to cover this if needed (may be an Ontarian can confirm this).

Anyway, true that when you make some moves, you still have to do all the homework you can to avoid surprises. At least minimize it. And health is a biggie to think about.

[rebeccaC]

We're so close as countries but yet so not the same.


Coming from France the whole health care system in the U.S. actually bothered me in the way it works….especially with the better examples of universal health care systems and national health insurance programs in other countries, France in particular. I wish more Americans would be thinking about and working for something better for themselves and others. Always being under a universal plan I guess I don’t see the value in the insurance/ pharma profit part etc. etc. and the states that are so uncaring for political and or religious reasons.
….'so it goes' vonnegut

eta..then there is this way of finding a new home despite/through ‘urbanist scolds and bike share doctrinaires (http://www.newsweek.com/jeffrey-tanenhaus-citi-bike-countribike-new-york-california-456872)’ :)

[Jolt]

Does anyone else find such decisions, about moving to find the "right" fit, complicated by being half of a couple? My wife would do anything to ensure my happiness and wellbeing, but it is at the expense of her own, and I want the best for her. Leaving Florida would be physically better for me, but she is thriving here, she gets to go running/walking outside to the beach year round, she loves all the sunshine, she is just happier here.... makes my heart hurt to think about taking her back to the grey skies and long winters.

Beyond the immediate concerns, I would love to be back in Chicago, back in the culture, diversity, and activity, but even though she was raised there, she finds the city overwhelming now (maybe because she's so introverted?). It's just difficult, after 26 years, to see how where we want to be can be so disparate.

I can definitely see how being half of a couple could complicate matters, depending on the couple! I have seen couples where the partners have pretty much opposite preferences of what kind of place to live and am not sure how they work that out without it being a win/lose situation. Fortunately for me, my SO grew up in this area and doesn't feel a need to try living somewhere else…we also tend to have very similar preferences in a lot of things (we always joke that "great minds think alike"). I know people say that opposites attract, but I think that kind of a relationship would stress me out!

[emily_in_nc]

I definitely agree, Pax, that being half of a couple makes decisions on where to live harder! During our 31 years of marriage, we have moved quite a few times, and in most cases,, one of us was ever so slightly more gung-ho than the the other. And every lifestyle change/decision has been like that. Obviously we would never make these kinds of decisions unilaterally, but one person has to compromise his or her ideal choice more, perhaps.

If I were single, I am quite sure I would still be living in NC, not nomadic at all. I would not be brave enough to live this kind of lifestyle alone, plus I'd get too lonely if I didn't have a partner, since I'm introverted, so making new friends can be tough. With my DH, I always have one built-in bestie!

So, I am grateful to him because I think of how much I would have missed out on, so many amazing places and experiences, if he hadn't been driving these changes. Maybe your wife feels that way, Pax, and maybe she'll do just fine. As I mentioned in a previous post, when we moved to Florida, briefly, years ago, I loved it too, but I quickly adapted to life back in NC when we returned. And I was happy there too. I wish the same for your wife. But that doesn't mean that I don't feel your dilemma.

BTW, our healthcare is through the Obamacare exchanges in Florida, and we've found it to be fine for us. We have a low-cost Florida Blue plan as we're both too young for Medicare. But we didn't have the choice of a better plan in NC as neither of us qualified for a retiree medical plan (we worked for the same private company for years, and they finally declared bankruptcy), If we'd had something like you describe in IL, leaving would have been much more difficult, and we probably would never have done it.

I wish you peace with your decision, whatever it is.

[Pax]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Emily.

Sorry gals, didn't mean to derail the thread and make it about me. :o

[shootingstar]

I did a little half-fun, half-serious infographic about the 3 different Canadian regions (https://cyclewriteblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/01/canadian-contrasts-or-ignorance-3-cities-3-solitudes/)where I've lived, worked and biked. :rolleyes: I know, I choose some weird facts. And yes, there is a fact for comparative cycling experiences.

A person can read a ton of info. about a region. But until one actually lives there for a few years, there are some things one has no clue if one is not at resident at all.
While it's romantic to believe that good people don't think about race, ethnicity of others, influences attitudes, initial impressions, it's not realistic. I'm not going to kid myself that I would enjoy at midlife or close to retirement, to live forever in Spain or Germany. My gut feeling is being non-white, non native Spanish/German, one needs to become quite linguistically fluent in the language to even come close to being accepted as a "local". Even then, one still may be viewed slightly as an outsider. That's still no guarantee of relating to people on a equal footing.

I love travelling abroad, but after a few wks., I like coming back to Canada....a country in spirit historically and now, is an immigrant based country that allows a person to start off fresh anew, a different life.

