My Puppy Is Disgusting

[Aggie_Ama]

Jens is the worst puppy ever, he is now four months but not showing improvement. I love him to bits but I think my husband is at his wits end. He is practically impossible to potty train.

1. In the morning he won't wake but he will whine with the alarm. When I take him out he reeks of urine. I don't know if the alarm is making him pee or he is just peeing on himself. He is kenneled at night.
2. He will be outside for 30 minutes then poop or pee on the floor. We have tried praising him outside but he will just want to play.
3. We kennel Heidi (10 years) and him while we are at work in a laundry room. It is small but big for Schnauzers. We come home, Heidi is in her bed because Jens has peed and pooped all over the room. The fact that he can't hold it isn't the bad part, he seems to play in it!

What should we try? What worked on Heidi isn't working with Jens.

[Rebekah H]

If you have any luck with any suggestions that are offered, please let me know. I have a five month old Basset Hound, MudFlap, who is the sweetest little girl ever, but quite possibly the dumbest, hardest to train dog I've ever had. She pees on everything, poops after I've had her out for a while, and doesn't seem to be able to learn "stay" to save her life. She's super lucky she's so dang adorable. LOL

[jessmarimba]

I know nothing about training dogs. But I've managed to get one cat to learn things like "sit" and "lay" while the other one will claw my fingers off if I'm holding a treat to teach her anything.

My coworker's dog has managed to (finally!) learn his bathroom habits but peed on the floor for MONTHS at our office...and knows absolutely no commands. I'd guess some just need more patience, and some might never learn.

[marni]

talk with your vet and make sure there are no medical issues. He/she might also have some good ideas about training or perhaps can supply the name of a behavioral trainer.

I have a little rescue corgie who has the memory span of a gold fish and cannot learn sit, stay, or no bark, While she does ocassionally miss the brass and pee on the edge of the porch, at least she is basically toilet trained.

Marni

[badger]

My heart goes out to you. I fostered 2 puppies and one adult who weren't house broken and I know how exhausting and frustrating it is to always be cleaning up after them. The only difference is that I knew they were temporary, whereas with you it's for the long haul.

I'm sure there are other TE ladies with loads of puppy experience who can impart more wisdom. I hope things go well for you.

[Trek-chick]

My Lab only had one accident in the house as a pup and it was my fault. I took her out ALL the time. At least every few hours and after eating, drinking, playing and through the night I would wake up and make her go out.

Another option may be to let the puppy be around another dog and watch that dog do it's business outside. I think dogs learn best from other dogs anyway.

[rubysoho]

I have had great luck with routine. I have raised two puppies with each only having 1 or 2 accidents in the house, ever. Essentially I have set times for food and water and I don't vary from that. First thing in the AM - out for a walk. Eat, drink as much water as pup wants. Out for another walk before I go to work. Crate while I am at work. Come home at lunch. Immediately take outside for poop/pee. Puppy eats (I feed three times a day when they are under 6 months of age) and offer water again. Walk and back into crate before I head to work. Come home, walk pup immediately. Dinner is always offered around 6pm along with as much water as pup wants. No food or water after 8 or 9pm. Walking immediately after dinner and again thirty minutes later. I take them out every hour when I am home. If they can't make the hour I go out every half hour. Basically I want to get the pup outside before they have a chance to go in the house. If pup is super small (like my second pup) I will get up in the middle of the night to offer a quick pee/poo but I *do not* play with pup at this time.

It is all about getting the pup outdoors before the urge strikes them. Play time excites them and with that comes the urge to potty. Same with food, new people, etc... :rolleyes:

I like crate training for multiple reasons. First, a well crate trained dog is going to be less stressed if ever there is an emergency situation that requires crating. Or if ever needed to be crated at a vet, etc... Second, the smaller space (pup/dog should be able to get up, turn around, stand without crouching - but not enough space for playin) discourages the pup/dog from pottying. However it is important to be able to get them out of the crate enough before an accident because you don't want them getting used to being in their own pee/poo. Since your pup is playing in it, you might already have this problem. But if you aren't opposed to crate training then it is worth a shot.

