Home addition?

[jessmarimba]

So it turned out that my laundry room basically needed rebuilt. They should be able to brace the roof and just replace the two walls and floor (the other end of this "room" is a closet that was built correctly in the 20s). I got an estimate today for the room and, while there are some things I plan on vetoing (I can paint, etc, myself) I still feel like it's more expensive than I was expecting. Particularly since it won't be permitted.

I'm going to get a second estimate, but does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing?

[withm]

Why on earth would you not want permits? They are there for your protection.

[maillotpois]

Why on earth would you not want permits? They are there for your protection.

+1 million.

Plus you will have serious disclosure issues if you sell the house and performed major work (including structural work, it sounds) without permits. I'd be leery of any contractor who would advise you to do this work without permits.

And be sure you get proof of the contractors' license, workers comp and liability insurance.

[jessmarimba]

Technically, this room is being "repaired" and the permits aren't necessary because the original room pre-dates permit records in the building office here (records prior to 1975 are no longer on file). Though my area is full of unpermitted work - it really wouldn't affect my ability to sell, even fully disclosed.

[withm]

In most jurisdictions in the US, permits are required for anything involving plumbing and electric.

"Brace the roof and just replace the two walls and floor" may be "repairs" to you, but these are structural additions to your home, and this work requires permits.

At a minimum, permits ensure that your plumbing will be vented and tied into the system correctly, electric lines and connections are tied in properly and safely and meet the building codes, and there will be inspections to document that.

Your roof needs bracing? I'd want to be sure it wasn't going to collapse when the washing machine gets off balance and vibrates itself across the room. That has got to be done right, and confirm that the loads are supported properly.

If the contractor wants to skimp on permits, where else is he going to skimp? Any contractor that cuts corners here is putting not just your home, but you and your family's lives at risk.

[jessmarimba]

Ok. Please don't lecture me about permits. I'm aware of the pros and cons of decisions there, and it's none of anyone's business but mine, the contractor, and the eventual buyer. Pretty sure the cats don't care about anything but their litter box being moved back into the right room.

I came here to ask about price estimates, how to find out whether or not what they are suggesting is reasonable, and how to find a company for a second estimate (I don't plan on subscribing to Angie's list). The person I contacted initially was a former coworker of one of my current coworkers, and I trust the guy, but it makes negotiating awkward since my coworker is now invested in this.

[tulip]

Jess, don't get mad. The title of your post is "home addition," not "minor repair." You mentioned that you weren't going to have it permitted, so that is the reason that the people responded to that item. If you had not mentioned that part, no one would have brought it up. You did not specify the cost, so there's no way to comment on that. Besides, costs vary widely for different parts of the country, so asking it would not be useful.

For recommendations, you can ask people in your neighborhood who have recently had work done. You can ask real estate agents for recommendations. You can look on bulletin boards or websites (my area has a neighborhood blog and people frequently post "know any good contractors"-type questions). The main thing is to get references, check them out, interview the potential contractors, make sure they are bonded, etc.

Personally, I would want to make sure that the electrical work is done by a licensed electrician; same for plumbing. Washers and dryers require beefed-up electrical systems and specialized plumbing. If your dryer is gas, then it's even more important to make sure it's done correctly. No cost savings in a job that needs to be re-done or turns out to be dangerous. It sounds like a bigger job than a simple shed that would require a guy with a nail gun.

Best wishes for a successful repair or whatever it turns out to be.

[jessmarimba]

Sorry. I didn't mean to sound mad. There are financial reasons that permitting this work probably isn't a good idea. First off, no electrical or plumbing will be touched - that's already in the walls that aren't going to be rebuilt. To permit the room I would have to treat it as a new addition, which would mean bringing the 2 90-year-old walls with plumbing/electric that aren't going to be touched up to current code, which might not be possible without further demolition or may require a small fortune without adding any value to my house. Plus it's a pandora's box - I can't decide to permit it, then find out it would be next to impossible, and decide to do the work anyway without permits. The contractor is aware of the technicalities here and will allow me to choose, and I've chosen not to pay more than 10% of the cost of my house just to re-finish a 5x12 ft laundry room.