Being here in the prairies, feels at times, like being stuck in the middle ..of vast open nothingness. In Alberta, the politics, funding matters on infrastructure, health care ends up with only 2 major cities (Calgary, Edmonton) vs. rest of rural Alberta. There are 3 other much smaller cities under 100,000. Guess where change has been driven from to redesign Albertan communities, include more and better multi-modal transportation systems, social justice programs......from people who have relocated from other parts of Canada/other countries. There are only 2 universities in Alberta ... so different from Ontario where it's a powerhouse of knowledge capital (over 8 large universities), more diverse industries, more diverse cultural activities, etc. Just going cycle touring you have towns, cities closer together for more enjoyable, less exhausting trip planning in southern Ontario. (But still, it's absolutely not like some smaller European countries where towns are even closer.)

Am focusing on geography. It's amazing how a country's geography influences us so heavily for health, transportation, comfort...or even as physical barriers that creates at times unusual psychologically subtle fences. Living in British Columbia, it was easier to be lulled to think only of the Pacific coastal region....because there are several mountain ranges to cross to get to Alberta: Cascade, Monashee Mtns, Selkirk and then Rocky Mountains. It was just easier to forget about rest of Canada when living in British Columbia. It often stuns me when just flying between Vancouver and Calgary, just how much of Canada is sheer unhabitable wilderness.

Am here in prairies because of a job, like many people who relocated to our city in the past 15 yrs.: it's either for a job or education. It is not for retirement unless one already has family/close friends. My vacation benefit limits me from returning to Vancouver often. But I do it when I can ..and he comes over to enjoy prairie /Rocky Mtns., especially when Vancouver has its heavier rainy season in late fall and winter.

I enjoy living in a place with 4 distinct seasons-- even if winter anywhere in Canada means cold, some sloppy days. I do like some distinct drama in seasonal changes.

[north woods gal]

There is no doubt that geography and the land shapes and molds us. I spent most of my life on the prairies of the Dakotas and Nebraska and even though I dearly love our north woods of Wisconsin, where we live, now, I do miss my wide open spaces. I think you have to be raised there for it to really get in your blood, though if you live there long enough you can certainly appreciate it. If you're new to these vast landscapes, though, it can be intimidating and even unsettling. As kids, I remember cousins from Pennsylvania visiting us in North Dakota and they were genuinely terrified to be able to look miles in any direction without seeing a tree. Me, I loved it and still do.

When it came time to retire, I knew my husband would have a hard time adjusting to such vastness, since he spent his whole life east of the Mississippi. We compromised and headed to the north woods and are quite happy, here. Still, I am haunted by my prairie memories and long to see and feel the wind blowing over miles of grassland. :) Of course, that prairie wind was an ever present factor in my bicycling. Calm days were a rarity.

[Blueberry]

Ah yes. Wide open spaces. I officiated RAAM last year and it was my first time seeing lots of open space. There was a fire on the course in the AZ desert, and the headquarters folks asked me to find it (yes, in fact, drive towards a brush fire in the desert with high winds). I was on the phone with emergency dispatch. They kept asking me how far away the plume of smoke was, and I had to quite frankly say I couldn't tell. They pushed for an estimate, and I was about 20 miles off. So hard to tell distances out there.

I loved it, though. I prefer my large distances over water as opposed to land, though.

[Pax]

So many different geographic areas, they really do seem to distill into a preference or a comfort level for many of us as we age. Wide open spaces are absolutely a part of me; if I go to the beach often enough I can get my fix, but when I can't get there for a while I start feeling really claustrophobic, it's very closed in here with trees and vegetation... as soon as I get back to the prairie and can see for miles, I feel like my mind can rest and I can breathe again.

[emily_in_nc]

Since I've lived all my life in the east and usually surrounded by woods, forests always comfort me, even with the snakes, bugs, etc. I love the beach too, though, and am always drawn to water, be it an ocean, creek, lake, or river. The first time I visited the southwest US, I was absolutely enchanted by the desert and its special beauty; ditto for the first time in the plains and prairie with the big sky I'd never really seen in its entirety before. I love and appreciate all the different environments but do feel vaguely uneasy whenever I am in a place where there's a larger chance of tornadoes (and that can include my home state of NC at times as well, Florida, etc).

