Insulting compliments

[lauraelmore1033]

:confused:
Ever get those?
Did the Apple Century over the weekend, and was so proud of the fact that DH and I were cookin' right along, passing people right and left (well, really only on the left, but you know what I mean...) and made quite an improvement on our previous performance. We kept leap-frogging back and forth with a certain pace line for most of the ride--mainly because they kept having flats and/or other mechanical issues. After the ride, as I was lying in a heap digesting a surprisingly delicious burger, the lone woman from the group came up to gush on about how impressed she was with me. I was totally eating it up until she asked if this was my first century! Why would you assume that?:confused: This happens to be my third season of doing not only centuries, but double centuries! I guess I'm just too sensitive, because it totally killed my buzz.:o

[Biciclista]

maybe she never saw you before? and maybe it was HER first century and wanted to commiserate with someone. I did that ride on a tandem too. It was SO FUN!!!

PS i don't see the insult.

[Crankin]

I would take that as an insult, too. It's a veiled way of saying, "Oh, you did well for a first timer," when she had no idea of how many times you had done the ride.
This is why I don't ride with any groups except the one I ride with, because they are older, have all "been there, done that," and accept everyone at whatever level they are at.

[tulip]

I wouldn't let one person's comment dampen your whole effort and day. Goodness, it was only one person. I don't see the insult in the comment, but that doesn't matter because you do. But regardless, why let one perceived slight ruin all that you accomplished?

Congratulations. It sounds like a great day.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I don't see that as an insult either, just friendly chat...but oh well.

Be glad she didn't ask you if it was your last century! :D

[Owlie]

That sounds like something I would have said as a means of trying to make conversation. :o I can see how it could be an insult, if it was meant that way. Of course, it depends on how it was said.

[ny biker]

That sounds like something I would have said as a means of trying to make conversation. :o I can see how it could be an insult, if it was meant that way. Of course, it depends on how it was said.

That's what I'm thinking -- could just be an attempt at some small talk. Besides who cares what other people think? Just enjoy the ride.

[uforgot]

I wouldn't take it to heart. She probably just said it without thinking. I'm a master at that. She may have meant your first one this year, or like someone else said, it was HER first century and she was focused on her accomplishment at the moment. Apparently it was a great ride and your hard work has paid off. Congrats!

[Trek420]

We kept leap-frogging back and forth with a certain pace line for most of the ride--mainly because they kept having flats and/or other mechanical issues.

Sometimes stuff just happens, flats mechanicals etc But first or four hundred and first you maintained your speed and your bike. I think it was the great Eddy M. who said "you're faster going than not going" and you went fast and with nothing that landed you by the side of the road.

It sounds like something you say when you don't know what else to say and a whole group has been chasing a rabbit .... that rabbit being you ... for a 100 miles. ;)

I'd take it as a compliment. :D

[lauraelmore1033]

Sometimes stuff just happens, flats mechanicals etc But first or four hundred and first you maintained your speed and your bike. I think it was the great Eddy M. who said "you're faster going than not going" and you went fast and with nothing that landed you by the side of the road.

It sounds like something you say when you don't know what else to say and a whole group has been chasing a rabbit .... that rabbit being you ... for a 100 miles. ;)

I'd take it as a compliment. :D

:D:D Garsh what a wonderful sentiment!
That puts it into a different perspective, doesn't it. (although, I will concede that I was probably being a little too sensitive...)

Thanks for all the input!

[malaholic]

Yeah, I tend to agree with the other ladies - since everything else she was saying seemed to be complimentary, the "first century" question probably was not meant in a condescending way.

I appreciate hearing your perspective on this though....because a question like that is exactly the sort of question I might ask someone on a ride, and it's good for me to realize that it might not always be taken that way! I am forever sticking my foot in my mouth saying things that are easily taken in a way I didn't mean them, and I'm really trying to work on that. :)

Maybe a better question to start a chat would be something more along the lines of "have you done this ride before?" instead of "is this your first century?"

[lph]

You know, I would have been miffed too, at being taken for a beginner when I felt that I'd really achieved something and made a noticeable improvement. That said, it was obviously not meant as an insult, and probably just fell out of her mouth as casual conversation. And definitely, if ishe is a beginner herself it's a natural thing to say because it's what she's all aglow about herself.

I'll add one: my favourite "insulting compliment" came from an middle-aged gentleman a few years ago who asked me and a (girl)friend of mine, as we arrived at a parking lot on skis out of the mountains with sleds and camping gear, if we'd "really been out there all alone" :D

i.e. without any men :rolleyes:

[NW_Meg]

Years ago I was riding RAMROD - by far my biggest feat at that time! I trained alone & rode alone - and even though I'm a slow, solid, back-of-the-packer, I was so proud to be cruising along ("cruising" may be a generous term for me on those steep climbs). But the point is I felt invincible & full of joy... until.... two men rode past at a nice clip and one leaned in and said "Good job, lady."

In hindsight I am sure he meant to be supportive & encouraging - nothing else. But that day I heard "I can't believe you're still upright given how slow you're pedaling, you foolish old broad. Boy will I be shocked to see you at the finish line." I was hurt, insulted, embarrassed.

