Neck....again. Sigh

[Catrin]

My OD tells me he isn't sure that I should be riding at all. He is fine with my other activities, as long as I don't do any over-head lifting, which I don't attempt any longer. I've nerve entrapment issues in my cervical spine (along with a lot of other things), and it presents in odd ways. He doesn't like even an upright riding position. I am just venting, sort of. I've this lovely full custom bike in the back room and there is a chance I may not get to ride her again. Well, surely SHORT rides would still work. Of course, last year I couldn't ride more than 20-40 minutes at a time because of this very thing.

When I think of all of the crazy, intense things I CAN do with no physical consequences I want to go waaaaaaaaa, why can't I ride? Then again, I CAN do an awful lot that many can't with a bad cervical spine so I really can't complain. Also, I was finally getting to where I want to start riding again when he tells me this. Haruumph.

[Helene2013]

That is just a bummer. So that would mean you can never really ride a bike?

I know mine will say no more running because of knees issues. I keep trying, and I keep hurting. So I've learned to listen (cheat once in a while on treadmill but no more long stretches, just tiny steps running to avoid pounding. I find workarounds that satisfy me, and his recommendations.

Good luck. It sure sucks when you like an activity.

[Crankin]

That is terrible, Catrin. Of course, if it causes pain, you shouldn't do it, but I hate it when someone stops riding.
Are there any other options for second opinions?

[Catrin]

I've had several second opinions over the last 2.5 years, expensive second opinions. It isn't just the consequences/damage from major whiplash, it also the arthritis and bulging disk, and...and. I've had multiple, expensive, courses of physical therapy, ART, and other treatments. Also some of my shoulder and arm problems are actually from my neck. It could be a LOT worse!

Really, it isn't any worse than it has been over the last 2 years. I think I am just becoming more realistic. It is ironic that most of the crazy, intense workouts I do don't appear to have any impact - other than overhead lifting or front squats and I've given those up as neither my shoulder nor neck approves. Really, since the whiplash injury on the mountain bike trail the longest bike ride I've been able to tolerate has, maybe, been as long as 60-80 minutes - and THAT has only happened a couple of times - generally more like 20-40 minutes.

Does this mean I won't do short bike rides? Nah, but it does mean that it won't be the focus of an outing. Thankfully I can still trail run, so perhaps from time to time I can take my bike and enjoy a little spin afterwards. I had just kept hoping that things would just go away and they aren't.

All of that being said, I can't complain about my mobility level, and I am the most fit I've ever been in my life! If I could afford to see my OD more often then things would improve more - as much as they CAN. He's had more effect than anyone.

I also know that there are TE members who have had far more profound neck and spine issues, and I greatly appreciate the support and tips that have come to me since my injury. This is a great community and that has never changed in the years I've been here!

[Wahine]

((((Catrin))))

Here's a little something from the practitioners perspective. It's always a very difficult discussion to have with a patient when you have to tell them something they love is not likely to be that good for them. Keep in mind that we are trained to always think about the worst case scenarios and to recommend the cautious course of action. It comes from having the fear of malpractice driven into us.

Here's my philosophy, I try to explicitly explain to my clients what the worst potential consequences for their actions could be and what I estimate the probability of those consequences are. Then we discuss what the more common results of their actions may be and what the outcome of those results would likely entail. Then I try to help them weigh the pros and cons with special consideration of quality of life.

For example, I had a pro kayaker that suffered a very bad low back disc buldge, he was told by his surgeon that he should never boat again. The reality was that the sitting position in the boat was considered a position of vulnerability and he could further injure his lumbar discs just through regular boating, but the probability of irreversible damage that would impact his function could be lowered dramatically by adjusting his position and by having him do regular exercise. There was however the possibility of very serious injury, for eg paralysis if he chose to run high waterfalls and landed the wrong way. The probability of that was low, but the consequences high. We talked things through extensively and he continues to be a river guide as his profession, but he no longer runs big waterfalls.