When we moved to the KC area for a year, my mother was so worried about tornadoes that I had to do some research and determine that KC itself actually has very few tornadoes; most in Kansas are in the western half of the state where it's dead flat. In fact, the greater KC area is full of huge deciduous trees and hills! It's gorgeous and not easy cycling as I thought it would be at all. I sent Mom lots of stats I found online and eased her mind. :D

[Crankin]

I know I could never live in a prairie/open environment. One of things that bothered me the most about Miami and Phoenix was the flat brownness of each place. I love the desert, but unfortunately, like the song, "they paved paradise and put up a parking lot." You could see the mountains, but you had to travel a ways to be in real desert. So sad. The last time I was in AZ, we stayed in Cave Creek, which is far, far north of where I lived. In the boonies. But, it felt like real AZ. I also loved northern AZ, but alas, always said it looks just like NH! The beaches in Florida were nice when I was a teen and in college, but over the years, I have become less of a beach person, and more of a mountain person, thanks to cycling. I need to live near a coast, but not necessarily to sit on the beach! I like to walk on the beach, and observe the scenery, but beach towns hold no allure for me.
I learned a lot, though from my moves. I like diversity of scenery and the ability to drive places that are different within 2-3 hours.

[Jolt]

I don't think I could live in a prairie-type area either…no privacy when there aren't any trees! My grandparents, who are from Montana, have always said they feel claustrophobic from all the trees when they have visited us on the East Coast so it's definitely a matter of what one is used to. I just moved into a beach town, so will probably become more of a beach person just because it's so easy to get to…will be interesting to see how crazy it is around here now that summer is starting!

[Pax]

God, I love Montana, the sky is so wide open it's like being inside a drop of water, the sky seems to drop away beneath your feet!

[north woods gal]

I know I could never live in a prairie/open environment. One of things that bothered me the most about Miami and Phoenix was the flat brownness of each place. I love the desert, but unfortunately, like the song, "they paved paradise and put up a parking lot." You could see the mountains, but you had to travel a ways to be in real desert. So sad. The last time I was in AZ, we stayed in Cave Creek, which is far, far north of where I lived. In the boonies. But, it felt like real AZ. I also loved northern AZ, but alas, always said it looks just like NH! The beaches in Florida were nice when I was a teen and in college, but over the years, I have become less of a beach person, and more of a mountain person, thanks to cycling. I need to live near a coast, but not necessarily to sit on the beach! I like to walk on the beach, and observe the scenery, but beach towns hold no allure for me.
I learned a lot, though from my moves. I like diversity of scenery and the ability to drive places that are different within 2-3 hours.

Of course, in the remote areas where most of those plains and prairies are, you'll only have cows or maybe antelope for company. :) Some of the counties in this region have the lowest population density in the U.S. That lack of population, though, can also add to some folk's unease.

[emily_in_nc]

Of course, in the remote areas where most of those plains and prairies are, you'll only have cows or maybe antelope for company. :) Some of the counties in this region have the lowest population density in the U.S. That lack of population, though, can also add to some folk's unease.

But would make me very happy indeed! :D

[north woods gal]

Me, too. Just need my husband, our dogs and close friends. Anything more is a crowd. :)

[Crankin]

And, I would not last a minute in that environment!
Need lots of people. Not a super crowded environment, but definitely not sparsely populated.

[shootingstar]

Where I live now is 1,000 metres above sea level, but one doesn't know it while in prairie land. The difference is that my partner tells me that after spending over a month or longer in our area, he cycles better on hills in Vancouver area which the downtown area is at sea level. Your lung capacity is expanded in our area.

The skies are brighter in blueness and we do get many more days /hrs. of sunshine compared to other areas. Long time locals love the sunnier skies and tell me, that's what they don't like about Vancouver BC...more rain/grey at certain times of years, etc. I am not affected by SAD compared to others..IF I live in a city with a range of different things to see and do. I could not live in Pacific Northwest rainy seasons in the rural areas.

As for cycling in the prairies: the hardest part is a lot less tree wilderness and trees. It IS a big deal..for a woman touring cyclist needing to go to the washroom. At times there is no bush or rock, stand of trees to hide. The winds with no natural windbreak at times, can be difficult. I know some local cyclists at work, who are decent cyclists, just choose not to cycle commute to work on days when wind kicks up over 40 kmph through natural grassland prairie parks. And we have some long linear local parks like this.

I've always enjoyed living within view of large water body from home, or at least cycling a few kms. from home, to a large body of water. Where I live now I am near a major river and actually am fortunate to have view of also river parkland with natural mature trees, etc. It's a big deal in a prairie city. It does mean something to my soul to see leafy tree cover and also changing fall colours.

However, I know after camping and travelling in rural areas, wilderness that's great for travel but for myself not living long-term. Nature inspires me for creating art, what I write and cycling in areas surrounded by nature, is motivating. But I don't feel comfortable to isolate myself by living in rural area. I've spent vacation time in homes of a few friends who each live in a tiny town of 2,000 or less people. It's ok...I guess. But not for me. A lot of driving for them to daily shopping and chores.

I don't drive and hence, living in rural areas makes no sense for me. There's a time in one's life to live in rural isolated areas for a few decades...not when you become more weak/less mobile. I am not convinced that friends and family will be around to help at the right time, because they have their own schedules and lives also. Right now, except for my partner, I have no family living in the province where I am. They are 3,800 km. east of me. Canada (and US) are frickin' huge countries.

