Let's talk handlebars....(long)

[nscrbug]

My Cannondale Synapse came with the 3T Ergonova Pro handlebars. I believe the bars are 38cm wide, with a reach/drop measurement of 77mm/123mm. My previous bike, a Cervelo Carbon Soloist, also had this same exact bar. On both bikes, I have always suffered with intolerable hand pain & numbness...to the point where I simply cannot FEEL my controls at all, making shifting especially difficult. I have had professional bike fits on both of these bikes, and just recently had a PT (physical therapy) bike fit on my Cannondale which addressed several other pain issues I was having. Yet, my hands are still not happy even after the PT fit...it's certainly a bit better, but not totally pain/numb-free. FWIW, yes I DO wear cycling gloves (I have about 8 different pairs, none of which really help) on every ride. I will also acknowledge that my core strength is probably not the greatest...but NOT for lack of trying. I'm at the gym everyday doing cardio, weights, ab/core work, stretching. I consider myself to be quite fit, and I have a fair amount of muscle on my frame. However, I have a lower back condition (spondylolisthesis) that is often my "limiter". I KNOW that I need to do core stabilization exercises to not only help with my condition, but to help with cycling. Yet, doing the core work often hurts my back to the point where I have to stop prematurely. It's like I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't.
That's the background info. Now on to my handlebar question.

My Cannondale is currently at my dealer having some warranty work done, so the last few rides I've done have been on my "backup" bike, a Trek 2100 WSD. The Trek has a much different bar - a Bontrager women's fit bar, it's rounder vs the more egg-shaped 3T bar on the C'dale. The hood area seems narrower and more comfortable vs a much thicker hood area on my C'dale. Overall, my hands feel a bit more comfortable on the Bontrager bar. Not completely pain-free, but a noticeable difference from the 3T bar. I guess the burning question I have is...is it possible that my hand issues could be bar-related? Could it be that my hands simply do not like the egg-shaped Ergonova bar? Even though it is billed as being "designed for better hand comfort"? Has anyone else found that their hands are not comfortable on those egg-shaped bars that have a flat top bar? I have contemplated swapping the bars out for something like a Ritchey WCS Logic II bar, which is comparable in reach/drop (actually a shorter reach, which I think would help) but rounder in shape. But then I keep thinking WHAT IF it doesn't help? Has anyone here moved from an egg-shaped bar like the 3T Ergonova, to something rounder and more traditional, with good success?

Linda

[indysteel]

I experienced a lot of hand pain and numbness on my Moots--a bike that was custom designed for me. I started off with an FSA bar that had a flat top. I hated them, and switched to the bars that are on my Bianchi--Deda 4 Girls. They have a smaller diameter and round top. My pain got slightly better but did not radically improve.

Utlimately, I came to the belief that the bike's geometry was just wrong. The reach was too short and the seat tube angle too steep (even with an offset seatpost) to get my weight rearward enough to take the weight off my hands. I worked with a biomechanics expert/fitter who just couldn't quite figure it out.

So, while I wouldn't discourage you from changing out your bars, I have to wonder whether there's something in your bike's set up or geometry that is the real issue--along with your own physical issues.

The pain and numbess I experienced has not completely gone away, despite the fact that I haven't ridden it in a year. I did permanent damage to the nerves in my hands. So, be carful pushing through this.

[KnottedYet]

Dare I whisper the evil words: "try raising the bar an inch?"

Sometimes I do a fit with someone who *looks* like they should already be perfect. By every number, every chart, every angle - they should feel great and ride like the wind.

But they are miserable.

They are desperately trying to get their weight back (sometimes they think it's a saddle problem). They are having bad hand symptoms, neck pain, shoulder pain.

For whatever reason, sometimes the body just needs to come up at the front a smidge to allow it to work in its own unique happy place.

See if your LBS has some loaner stems, and try one with more rise? In any case, a stem is cheaper than buying a couple different bars to try. If your hands like feel of the bar before they start having trouble, I'd be blaming the placement rather than the bar. (generally if the bar shape is a problem, the suckage is pretty instantaneous) If you feel misery from the moment you start riding, you might want to do a bit of experimenting to see if the bar is just too "fat" at the diameter of your most efficient grip. Trying to hang onto an object that is too fat for optimal grip can wreak havoc, as anyone who has bought over-padded gloves has discovered.