The moral of the story is that nothing is black and white and there is often some middle ground that is pretty safe even if it's pretty painful at times. Really it comes down to your own choices in what you can deal with and what isn't worth it in terms of quality of life. But you can only make that choice when you have all the information.

Meanwhile, have you thought about a recumbent?

[OakLeaf]

Aw, Catrin, that stinks. Hugs to you.

[Catrin]

Wahine - thanks for giving your perspective as a practitioner. I understand that he is looking at the worse case scenario, and there is a part of me that would like to set it aside (like that would never happen to me). However, there is a reason why I didn't have a ride in 2013 that was longer than 60 minutes, and there was only 1 that was THAT long :( Just too much pain and neurological symptoms afterwards. In 2012 the symptoms were worse, even though I was still trying to mountain bike that year.

I think part of my frustration is that I can do so many other things that would seem to be more difficult as far as body mechanics are concerned. I do still have to be cautious however, my OD found yesterday that what he thought was light tendinitis in my good shoulder was actually from nerve entrapment in my neck. As soon as he did some very light neck work, all of my "tendinitis" symptoms were gone and my arm/shoulder was suddenly stronger. It isn't the first time my neck has affected my shoulders, especially that one. I suspect that had something to do with the jumping loaded BB squats that we did 2 weeks ago...yes, yes, I know I shouldn't have done that :) There is a lot I CAN do, so I've no right to complain.

Someone else here has suggested before I might want to consider a recumbent. I will think about it, but their very low profile scares me. I might consider a recumbent trike, but I am afraid a new bike isn't in the cards for me this year.

Unsure why my OD seems to do so much better with my neck and shoulder than anyone else has been, and WHAT he does seems so...minimal in comparison. The other practitioners I've seen were just as qualified and, considering the list of letters by their names, may have been considered by some to be more qualified. The exercises he has given me are quite different, just a different approach. I wish I could see him more frequently but that is life. There is only so much improvement that can be expected anyway.

[ny biker]

What scares you about the recumbent? Not being seen?

[Catrin]

What scares you about the recumbent? Not being seen?

Bingo, not being seen - it seems a challenge to be seen on a "regular" bike....and they require a different kind of balance. That being said, a trike would settle that problem right off the bat - I really can't risk falling and re-snapping my neck. Of course, it wouldn't be as long of a fall as from a diamond frame :)

[OakLeaf]

If you're thinking about a 'bent, I'd definitely run it by your doctor first. You can't use your arms and legs as suspension like you do on an upright bike - meaning all the road shocks are transmitted through your spine - and it's exacerbated by the fact that they can't see the road well enough to avoid potholes and rough spots. 'Bent riders I know are pretty miserable on less-than-perfect roads.

As far as being seen, when I'm in the hooks but not a deep tuck on my Synapse, my head is level with my friend's on his Bachetta. I think the main difference as far as conspicuity is on an upright bike you use your clothes, on a 'bent you have to use the seat and/or any luggage.

Something to think about though.

[Catrin]

If you're thinking about a 'bent, I'd definitely run it by your doctor first. You can't use your arms and legs as suspension like you do on an upright bike - meaning all the road shocks are transmitted through your spine - and it's exacerbated by the fact that they can't see the road well enough to avoid potholes and rough spots. 'Bent riders I know are pretty miserable on less-than-perfect roads.

As far as being seen, when I'm in the hooks but not a deep tuck on my Synapse, my head is level with my friend's on his Bachetta. I think the main difference as far as conspicuity is on an upright bike you use your clothes, on a 'bent you have to use the seat and/or any luggage.

Something to think about though.

Thanks Oakleaf, that is very interesting. I don't know that I really want one, there is just something about that riding position that doesn't look fun to me - but of course that doesn't mean much. I didn't realize that about how the road shocks are transmitted, but that makes sense. Something to consider for sure, and as I said, if I DO decide to try it, it won't be this year. My little 20-40 minute rides in the park are certainly far less expensive...if short. I just need to determine if those short rides are doing me more damage than I know, given the consequences that follow most of those rides.