The cost of fixing the room - right now quoted at $7,500 - is less than an addition would cost b/c the roof, plumbing, electric are already in place - however, I felt it was a little high considering we're looking at two plain walls, a poured concrete floor, and recycling the windows/doors currently on the house. BUT, I have no experience with these sorts of costs and no one in my neighborhood pays for others to do work on their houses. My realtor doesn't even have any ideas (she thinks, after seeing the room, that I could do all of the repair work myself). I know costs will vary by location but it's hard to get a guess of what the going rate is around here.

[GLC1968]

$7500 does sound like a lot. Your realtor really has no one to suggest? That's weird. They usually have a list of preferred contractors because when things come up in inspections, it's helpful to have people you trust to fix the work. Do you know anyone who maybe used to flip houses for money? They usually have a list of preferred contractors as well (for emergencies).

Speaking of which - do you know any inspectors? They may know of a general contractor that they would trust. We used a plumber recommended by our home inspector when we moved in. We found our BEST contractor so far by hiring a company to do our siding. The contractor worked for them but was so knowledgeable and easy to work with that we hired him separately to do some other work.

You could also pick a name out of the yellow pages and then Google them to see what others are saying. Sometimes that works out well.

I found Angie's list to be useless for us. We are too far from a major city to get anyone to travel out to us and very few businesses local to us were listed. It was really disappointing.

[withm]

Mike Holmes

[jessmarimba]

My realtor is a sweetheart but she's a little...umm...out of touch with reality sometimes :p (I believe she has several cats named "fuzzy-wuzzy-monkey-butt"). But inspector - great idea - I really liked the guy who did my home inspection, he might know someone to help! I've just been stumped, I barely know people out here.

And thanks, withm, had never heard of him but now I have new shows to look for on netflix :)

[bmccasland]

Mike Holmes likes permits....:cool:

[Mr. Bloom]

Mike Holmes

:D:D:D:D. Shame you're not in Canada Jess

FWIW: I'm about to build a prefab storage building that is 10x12 (the size that doesn't require permits here;) ), no electric or plumbing...prefab material cost is 1,700 (which I thought was high)...installed adds about 700. Now, this doesn't involve insulation, demolition, etc., but it's very similar in profile. This implies to me that the contractor is trying to make about 5,000 for time/labor etc.

So, the question becomes "is it worth 5,000 to you and is this contractor bonafide and trustworthy?". If not, can you find bonafide and trustworthy for less? The problem is finding good contractors for small projects...and they usually want to make a minimum amount/job.

Having said that, you might try offering the contractor a "cost+ x% not to exceed $y" deal where you pay the materials direct and pay the contractor a 15% to 20% surcharge based on the material cost at completion. If the material cost are actually about 2,000+/- and he's not thinking through this very much, you may get it for ~half his original bid...although you really need to hold him accountable by going to the store and paying for materials directly

[sundial]

Jess, wanted to share another idea. Can you ask a clerk at the local building supply store for recommendations? Or through your plumber? I like to go to the guys who work alongside the builders for recommendations because they will tell you who to use, who to avoid, and whether they are available for remodeling projects.

[jessmarimba]

Thanks. I did some thinking on a run last night and decided that I will not likely do $7,500 worth of laundry in my foreseeable lifetime. At that price, I'd be better off paying someone to do my laundry and demolishing the room entirely (NOT having the room will subtract almost no value from my home - it isn't counted towards the square footage anyway, since it's not heated living space and was never permitted to begin with).

I think I'm going to find a foundation specialist and see if it's possible to fix this without taking the walls down. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry about it until it warms up a bit.

(ETA - sundial, I got a chuckle out of the plumber suggestion - I've done all of that work myself!)

[pie2mats]

well, that's a goods way to put it... actually the law is retroactive only in terms of criminal cases and not civil and administrative purposes so the law applies to all, otherwise none at all... yep, the coverage isn't far out of date but doesn't mean the person in it is not. :rolleyes: getting a permit is a bilateral concept with a uniform goal.
congrats anyway on your new additions. Studies show that adding a room to your home can yield a 66% return on investment, depending on the type of room you add. That means that the value a room addition adds to your home pays for over half of the project's cost. :eek:



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