I believe it helps that a person knows who they are, their identity or what shaped their earlier years in life which propels them to select the best values and adopt other improved values/ways of living. It helps later in life when you end up living in areas very far from where you were born/raised.

For myself, it's living in a place that's clean, safe and close to amenities plus a diverse range of cultural activities and opportunities to learn via lectures, courses and some shared interests. Yes, I do value Canada's health care system. It's not perfect but whole lot better than some other places. And one is better off living in a major Canadian city to have local access to health facilities and specialists. It's mind boggling to hear of other Canadians spending their own money (not covered by public health insurance) to travel several hundred or over 1,000 kms. to a big city for specialized health care, etc. (and also find local accommodation etc.).

I also prefer to live in multi-generational neighbourhoods. By coincidence, I live in a neighbourhood that has less children at this time. (Have seen the census for our area.) Not in a retirement community until I become unable to live independently.

My parents have an ideal situation (my father died nearly 2 yrs. ago), they bought and live in an newish infill house in mid-town Toronto over 18 yrs. ago. It is across the street from an elementary public school. The house is on quiet street which coincidentally had bike lanes installed just 4 yrs. ago. Is a 15 min. walk from 2 different frequent bus lines to subway. 2 blocks from major grocery store etc. There is a community garden just 1/2 a block away. It was created over 5 yrs. ago. My parents really wouldn't have known all this new amentities. They simply needed a home that fit their budget, close to transit (for non-drivers), some shopping and not in the suburbs. They made a very wise lifestyle and for my mother, a wise financial investment.

[Crankin]

Shooting Star, one of my closest friends in AZ is from Montreal. She is an ob/gyn nurse practitioner and midwife and her ex husband is a family medicine doctor. Both trained in Canada, althogh my friend did her NP work in AZ. All of their family who still lives in Canada go to private doctors and use insurance from their jobs. I remember, quite a few years ago, one of their parents needed an angiogram, after some heart incident. He was still youngish at the time, and it was going to be a 2 month wait. My friends were frantic, and used connections to get him in with a private doc. I think that in the end, people who have some other sort of insurance from work use it, to avoid situations like this.

[shootingstar]

If it was life-threatening, it's understandable that your friends wanted to go the private route.

Not sure if all medical conditions need the faster route to a private doctor all the time.
My partner who is a cyclist, had congestion in what he perceived in his respiratory system. Doctor looked at him....3 months ago. Then they fast-tracked him to the local hospital for respiratory and heart tests. To make it sure it wasn't anything else. It was incredibly fast their response to him. He was in the hospital clinic the next day.

This was in Vancouver.

I had a concussion and was in rehab for 6 months last year. I saw my family doctor every 2 wks....that is how heavily monitored I was because I was also on sleeping pills since concussion disrupted my sleep patterns. She had experience dealing with a number of patients with concussion. I did have an MRI a few months later, which the doctor preferred once things "settled down" a few months later. (I did have a CT scan within 3 hrs. of my injury in Vancouver. I was unconscious at that time. They put me on a spinal board....just in case.)

I also saw sleep doctor several times. He is involved in various research studies on sleep and concussion/athletes with the university. So his expertise was real and deep. Both physicians' care for me, were on the public healthy care system. After each diagnosis, I would phone my sister, emergency medicine doctor in Ontario who also deals with concussions. Just to get her informal opinion on the general direction of care, and know that I was under the best care. I was. I did have physiotherapy (6 visits) which were funded by employee health benefit. If I didn't have it, I believe people might qualify for a few (less) physiotherapy visits.

I was injured in British Columbia. I believe the real cost would have been $500.00 for ambulance transport, as a non-British Columbian, but CAnadian patient to pay. (My work benefit paid it.) My hospital care for 1 night 24 hrs. with neurologist, etc. did not personally cost me. There is paperwork sent to the B.C. and Albertan health govn't authorities where they check for Canadian patients if the rate of care is same cost between the 2 provinces. If it's different, I believe the patient pays for the difference.

This is for Canadian citizens who already live in a specific Canadian province and have registered with their home provincial authority for public health insurance coverage. Everyone who chooses to live in Canada is advised to register for public health care coverage. It makes no sense for medical care in Canada if one chooses not to register or use the system. There are VERY few private doctors in the cities where Il've lived..and honest, I wouldn't use them unless there was a compelling reason.

May I say: my father who had diagnosed for prostate cancer for remaining 6 years of his life....did not pay for clinic care, specialist tests, not for the drugs, chemotherapy and palliative care (for 2 months before he died)...at Canada's top cancer research hospital in downtown Toronto. This is what I mean....to live in a major North American city with specialist care already there.