[smilingcat]

car drivers say that they didn't see you on a recumbent.

Standard question we (recumbent, trike, and velo rider) ask the driver is can they see the marking on the pavement. Answer is almost always yes. 'bends" are much higher off the pavement than the marking. I have a very colorful gaudy flag, streamer attached to a 6 foot pole. If you can't see it from a mile away, something is wrong with your eye. Velomobile is fully faired and almost always have suspension on all three wheels. They are normally painted in obnoxiously bright color. Some have flourescent flames painted on the side. Others have made it look like Jaws (shark) with added fins.

There are many trikes equipped with suspension on all three wheels. Many bends have rear suspension. On a long wheel base bends (front wheel is beyond your feet) the shock from the bump do not transfer all that much to your seat. Some even have springs in the seat beside the shocks for the rear wheel. Seat position is usually set back to about 40-50degrees from flat and your back rest is suspended so again less shock. Mine has a neck rest so my shoulder and neck is relaxed. Even on a rough road, my trike does not chatter my teeth or cause my glasses to slide down. And my trike has single suspension for the rear. I picked up a used one for $500 and had it shipped from Tx for about $80.00. It's an entry level because I wanted to see what it was like. Being seen is not a problem. I can also easily carry two or three full grocery bags. No worry about balance.

So your visibility isn't all that different than a regular bike. If you yahoo it and go around the corner way too fast, you can tip them over to the side.

[Catrin]

Very interesting Smilingcat! Very interesting. How hard is it to transport your trike? I didn't know they come with suspensions.

[smilingcat]

My trike is like a MAC truck. It's designed to handle a 400 pound person easily. So the frame is built extra heavy duty... It is also very long unlike a typical trike. Mine has to be broken down in order to fit in a car. All three wheels are 406 or 20" in diameter. If I want to go anywhere, I have to use my partner's pkup to haul my trike around. And its so heavy that I can't just lift it into the truck.

Terratrike, Catrike, ICE and Greenspeed will be much easier to fit in a car such as my Prius. Fold down the back seat in your car and you may have to take off the back wheel and fold down the back rest of the trike... really not much more than a regular bike. Check out their web site and watch some youtube videos. And don't be shocked by the price tag. You can find a lightly used trike for much cheaper price.

I think someone has a rack to transport a trike as well. here it is http://www.hitchrider.com/trikes.htm as an example. This is if you don't want to put your trike inside your car.

There may be a recumbent shop near you so search for it and go take a look.

[Fredwina]

Have you tried riding a trike? They are a blast,

[Blueberry]

Have you tried riding a trike? They are a blast,

This is SO true! DH and I test rode them a few years. They are like little go-carts! We would own them except we already have a lot of bikes, and have no where to store them that is convenient. Plus, we know we'll be moving (potentially to somewhere a lot smaller depending on if/where I get in med school and then (hopefully) where I match for residency) - too much uncertainty for now. But I will have one one day!

[Catrin]

This is SO true! DH and I test rode them a few years. They are like little go-carts! We would own them except we already have a lot of bikes, and have no where to store them that is convenient. Plus, we know we'll be moving (potentially to somewhere a lot smaller depending on if/where I get in med school and then (hopefully) where I match for residency) - too much uncertainty for now. But I will have one one day!

I must admit that this becomes more interesting the more I hear and look at pictures. Unsure how realistic it would be with my car and an upstairs apartment, but it is worth of lengthy consideration. For now, my budget won't allow anything like this, even at a good price. My goal for 2014 is to finally develop an emergency fund, and I am afraid that buying a new bike isn't the way to get there. Perhaps, however, in 2015...

[Rebecca19804]

Hi Catrin

Sorry to hear of your dilemma. :(

If you've got a bit of time on your hands at some point, my friend Helen's blog (http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk/)may be of interest. Due to a problem with one arm so that she can't put weight on it, she cycles (extensively!) on a series of recumbent trike. She doesn't talk much about her health problem on her blog, but you can get a feel for all the types of riding she does, here in the UK and in Germany, with the trikes.