Even now my blood starts to curdle when I think of it. I get over it by enumerating in my mind the endless number of dumbass things I've surely muttered over the years when I meant to be kind, supportive & encouraging.

Frankly, I think you're a ROCK STAR for riding the Apple Century. I did it once and the headwinds nearly killed me!!!!!

[Crankin]

I guess I am very sensitive. No, let's say I know I am sensitive. Even though I say I am not competitive, I hate it when it's "in my face" that someone is a better rider, even though I don't necessarily have the desire to put in the time or training to get faster. It just kind of reminds me of my limitations, which I don't like. I try and put it in perspective and think about my friends who are not active at all; they think I'm an Ironwoman.
I find that women often give more of these veiled compliments than men, although, I have had a couple of comments like NW_Meg received, on hard rides.
I even feel this way when I ride with DH and he might charge up a small hill ahead of me. I am a pretty good climber for an old lady, but I know I will never be able to do what he does. It's not that I sit around all day thinking about this, but secretly, I think I would like to be like all these strong, fast people, but I just started too late in life.

[colby]

I have to be careful with this one, because I've done this myself (meant well as I compliment another rider in passing). I've started to think about these same "words of encouragement" being taken as condescending to the person hearing them. Often they come at a time of struggle - riding a hill, later miles of a long ride, during/after a hard ride/race - which means the person hearing them might not be hearing them as words of encouragement either, considering you are PASSING them at such a time. ;)

I try to assume when someone says something to me that they mean well, but it is still hard not to hear "great job, but I'm still better than you" when someone passes and says "great job". I also tend to think about whether I'm the person that looks like I need help and encouragement in order to make it. I just have to remind myself to stay positive... and when I pass them back I will say "great job" right back. :) I also try to keep my compliments to myself more now, because I am afraid of how they will be construed, unless I can have a whole conversation with someone - something like "I've been chasing you all day, you're a really strong climber, it's only downhill and on the flats that I can catch up, must be all that momentum I get from my fat ***" ;)

[GLC1968]

I am sooo sensitive to this, myself. I try not to take things personally, and on the outside, that's how I behave...but inside I might be seething!

A big part of it comes from never truly LOOKING the part. Even when I was at my fitest, I was still bigger than most other athletes and people who didn't know me tended to treat me as a newbie. I always HATED joining a new gym (still do) and listening to all the drivel about needing 3 sessions with a personal trainer to set up a beginner program....for pete's sake - I've been lifting for the past decade (even if I don't look like it)...I don't need an introduction to the machines! And no, it's not just that they say this to everyone because my husband was right next to me and they had the balls to say to him "you look like you know your way around a gym, we can skip the sessions if you'd like". Seriously? I have more weight lifting knowledge than he does! (It happens with us all the time because he looks fit and I don't...even if I am)

Ok, sorry about the tangent. Clearly this hits a nerve with me. :o

What I came in here to say was that I tend to make comments to other runners or bikers that I pass that are more centered on shared misery or shared joy. Like - "wow, great view from up here, huh?" Or "ugh, is this hill over yet?". Even if I'm passing them (exceedingly rare on a run!), I'm probably struggling too! I just don't feel right saying "good job" when I've been in their shoes and that 'good job' made me feel the need to say back 'no really, I know I'm slow...it's not a good job...it's only a mediocre job at best!'. :p

[lauraelmore1033]

So many of you hit it right on the head with your comments and expressed exactly what I was feeling! Now I do feel better. I will always hear, "nice job, fat lady, but I'm still faster than you", and I should really just learn to take these comments as they were intended. and too, I should remember that when I offer words of encouragement to someone else, it is often something I need to hear myself.
Dh, who is a much faster climber than I am, also found himself exasperated by well meaning words of encouragement on the same ride. He would get way ahead on the climb, and as he was waiting paitiently for me, people descending would say, "you're almost there, don't give up yet!". He told me that he was going to throw a rock at the next person who told him not to give up!

Oh, that health club thing drives me crazy, GLC!

[ny biker]

I am frequently amazed by the clueslessness of people working in health clubs. It's best to ignore them as much as possible.

I'm also pretty sure that there are very few people in this world who intentionally insult strangers on bike rides, or anywhere else for that matter. If someone really does feel the need to point out that they are better than you, it means that deep down they are horribly insecure and probably full of self-loathing, so you should feel sorry for them.

But despite being a rather cynical person I believe in almost every case people are just trying to be friendly. And in general I think that's better than a world where people ignore each other.

[MM_QFC!]

Great job! I rode the Apple Century several times and always enjoyed it. It sounds like you and your DH had a great time - rode your own ride, did well, had fun, finished safely, so I'd agree with the advice to let the thoughtless and probably well-intentioned comment just slide off your back fender!




:confused:
Ever get those?
Did the Apple Century over the weekend, and was so proud of the fact that DH and I were cookin' right along, passing people right and left (well, really only on the left, but you know what I mean...) and made quite an improvement on our previous performance. We kept leap-frogging back and forth with a certain pace line for most of the ride--mainly because they kept having flats and/or other mechanical issues. After the ride, as I was lying in a heap digesting a surprisingly delicious burger, the lone woman from the group came up to gush on about how impressed she was with me. I was totally eating it up until she asked if this was my first century! Why would you assume that?:confused: This happens to be my third season of doing not only centuries, but double centuries! I guess I'm just too sensitive, because it totally killed my buzz.:o

[MM_QFC!]