Anyway, good luck! It is super frustrating and very taxing on a relationship so hopefully the pup will grow out of this soon.

[Biciclista]

my best buddy is a dog trainer. this is what she said:
1. he is a he, male puppies are completely different when house breaking. Generally they can't hold it as long as females.
2. He is FOUR months old. At this age I am taking my puppy out every 2 hours MAXIMUM.
3. I do not expect an potty "alert" from a dog this age, that's MY job.
4. He can NOT go all night without having to go out.
5. Is he being taken out on lead? Don't even get me started there. If he doesn't do business you take him back in the house and crate him for 5 minutes, then you go back out on lead, repeat repeat repeat until you have success.
6. Get professional help on how to house break a dog.
7. This is not the dogs fault. He's been screwing up for months now because they set him up to fail.
8. I'm stopping now because I'm feeling really sorry for the dog.....

Puppies are not for the faint of heart, they are like having a 2 year kid....forever.

[PamNY]

+1 on everything Mimi said.

The puppy is NOT disgusting -- he is untrained. A medical checkup is the first order of business here, to rule out physical causes.

Second, you must take seriously how long he is capable of holding urine at his age. Nothing you do will change the physical reality of his body.

Good luck -- I know it's frustrating. But it's not the dog's fault.

[grey]

I've housebroken a few, seeing as I get strays and castoffs all the time. Housebreak them, teach them some basic manners (my dogs help with all of this), then find them homes. It is NO FUN. But great once they get it!

Anyway. Your pup is four months, he may not be able to hold it very long yet. He may need to go out every hour for a while, once you see that's ok, then start extending the time by 30 minutes. Zoe, our 18 month old, was really slow in this regard. We got to 4 hours and that was the limit for a while. She wasn't allowed back in until business was done (winter helps with this, a short haired dog will want back in!). My husband is a night owl, he'd take her out at midnight, then I'd get up at 5 am to get her outside again. This also helps with the crate never getting soiled.

I *think* the hard part for you is, you both work outside the home. I work from home, most of the time, so my dogs have the easy life. For the first week I have a new dog around, especially a pup, I have them leashed to me, or in the same room with me. ANY sign of an incident about to occur, and they get told "no, not here" - scooped up and taken outside and told "ok, go potty" in an upbeat voice. I never yell, or spank.

We also cut off water access after 10pm. It's not a problem anymore, so free access is always there again now, it was just during potty training.

When we left home, and Zoe was at an age where we no longer felt the need to crate her, she would be left in the kitchen/dining area with our oldest, Stu, who really hates it when a mess is made on the floor. We would leave a limited amount of water out then also. Again, now there's a huge bowl that's always available. Once they "get it" it's smooth sailing from there.

[pumpkinpony]

my best buddy is a dog trainer. this is what she said:

5. Is he being taken out on lead? Don't even get me started there. If he doesn't do business you take him back in the house and crate him for 5 minutes, then you go back out on lead, repeat repeat repeat until you have success.
Puppies are not for the faint of heart, they are like having a 2 year kid....forever.

Good advice. If he doesn't go while he's outside, crate him as soon as you come in. In addition, a technique I've seen used that works well is 'tethering' the dog to you at all times. Don't give him free run of the house.

Here's one website for some basic training techniques, and one of them talks about the tethering.
http://www.shirleychong.com/index.html

[smilingcat]

Everything mimi said, and don't give up. My partner has had dogs in the past and they took a very long time to learn. Longest was 6 month. He was a slow learner in everything.

My discussion with her regarding your dog:

Take him out ON A LEASH every two hours or so.

Thing to realize is that HE IS GETTING DISTRACTED WITH PLAY and forgets why he is out there. If he gets distracted with play, bring him back in crate him for 5 minutes then take him out again. Repeat until he does his business.

And lastly, you may just have a slow learner. Just like people some catches on really fast, some take time.

[Trek-chick]

....another thing I forgot to mention. It seemed to me that taking the dog on a leashed walk, around the block, helped a lot.

