Mega sticky friend dilemma

[Reesha]

I am suddenly embroiled in this horrible, awful, sticky, terrible situation. I'm going to try to explain enough of it without any revealing specifics for the sake of privacy, but I really need some advice on this one. I really really really don't know what to do.

My coworker and I are good friends. Her DH opened a restaurant last year with some of his friends/fans as investors about the same time they got married. My DBF was offered a job managing the office/accounting side of things. She and I share an office and a curriculum.

Recently her DH left the restaurant. My DBF told me the night of, but I figured friend would tell me when I came back to work on Monday. We usually talk about this stuff. Five days go by... giant elephant in the room! I tell her that I know he left, that I'm not asking questions, and she says she's not talking about it. I think to myself this is unusual for her, but I figure her DH is moving onto other projects and she doesn't want to talk about it.

Yesterday (nearly two weeks after her DH initially left the restaurant) I went by the day the place was closed to pick up my DBF. Owner/bar manager and new executive chef and DBF sit me down. They drop the biggest bomb I have ever heard on me. Basically her DH has been stealing from the restaurant. Restaurant is owned by a partnership of four people and he was siphoning off money here and there (in addition to his salary) and gambling it all away. (I knew he liked to gamble, as does she-- but not the extent). What is worse is that he was taking a salary for 6 months and my friend didn't know about it. She thought he was not taking a salary to help ensure the success of the restaurant. Really he was spending it all at the casino.

The other owners and my DBF continued to find ways to cut him off... including cutting off his salary as a punishment so that he'd stop stealing money. I guess things came to a head recently and he was fired, made to leave and they are working on how to extricate him from the partnership. He may be sued for the stolen money that is more than what his stake in the company is worth. My friend is in the dark about all of this, but she may have no other option but to be drawn into the legal situation.

Anyway, I think they told me because they aren't allowed to talk to her but are hoping that I will warn her somehow. We have a professional relationship of 4 years to maintain-- we are absolute partners in our job. I also have a friendship to maintain. Honestly though she's a very rational person and won't believe anything without evidence and the owners are not able to tell her what she needs to know. I figure the best thing to do might be to suggest that she needs to grill her DH. I really don't know what to do. It's the end of the schoolyear... it's crazy... if she finds out now there will be no time to process and she won't be able to take time away. On the other hand it would keep her busy during a trying time. Part of me thinks it might be best to wait until things have calmed down at work. On the other hand, she deserves to know immediately. I really believe telling her is going to stress/temporarily ruin our friendship. What to do?

Urgh. I need help. Yes I do. Sticky, sticky, sticky.

[Penny4]

That is sticky and I'm sorry you are in that position.
I'm still thinking about what I would do. My initial reaction was Stay out of it! But then I thought, wouldn't I want my friend to tell me?
I really can't say either way because you also have a professional relationship with her which is something to consider.

However, one key line that stands out is:
Anyway, I think they told me because they aren't allowed to talk to her but are hoping that I will warn her somehow.

If you aren't sure they want you to tell her, this coudl make things even worse if you are not supposed to....

[Reesha]

Oh I should clarify. No they definitely want me to warn her. That much is clear. They also told her cousin who works in the industry locally and is close with her. I think the better word is that it's their hope/expectation that we will do our best to protect her.

[pll]

I suspect she may know at least part of the story -- the 'she's not talking about it' response suggests that to me. Else she might have shared some story in which her H is the victim. I think I would stay out. Gambling is addictive and addictions supersede rational behavior; it makes couple relationships crumble.

[shootingstar]

I think she must know something if she is unwilling to even mention why her hubby has left the restaurant.

My immediate reaction as a good friend within a professional work relationship, at some point later is to express you're around to do the best job with her, that you appreciate her as a professional colleague.

When she does tell you, I would tend to signal that your committment to her to do the best job on the job with her and that what her husband might have done is not related to what both you do on the job at school.

If she is very trustworthy as a work colleague, then most likely her relationship with her hubby is under great stress right now. It's probably a super tough time for her if she knows something but cannot reveal. Or it's about fly into the storm.

But if you wanted, to signal that you are there to listen to her. Maybe away from work environment and mention this.