We could have not asked for anything better, Crankin for my father. Would have been a mistake (and waste of money) to go to the U.S. for cancer care, now that we know what limited options he had anyway in his 80's. He was already living in a city with a well-known research and care facility in the Canadian oncology world. His advantage helped maintain a high quality of life with cancer, was his general health....no respiratory, heart conditions at all to complicate things.

The useful thing as a patient, is to find a doctor who does believe in patient education, in addition to diagnosis. But personally I find, my best defense, is to be alert to ask good questions when with the doctor and a doctor receptive to being bombarded with patient questions...which a lot of people don't know how to/stressed out/feel intimidated by doctor/health care professionals.

Since this is a cycling forum: no question that being/becoming healthy at least cuts down more medical complications near the end of life. And for major injury/illness before that, you recover better. I personally vouch for this in my concussion recovery in my mid-50's.

[rebeccaC]

Does anyone else find such decisions, about moving to find the "right" fit, complicated by being half of a couple?

For me...and this being a drastic change thread...being in a relationship that for the first time has the possibility of marriage I’ve been thinking a lot about and having conversations with Alex about being a committed couple and all that means.
Both of us think it’s important to have these conversations. We both feel one of a relationship’s important aspects is based on how differences are dealt with and that we are all shaped by different dynamics.
Our understanding and respecting each other's choices, our words of affirmation, our life’s ethos, how we deal with trusting one another, how we make decisions together are just some of the things that can make a marriage easier if we take time to work out our feelings in an honest and caring way before....that's what we're thinking anyway. Relationships are hard and marriage is even harder....i know good, bad and ended ones.

Every love story is beautiful, but Alexandra’s and mine is my favorite.:)


‘The negative feelings we all have can be addictive…just as the positive…it’s up to
us to decide which ones we want to choose and feed”… pema

[shootingstar]

Hope things, work out Rebecca.

[ny biker]

Does anyone else find such decisions, about moving to find the "right" fit, complicated by being half of a couple?

Late to the party here, things have been crazy lately. But I just wanted to mention that it's no picnic going through everything alone.

I'm very happy for you and Alex, Rebecca.

[Pax]

Late to the party here, things have been crazy lately. But I just wanted to mention that it's no picnic going through everything alone.

I'm very happy for you and Alex, Rebecca.

I wonder about what it would be like to be alone, sometimes. We've been together for 26 years and while many decisions are easy because we have so much in common, others can be a bear because we have different timetables or ideas about the future.

Do you ever find, without having someone to bounce ideas off of, that you can be prone to over-analysis paralysis?

[Catrin]

I can't imagine what it would be like to NOT be alone, I've lived alone now for over 20 years.

Good question Pax, for me and my tendency to over think (though I do generally make big decisions quickly, it's the little ones that take time), living alone does make it...challenging sometimes to set aside obsessive thinking patterns when I go there. Thankfully I've learned how to recognize the signs and have developed ways to deal with it. I admit wondering if it would be easier to stop it if someone was around to distract me. Or not :o

[Pax]

Interesting, Catrin. My honey is more like you, she was a bit obsessive about decisions when we first got together, she had to weigh and consider and ponder. I, on the other hand, review, decide, act, almost instantly. It was very disconcerting for us both initially, we've adjusted to each others ways over time and that's helped immensely.

[Catrin]

Interesting, Catrin. My honey is more like you, she was a bit obsessive about decisions when we first got together, she had to weigh and consider and ponder. I, on the other hand, review, decide, act, almost instantly. It was very disconcerting for us both initially, we've adjusted to each others ways over time and that's helped immensely.

I do both - it depends on what it is. The bigger the decision, the less time I consider/ponder. The opposite of what one might assume :o

[ny biker]

I wonder about what it would be like to be alone, sometimes. We've been together for 26 years and while many decisions are easy because we have so much in common, others can be a bear because we have different timetables or ideas about the future.

Do you ever find, without having someone to bounce ideas off of, that you can be prone to over-analysis paralysis?

Yes. Combine that with the fact of only 24 hours in a day and no one to split household tasks with, and there are plenty of important things that never get done.

[Pax]

Yes. Combine that with the fact of only 24 hours in a day and no one to split household tasks with, and there are plenty of important things that never get done.

I know when my honey had her hysterectomy and I had to do everything for a few weeks, it felt overwhelming. I eventually starting letting things slide because I ran out of hours in the day.

[rocknrollgirl]

Hi All,
Early on in this thread I mentioned that we were checking out area for possible retirement. So now we are in western NC. It ticked a lot of boxes on paper so we wanted to come check it out. It is a beautiful area of the country. It reminds me of the Adirondacks in NY. There seems to be good trail accessibility and lots of outdoor stuff to do. I am not sure how anyone could cycle here, the roads are SUPER scary.