Years ago I was riding RAMROD - by far my biggest feat at that time! I trained alone & rode alone - and even though I'm a slow, solid, back-of-the-packer, I was so proud to be cruising along ("cruising" may be a generous term for me on those steep climbs). But the point is I felt invincible & full of joy... until.... two men rode past at a nice clip and one leaned in and said "Good job, lady."

In hindsight I am sure he meant to be supportive & encouraging - nothing else. But that day I heard "I can't believe you're still upright given how slow you're pedaling, you foolish old broad. Boy will I be shocked to see you at the finish line." I was hurt, insulted, embarrassed.

Even now my blood starts to curdle when I think of it. I get over it by enumerating in my mind the endless number of dumbass things I've surely muttered over the years when I meant to be kind, supportive & encouraging.

Frankly, I think you're a ROCK STAR for riding the Apple Century. I did it once and the headwinds nearly killed me!!!!!

Hey there - hmmmm, never knew of the comment or that you had a such a "hurt, insulted, embarrassed" reaction on most of a very tough ride - when you were already dealing with an ailing knee - whew!

Still proud of your ROCK STAR ride!

[bcipam]

I've changed what I say to others now after this happened.. several months ago a friend and I met for our usual weekly mtb ride. I am always slow and pokey but strong and know the trail well, having done it 1000's of times over 25 years. My friend invited two other ladies along for the ride - each had never ridden the Canyon before. The 4 of us take off... the new ladies are off like a shot and my friend had to struggle to keep up. Me? Did my usual pokey but consistant pace. I knew how far I was riding and wanted to warm up properly.

After the first long hill everyone was waiting. The new ladies said respectively "Good Job, you are doing so well!" "Awesome, you made it up the hill!!!!". What? Of course I made it up the hill; I do this ride every week! And doing so well? Better than what? Clearly not the ladies who rode out ahead? What are they comparing me too???? We are off again and same thing happens on the next hill. The third time it happens "Good job!" "Awesome" I gave my friend one of those looks - you know "I am going to kill you later" looks. She got the hint and knew not to stop and wait any longer. I just fell off the back so I didn't have to heard the ladies chattering. After another long hill I heard one of the ladies coming down... she was done/too tired to go on and as she rode down I got one more "Good job! You are almost to the top!" I almost turned around to strangle her!!! Thankfully my friend and the other lady rode ahead and I was able to complete the ride to the turn around in peace.

At the turn around (12 miles out) I met up with the ladies. The new friend was exhausted and very tired. Of course she went out very quick and hard and didn't warm up. As we descended, we hit some technical spots and she took a bad fall. I rode past and had to stiffle the urge to say "Awesome - you were doing so well!" and instead stopped and helped her up. Thankfully, since this was my trail and mountain, I had the skill to ride ahead of her and not heard those words of "discouragement" again.

So now when I see someone ride by or up and I say something like "Great day to be riding!" or "Isn't that fun to ride!?!". There are times when "awesome" or "good job" are the right words but those times are truly special or reserved for 8 year olds!

[ny biker]

I've changed what I say to others now after this happened.. several months ago a friend and I met for our usual weekly mtb ride. I am always slow and pokey but strong and know the trail well, having done it 1000's of times over 25 years. My friend invited two other ladies along for the ride - each had never ridden the Canyon before. The 4 of us take off... the new ladies are off like a shot and my friend had to struggle to keep up. Me? Did my usual pokey but consistant pace. I knew how far I was riding and wanted to warm up properly.

After the first long hill everyone was waiting. The new ladies said respectively "Good Job, you are doing so well!" "Awesome, you made it up the hill!!!!". What? Of course I made it up the hill; I do this ride every week! And doing so well? Better than what? Clearly not the ladies who rode out ahead? What are they comparing me too???? We are off again and same thing happens on the next hill. The third time it happens "Good job!" "Awesome" I gave my friend one of those looks - you know "I am going to kill you later" looks. She got the hint and knew not to stop and wait any longer. I just fell off the back so I didn't have to heard the ladies chattering. After another long hill I heard one of the ladies coming down... she was done/too tired to go on and as she rode down I got one more "Good job! You are almost to the top!" I almost turned around to strangle her!!! Thankfully my friend and the other lady rode ahead and I was able to complete the ride to the turn around in peace.

At the turn around (12 miles out) I met up with the ladies. The new friend was exhausted and very tired. Of course she went out very quick and hard and didn't warm up. As we descended, we hit some technical spots and she took a bad fall. I rode past and had to stiffle the urge to say "Awesome - you were doing so well!" and instead stopped and helped her up. Thankfully, since this was my trail and mountain, I had the skill to ride ahead of her and not heard those words of "discouragement" again.

So now when I see someone ride by or up and I say something like "Great day to be riding!" or "Isn't that fun to ride!?!". There are times when "awesome" or "good job" are the right words but those times are truly special or reserved for 8 year olds!


See, after the first time I would have said something like, thanks, but I do this ride all the time and I knew I would make it up the hill. I'm just pacing myself because it's going to be a long day.