All the best

[smilingcat]

If you've got a bit of time on your hands at some point, my friend Helen's blog may be of interest.
Your friend, Helen, has a wonderful web site. Spent some time reading about her test ride and purchase of the velomobile.

She pointed out lot of pluses of a velomobile and a trike that people may not be aware of. So please let her know I appreciate all the information she has provided.

It is definitely worth spending time reading her posts.

Thanks.

[Catrin]

It is indeed a very nice blog, thanks for posting it! I probably won't go this route for a couple of reasons, but it sounds like your friend has had, and is having a great deal of fun with it! The information is quite useful and thanks!

[Catrin]

Is there some sort of physical therapist/bike fitter or coach you could go to to work on your position and posture? Like how to align and pull up while on a bike? Kind of suspicious if there are other things that don't affect. Being locked into a position on a bike can exacerbate small things.

I don't mean bike fit. I'm thinking about how you align your spine. Maybe?

Done this, several times :( The problem is that there are so MANY things going on with both my cervical spine and shoulders, multiple nerve entrapments, etc. I've been told an even more upright riding position will likely solve it, but frankly, my fitter tells me that would require the kind of changes that might affect handling. It isn't that other things don't cause problems, I just don't DO those other things :rolleyes:

It is quite possible that I need a PT/Fitter with a different skills set and experience, but that isn't available in central Indiana.

[OakLeaf]

that isn't available in central Indiana.

Sounds to me like Wahine needs to go on a nationwide tour to advertise her new business.

[Catrin]

Sounds to me like Wahine needs to go on a nationwide tour to advertise her new business.

Yep, her and Knotted :)

[Catrin]

Also, to be clear, my neck does have issues pretty much 100% of the time. When I say that <insert crazy activities here> doesn't bother it, I mean that XYZ activities doesn't make it worse then or over the following 24 hours that I have noticed. It isn't that my neck is perfectly normal except during/after riding. I went back and read my earlier wording and it could be interpreted that way but that isn't the case. My coach and I have figured out <insert crazy activities here> that are safe, those that are acceptable if I focus on 100% perfect form, and those that I simply cannot attempt or should not do. It is a balance, and the reason I still am paying the extra fees to be in the small group environment. He keeps me from hurting myself...

If I didn't love riding so much it would already be on the "NO" list. Trying very hard not to put it there, we will see how things go this spring. That mountain bike purchase was almost an impulse buy, little did I know what the full cost would be. I do not regret it however, it was certainly fun when things were working for me!

[Dogmama]

Sorry to hear about your neck from another neck sufferer. I still ride, albeit not the long distances that I used to do.

BUT - like you said - we're in MUCH better shape than most people our age and younger!

[Catrin]

Sorry to hear about your neck from another neck sufferer. I still ride, albeit not the long distances that I used to do.

BUT - like you said - we're in MUCH better shape than most people our age and younger!

Good for you Dogmama! I am glad that you are still riding. I will see how things go this spring, but if I am still limited to 20 minute rides with neurological consequences, I will hang up my helmet. I don't want to do that, but there are so many other things that I CAN do without the same level of after-effects. I've seen everyone local that I can see with the qualifications to help me with proper bike fit/positioning. I wish Wahine or Knotted lived here, if anyone could help me on this it would be them :)

[azfiddle]

Catrin, I do hope that a recumbent or trike might work for you. One of the gals on my team is close to 70 and rides her recumbent everywhere, and I mean everywhere. Let us know if that ends up being a solution for you.

Sharon

[Catrin]

Catrin, I do hope that a recumbent or trike might work for you. One of the gals on my team is close to 70 and rides her recumbent everywhere, and I mean everywhere. Let us know if that ends up being a solution for you.

Sharon

At this time it isn't even an option. I live upstairs with a narrow staircase and with my neck and shoulder it would be difficult to get in/out of the building, and then would have to transport it somewhere to ride. Perhaps at some future time it might be more viable, but I will certain keep it in mind!