[lph]

Wow. My gut reaction is if this is a close friend, loyalty to her comes first. It doesn't really matter how you found out about the stealing, but now you do know, and at some point she will know that you know. You don't have to tell her everything, but you can say that you've heard some of what's happened (but you haven't heard the dh's side of it), it sounds pretty serious, that she really needs to talk with her dh if she hasn't, and that you're there for her if she needs support. Then she can ask you for more details if she wants.

I can imagine that she suspects but doesn't want to admit it, is unhappy and maybe too ashamed to talk about it. I would be, if it were me. Knowing that you know some of it and are ok with it may be a big help. This sounds like gambling addiction, and she may need to know that not everyone thinks that her dh is evil and that she is dumb and naive.

But it depends on your relationship with her. You have to judge if her keeping her pride is more important, since you have a professional relationship with her too. Either way it will be uncomfortable. My sympathies!

[Reesha]

My impression and her cousins is that her DH has been busily maligning everyone who works at the restaurant. We suspect that he's told her there's been some disagreement resulting in a buyout.

It's just awful. She loves her DH so very much-- I was there from the beginning of their relationship, went to her wedding... her cousin and I are just shocked and stunned. DBF feels terrible (has for a year) and confessed that he feels like he knows her DH better than she does. It's just tragic. She is probably being asked to trust him 100% and she probably is doing just that. I just wish she'd ask me questions. That would certainly make it easier. But she seems to be operating under instructions not to talk at all.

DBF had an idea (brainstorm style) last night that maybe I should let her DH know that I know somehow to make him nervous enough to tell her. I backed away from that one immediately-- I just don't want to go there. But I think if I make more of a concerted effort to hang with her outside of work, he might get nervous to do the same. I don't think he's going to be able to lie forever.

[Reesha]

Also, I think she knows I am there to listen. Always have been in the last four years. What would amaze me would be if he said everyone at the restaurant has been lying (3 other owners, my DBF, former chef de cuisine, manager) and it's him vs. them and she doesn't question that at all. That should raise some alarm bells for her.

Perhaps I should stick to my gut reaction and keep an eye on her and let her know I'm there if she needs me. If she gets the impression that I'm worried about her she may start to suspect enough to ask tougher questions.

[OakLeaf]

Addiction is complicated and nasty. If she's a gambler too, even if she's not addicted the way he is, then she's got to have some really strong mechanisms in place keeping her from seeing his issues all along. It's quite possible that she IS addicted, but that she's just at a different place from him on the path towards the bottom. This sounds a lot like a younger me with alcohol and my alcoholic ex-husband (who hit bottom a few years after we split up).

I think that sadly, the friendship is at risk no matter what you do, because her mechanisms of denial may cause her to cut you off if you say anything to her OR if she feels you've been holding back. You've got to do the thing that you'll blame yourself for the least if everything goes to h*ll - the thing that you can best live with in your heart. It sounds like that's telling her.

[Reesha]

She is not a gambler thankfully. Because she keeps normal work hours and he didnt, he'd just go out all night. This has always been his habit and she never worried about it much. I think she's gone with him once or twice, but honestly she likes shopping too much to make a habit of it. She won't give him money either, but she is providing him with all the necessities of life. I know she's been struggling with him about the salary thing. She really thought he wasn't bringing home any money to help out with living expenses for a full year (six months of those he was getting paid). That he was getting a salary just kills me. We just thought he was being generous toward the restaurant. Oh the lies.

I'm not prepared to sacrifice our professional relationship over this. We both value it and if work is miserable for us, what is there? We are a team. We have kids to teach. Thus I am starting to think the best choice is to take a more passive role... let her know I'm there and that I'm concerned about her and leave it up to her to ask the tough questions when she's ready.

[pll]

I woke up this morning thinking about this and I still think the best course is to stay out of it. Either she knows or she's been told a story where DH was pushed out by the evil partners (most likely with the help of DBF...). In the latter story, if you step in, you become one more in the team of evil DH wrong doers. I think it's better to preserve your work relation and be there if she needs you down the line.

[Catrin]

Oh my, this couldn't be stickier, and regardless it is hard seeing a friend and business partner you care for going through this. Given that she has been so quiet on this does indicate that she knows/suspects something.