[BikeDutchess]

I must say when I first started doing longer rides (and really still), I loved hearing "awesome" or "good job" from the riders that were zooming by me. I considered it a nice little boost and it always gave me a little energy to keep going. It never occurred to me that some might consider such a comment insulting, and I'm sure none of those comments were meant as such. I know there will always be better riders than me out there, and I'd rather hear a well-intentioned comment than have them just ignore me as not worthy to communicate with. This has been an eye-opening thread, and it will at least make me think a little before I throw out my own encouraging comments to other riders out there (which I don't do very often because I'm usually the slug anyway!).

[Bike Chick]

I am like GLC here. I am sensitive to remarks because as badly as I would like to look like an athlete, I don't. I am much closer to the gray-headed ole grandma stereotype and I think people assume this is my first anything. I understand how it doesn't sit well. I know people mean well but after someone passes me on a hill and tells me I'm doing a good job I want to reply with a crude obscenity. The same goes for the people sitting in their lawn chairs watching me run past at mile 12. Really mean retorts run through my head. Maybe I'm just not a social sufferer and enjoy my privacy. It has also made me aware of what not to say to folks on a ride.

On the other hand, I am also known for making some stupid, dumbass remark in an attempt to start a conversation.......it sounds like something I would say.

[bcipam]

See, after the first time I would have said something like, thanks, but I do this ride all the time and I knew I would make it up the hill. I'm just pacing myself because it's going to be a long day.

Oh we had that conversation before the ride... both my friend and I said this is our weekly ride and we were happy to show them the ropes. I also explained don't worry about me, I warm up slowly. I think this is why it irritated me so. After the second hill, and I was getting alittle irritated, my friend asked "are you OK?" she meant with the comments, I knew that. I responded "I'm fine, you know me just trying to warm up!" So when the third time came around, sorry I was fuming. Of course afterwards my friend and I had a good laugh and I felt better!

Like I said, I am now very concious about saying "good job" "doing well", "looking good" "almost there" anything like that... BTW I never thought the statements were meant to be insulting and I acknowledge it was my own insecurity that caused the problem but I do find sometimes, women, bless them, can be condescending or not sincere with their encouragement. I told my friend if a guy said it, it wouldn't have bothered me as much - my friend thought that odd. I didn't - my theory is women should know more about how women ride and understand... men we know are clueless! ;)

[Alex]

I've never been one to say "great job" or "looking good" or any such things as I am passing someone. It feels strange to me to say that if I am blowing by them. I'm more likely to say "beautiful day" or "how are ya?"

On the other hand, I always smile and say "thanks" or "you, too" if someone passes me and says something like that. I agree with the folks who said that most people are not out to say intentionally nasty things in such circumstances.

At least your insulting compliment was a compliment of sorts. :) At least week's tri, I was on the run, and a woman passed me and said, "We may be slow, but we'll finish." Now, I know I am not a fast runner, but I wasn't feeling like I was particularly dragging or anything. In fact, I felt pretty darn good. I kept her in my sights for a while and then passed her with authority saying, "You were an excellent rabbit in that bright pink shirt! Thanks!"

I do wonder if I would have had a negative split had she not made the "WE may be slow" comment! ;)

[snowroo]

How we react is sometimes a reflection of our own self rather than the motivation of others.

The ladies were meaning to be encouraging. They were trying to be nice. How you interpret that is a reflection of your own personal "stuff".

I would chose to interpret their comments as a sign of respect that you are working hard and are achieving your goal. Why chose to interpret as negative and put a downer on your ride and your day.

[Crankin]

Well, it might be a reflection of myself, and myself gets pissed at those comments! Because someone slower than me does not make those comments! Only those passing me do.
I feel just like Bike Chick. I'd like to scream obscenities. While I *do* look like the inner athlete I would like to be, my body has other ideas. I never say "good job" to anyone, except when I am riding with my friend who is a newer rider and still trying to get faster. She appreciates it.

[Catrin]

Well, it might be a reflection of myself, and myself gets pissed at those comments! Because someone slower than me does not make those comments! Only those passing me do.
I feel just like Bike Chick. I'd like to scream obscenities. While I *do* look like the inner athlete I would like to be, my body has other ideas. I never say "good job" to anyone, except when I am riding with my friend who is a newer rider and still trying to get faster. She appreciates it.

As a new rider I do appreciate this as I am still focusing on basic skills - but don't know how I would take it from someone zooming past me at triple my speed. Then again, such people don't usually say anything because they are too busy focusing on what they are doing - and at that speed they need to be :)

In the end - especially depending on how we are feeling and the situation- those two words can hit us very differently. This is what I would expect my personal trainer or a coach to say - not strangers.

[OakLeaf]

I think you only have to think about how it feels to be told "You look like you've been doing this for a while!" - to know that it's an insult to assume someone is a complete newbie.

Still, it does seem that at all levels and all types of cycling, there's a fairly strong snob factor. On the road, at least - I don't know for mountain biking, maybe the off-road crowd is different. Bicycle racing is like most forms of racing, just plain cut-throat, someone from another team won't say anything at all unless it's a subtle insult meant to psych you out. And whether you're a commuter, tourist, or participant in an organized ride, it's not unusual for another cyclist to sneer at you for SOMETHING, whether it's an article of clothing, a technique, your hair, whatever. :rolleyes:

The contrast with running is pretty stark, to me, and that's what's interesting. As a new runner I'm like Catrin as a new rider - I'm not insulted if someone assumes I'm a new runner, because I AM one - but one of the things that's so cool to me about foot races (mid-pack and slower, anyway) is how encouraging everyone is. If you saved too much at the start so that you zoom by somebody late in the race, they DO cheer you on. And etiquette seems to be if you hang around at the finish, you're supposed to cheer for those finishing behind you.