[nscrbug]

Thanks for your insight, Indy. The Synapse that I'm riding has a pretty relaxed geometry, as say, compared to my previous Cervelo which was extremely aggressive and racy. And the fitter that I just worked with (the PT fitter), thought that the geometry of my bike suited me well. He made some fairly significant changes to my saddle position (tilt, moved forward and up) and cleat position which seemed to have addressed some other pain issues that I was having. I was hoping that those changes would have resolved my hand issue, but sadly it did not. It improved it somewhat, but I was hoping for more. I honestly don't know what more could possibly be done to get me more comfortable, aside from going to a ridiculously steeper stem. The stem I have on there now is an 80mm, 17-degree...so it's fairly upright. I suppose I could try a steeper stem (I've seen a Ritchey one that is 30-degrees), but I think it would look rather silly, IMO. This is why I thought that perhaps it could be the bar itself...but I'm still not totally convinced of that yet. There is simply no way that I can even fathom looking at another bike altogether. So I have to figure out a way to work with this Cannondale Synapse. Another bike fitting is out of the question, too...as this last one cost me an arm & a leg.

[KnottedYet]

I suppose I could try a steeper stem (I've seen a Ritchey one that is 30-degrees), but I think it would look rather silly, IMO.

Yes, it is unfortunately far more important to look like Lance than to avoid permanent debilitating nerve damage. ;)

[Seajay]

I honestly don't know what more could possibly be done to get me more comfortable, aside from going to a ridiculously steeper stem. The stem I have on there now is an 80mm, 17-degree...so it's fairly upright. I suppose I could try a steeper stem (I've seen a Ritchey one that is 30-degrees), but I think it would look rather silly, IMO.

Not having seen you on the bike...I just throw this out there as two things that COULD be causing you grief.
1. Bars too HIGH. Imagine your body wanting to be forward but your arm length is keeping it from happening....pressure on your hands is trying to shove your scapula together. If you keep raising the bar without relief...maybe this is the issue. Experiment by dropping 15mm or so and see what happens. (you may have to slide the saddle a tad forward if your hamstrings protest)
2. Too thick bar tape. Trying to get hand relief some will stack on the gels and tape. Imagine playing tennis or golf with a "too fat" grip. Lots of hand discomfort esp when trying to shift/brake.
My 2c

[OakLeaf]

Another alternative (a little bit pricier than new bars, but in the same general ballpark) would be a new fork, that you could cut to a height that would make you comfortable. 80mm at 17° gives you so little offset, that has to be super twitchy ... and going to a longer stem obviously would increase the reach, which you may or may not want to do.

Cheapest and simplest is messing around with the lever positioning and handlebar tilt ... either one can make an enormous difference in comfort, reach and accessibility of the levers.


How does your overall fit on the Trek differ from the C'dale? Did your fitter take measurements from the Trek?

[nscrbug]

Knot - Yeah, I guess raising the bar a bit would be another option to try. And you're right that sometimes you do have to "throw the numbers out" (as my fitter said) and go with how the rider feels. That was the situation he had when trying to properly dial in my knee angle. The "correct" number just wasn't working for me, so he had to toss that out and go with a number that allowed my legs to function better.

Unfortunately, my LBS doesn't have a supply of "test stems" to try...they're a small shop. They would have to special order any additional stems that I'd want to try, and likely at my expense. We've tried a few different sizes/rises already and had settled on the 80mm/17-degree one that is on the bike now. Any shorter, and the handling of the bike might be compromised. As I said in my reply above to Indy, I could go steeper on the rise, but going from a 17-degree stem to a 30-degree one is a pretty huge jump in rise. Of course, there is the option of an adjustable stem which would give me an infinite combination of rises to try...so that is another option I should consider. As for how quickly the pain/numbness set in...I wouldn't say that it's "instantaneous", but it does kick-in within the first 15 minutes or so. Whereas, on my Trek with the "rounder" bar...it takes much longer for the pain to surface.

[nscrbug]

Another alternative (a little bit pricier than new bars, but in the same general ballpark) would be a new fork, that you could cut to a height that would make you comfortable. 80mm at 17° gives you so little offset, that has to be super twitchy ... and going to a longer stem obviously would increase the reach, which you may or may not want to do.

Cheapest and simplest is messing around with the lever positioning and handlebar tilt ... either one can make an enormous difference in comfort, reach and accessibility of the levers.


How does your overall fit on the Trek differ from the C'dale? Did your fitter take measurements from the Trek?

Well, the shifters are being replaced (under warranty) as we speak. I'm waiting for the new ones to be sent from Shimano in CA. So, I plan on having some input when they are installed, as far as positioning goes. Had not thought about tilting the bars...thanks for that suggestion!

My fitter did not take measurements from the Trek, as I only brought in my C'dale to the fitting. And IMO, I never did have a "proper" fitting on the Trek...just the standard plumb line from the knee measurement and a "how does it feel?", before they sent me on my way.