Given my recent "putting both feet in mouth" incident I've no business giving advice - but I like your idea about putting yourself in a supportive role. Letting her know that you are there/concerned for her does indirectly indicate that you know at least something of what is going on and may make it easier for her to broach the topic and is quite different from simply remaining silent. The professional relationship does make things more complex, but in the end you have to do what you can live with - regardless of how all of this comes out.

[NbyNW]

Been thinking about this since you posted ... it's one thing to let your friend know that you are there for her but if she is in the dark about the truth there is potential for big miscommunication and hurt feelings down the road. She is going to be hurt no matter what, whether it's by DH or whether it's because she feels a need to shoot the messenger.

Can you work with her cousin to talk with her together, get the facts out in the air? If it's two of you ripping off a band-aid rather than just one, you may be able to present a united front in delivering painful information but still letting her know that you are on her side.

[margo49]

I was in a work situation with someone at the centre of a nasty relationship - new relationships on both sides - divorce proceedings - community gossip situation.

I decided to never open the subject on the theory that she would then have 8 protected hours a day when she didn't have to worry about it or worry about what I as thinking about it/her/ everyone and everything.

She very much appreciated it. To have space and time to be herself - a very good and experienced child care worker - and not the person temporarily at the centre of attention for all this "spicy" gossip and being all confused and mixed up with the turmoil of ending and beginning a relationship at the same time

[Savra]

I always hesitate giving advice since I'm bound to "put my foot in my mouth" as well. With that said - I want to offer one take that has not been said yet. It looks like this issue is already a legal issue. Your friend and her husband may already have hired a lawyer or are figuring they are in legal trouble - hence her stance on not wanting to talk about it. Anything she says to you may have to come up in court - if it comes to that. Just as anything you say to her can be used in court - if it comes to that. Even if you don't want to testify in a court hearing saying things against her or her husband - you can still be subpoenaed. So, you may be able to offer simple moral support but with the legal issues hanging out there - I wouldn't expect her to want to confide in you.
I could be wrong - I often am. I just figured I would point this out.

[Reesha]

Honestly I'm not certain of anything. Based on the conversations she has with her husband while in our office she is still 100% trusting and 100% in love. My heart breaks for her.

You're right... they may already have a lawyer and the like. Her cousin and his wife are thinking about how to handle it and I may just let her worry about it. She probably doesn't want to sully our work relationship with this stuff anyway, especially since my boyfriend works at the restaurant. If he didn't, well... it might be a different story.

[Reesha]

I got some new news that she and her family are literally buying a new restaurant for him. This news broke of course before the other situation has been settled-- he owes the prior restaurant a great deal of money.

Her cousin told me first and then she told me this morning all excited. I of course felt nothing but sick and told her I was excited for her and left the room. I am not sure I can even share an office with her today knowing what I know and knowing how badly she could get fleeced in this situation.

[pll]

Wow.

[Sky King]

I got some new news that she and her family are literally buying a new restaurant for him. This news broke of course before the other situation has been settled-- he owes the prior restaurant a great deal of money.

Her cousin told me first and then she told me this morning all excited. I of course felt nothing but sick and told her I was excited for her and left the room. I am not sure I can even share an office with her today knowing what I know and knowing how badly she could get fleeced in this situation.

Okay, to me it sounds like it is time for you to come clean with her - ie Dear Friend, This is the word out on the street... While I am withholding judgement I felt I should let you know this is what others are saying and because of that I am worried about you. -

[indysteel]

Wow.

Ditto x 1,000.

[Irulan]

Sounds like a good time to detach from the whole situAtion. You can still care about your friend without losing energy to her problems. If you are getting ill from her stuff it's a pretty good sign that you may be too invested in something that is ultimately none of your business. I know that letting go of good friends issues is really tough. As a friend we think we should be there to help and support, but there comes a point when it's good to step back, realize they are adults a fully capable of making their own (bad)'decisions, and that you have zero control over it. I've been know to set a boundary- an example might be, I really care about you, but I find this very upsetting and I need to not listen to any of it anymore, as in " not a topic for discussion ever" kind of thing. That may be one way to keep your sanity.
.

[Dogmama]

Chalk up another one for "stay out of it." Bad idea to get between husband & wife. Worse idea to get between same couple if an addiction is involved. She may be enabling him, for whatever reason. If so, she may regard your support as meddling in her affairs.