They smell all the wonderful things dogs can smell and even my female dog, to this day, needs to lay down her scent. I have even seen her lift her leg to pee on a tree trunk. LOL

It definitely helped with doing #2 also--something about walking got her bowels to let loose. This also seemed to help with our Airedale, who was extremely picky about where and when she went to the bathroom:rolleyes:

Patience is needed at this stage in a puppy's life.

[badger]

puppies really aren't for the faint of heart, for sure. This is why I adopted an older dog and will adopt another one when the time is right. Plus, their energy exhausts me!


Aggie (oops, wrong person!), I really do hope that you can get help for your little guy. If you're not happy, he's not happy, and then it's a vicious cycle.

[Rebekah H]

MudFlap is a super sweetpea. I did my research before getting a Basset and everything I read said that they are really hard to housebreak. That, combined with the fact that hounds take longer to mature means that I know that I have to be verrrry patient with her and know that house training will come on her schedule, ultimately. She's so awesome otherwise, she doesn't get into things she's not supposed to, she sleeps through the night, and she doesn't bark unless she's playing. Love. Her.

[Desert Tortoise]

What everyone else has said. I would only add that when I took my dog outside with the leash, I took him to the area of the yard I wanted him to do his business.

This taught him to go in one specific area of the yard. I have a big yard and my experience with dogs is they like to poop all over the place. By teaching him to go to one corner (the far back corner) it made clean up easier and it was out of sight and smell. (I live in the desert.)

I was more leaniant with peeing since I could easily hose down that part of the yard. Especially as he got older and the old boy didn't really want to go too far into the yard to pee.

Good luck!

[Aggie_Ama]

Mimi,

Thanks for the tips but I am sorry your friend felt the need to say she felt sorry for my dog though. No one who knows me personally would EVER feel sorry for my animals, in fact I am shocked after what we did for Maggie Bear that many on TE followed to see that put on this forum it actually made me cry. I know I am frustrated with my little guy but I also love him to bits. My husband does as well but he wasn't living with me with Heidi so this is his first puppy ever.

I recognize this is not his fault, it is mine but it still doesn't make it hard to not be frustrated when he is constantly playing in his feces and needs to be bathed daily.

[Aggie_Ama]

To address the other suggestions:

He has had four vet visits, they said he is perfect health but did show a super stubborn streak typical of schnauzers. He is smart, he knows sit and stay already. He also knows what "go to bed" means and will sometimes go. We broke him of being a biter in about one week by just telling him no when he did it. He is already showing progress on not jumping which we started last week.

I think the part that is frustrating is Heidi potty trained so easily, I got her at three months old, she crate trained easily and my mom has Jens' brother who is also already almost completely potty trained. Her dog will alert them of his need to go already so I am skeptical that Jens is too young. I will take him out on a leash, I hadn't started him on one because I don't like to collar leash small dogs and he is only now large enough for the harness that was the smallest I could find (I sure they make smaller but I couldn't find it). I have already been taking him to the same spot on the grass. I can start getting up multiple times a night, I had read at his age he should be able to hold it about 4-5 hours which is how long he is usually kenneled overnight. I feed him on a dependable schedule, the last feeding is as soon as I get home at 6:30-7 but I probably don't feed him quite early enough in the morning. We come home at lunch to let him out. Unfortunately we live 25 miles away so we can only come home at lunch. My husband would take him to his work but they have no airconditioning and it is 105 degrees in Texas right now, he does not feel it is a suitable condition for the dog. Plus he is having a problem with rattlesnakes and does not want any employees bringing their dogs because of them.

[redrhodie]

I don't have any tips, but you are obviously very loving and great dog owner. I am a cat person, but even they can be very frustrating, and kittens, forget about it! They drive you nuts (but it's worth it!). Just know this is temporary. I'm sure you'll figure it out. Take the good advice, and leave the other. 8 was harsh, but remember, it was said by someone who is a friend of a member, who doesn't know who you are, or what you went through with your other dog. Take it with a grain of salt. You know it isn't true, and so do most of us.