[emily_in_nc]

Bummed that you might have to stop riding, Catrin, but I understand your dilemma. And I agree that carrying a recumbent or trike up stairs would do your neck and shoulders no favors. The only possible option would be a much lighter-weight short-wheelbase (SWB) recumbents. I believe they weigh in the same range as upright bikes, so if you're able to carry your Gunnar up and down, that could be an option. Have known several folks with various back or neck issues (including a good buddy who has chronic neck pain) who have found relief on a 'bent. But as others have pointed out, they could actually aggravate certain issues, so it's just very hard to say.

I surely wish you the best, no matter what! And am still very grateful for your Jamis -- it's been a wonderful bike for me over the past almost-year now!

[Catrin]

It isn't the weight - it is the different geometry with trying to get a 3-wheeled bike up my stairs, and then trying to transport it. A trike won't fit my expensive bike rack, and I've enough of a problem getting my Gunnar into the back. I've not yet decided, but we will see. I want to give the Gunnar another chance this spring, and I DO have a lot of other fitness activities that I can do with relatively little repercussions if I am smart about it.

[Pax]

I've been doing less biking and more swimming in the last couple of years; similar reasons, I love to bike but it's not worth the pain after longer rides. Now I stick to more short scenic MUP pleasure rides.

[emily_in_nc]

It isn't the weight - it is the different geometry with trying to get a 3-wheeled bike up my stairs, and then trying to transport it. A trike won't fit my expensive bike rack,

I understand -- was just wondering about a two-wheeled short wheelbase recumbent, not a trike. I realize that won't work. But any 'bent may not fit your bike rack or your budget, so it's a good thing you have other activities you enjoy and can do!

[Rebecca19804]

Your friend, Helen, has a wonderful web site. Spent some time reading about her test ride and purchase of the velomobile.

She pointed out lot of pluses of a velomobile and a trike that people may not be aware of. So please let her know I appreciate all the information she has provided.

It is definitely worth spending time reading her posts.

Thanks.

Helen asked me to post this reply on her behalf! :)

"From Auntie Helen: Thanks so much for the comments about my blog - I'm glad to know that it's helpful. I don't dwell too much on the medical reasons for riding (which are many - I have recumbenting friends who ride because of neck, back, leg, balance and arm problems) as I think there are more significant reasons for riding a recumbent and a trike in particular - fun, safe, fast (not that I personally am fast). There are of course disadvantages (the space they take in storage, difficulties on some trains, they cost more than normal bikes) but the advantages very significantly outweigh the disadvantages.

For Catrin, the recumbent trike world is very friendly and lots of people lend out their trikes to people for test rides (my spare trike regularly goes to other people who have short-term injuries or just want to give it a go) so it's possible you might be able to borrow/hire one near to you to see if it might help you out - or to help you rule it out completely (although I think you've already decided it's probably not the best option). There are lots of Americans on the ICE Trikes Yahoo Group, for example, as I think ICE sell well across the pond.

Anyway, I'm glad that people enjoyed reading my blog. I'm moving to Germany in a month's time and will be doing lots more cycling in my Velomobile and on my trike whilst there, plus will be sampling lots of different German cakes and pastries, so I hope some of you will come back and have a read now and again at www.auntiehelen.co.uk.

Auntie Helen"

[emily_in_nc]

...the recumbent trike world is very friendly and lots of people lend out their trikes to people for test rides (my spare trike regularly goes to other people who have short-term injuries or just want to give it a go) so it's possible you might be able to borrow/hire one near to you ...

I can vouch for this. While I was out riding on N. Padre Island, where we spent January, I came up upon a woman on a recumbent trike. I told her I liked her bike, and she immediately said "Want to try it?"

I didn't, because the last thing I need is another bike now with our nomadic lifestyle (already can't bring all three of my bikes along), but I thanked her just the same. She said she had gotten it due to multiple physical limitations and she absolutely loved it. She was quite slow but was definitely enjoying the ride. I thought it was neat she immediately offered to let me try it it. I am sure it's fun!

[Fredwina]

I'll agree, trikes a hoot!