knickers vs tights (cold weather prepartions)

[Catrin]

I have to ask, though it is likely a silly question. What IS the difference between cycling knickers and tights? Perhaps I have knickers instead of tights but the bottom of the legs hits me at mid-calf - and while I might have long legs for my height, I am not far from tall.

I am starting to consider what I need for the winter - and while my leg warmers fit much better than last year (those bigger thighs do come in useful) I do need to get at least one pair of good knickers or tights. Considering the cost that might be all I get, but I digress. I've several merino wool short-sleeve jerseys and a base layer - so can probably get away with one more smart-wool base layer and a long-sleeve merino wool jersey.

I've also noted that bib tights/knickers are available...even drop-tail, though quite frankly, I can't imagine dropping that tail in sub-freezing temps :eek: I can see the obituary now :cool:

If'n I can get my full deposit back when I move next month then that will pay for all of this :D

So, if I can only get one pair - would tights be better than knickers? I note that TE sells several brands of cold-weather bib-tights - so I am leaning that direction. Spendy, but am thinking they might help keep my core warm...

[indysteel]

I hate to say it, but I find them both to be somewhat necessary in Indiana. Our transitional seasons are just SO transitional, with cool to cold mornings followed by pretty warm days. Try as I might, I just have had bad luck with leg warmers staying up. I like the knickers so much more.

I have two lengths of knickers. Some PIs that hit me just under my knee and some Shebeest that hit me mid-calf. I probably wear the latter more because I like the chamois and fit better. They see me through early to mid- fall and early to mid-spring. I also have some Sugoi tights that are a must for winter riding. I will say that I've had better luck with my lower end Sugois (I think it's the Helix) than the higher end Shebeest and Sugois that I have. Go figure. So, I don't think you have to break the bank to get a decent pair of tights.

But here's the thing: When it's really cold and/or windy, I wear both the Shebeest knickers and the tights. Having two layers over my knees really helps.

Keep in mind that a lot of tights don't have a chamois. I find the chamois- less ones to be more versatile, since you can layer them over something with a chamois.

[Catrin]

I do remember wearing both last winter for my parking lot drills - but I wasn't accustomed to being outdoors in the winter at all... thanks for the food for thought. I do like the looks of the Gore bib-tights, and if my leg warmers were to stay up over them...

I had my leg-warmers on Saturday morning - of course they come to the very top of my thighs so were underneath my bib-shorts and touching skin. I am unsure if they stayed up better because they were gripping skin, or because I am finally developing larger thighs, or both.

My little practice sessions last winter didn't keep me out in the cold very long - though it seemed like it at the time :)

[ny biker]

Knickers and capris:

http://www.teamestrogen.com/product/apparel/bottoms/knickers-capris/c0-c1-c24-c121.html

Tights:

http://www.teamestrogen.com/product/apparel/bottoms/tights/c0-c1-c24-c124.html

[Catrin]

Tights=ankle length.
Knickers=knee length.

Mid-calf...Tickers? Knights?

No idea:)

I BET that they are mid-calf on me cause I am short....errrr....average height for my generation :)

I bet the 'tights' I am trying to sell here are actually knickers!

I like the looks of these (http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodGB_WWLIQT.html), no one can say I don't have expensive tastes... sigh.

[Crankin]

I have the same problem, Catrin (shortness). But, even thought the knickers come down to my mid-calf, almost to my ankle, they aren't really "warm." There's no insulation at all. They are just a pair of "long" shorts. I wear them, or knee warmers (which on me are almost leg warmers) when it's between 50 and 65. Below 50, I have tights on. I know, I see some people in the dead of winter, riding with shorts on... not good for the old knees.
When I finally found some knee warmers that fit me, I found I wear them more than the knickers. If the temperature is staying between 50-60 I wear the knickers.

[lph]

I almost exclusively wear shorts with padding, and tights over. I have one pair of cold-weather tights, and one pair of not-so-cold-weather tights. I also have full length leg warmers, but I don't really like them much because they're pretty sloppy, sag and have unravelly threads here and there.