So I guess my take is kind of mixed. I do think it's an unequivocal insult to assume someone is doing something for the first time. Even if it IS their first time, they don't need to be reminded how woefully unprepared they appear to everyone else. But I don't think it's an insult to tell someone they're doing well in a NON-competitive setting, even if the person saying it happens to be faster. (If they were THAT much faster, they wouldn't even be in the same neighborhood to be able to say it, for one thing. ;))

[lph]

Road riding for exercise is heavily male-dominated here, and being lighter than most of these guys I tend to do well on hills (though I suck majorly on the flats). But when passing someone on a hill I never know if they're on their first or 5th lap, or if they've ridden 80 miles just to get here, or if it's the day after a race or whatever. So if anything I settle for a brief, friendly smile, or maybe an exasperated "d*mn I hate this hill!", or sometimes "did you know I've been chasing you for miles!" if the guy is cute and I'm up to it ;)

[ny biker]

I think you only have to think about how it feels to be told "You look like you've been doing this for a while!" - to know that it's an insult to assume someone is a complete newbie.

Still, it does seem that at all levels and all types of cycling, there's a fairly strong snob factor. On the road, at least - I don't know for mountain biking, maybe the off-road crowd is different. Bicycle racing is like most forms of racing, just plain cut-throat, someone from another team won't say anything at all unless it's a subtle insult meant to psych you out. And whether you're a commuter, tourist, or participant in an organized ride, it's not unusual for another cyclist to sneer at you for SOMETHING, whether it's an article of clothing, a technique, your hair, whatever. :rolleyes:

The contrast with running is pretty stark, to me, and that's what's interesting. As a new runner I'm like Catrin as a new rider - I'm not insulted if someone assumes I'm a new runner, because I AM one - but one of the things that's so cool to me about foot races (mid-pack and slower, anyway) is how encouraging everyone is. If you saved too much at the start so that you zoom by somebody late in the race, they DO cheer you on. And etiquette seems to be if you hang around at the finish, you're supposed to cheer for those finishing behind you.

So I guess my take is kind of mixed. I do think it's an unequivocal insult to assume someone is doing something for the first time. Even if it IS their first time, they don't need to be reminded how woefully unprepared they appear to everyone else. But I don't think it's an insult to tell someone they're doing well in a NON-competitive setting, even if the person saying it happens to be faster. (If they were THAT much faster, they wouldn't even be in the same neighborhood to be able to say it, for one thing. ;))

Um, first of all, in my experience it IS unusual for a cyclist to sneer at other cyclists, for any reason. And the DC metro area is not exactly known for it's warm fuzzy polite people.

And it wasn't clear to me that the person in the OP was assuming anything. And being a first-timer doesn't mean you look woefully unprepared. Really, I think people are reading way too much into other people's attempts to be friendly.

[GLC1968]

(If they were THAT much faster, they wouldn't even be in the same neighborhood to be able to say it, for one thing. ;))

Unless it's durring a triathlon where there are wave starts based on age. By the time you get to the run portion, there are super fast people who have only been out there an hour with super slow people who have already been competiting for almost 2 hours when they get passed!

I agree with LPH who pointed out that (unless it's a race), you have no idea what that other person has already ridden. I remember once when we first started riding we were training for a century. We were purposely riding mid-day to get heat aclimitized (nuts, I know!) and it was probably 102F as we were just finishing up an 85 mile ride and heading home. Both my H and I were totally dragging and we were pased by a slightly older group of men who didn't say much except "nice heat, huh?" as they passed us. They stopped at the gas station up ahead and we did too to get more fluids. We chatted a bit and when they learned that we were finishing up 85 miles in that heat, their regard for us completely changed. It was very noticeable.

Anyway, I never assume that just because someone is moving slowly that they are new or inexperienced. Hell, for all I know, they may be a Cat1 racer who may have just had surgery or something!

Doing something stupid or dangerous? THEN I assume newbie. And only then. ;)

[ny biker]

Doing something stupid or dangerous? THEN I assume newbie. And only then. ;)

Not in DC. Plenty of experienced riders do stupid and dangerous things around here.

[GLC1968]

Not in DC. Plenty of experienced riders do stupid and dangerous things around here.

So what? I don't care what someone's experience is - if they intentionally do something stupid or dangerous, they get no respect from me.

I'd be happy to 'insult' those people by assuming that they are newbies and making comments to that effect. ;)

[ny biker]

So what? I don't care what someone's experience is - if they intentionally do something stupid or dangerous, they get no respect from me.

I'd be happy to 'insult' those people by assuming that they are newbies and making comments to that effect. ;)

So now it's okay to intentionally insult people?

[tulip]

Really, I think people are reading way too much into other people's attempts to be friendly.

+1! I feel like saying, "Lighten up, people!" but that will probably offend someone.