[Aggie_Ama]

Take it with a grain of salt. You know it isn't true, and so do most of us.

Thanks Red, just got my sensitive pants on today. :) I see a lot of good advice in this thread so I am going to try a few different things with Jens. In a few months I will be saying what a good boy he has learned to be.

[Biciclista]

Amanda, my friend likes animals more than people and sees through their eyes more than ours and is cynical to boot. I am glad you are taking suggestions to heart, and I am sorry if she offended you. Her advice is brilliant though so I thought it would be worth it to share it here.

[Sardine]

Amanda,

I have to say that I thought the comments by the dog trainer were a bit harsh But I've had some experience of them (friends etc.) and sometimes, their negative experiences can make them less tolerant than they could be. I don't know you but would suggest that you don't take it to heart. I followed the thread about your dog Heidi and was very moved by your dedication and devotion to her. I hope she's doing well now. For about a year, I had been nursing my boy, a 13+ basset hound, who was progressively deteriorating due to arthritis so your experience struck a chord. I finally had to let him go in February. Your dogs are lucky to have you. Persevere and you'll find something that works. I wish you well.

[meggers113]

I'm not sure how much truth there is to this, but when we house broke our first puppy, I remember reading that some dogs get pleasure from watching thier humans clean up after them. Whenever my puppy would make a mess in the house, I'd put him in a different room or outside while I cleaned up the mess.

We got lucky in that our second dog was easier to house break than the first, I can't imagine going the other direction and having a more difficult time the second time around. Hang in there, he'll get it eventually! :)

[Biciclista]

Amanda,

I have to say that I thought the comments by the dog trainer were a bit harsh But I've had some experience of them (friends etc.) and sometimes, their negative experiences can make them less tolerant than they could be. I don't know you but would suggest that you don't take it to heart. I followed the thread about your dog Heidi and was very moved by your dedication and devotion to her. I hope she's doing well now. For about a year, I had been nursing my boy, a 13+ basset hound, who was progressively deteriorating due to arthritis so your experience struck a chord. I finally had to let him go in February. Your dogs are lucky to have you. Persevere and you'll find something that works. I wish you well.
you said it!

[Aggie_Ama]

Thanks biciclista and Sardine. Like I sad, I am sensitive especially with my furkids.

Meggers- I think you may be right. The dogs want your attention and so they see you responding to something they did.


This is actually my third dog to housebreak and despite being an abused rescue Maggie Bear housebroke with ease. I think she was so eager to please and get love she learned what Heidi was doing. She only had struggles after her kidneys started failing.

Oh and since Sardine mentioned her, Heidi is doing amazing! She is walking, even running, she can sit normal, she does seem to tire easily but I am not sure that is the back still healing or the fact that she is about to turn 10 years old and aging. She does still have a shake in one side of her back legs but she can potty without going on herself, she will get a re-check at 8 weeks but she is better than we expected.

[RubyTuesday]

If you don't mind my rambling, I will tell you what happened to me when I was training my Maxwell, when he was a pup. The advice I got, was probably the best single advice I ever got from anyone. So here goes the story:

Maxwell was 10 weeks old when I got him and it was January and cold (by California standards). I didn't have a doggy door, so Maxwell was crate trained. He slept most of the night in his crate (with one scheduled outing at about 2:00 am). We would take him out in the morning to pee and usually he would go and then back in the house for breakfast. This is where it got interesting. After breakfast he always needed to go back out to poop. So we would take him out again, standing there with our treats to give him a reward when he presented us with a poop or a pee. However, on this second trip out, he would do nothing. He would walk around smelling the bushes and the trees and a big zero would happen. It was cold, so we would stand there freezing waiting for the gift from Maxwell .......nothing. When we first brought him home, he would always go for us after breakfast and we would give him his treat and then race in the house with the puppy. But somewhere along the lines, it changed and he would not go now after breakfast. Finally, in desperation, we would take him back in the house where he would immediately pee on the floor or worse poop on the floor. Huh? what??? You were just outside!!!! Why now? He did this for over a week until I was ready to scream. He would not pee outside, just when he got back in the house.