I have more! knee warmers too, they're handy for those days when it's just a bit too cold for shorts riding in to work, but nice and warm on my way back, and I have one pair of knickers that I got on sale when I was really looking for another pair of shorts. They're my least favourite legwear - as such they're fine, but I find them either too warm or too cold. Some people swear by them.

So my recommendation for my type of weather would be - shorts, then knee warmers, then a pair of unpadded tights, then maybe a pair of warmer tights if needed.

[sundial]

I don't know how mild Indiana weather is but in my area we have about 2 months of really cold weather. So for the transitional seasons I wear knickers in lieu of shorts + knee warmers and during the cold months I wear a tight with wind block over my cycling shorts. That makes cycling bearable in sub 30 F temps.

[Becky]

I love knickers! If I know that it's going to stay below about 65 or so all day, they're perfect. Knee warmers are super versatile, but they sometime pinch me a little at the upper thigh. Knickers avoid this problem, but without the warmth of tights.

For me, the knickers are in rotation when it's 45-65. I have a pair of midweight knickers that do really well at the lower end of that range. Below 45, I'm looking for my midweight tights. Below freezing, the windproof tights come out to play.

Another vote here for unpadded tights...cheaper overall and I can use them for running, skiing, etc., as well.

[Catrin]

I have the same problem, Catrin (shortness). But, even thought the knickers come down to my mid-calf, almost to my ankle, they aren't really "warm." There's no insulation at all. They are just a pair of "long" shorts. I wear them, or knee warmers (which on me are almost leg warmers) when it's between 50 and 65. Below 50, I have tights on. I know, I see some people in the dead of winter, riding with shorts on... not good for the old knees.
When I finally found some knee warmers that fit me, I found I wear them more than the knickers. If the temperature is staying between 50-60 I wear the knickers.

Ahhhh, this is good to know about knickers - I didn't "get" that they are just long shorts. LPH is saying the same thing. So it sounds like the best investment would be a good pair of tights, and then a good pair of knee warmers. The leg warmers I have seem to come up TOO high - I think they could actually come above the top of my thighs if that were physically possible :o

Thanks Indy, Murieen, NYBiker, Crankin, LPH, Sundial and Becky! This thread is really helping me to focus on what is most important. Still like the idea of the bib-tights if I can swing the price.

Anyone have opinions on the chamois that Gore uses? I hope it isn't one of those thick ones...

We can have long periods of REALLY cold weather - a few winters back we were colder than Chicago and had more snow than they did :eek: or a mild winter with just occasional snow/major cold temps. It just depends...

[sundial]

Still like the idea of the bib-tights if I can swing the price.


Bib tights....very comfie around the waist, kinda difficult to navigate around it when one needs to really pee. ;)

[Catrin]

Bib tights....very comfie around the waist, kinda difficult to navigate around it when one needs to really pee. ;)

I love my drop-tail bib shorts - and I figure that bibs will be warmer in the winter anyway. But I am not going to bare my butt in 20 degree weather :eek: So, will just have to plan my winter routes with facilities in mind :o

Or just break down and get the drop-tail tights to go along with my summer drop-tail bibs...

[Crankin]

I can't imagine wearing knickers at 45 degrees! Or saving tights for below freezing. Of course, I used to wear mid weight wool jerseys at 65, but now I can wear short sleeved regular jerseys.
I also wear unpadded tights over my regular shorts, with wool socks ( I have 3 different thicknesses/lengths). This way, I can wear the tights for hiking or even x country skiing on a warmer day. I occasionally wear my wool/windproof Ibex tights that I bought for skiing, for riding. If it's that cold, it's usually just an errand or casual cruise on the hybrid. I don't regularly ride once the snow falls.
I bought a pair of padded Gore tights from someone on TE. I know she is as petite as me, but I cannot stand the chamois. It feels like a diaper. It's like spilling over the sides of the crease of my legs/body. I wear them because I feel guilty about spending the $ on something I really didn't need.
Your weather sounds like ours... one year hardly anything, next year blizzards galore.