The cost of living sure would be a huge bonus for us, but I do have a few concerns about living here, and I do not mean to offend anyone, so please keep that in mind.

I think it may be a bit conservative for me. Although all of the people we have chatted with have been lovely, there seems to be a very strong religious thread running here and we are not religious at all. Down the road that may be a problem. Also I did not expected to see people flying rebel flags. I know that should not bother me, but on some level it does. So maybe this is too far south for a girl that grew up in the northeast? I do not know.

Maybe I should not worry about the religion thing but we had a blow up with our best friends of almost 25 years this winter over religion and it shook me. Over the years as they were raising their family they have become super conservative. It never really bubbled up because we have been friends for so long and because we are always doing stuff. And then I showed them a picture of us at 14,000 feet last summer hanging prayer flags atop a peak out west to honor my Mom. And then it hit the fan
So it has made me gun shy. It probably did not help that when they were saying grace before dinner when the said amen, I said Ommmmmm. I just could not help myself.

But It sure si beautiful country and they have a kicking farmer's market!

[Crankin]

I will answer you, based on my personal experience, living in the south and the west, as a northeastener.
When I moved to Miami as a teen, it was the height of the late 60s. All I saw, sort of blended in to the urban/suburban landscape, were Confederate flags, KKK signs not that far out of town, and other kids telling me I was going to hell because I was Jewish. It was such a culture shock, I didn't speak to my dad for months. Fast forward a few years, when I moved to AZ. That was fine at first. I also had my sheltered little world in a university town and my friends from the Jewish Community Center. Work was full of super conservative teachers and students from one particular religion. I had a great job, a house in a very desireable area, and lots of friends. But in the end, I wanted my kids to grow up with the values I grew up with. It just felt super hard to do it in AZ, as the political climate became increasingly repressive. I think it would have been easier in Tucson, which is more liberal.
I have been enamored of the climate and other recreational activities in quite a few places I have visited, but I know I could never live there. Hence, my list is very short when it comes to places I could actually live. I love where I live and we decided about 5 years ago, we are never moving. This is why we are now living in a smaller townhouse that is paid for. We will travel and maybe buy a small 2nd home in western MA, but I learned a long time ago that there's more to a place than the scenery.

[rocknrollgirl]

but I learned a long time ago that there's more to a place than the scenery.

Yep. I do like it where we live, we are just concerned that it will not be sustainable in retirement. Oh well, time will tell.

[Crankin]

That is why we have downsized now. We don't have any bills except utilities and our condo fee and our own fun!

[emily_in_nc]

RnR, as a North Carolinian, I will comment. I totally, completely get what you are saying. I was born and raised in Raleigh, the state capital, a university town, and much more progressive than either western or eastern NC. There are a few well-known "blue" enclaves in NC, and these tend to be much more tolerant of all forms of diversity (in religion, sexuality, etc. etc.) (I am also not religious.) I always thought Asheville, in the western part of the state, and probably where you are looking, would be included on this list, but according to this site: https://www.roadsnacks.net/these-are-the-10-most-liberal-cities-in-north-carolina/, it is not. However, there is a strong artistic community there, and it is always thought of as a diverse and progressive city.

I have lived in each of the four top cities on the list from the site above, and I can vouch for them. They also have better cycling than the western part of the state, which is mountainous, roads are skinny, most have no shoulders, and very short sight lines. It's absolutely beautiful, but I don't feel comfortable riding in most places in western NC. We own a small piece of property in the NW corner of the state, on a river, and I would not ride my road bike there. I only ride my MTB on the dirt road the property is on, which is very rural and a dead end road.

The cycling in the Piedmont is much better, though you will still run into the occasional problem with loose dogs, rude drivers (who tend to be driving the huge pickup trucks), etc. The rural areas of the Piedmont are a lot more conservative than the cities themselves.

So, you might want to check out Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Hillsborough, and Durham. I am partial to Hillsborough, as it is the smallest of these cities, but they all have their good and bad points. Durham, to me, would be the least cycling friendly of the four. Chapel Hill and Carrboro have the university, some bike lanes and paths, a good farmer's market, lots and lots of crunchy granola types, runners, cyclists, outdoor activities. I love this area and would certainly live there again if the opportunity arises. Chapel Hill is the most expensive of these cities but probably very decent by your northeastern standards.

I know you are a trail runner, and I think you would find places to run in all of these communities. I suspect Umstead Park (which is in Raleigh) is the nicest park for trail running (I've MTB'd there but not run), but I am sure there are many others I am not even aware of.

If you have any questions I can help with, feel free to ask!

[rocknrollgirl]

Thanks Emily. I am sure there will be lots and lost more discussion and searching for us before we make a move. I will check out the places you have mentioned.