[Cataboo]

You could post pics of your cannondale for us to get an idea of the geometry.


I have shitty wrists or thumbs or hands or something, and I'm always irritating them typing, kayaking, or biking. So this is what works for me.

I use the fsa carbon wing bars - but I get them wider than probably what I should be riding (I haven't measured). the 42 cms bars gives me a lot of flat for me to just hold my arms straight out on. I put bar gel on (either fizik or planet bike) and handlebar tape over that. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's a corky handlebar tape or not. You have to aim the flat on the handlebars so that it's keeping your wrists at a relaxed position. I have my handlebars at roughly the same height or a teensy bit above the seat.

TxDoc's been riding my litespeed some this week and flipped the stem down and moved the spacers - the bike looks very cool now, I'll have to give it a shot and see how it feels.


I also do best with gloves that have absolutely no padding - so I either get leather gloves, or I rip the padding out of the gloves I'm using. If I've got padded gloves, for whatever reason within about 15 mins my hands are numb. I like gloves that end above my wrist, so basically the pearl izumi ones, and I rip the padding out of them. If the velcro goes around my wrist or the gloves do, my hands go numb pretty quickly.

My litespeed/titanium frame is far nicer on my hands than my other bikes, but the carbon bike isn't bad either.

Too bad you don't live around here - I have a ton of spare handlebars and stems you could try. (Probably all in widths that are too wide for you). Isn't someone selling some round 38 cm bars off their specialized over in the for sale section? that might be a cheap way to try a different set of bars on your bike. Otherwise, specialized does sell adjustable stems which have little inserts that you can swap or flip around depending on what angle you want to try.

[macski]

I have recently bought a Cannondale Synapse Ultegra model and it came with the bars you describe - my LBS swapped them out for me at the fitting stage for two reasons:
1 - I prefer rounder bars and especially bars that have more space behind the hoods so that you can vary your hand position - the bars they put on are a Specialized short reach bar but not a women's specific model
2 - he thought the bars were a touch narrow for me (they are supposed to be a 38 but they measured narrower than other 38s at the same point to point)


I have a Specialized Amira that I'll be selling soon but I had immense hand pain on that bike - quite debilitating. Once I rode the Synapse I realised that I should have swapped out the bars on the Amira and I would have had less pain.

I have no hand pain on the Synapse

[KnottedYet]

If your hands are starting to protest after 15 minutes, I'd blame the bar shape. That's instantaneous enough for me. Compare the heights of the bars with your Trek, just for jollies. Also compare the distances from the seatposts to the bar clamps. Unless they are radically different, my bet is the shape of the bar is too fat for your most efficient grip, if it's biting you after only 15 minutes.

With a bike shop fit AND a PT fit on the same bike, it's probably safe to assume that whatever you need to adjust is kind of subtle. Trying to find cheap ways to experiment is the tough part! :rolleyes:

And with the spondy, please do be careful if you try lowering the bars. Raise them all you want, but be cautious lowering them. You can ask your PT to measure your stable torso angle, and just make sure you don't go lower than that. Bear in mind that angle can change as your core strength changes.

[Catrin]

I always use full-finger unpadded mountain bike gloves. They 'grip' on their own and allow me to keep my hands relaxed. I make sure they are adequately tight so they don't stress my hands with excess fabric. I used to have a lot of hand problems too. ...

Sorry for the short hijack - Murieen - would you mind sending me a picture of these gloves and let me know what they are? I've given up on most women's gloves as they seem to have too much padding and in the wrong place. Found a great pair of men's Gore fingerless gloves, but these sound like they would be good to have if they come small enough.

Nscrbug - I hope you are able to solve your hand issues soon. My hands will now allow me to use road bars at all - can't handle any weight on them with the arthritis in my palms. I can't add anything more constructive than to be supportive, but I CAN do that :)

[Cataboo]

I got a short finger version of these at the lbs the other week:
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/21412-185_FOXWI0-3-Parts-427-Womens-Specific/Fox-Women%27s-Incline-Full-Finger-Glove-offer?utm_source=Googlebase&utm_medium=datafeed&utm_campaign=FTP&offer=IN211GLB.htm&zmam=3075515&zmas=1&zmac=30&zmap=185%20FOXWI0

No padding in the palm, just a double layer of fake leather like stuff

[pumpkinpony]

The last 'new' bike I bought had bars like you are describing on it. FSA wing I think... I rode with them for about a month before I gave up and had the LBS put round bars on it. That's much better for my small hands. I just didn't find the other comfortable.