[Catrin]

...
I bought a pair of padded Gore tights from someone on TE. I know she is as petite as me, but I cannot stand the chamois. It feels like a diaper. It's like spilling over the sides of the crease of my legs/body. I wear them because I feel guilty about spending the $ on something I really didn't need.
Your weather sounds like ours... one year hardly anything, next year blizzards galore.

There goes the Gore bib-tights idea then - well, I have time. Have to save the pennies and quarters up anyway...

Central Indiana does get interesting winter weather. Certainly not southern, but not that far north either - so we get everything.

[Becky]

I can't imagine wearing knickers at 45 degrees! Or saving tights for below freezing.

If it's 45 degrees when I leave in the morning, and it's going to be 55+ by the time I get home, I'll just wear the insulated knickers. Less stuff to carry when I do warm up....

My windproof tights are ridiculously warm....temps above freezing, and I get chilled from the sweat :o

In the end, everyone's personal thermostat is just a little bit different and, IME, varies under different conditions. I'm the chick huddled under a blanket in the office, but wearing knickers on the bike at 45 degrees.

[indysteel]

I personally don't like Gore's chamois, but that's personal. Frankly. I think there are other options out there that will work just as well for far less money. Do you have everything else you'll need for winter riding? Hat, balaclava, windproof gloves, a good baselayer?

Winter riding is a crapshoot in Indiana. For several years, I was simply unable to get out from the first of January to the beginning of March. It's not just that it's cold: it's rainy or snowy and very windy. This past January, there were some cold (15 or so degree) but dry and sunny days that I was able to ride, albeit for short distances. I tend to think they're the exception, not the norm, however. So, that leaves November and December, where the weather on semi-decent days is near freezing or just a bit below.

I guess what I'm trying to say is be sure you're really into winter riding before dropping serious coin on tights. I like it a point myself, but after that point...I go to yoga or spinning.

[Catrin]

I personally don't like Gore's chamois, but that's personal. Frankly. I think there are other options out there that will work just as well for far less money. Do you have everything else you'll need for winter riding? Hat, balaclava, windproof gloves, a good baselayer? ...

I guess what I'm trying to say is be sure you're really into winter riding before dropping serious coin on tights. I like it a point myself, but after that point...I go to yoga or spinning.

I have a good baselayer, thermal jacket and leg warmers, I pretty much need everything else. I do see that there are less expensive options for tights rather than the really pricey varieties. Last winter I did learn that I enjoy being out in temps above 24-25... but of course my riding style has changed a bit since then :D

Just mulling over what I need, and separating that from what I want. Not that I have a weakness for buying bike stuff. Nope. Not me :cool:

[indysteel]

I have a good baselayer, thermal jacket and leg warmers, I pretty much need everything else. I do see that there are less expensive options for tights rather than the really pricey varieties. Last winter I did learn that I enjoy being out in temps above 24-25... but of course my riding style has changed a bit since then :D

Just mulling over what I need, and separating that from what I want. Not that I have a weakness for buying bike stuff. Nope. Not me :cool:

In building a winter wardrobe, I think a sensible approach--and keep in mind I'm a fiscally conservative bankruptcy attorney--is to buy items that can be layered and to start with items that are suited for the cool and cold conditions you're most likely to ride in, which from my personal experience in Indiana are around the freezing mark and upwards. Like you, I've ridden on days with temps that were 25 degrees or less, but they're fewer and farer between, because there are other factors, like precipitation and wind, that often limit the feasability of those days. You may find that if you invest in pieces that you can layer, you will have enough to cover those really cold days, and you won't need to spend much extra money on pieces specifically for those conditions.

For instance, when I rode this past January in 15-degree weather, I wore my Shebeest knickers under my cheap Sugoi tights (the same ones I wear in cool weather); a wool baselayer, a long sleeve jersey, and Gore Windstopper jacket (the best piece of gear that I've ever spent money on); windproof gloves and glove liners, wool socks with charcoal toe warmers, a hat and balaclava. With the exception of the windproof gloves and the balaclava, these are the same items that I wear on cool days; I just wear fewer of them.