[Pax]

Moving to the south has been a huge cultural shock for us. The religious aspects are difficult because the separation of church and state isn't adhered to down here; go to any public school event and they will open and close with a christian prayer. The rebel flags and the culture attached to them is ubiquitous; the conservative political views are also dominant and freely discussed... in the grocery store by a clerk, by the guy at the tire store, coworkers, etc.

[Blueberry]

A current NC person chiming in here.

There are definitely isolated pockets that are more progressive - but as soon as you get outside of them, the culture shock is real. I live in CH. I used to live in Durham. In town, it's mostly OK. I think for day to day cycling (except a very small core in the center of CH), Durham is actually better for biking now. Chapel Hill has won all sorts of awards, but my bike commute sucks (and that's not really unusual). There just aren't safe connectors from some parts of town to other parts of town. Carrboro is better, but very small. Once you get out into the country (where you would do long rides), there is a lot of cyclist hate. Someone told me (though I haven't been able to verify it) that a pace line was shot with pepper spray recently. My DH was hit by a car last week in Wrightsville Beach, NC. On another forum I frequent, a poster was hit on the same day in Greensboro, NC (and the driver was planning to leave the scene). There's a group in the rural areas outside Chapel Hill that absolutely hates cyclists and have been working on advocacy to keep bikes off the road (Schley Grange).

TL; DR: After I finish medical school (residency at the latest), we plan to get the heck out of NC. There's just too much cyclist hate in addition to other hate (HB2, anyone?).

[shootingstar]

"The rebel flags and the culture attached to them is ubiquitous; the conservative political views are also dominant and freely discussed... in the grocery store by a clerk, by the guy at the tire store, coworkers, etc"

Though I am not religious, I do have some degree of tolerance if the person holds conservative views but their heart and actions to others outside their community, consistently demonstrate openness to learn, inclusive for all, and to be compassionate nor do they prosthyletize to me.

I live in a Canadian province that is more gun supportive than some other provinces (but still pretty tame compared to some of the U.S. states which continues to bewilder Canadians with NRA's tactics), also a province that still has a lot of people not trusting govn't at all especially if they can't benefit personally. But interestingly, we have several Muslim and Sikh Canadian politicians at the provincial and federal govn't level so one has to define "religious" when these people have given a lot of themselves in the general public.

On a long term basis, it is doubtful I would find it liberating for myself to live in an area with rebel flags, ant-immigrant sentiment and patronizing attitudes. My attitude is: life is short and I wish to make life easier on myself and give the best of myself in an environment that is more open, less hostile.

Sometimes it's tiring especially for someone like myself who has worked for 3 different government organizations in 3 different Canadian provinces over the past 3 decades. (also worked for small, national and global private firms) I think I know a little by now, about how govn't functions, why it has its flaws (because it has people) and areas where govn't can be good and helpful.

[emily_in_nc]

Everything Blueberry says is true. We lived mostly in the rural area of Orange County near Hillsborough, and we did experience some "cyclist hate" incidents, but very few given the 1000s of miles we rode over the years. However, loose dog incidents were more common, and that's exactly what caused my accident in '05 where I fractured my pelvis and have never been the same (though I've come a long, long way). Despite leash laws, there is a pervading mentality in the south that dogs are for protection and should not have to be restrained. I agree with not chaining dogs, which is cruel, but to leave them free to roam is another matter entirely.

That said, on our recent RV trip through SC, Alabama, Louisiana, and Arkansas, being terrorized by loose dogs was a whole different level than rural NC. I knew within every mile or so cycled on rural roads in the aforementioned states, we were going to be chased by at least one dog, if not a couple or three together. I got to where I didn't even want to ride other than on bike paths or in park boundaries. Since getting into the midwest/plains (not really sure what to call it, but Missouri/Iowa), we have not had ONE dog incident. And we almost never have had problems with dogs anytime we've ridden in the western US. Pepper spray is a must when riding in the southeast, sadly.

All that said, I was born and raised in Raleigh and know many, many educated, progressive, artistic, amazing people. None of my friends or family would ever fly a Confederate flag! I am as liberal as anyone I know, and I wouldn't hesitate to live in Hillsborough, Carrboro, parts of Raleigh, parts of Chapel Hill, or parts of Durham. Even in the rural areas, there are enclaves of progressive types. Our neighborhood of custom homes on 10+ acre lots in Orange County was full of university professors and their ilk.

[rocknrollgirl]

One of the reasons we were attracted to the area is that we do want winter, and the sports that go with it. So I think moving east will probably negate that. Someday that might change but for now, we want to ski and snowshoe.