[PamNY]

Um, first of all, in my experience it IS unusual for a cyclist to sneer at other cyclists, for any reason. And the DC metro area is not exactly known for it's warm fuzzy polite people. .

I agree -- my interactions with cyclists are usually great. And I'm in Manhattan.
Racing I know nothing about, but plain old bikers are the best.

As far as the OP's experience, honestly, I would have noticed it. But it could just be an awkward attempt to be friendly.

[GLC1968]

So now it's okay to intentionally insult people?

I'm not talking about intending to insult anyone. This thread is about UNintentionally insulting people, right? My comment was that there are certain people whom I don't really care if I accidentally insult them if I have a point to make.

If someone does something as a cyclist that is dangerous or stupid, it reflects on all of us. I don't care how much experience they have, if I have opportunity to say something about it, I will. I frankly don't care if what I say insults them, they need to be told. Sorry if that offends people, that's how I feel.

(this is why I put insult in quotes in my previous post - my intention wouldn't be to insult, it would be to inform)

[Zen]

So now it's okay to intentionally insult people?

Yes.
My go to insult is "you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny".
Or 'I know I am but what are you?"

[TxDoc]

Really, I think people are reading way too much into other people's attempts to be friendly.

I agree with you.
Most people just want to be nice, help, and make new friends - so how about sometimes we lighten up, smile, and appreciate a kind gesture?
:)

[BikeDutchess]

Really, I think people are reading way too much into other people's attempts to be friendly.

+3! And some have honestly admitted that it may be more a reflection of their own insecurities or sensitivities than other people's intentions.

[Crankin]

And I am glad to see there are others who are just as sensitive as me about this stuff.
On the other hand, there's a lot of stuff that doesn't bother me at all, compared to most people.

[ny biker]

I'm not talking about intending to insult anyone. This thread is about UNintentionally insulting people, right? My comment was that there are certain people whom I don't really care if I accidentally insult them if I have a point to make.

If someone does something as a cyclist that is dangerous or stupid, it reflects on all of us. I don't care how much experience they have, if I have opportunity to say something about it, I will. I frankly don't care if what I say insults them, they need to be told. Sorry if that offends people, that's how I feel.

(this is why I put insult in quotes in my previous post - my intention wouldn't be to insult, it would be to inform)


I'm sorry but just because you see someone do something stupid, you can't assume intent or lack of knowledge -- they might have done something thoughtlessly or made a split-second decision and then realized that they made a mistake. This happens to me from time to time and I do my best to learn from it. It's ironic that you don't want me to make assumptions based on what I see when I look at you, but you think it's okay for you to make assumptions based on what you see when you look at someone else.

And I think I will never ever talk to strangers on a bike ride again because no matter how friendly I genuinely am trying to be, I apparently need to assume that the person will think my intent was to insult them.

[tulip]

To the OP and others who find such comments as in the original post offensive, perhaps this will help. It has helped me--I used to get really insecure at people's comments or actions, thinking the world--and everyone's else's world--revolved around me for better AND for worse. I finally got over that and realized that mostly people just don't notice the things I notice about myself.

You CANNOT control what other people think, do, or say. You CAN control your reaction to them. You have the choice to let the comment get to you, or you can Let. It. Go.

The choice is yours.

:)

[snowroo]

I am fine accepting that people are faster than me. So if a faster person says good job, I'll take the encouragement and acknowledgement that I'm doing a good job *at my level*. I appreciate the intent.

Heck I'll take whatever positive I can get!

If a faster person says good job, could it be that its actually that you're pissed that people are better than you. You thus interpret that they think they're better than you and thus you interpret that they are being condecending.

The negative is coming from inside of you. Most likely those women were intending positive. You choose to interpret it negatively because of your own "stuff".

You cannot control the words and actions of others. You are in total control how you react to the words and actions of others. You can chose to be a pissy person or a positive individual. Who do you think is happier and easier to be around.

[GLC1968]

I'm sorry but just because you see someone do something stupid, you can't assume intent or lack of knowledge -- they might have done something thoughtlessly or made a split-second decision and then realized that they made a mistake. This happens to me from time to time and I do my best to learn from it. It's ironic that you don't want me to make assumptions based on what I see when I look at you, but you think it's okay for you to make assumptions based on what you see when you look at someone else.


What we have here is a failure to communicate.

My only assumption was when you talked about "plenty of experienced riders who do stupid and dangerous things" you meant that they were doing those things on purpose.

If you meant otherwise, then I misunderstood.

[Crankin]

Yes, when a faster person says, "good job," to me I am pissed that they are faster. It feels condescending. Good job at what? Being slower than them? They don't know anything about me.
I realize quite well that this is in my head. But, I don't think some realize how this can make someone feel, when you are trying as hard as you can and can't go any faster, for whatever reason.
Most of the time, I don't want to be going faster than I am at any given moment. But, I would appreciate, a "hello", or "nice day" comment more than "good job." I know when I pass someone going slower than me, I just say, "good morning", or whatever.