Now don't get me wrong, all of the above mentioned stuff cost money and added together wasn't cheap, but I always keep my eyes out for sales and rarely buy top-of-the-line unless it is on sale. There are deals out there; you just have to scour the web for them sometimes.

While this doesn't help you this season, the best time to look for winter clothing is on the sale rack in the spring and summer. Remember, too, that winter riding gear often does not have to be cycling or athletic specific. A cashmere sweater from the thrift shop will serve you as well as a Smartwool baselayer. In the very least, I'd encourage you to look on Craigslist or post a WTB thread on here and on CIBA's website.

Just my two cents; YMMV. :)

[nscrbug]

I live just outside of Chicago, so our fall weather can really swing up and down the spectrum. Last weekend, it was in the high 40's/low 50's when we headed out...but expected to get to 70. Since we usually try to be back home by 12noon, I opted for my Descente knickers and long-sleeve jersey. I was a tad bit chilled for the first 1/2 hour or so, but after that, was quite comfortable.

Yesterday, it was in the low 60's starting out, but drizzling. Again, I wore my knickers (PI this time), a lightweight merino wool base and a windbreaker type cycling jacket. Was a bit warm initially, but once I was sufficiently WET from the steady rain...I was FREEZING for the remainder of the ride. Yeah, my jacket was NOT water-resistant, so the merino wool top got soaked and didn't do much in the way of regulating my temperature.

Today it was high 50's when we started with an expected high of near 80. I had plans of shooting for 100 miles today, so would be out a bit longer. I opted for shorts, short-sleeved jersey with arm warmers (which I removed 40 miles into the ride), and was comfortable.

I love knickers. I have 4 pairs - Shebeest, Descente, PI, and PI Thermal. For tights, I rotate between 4 pairs - PI Thermal, Sugoi Sub-Zero, Performance Tri-Flex, and Under Armour (all unpadded because I prefer to wear my favorite shorts underneath). I do also have 1 pair of padded tights that I recently bought from Sierra Trading Post - Descente ColdOut Tights...couldn't pass them up for the price. I have yet to try them out.

[jelee1311]

I live in the PNW we get more cold rain than snow but last year we got 13degrees and wind. In winter I wear shorts with gore wear leg warmers,shortsleeved jersey longsleeved under amour shirt, gore wear arm warmers ,and a gore wear jacket. Oh yeah smartwool socks booties and those fantastic hand warmer in the toe of my shoes. It sounds like a lot but it seems to work. So far I am glad I invested in gore wear I don't think they make a product I have not liked.

[Owlie]

I've been wanting a pair of warm tights. My legwarmers just don't cut it if it's below about 40F. Last time I went out in the cold, I had on a pair of lined track pants that I tucked into my socks...over my shorts and leg warmers. I was nice and toasty, even if I looked funny. :D

My upper body cold gear is sorted, though. Craft base layer or Smartwool tank, depending on the weather. Long-sleeve jersey. Jacket that (according to manufacturer) is good down to 25. I'm not going out in anything that's significantly below freezing, though, as it also tends to be icy...

[nscrbug]

I've been wanting a pair of warm tights. My legwarmers just don't cut it if it's below about 40F. Last time I went out in the cold, I had on a pair of lined track pants that I tucked into my socks...over my shorts and leg warmers. I was nice and toasty, even if I looked funny. :D

My upper body cold gear is sorted, though. Craft base layer or Smartwool tank, depending on the weather. Long-sleeve jersey. Jacket that (according to manufacturer) is good down to 25. I'm not going out in anything that's significantly below freezing, though, as it also tends to be icy...

If you're looking to go "cheap" (assuming you want unpadded tights), I would suggest the TriFlex or Radiator tights from Performance Bike. On the more pricey side, would be Pearl Izumi's AmFib tight.