We were driving a bit on the Blue Ridge Parkway yesterday and chatting and I said to my DH, we really need to stop pressuring ourselves. We are a few years out from retirement and a permanent move would not happen right away, so we have lots of time. We need to enjoy the process and not feel disappointed if a place does not work out. And as much as he would probably ignore what bothers me and move for location, he said that I/we must be 100% comfortable wherever we end up.

All that being said, it is lovely here and he FINALLY got to have some good bbq last night. He just can't get the really good stuff at home. And like I said, we have chatted with some lovely folks.

[Helene2013]

...We were driving a bit on the Blue Ridge Parkway yesterday and chatting and I said to my DH, we really need to stop pressuring ourselves. We are a few years out from retirement and a permanent move would not happen right away, so we have lots of time. We need to enjoy the process and not feel disappointed if a place does not work out.


That is what I keep repeating to husband. We're 2-4 years from retirement and we know we are moving out of this big house and Montreal suburbs. Since all is still so far away - even if it will come sooner than later - there will be a lot of water going under the bridge. It is useless to create scenarios, etc...as we don't even know where we're heading at that time. We'll worry when we get closer to the objective. We know winter will be as snowbirds. Just don't know where. And for the rest of the year, it will have to be somewhere in Canada. Fulltimers in a motorhome...or deciding to buy a modular home on a campground somewhere. Time will tell.

For now, I try to concentrate on living the moment. Needless to see too far ahead.

[obie]

Everything Blueberry says is true. We lived mostly in the rural area of Orange County near Hillsborough, and we did experience some "cyclist hate" incidents, but very few given the 1000s of miles we rode over the years. However, loose dog incidents were more common, and that's exactly what caused my accident in '05 where I fractured my pelvis and have never been the same (though I've come a long, long way). Despite leash laws, there is a pervading mentality in the south that dogs are for protection and should not have to be restrained. I agree with not chaining dogs, which is cruel, but to leave them free to roam is another matter entirely.

That said, on our recent RV trip through SC, Alabama, Louisiana, and Arkansas, being terrorized by loose dogs was a whole different level than rural NC. I knew within every mile or so cycled on rural roads in the aforementioned states, we were going to be chased by at least one dog, if not a couple or three together. I got to where I didn't even want to ride other than on bike paths or in park boundaries. Since getting into the midwest/plains (not really sure what to call it, but Missouri/Iowa), we have not had ONE dog incident. And we almost never have had problems with dogs anytime we've ridden in the western US. Pepper spray is a must when riding in the southeast, sadly.


It's funny, I've always heard about loose dogs being a problem, but I've never come across an issue here in New England somehow - now I see where all the loose dogs are! :D
rocknrollgirl - I just saw my former next door neighbors, who just moved to NC (Hillsborough) and their biggest culture shock is how non-walkable it is - they have to get in the car to do anything! YMMV of course, depending on where you are coming from.

[emily_in_nc]

rocknrollgirl - I just saw my former next door neighbors, who just moved to NC (Hillsborough) and their biggest culture shock is how non-walkable it is - they have to get in the car to do anything! YMMV of course, depending on where you are coming from.

This is true to a large extent, but the more of a cyclist you are, the less limited you are in this way. Sure, if you want to go to the mall, Costco, etc. you have to drive, but we managed to cycle to the farmer's market, food co-op, library, post office, etc. We are definitely on the "fringe", though. :D Heck, we even cycled to Costco in Kansas City (MO) from Prairie Village, KS. Not many would do that, I realize. LOL!

Downtown Hillsborough is very walkable and historic with sidewalks, etc., but once you get to the outskirts, it is more of a haul. Chapel Hill is nicer for those who aspire to drive less -- the bus system is free, and we used to take it all over when we lived there.

But yeah, RnR, if you want to ski, there is a lot more winter in the NC mountains than in the Piedmont. Some years the Piedmont gets a snow or two, but they tend to be of the 1-3" variety. Although in 2000 we got 22+"! But that's very rare. We did enjoy winter hiking there as it can get quite cold, but then often warms right back up to what you would consider spring temps in a day or two. DH still finds NC to have too much winter for him. :rolleyes:

[Skierchickie2]

Sounds to me like you really want to move north, but just don't realize it yet. I highly recommend the U.P., if you want skiing (both kinds) & snowshoeing, plus mountain biking, road biking, trail running,...... The biggest Great Lake,.......

[north woods gal]

Sounds to me like you really want to move north, but just don't realize it yet. I highly recommend the U.P., if you want skiing (both kinds) & snowshoeing, plus mountain biking, road biking, trail running,...... The biggest Great Lake,.......

I'll second that. North central and Northest Wisconsin are cousins to the U.P. NOT places if you don't like winter, though. Comes early and stays late, but that's a good thing for those of us who love winter sports and, this next winter, I'll be adding fat biking to my list of winter fun things to do.