I finally called a friend who raises dogs in desperation. When I told her the story she laughed and said she knew how to fix it. Seems as if, Maxwell enjoyed his treats after a pee, but he enjoyed being outside even more. He would go first thing in the morning because he wanted to go back in the house for breakfast. But, after breakfast he wanted to play outside. I wanted to go in because I was cold. My friend told me to stop and think like a dog. She said that Maxwell viewed my picking him up and carrying him in the house, after he pee'd or poop'ed as a punishment. He wanted to be outside sniffing the trees and bushes while I wanted nothing more for him to pee and then grab him and go in the house because I was cold. So Maxwell would hold the pee as long as he could while he was outside because if he did, I would not pick him up and take him in......punishment in his eyes. Once in the house, oh yeh, now he can pee cuz he is already where he didn't want to be.

So, the next morning we took Maxwell outside after breakfast. I planned on the long wait with a heavy coat. I waited and waited and waited and waited.....finally, I waited him out. He was also done being outside and he poop'd. I gave him the treat for the gift and then did NOT pick him up and take him inside. I let him stay outside sniffing around some more. Then after he adequately had time to forget he had poop'd, I carried him in the house. We did this every morning. He played outside after he pee'd or poo'd and I waited him out and did not carry him in the house after he produced.

After this revelation, we had no other problems with potty training. Maxwell knew he would get to stay outside and I got my puppy's pee on the grass.

Think like a puppy if you can. Is your sweet baby thinking she is being punished for something? Are you treating her after she pee's each and every time? Are you doing something after the puppy pee's that makes her feel like she is being punished? I know it is hard to think like a dog, because we are humans. But this was a changing point in our puppy's training and I hope it will help you think like your dog.

One last thing. Puppies are not vindictive. They don't punish you for an action or hold a grudge. They are a bit like goldfish. If you don't catch your dog's pee'ing in the crate or pooping in the crate or on the floor, it is YOUR fault and not the puppy. Don't bother yelling at them after the fact, they have no idea what you are saying. They hear "blah blah blah blah and it is really loud. But, they have no clue why you are angry. That was a really good thing for me to learn. If you catch them making the mistake punish immediately and then let it go, because they will want to sit on your lap and snuggle within a minute after they got in trouble. All is forgiven as far as dogs are concerned, one minute after it happens.

Good luck with your beautiful baby. I am sorry I was so long winded.

[Biciclista]

wow, Ruby, that was choice!

[Irulan]

Is there any way to re organize your time so you aren't leaving for big chunks of time for work? I would think that would be very tough on a young dog.

[Aggie_Ama]

I think you are on to something Ruby, I think he wants in to be with us so he doesn't want to potty outside because he has our undivided attention. Heidi usually goes and is let back in so he has us all to himself.

I usually don't leave the house until 7:00, I just get up when my husband does so the dogs can. I am actually usually home by 6:00 but he goes out and dinner is not until the dogs get to potty and the cat box gets cleaned. There is no way to re-organize our work schedules the best we can do is come home at lunch. The longest he is home is if we car pool and that is 6 hours before lunch.

[PamNY]

Ruby, excellent example of humans learning to understand dogs.

[Aggie_Ama]

So we started trying to be more consistent with Jensie last night using many of your suggestions and it seems to already be catching on. We make sure he knows he is out to potty, we don't play with him out there when it is potty time. This morning he was clean, as was his kennel. I had to go into the office for a few hours, he did not make a mess even though I was gone closer to 6 hours.

He has had one accident which was my fault as I didn't take him back out when he wouldn't poop this morning and ended up dozing off on the couch while he was having breakfast.

One of my problems is we got him so young (6 weeks, no I don't like them weaning so soon either) that I forget he is still really young. He feels like he has been here forever but he is only 17 weeks tomorrow.