[Veronica]

Why does "good job" have to be about going fast? Why is everyone so obsessed with being fast? Okay, I get it, if you're racing. Yeah, I want to be fast when I'm competing. But if you're out there riding your bike for fun, why be obsessed with where you are on the road in comparison to someone else? There's a lot more to bike riding than the being the first one up the hill. I think it's a compliment unless you can hear the sarcasm in their voice. And if it's a total stranger, you have no way of knowing if that is their sarcastic voice or not. :D

And just for the record at every tri, when I'm looking around at all the twig girls who are guaranteed to kick my butt on the bike and the run I remind myself that MY race is not about them.

Veronica

[redrhodie]

[QUOTE=Veronica;513932]Why does "good job" have to be about going fast? Why is everyone so obsessed with being fast? Okay, I get it, if you're racing. Yeah, I want to be fast when I'm competing. But if you're out there riding your bike for fun, why be obsessed with where you are on the road in comparison to someone else? There's a lot more to bike riding than the being the first one up the hill.

Thank you for that. I totally agree.

[Bike Chick]

You CANNOT control what other people think, do, or say. You CAN control your reaction to them. You have the choice to let the comment get to you, or you can Let. It. Go.

The choice is yours.

:)

You are exactly right, Tulip, and I get my feelings hurt because of my own insecurities. We all encourage and support each other on this forum and are respectful of each other's feelings no matter what our fitness or experience levels are. Does anyone think that would be any different if we were on a group ride? I think people genuinely make an attempt to be supportive and friendly even though it may be received otherwise. How many times has someone said something to a group and you perceived it differently from someone else? It may just depend on what it going on in your head at that particular time.

[mstevens]

Wow, I wish I had read this thread a couple days ago. I've been looking for advice on how to get faster, because my BF finally got faster than me and it just makes me insane. I really needed to be better than him at something. Why? Because I'm insecure!

I got some great tips, and I know I can get faster. But I understand now that what was really pissing me off were his comments. He'd pull away, then wait for me and say something like, "How are you feeling today?" Sounds innocent, but he never asks that when I'm in front! Or, "Are you staying hydrated?" Gee, thanks for caring. Yes, I know how to take care of myself. I.e. I'm not a newbie, at least not compared to him.

But, relationship issues aside (and yes I'm considering couples counseling,) I really do get how a compliment or encouragement can feel like an insult. And it has alot to do with the stereotypical images we all carry around about what an athlete looks like. I sure don't look like one. More than once, when I've gone shopping for running shoes or some other athletic gear, the clerk has asked, "Is this for you?" Assuming, perhaps, that I'm shopping for a family member?

But we're all only human, and it's human to sort information into categories to try to make sense of it. Hence, stereotypes. My own best friend "forgot" that I had run for years, including a marathon, and introduced me to another friend as a new runner at an event. Not much we can do, except speak our truth when we can, and forgive our fellow humans!

[nscrbug]

Interesting topic...as I too, struggle with insecurity in regards to my biking abilities...and really, all of my athletic abilities. I can totally relate to the "not looking the part" thing...even though I have been active and involved in biking, running, swimming, spinning, gym workouts, and strength training for well over half of my life (I'm 44, btw). One my of regular cycling partners is a really great guy who constantly offers lots of encouragement, along with a little "tough love" thrown in for good measure. But sometimes, I find it annoying and frustrating, when he thinks he is encouraging me and giving me a mental boost...when in reality, it's the complete opposite. :rolleyes: But I know he means well, so I try not to dwell on it so much. I have pretty low self-esteem to begin with, so it's very difficult for me to accept compliments (insulting or not).

Linda

[Grog]

I've been thinking about this thread on my way to work and back this week, and have had conflicting feelings about it.

The best conclusion I can reach is: if I really want to know (and I'm not sure I would, but who knows.. sometimes conversation risks drawing to a blank), throwing "So have you been doing centuries for a long time?" in the conversation is really the way to go.

[Ritamarie]

My first thought reading through this thread was "Geez, you ladies are so sensitive!" But I've learned a lot from the thread. In retrospect I am guilty of giving insulting compliment (certainly not on purpose!) in the past. I'll certainly be more careful!

[Deborajen]

This is a good thread.--

Last fall, I was running in a 5K Mayor's Challenge. Our Mayor decided in April to commit to a healthier lifestyle - exercise, better eating habits, etc. - and he challenged anyone to beat him at a 5K race in October. So I'm running along at the back of the pack and at about mile 1 (or 1K, I don't recall) I ended up passing the mayor. We were the only two people for a big stretch so I felt like I had to say something. So I told him "you're doing great!" He said "I think they lengthened the course!" So I said "find a good pace and keep at it - you'll get there." Ever since, I wondered how that must have sounded - to be passed by some woman and being told he's "doing great." :o I'm almost never the one doing the passing. I wanted to be a good sport and offer some encouragement, you know? I admire the man. It takes a lot of courage for a 50-year-old, kind of overweight man to announce to an entire city that he's going to be more healthy and then show his commitment by running a 5K 5 months later. But what an awkward time to try to come up with some profound words. He seemed to be pretty good-natured about the whole event - after the race he was posing for pictures with people who had "I Beat the Mayor" t-shirts.