Also, a family member is aware of the situation. If anybody gets involved, it should be that person. And if she should ever question you about not telling her, you could simply explain that 1. It was none of your business 2. Your information was secondhand 3. Because a cousin was aware of the situation, it was up to him/her to get involved. You are a co-worker first, IMO.

Finally, DH and I always know where the other person is. I find it strange that her DH would disappear for hours to gamble & she doesn't know something is up. Thus - my advice for staying out of it. There may be lots more here than is being told.

[Irulan]

http://www.gam-anon.org/

for friends and families of someone who gambles.
(for you, your friend can decide to go on her own)

[owlice]

One of my greatest regrets in life is not having said something when it could have helped alert someone to someone else's behavior.

There is potential for financial disaster here. What kind of person lets someone become ruined just for lack of a few well-chosen words? If the cousin/someone else closer to her doesn't say anything, you have to. I'm sorry to disagree with so many others here, but someone has to say something to her, and if no one else does, be a true, rather than convenient, friend to her and do it. You think she won't feel totally betrayed when she learns -- as she surely will eventually -- that others had but withheld information from her? Is she going to want to be friends with you when she learns that you were one of those people? Why add humiliation to the mix?

Take her out (away from work), let her know you're there for her, tell her what you've heard, acknowledge that you don't have her husband's side of the story, and then let her know that you will never bring this up again if she prefers that you not. Let her know that you value her, her work, your friendship.

It might help if you appear confused about what the whole story is -- because you don't have the whole story -- and are just letting her know that you've been hearing some things that seem off but don't really understand all of it. This is the Miss Manners method of appearing not to totally understand something for the sake of helping the other person save face; if you're familiar with her advice, you'll recognize the technique, and if you aren't familiar with her advice, please know that I am not doing it justice!

You may not lose the friendship if you do tell her, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts you'll definitely lose it once she finds out you were one of the people who didn't say anything, even if the only utility to her of that information is to let her know that other people have been told something of the situation. How she addresses this, what she does with the information, is up to her, but really, someone has to let her know.

Or, you know, what Sky King said so much more succinctly than I did!

[indysteel]

I vote stay out of it. This isn't just a situation where a friend is in trouble and you're in a position to help. A crime was allegedly committed here and the OP's boyfriend may be involved, ultimately, in either a criminal or civil action involving it. For that reason, don't complicate it further by interjecting yourself any further. One possible scenario: You tell her your concerns and then she confides in you something even more damning or incriminating about her husband and, god forbid, admits that she was somehow involved. Then where are you? Leave it to her cousin to intervene.

[Reesha]

Thank you, ladies for all your valued opinions.

I'm going to err on the side of letting it go and not talking about it. The reason of course is that I cannot conceive of her cousin (with whom her entire family is very close) not finding a way to let her family or her know the situation. Either way she will find out when the settlement happens. He doesn't have any money and since he owes tens of thousands, they would be right to ask questions before paying up. And maybe not. Cousin should take care of it. If I were family I'd be all over that.

If she finds out I knew something, I will tell her that I didn't feel right approaching it since I didn't have her husband's side of the story and it ultimately wasn't any of my business.

Financial ruin is not a possibility here. Financial set back is, but her family is pretty extensively wealthy and there's a finite amount of money that will be invested in the business. Also they have a prenup to protect her family's wealth.

[Catrin]

Reesha, I am glad you came up with a way to deal with this sticky situation that you can live with - that latter being the most important. It is good to read that she and her family is protected with a prenup. It is astounding that her cousin hasn't filled her in yet, but as you said, she will at least find out when the settlement happens. It is really hard to go where family should and aren't (yet).

[pll]

Let's not assume the cousin has not spoken yet! Often times, people only hear what they want hear and nothing else. I am dealing with an issue with my sister (and her long time boyfriend), but in her soap opera, I am the villain.

[Reesha]

I know for a fact her cousin hasn't spoken yet. I think he will though in the near future. I can't imagine knowing all that, belonging to the family, and doing nothing.

But you're right about soap operas and people hearing what they want to hear and nothing else. As others have said, denial can be really deep and powerful.