[grey]

Oh wow that is young! If my dogs were not always mutts with some kind of horrible history, I'd only get them at 10 weeks. Alas, the world does not always allow us or them that kind of luxury. So, you may have more issues to deal with since he was weaned so young. Thankfully you have an older dog, this should help a great deal.
Glad he is doing better!

[Aggie_Ama]

Yes, he weaned himself at 4 weeks. I feel wrong admitting I got him from a backyard breeder but she actually is known by my aunt. She actually had a couple older schnuazers she had as pets because she found them to have a genetic issue or temperment issue so she retired them but kept them. She just had two breeding females and three males.

I am conflicted on dog breeding as a whole, we rescued Maggie from a Puppy Mill being run out of a vet's office. She was one of seven breeds they were breeding, couldn't eat out of bowls, was baffled by grass and crouched when you reached to pet her at first. But under her horrible life she was the kindest, gentlest and most loving dog ever. But she only made it to nine years old. Then again some of the breeders I found looking for Jens were complete shady. One had a complete bait and switch website set up. So his breeder who spent 2 hours letting us pick the puppy, teaches at the local high school, let us meet the parents and see how she keeps her dog seemed like a more genuine person than many of the breeders.

[grey]

The world is far from perfect. So sorry Maggie did not make it long. Sometimes there is nothing you can do to fix a rough early life. I'm going through a tough spot with one of mine now, she's only 7 1/2. Was very abused, very malnourished early on.

Not sure what I think of breeding. I'll prolly never have the luxury, as animals seem to find me. I think we still need some breeding, I just think perhaps there should be a limit, and an age requirement before they are separated from the litter/mom. I don't look down on your adopting him so young, I think it a shame the breeder did that. Anyway, I am glad he is doing better, he's got a great home and an older dog to look up to. :) Enjoy his puppy-ness, they are young for only so long. Our Zoe is getting less "puppy" all the time, just love it when she chases her tail or gets the zoomies and has to sprint through the house!

[chincitop]

The thing about potty training dogs is that for it to be really quick, you need to be able to spend A LOT of time with them, the first few weeks. I've trained a few dogs, and the last two were the best, and that's because I was able to, for two weeks after we got them, always have someone with them. The family would take shifts, and every hour, on the hour, we would take them out, and if they peed, they got a treat. We spent time in the kitchen where they were quarantined until they were trained, and punished them when they went inside, then took them directly outside.

Buddy is very silly, because we trained him to go in a particular spot in the yard, and he developed a quirk, on his own, of taking his leash in his mouth, walking himself to that spot, doing his business, then if he is allowed to play, he runs around like crazy, and when you call him, picks up his leash again, and carries it back, and drops it at your feet. it's very cute, and silly.

However, some dogs are really difficult. Hence the contrast between Buddy the wonder-Dane, and Angel, the slow witted American Eskimo, who we finally had to give away at FIVE because despite spending hours a day working with her (I was unemployed at the time, and seriously had nothing better to do, she got more training attention than ANY of my dogs every have) she was completely idiotic. I finally got her potty trained, but she couldn't do anythign else, and every time it rained, and I brought her outside, she would pee herself on the porch. I brought her to the vet, alongside my lab, who was perfectly behaved, and she was left there to be observed by their handlers for a bit, and it was concluded that she was "mentally challenged" and probably inbred. Later in her life, she also began having seizures. About the time I was really getting worried about her vet & med bills, we went to visit friends in PA, and brought her, and she and their daughter fell in love. Their family could better care for her, as they are much more financially well off than we are, and she's now a happy farm dog. Still a bit idiotic, but she's queen of her own heated barn, where she sleeps in her own stall, next to 4 horses, and a sheep. We get pictures every once in a while.

If you can't get him trained, I would recommend a trainer possibly? There are kennels that will take him for a week or more and train her for you. It sucks not having your puppy with you, but they usually have "parent hours" and handlers whose job it is to play with them when they're not being trained, so they're getting love.

Good luck! I completely understand the frustration. I went from a amazingly trained lab that I trained the same way, to Angel the derp dog. <3