On the other hand, I got passed during my first group bike ride and got a good laugh out of what was said. It was about half way through a 50-mile ride and I was bonking - bad. I was riding up an obnoxious little hill and a couple of middle-aged men (my age) passed me. They both smiled and one of them said, "you're setting a good pace for us." I think I was going about 6 mph and thought I'd tip over at any moment but, well, I was ahead of them! So it struck me as really funny. I said, "I think I'm about whipped" -- so they told me to hang in there.--

I guess my point is I think most people are trying to be good sports when they say something as they pass - and sometimes it sounds that way and sometimes it doesn't.

[pinkbikes]

I am guilty of all this (and more I'm sure)...

I often offer encouragement when I pass somebody ("come on - you're doing great") even if they are probably not doing great but I just want to give them a little boost along.:)

I am often told by people passing me "come on - you're doing great" when I am probably not either! And I know I'm not doing great (by somebody else's yardstick anyway) but I'm doing whatever I can and I take their possibly insulting compliment and I thank them for it, because I genuinely expect that they are trying hard to be encouraging and it does give me little boost even if I know it's crap!:o

The one that probably really WAS an insulting compliment I could only laugh at. I was recently at a cross country triathlon. You swim in a dam, ride MTB and run cross country. I often do this event series in a team, usually as the swimmer because none of my team mates can swim for crumpets and I'm pretty decent. All that buoyancy has to count for something!:D

So this particular event, the date had been changed and my team hadn't entered, but the night before I got a plea to fill in from a team who had lost their swimmer to a medical issue. I was actually in training for an adventure race a week later (where I was ocean swimming and MTBing) so happily agreed thinking it would be a nice training hit-out. And since I'd serviced my MTB I decided to ride it out to the start to see if all was "just so."

So after the event, where I swam quite handily, I was standing around in my cycling kit ready to ride back out, and noticed a sweet and fit-looking young thing struggling to carry her bike and step over some bunting. So I held the bunting down for her to step over.

And here comes the insulting compliment... She smiled, thanked me and said "So how was it spectating today?":confused::eek: Ok - so not sure there was even a compliment!

So, since my jersey was covering up my loudly-numbered arms, and even though I was in riding kit, I was obviously not athletic-looking enough to have been a competitor!:rolleyes:

I just laughed. She's young. Her paradigms haven't shifted yet!:D

[Grog]

Last fall, I was running in a 5K Mayor's Challenge. Our Mayor decided in April to commit to a healthier lifestyle - exercise, better eating habits, etc. - and he challenged anyone to beat him at a 5K race in October.

[temporary hijack]
This is such an AWESOME idea. I live in a city where the mayor's already in pretty good shape (and good looking, too!), but I would totally encourage other politicos to try that!
[/temporary hijack]

[PamNY]

I just laughed. She's young. Her paradigms haven't shifted yet!:D

Such a great way to put it! Hope you don't mind if I steal that sentence.

[pinkbikes]

Such a great way to put it! Hope you don't mind if I steal that sentence.

Use, abuse and enjoy it!:D

[channlluv]

When people whiz by me and call out "Good job!" I'm grateful someone so much fitter took the time to share the joy in my direction. I take it as encouraging.

I also call out things like "Good job!" or "You're doing awesome!" to people who are doing far better than I. I always figured everyone likes a little acknowledgment of a great effort. After reading some of the posts...maybe not.

Roxy

[Maxxxie]

When it comes to backhanded compliments, the best ones are from family members.

My mother and I were riding our bikes. Mum is an ex-triathlete, someone who was at one time ranked third in the country in her age group. I, on the other hand, was (at the time) the quintessential sloth: a computer nerd whose life consists of sitting in a chair. I was about 20Kg overweight at the time.

My mother, impressed by my ability to push hard without breaking a sweat said: "You have really strong legs! But I shouldn't be surprised. Really fat people always have strong legs. It comes from hauling around all that extra fat, you know."

Uhh, gee, thanks mum. :rolleyes:

Here's another one, not biking-related:
This one's from my father. I had recently attained my MCSE certification, and had been working five or six years in the IT industry. After ringing me for some technical support, and me talking him through whatever the hell it was he was needing tech support for, dad said to me, "I'm so proud of you, I never in my wildest dreams thought you'd ever become an expert in something!".

Umm, gee, thanks dad. :rolleyes:

Max

[pinkbikes]

When it comes to backhanded compliments, the best ones are from family members.

My mother and I were riding our bikes. Mum is an ex-triathlete, someone who was at one time ranked third in the country in her age group. I, on the other hand, was (at the time) the quintessential sloth: a computer nerd whose life consists of sitting in a chair. I was about 20Kg overweight at the time.

My mother, impressed by my ability to push hard without breaking a sweat said: "You have really strong legs! But I shouldn't be surprised. Really fat people always have strong legs. It comes from hauling around all that extra fat, you know."

Uhh, gee, thanks mum. :rolleyes:

Here's another one, not biking-related:
This one's from my father. I had recently attained my MCSE certification, and had been working five or six years in the IT industry. After ringing me for some technical support, and me talking him through whatever the hell it was he was needing tech support for, dad said to me, "I'm so proud of you, I never in my wildest dreams thought you'd ever become an expert in something!".

Umm, gee, thanks dad. :rolleyes:

Max

Ah Maxxxie - laughing so hard it brings tears to the eyes! Parents - if we didn't love em we'd kill em!:D

[lauraelmore1033]

oh, don't get me started on the parental insult, non compliment!!! :rolleyes: