Going out with the gals

[shootingstar]

How often do you get together with 2-or more, other good female friends? I don't mean work colleagues, whom you may not feel close at all nor want to share much personal stuff / history.

Whenever I see a bunch of women dressed up (foreign to my way of socializing with good female friends) or gaggle of women chatting it up at a restaurant, I just wonder about my own chick-women socialization patterns.

I tend to socialize with good female friends, one-to-one. I"ve been like this for past 2 decades. It's part preference, partially because each friend is different, and partially because it depends on personal schedules and place for us to meet up.

One thing for certain, I don't have meet-ups like the gals in "Sex in the City". But some women do that in real life. I see them in our area.

How about you?

[Crankin]

I don't like these types of gathering, either, ShootingStar, but you and I seem to be the odd woman out on some of these things. I occasionally go out with one friend or another for lunch or coffee, but that's about it. My free time is spent riding or doing some other type of sports stuff, sometimes alone or with a friend, but mostly with DH or us two and another couple. The older I get, the less time I spend doing the type of thing you describe. Funny, a friend of mine (who I am trying to disengage from, after 20 years) sent me an email about having a "girls night" out to see the new Sex and the City movie. The whole thing made me say to myself, are we sixteen? Now, I wouldn't mind sitting down and spending some fun time with a group of women cyclists... we'd be talking about stuff I'm interested in! And I don't mind getting dressed up, either.
I used to go out regularly with the other moms in my play group, once a month for dinner, many moons ago. This was mostly an escape for them; I was the only one who worked. It was a nice break from reality for me, when my days were filled with 2 toddlers and teaching high school kids. Of course, this is when i did my exercise at 5 AM, so it didn't interfere with my family. Now I feel like I don't need that kind of escape.

[Biciclista]

Unfortunately, I don't have any girlfriends in Seattle. ok, maybe 1...
sad, they all moved away. I have girlfriends in Oregon, Arkansas, Florida and Georgia..

[solobiker]

I am not one to do that at all. I don't have a lot of female friends and the ones I do have we prefer to go out and hike, climb, bike etc for our socialization. We don't get together too much except a mtn bike ride, backpacking and backcountry skiing. I can't even tell you the last time I dressed up to go out. Going out to eat, to the movies..etc is not my idea of a fun time.

[softthings]

i don't go out with girls hardly at all. i work with a bunch since i work in a salon, so, i get enough "girl time" there. i hang with my boyfriend mostly, and we hang with a married couple when we do go out with others. me and the lady of the couple are friends, we don't talk on the phone or anything. i cut her hair. we ride together. the town i live in now is small and i don't feel the need to get dressed up to go out. plus, i have to dress up for work, so, i am pretty "over it" by the time i get off. i would prefer a career change that i don't have to get dressed up for at all. hah! :rolleyes:

[PamNY]

I don't know what happened in "Sex and the City" so I can't comment on that.

I never have understood or participated much in gender-based socializing, and getting dressed up or not is irrelevant. How I dress would depend on my mood and where I'm going.

In general, I find groups of women oppressive. I think what is a genuine desire for sharing in other people translates into forced conformity in my mind. Neither good nor bad, just different.

As I get older, I'm more oriented toward friends who share a special interest, and toward one-on-one socializing regardless of gender.

I had an unusually large loss of friends (two died and two moved away) a few years ago and while that was hard, it also gave me a chance to look at what I really want out of friendships.

[BikeDutchess]

I get together with 2 good friends (sisters) once a month. I work from home full-time so I'm a bit of a hermit, and it's really nice to look forward to getting out of my cave at least once a month for some social contact. I never watch Sex in the City (tried one time and thought it was an annoying show) so that comparison is meaningless to me. We just go for drinks after work. No dressing up either. Unless you count getting out of my sweats as dressing up. :rolleyes:

[Crankin]

You said exactly what I feel, Pam. I find large groups of women to be oppressive, too. But, I don't want to sound sexist. A large group of women cyclists (or runners, etc) wouldn't feel the same way to me, because we would share a common interest.
I don't know what happened in Sex and the City, either. I have never seen it. But my friend assumed that since it is a "chick" film, I would be interested and i.e., wouldn't be going to see it with my husband. I never go to movies, anyway, and find that I can hardly sit and watch the 2 movies a month we get from Netflix. I just feel that I have outgrown my need to socialize that way. I enjoy going out a lot, but who I socialize with is pretty much determined by my interests and the few non-athletic friends I have had for years get me in limited doses! I definitely am not anti-social, but I am very picky in who I spend my time with.
I sometimes cringe when I am at a restaurant, looking forward to a nice dinner with my DH or friends and we are seated next to a large group of hysterically laughing (and usually drunk) women. That doesn't sound nice, I know, and I don't want to perpetuate any stereotypes, so I guess I'd better stop here.

[shootingstar]

I don't consider or would suggest to go out for drinks for a social meet-up...it would be laughable coming from me, especially when I get drunk so fast on a 1/4 glass of wine or less. :p

I have grown up with 4 sisters and 1 brother.
I have been for several decades part of a female dominant profession..it's been proven by several international surveys amongst professional assoc. I've been member of, that librarians comprise of 80% females.

So it was probably healthy for "balance" for me to work a large part of my career in male dominant organizations.

So I truly don't think I'm lacking in my womanly identity and in social group culture settings where women hang out. I like fashion, but can't afford much right now but don't want to go on clothes shopping expeditions. (I can't IMAGINE that. I didn't even go clothes shopping much with any of my sisters.) And me, plus all sisters sew, so we like clothing, fashion.

I like chatting up with individuals about stuff..with some depth. It's time better spent. In groups of people that like to continously joke and have fun, it's just not the place to do it much at all.

And how many people actually discuss their love life..to a group of other close women friends?? I couldn't. It amazes me, but some women (or men) do. And yes, Pam, Crankin, that enforces group think/group response to the terrific/horrific stories of one's life at the table.

[marni]

I much prefer a small time to talk or be together with one or two times irrespective of gender. Since I a a biker as well as a hand weaver and hand spinner, when I get up with other spinners and weavers, we are usually either talking fiber arts or spinning and or weaving. I like hanging with other riders for the same reason.

marni

[artifactos]

When I spend time with my two close female friends, it is usually one-on-one time talking about life. We don't get to catch up that often, and I lived 500 miles away for 18 months, so time with them is precious and conversation includes topics sometimes uncomfortable in public places. We are all also financially under the weather, so going out and paying for dinner + drinks when we could just drink soda and eat popcorn and chat on the balcony at home seems ridiculous.

[Bike Chick]

I have one close female friend that I go to dinner with every few months. We have been friends for almost 30 years. We have raised our kids together and we have been there for each other through many of life's tragedies. Her husband suffered an aneurysm 5 years ago and is paralyzed from the neck down. She is carrying a pretty hefty burden right now and it's a genuine effort to get a couple hours to herself in the evenings. We make the most of it and go somewhere nice and quiet to catch up.

I also have a half dozen friends that I enjoy going to quilting and sewing shows with but as far as getting dressed up and going out on the town with the girls, I never did do that and certainly don't plan to start now.

Funny you brought this subject up. I walked into the locker room at the gym this week and had to walk around a group of women getting ready for water aerobics class carrying on about their bathing suits and the fit and their hair and their nails, and on and on (I think you get the picture). It all seemed so frivilous and shallow to me. I can't explain why I felt the way I did but I told DH later that I must be getting old because I just couldn't relate to any of that. Now if they had been discussing lap times, 5k runs or bicycle components, I would've been more than interested in what they were discussing.

[Crankin]

You know, Bike Chick, your example from the locker room makes me think that I must be confusing to people (I often have that same reaction to what you experienced). I love fashion, I like having my nails done, and I like to get dressed up, too. But... I love getting sweaty and dirty, never minded peeing in the woods, and when I was a kid, I spent a large amount of time leading the boys in my neighborhood around, playing soldier :eek:. Even though I like some traditionally feminine things, I've never been a girly-girl.
I've often made the comment that when I am in large groups, in social settings, I usually end up talking to the men, unless there are women who are into riding, etc., there. I think some of this is because, even at this stage of my life, the women are *still* bragging about what their kids are doing. Last summer, I was getting a pedicure at one of those small little shops you see in strip malls, no fancy spa. In walks this woman who has kids the same age as mine. They weren't friends, really, but went to religious school and high school together. I tried to hide behind a magazine, but she came up to me and started in, asking if I knew that "*her son* was married, her daughter was getting her Master's at Julliard?" I squelched the strong urge to reply that my son was off interrogating Iraquis and the other one actually was happy with his B.A. and wasn't in grad school.

[Bike Chick]

I understand Crank. Some people don't have their own identitfy and use their children's (or grandchildren's) accomplishments for their own validation. Sad for them and hard to listen to! Gag!

I, like you and I'm sure many others on here, am not a girlie girl either. I like dressing up, getting my hair and nails done, being feminine but I enjoy cycling, running and swimming too and don't mind getting sweaty, messing up my hair with a bike helmet, going without makeup or peeing in the woods. I feel bad categorizing women but what I would consider a girlie girl is what I picture when I read Shootingstar's post. That's fine for them but I have a hard time relating to them. I didn't fit into that group in high school, don't now and never will.

I ride with the guys and last summer 2 coworkers and I would meet at the office early and get a 25 mile ride in before work 2-3 times a week. One of them told me he liked riding with me because it wasn't like riding with a chick and that I was one of the guys. I asked him what that meant and he said he couldn't put it into words but it was a compliment. FWIW, his wife is a girlie girl.

Oh and for the record, I am a Sex and The City fan. I loved the show, watch all the reruns and have seen the movie. They are strong characters and I enjoy the humor.

[Tuckervill]

I tried to hide behind a magazine, but she came up to me and started in, asking if I knew that "*her son* was married, her daughter was getting her Master's at Julliard?" I squelched the strong urge to reply that my son was off interrogating Iraquis and the other one actually was happy with his B.A. and wasn't in grad school.

I don't understand why you would take it as a competitive challenge that she tells you about the success of her children. She's just catching up with you, on the most general topics she can think of. Rather than show that you are satisfied and content with what your children are doing, you chose not to share anything. That makes me think that you think your children can't compare to hers, and that's just buying into the BS that you hate so much.

If you really don't want to participate in the Successful Child Olympics, just express your happiness for her happiness, and let it go. It's not a challenge or a threat to me when other people are successful. If they feel they've won something over on me because my kids don't "measure up" in their eyes, that's their problem, not mine.

Karen

[Tuckervill]

Back on topic, I don't have a large group of women friends, but I'd love to have one. My closest friends live in other cities, so when we get together it's usually with the whole family, or if it's just me doing the traveling, sitting in the kitchen having tea. I don't have anyone my age to ride with or hang out with nearby. Not that age is so important, but it does follow with a "stage of life" and it helps to be friends with someone you can relate to in similar circumstances. Helps to coordinate schedules, too. I just haven't found the right group of friends nearby, yet.

I have trouble with large groups of middle-aged women in skanky shirts dressed to the nines and being loud and getting drunk in public, too. It just seems so out of control, and at that age there is a whole lot more to lose when things get like they did when I was younger. :p I'll bet they wouldn't act that way in front of their kids or their mama, so why would they do it in public?

Karen

[shootingstar]

I feel bad categorizing women but what I would consider a girlie girl is what I picture when I read Shootingstar's post. That's fine for them but I have a hard time relating to them. I didn't fit into that group in high school, don't now and never will.

My original post was simply similar in sentiment..I appreciate fashion, etc. but have a hard time relating to a great deal of shallow talk. Maybe it is the type of conversation amongst people who see other often. I dunno.

But when I see close friends which isn't that often, time is valuable and precious.

Guess some people have different definitions of fun..I just go for a bike ride. That's my "silliness". :p

I did occasionally watch Sex in the City episodes. I saw the last movie on tv. I watched it partially out of curiosity for the FASHION and archetypical silliness. But would I participate in some vampy girls' night out, dressed to the nines? I'm not sure what I would wear... would I have to wear a black strapless dress to overcome my conservative image??? (I do have such a dress by the way..worn for attending a wedding with shawl... $50.00 brand-new. Yup, I'm a cheap chickie. :p ) One thing for certain, such a gathering would be too much effort for me.

Be the anti-fashion: a skort for us all. :)

[PamNY]

First, disclaimer: I truly am not anti-female. I'm just stating what happens when I socialize with groups of women.

I don't relate much to the fashion and dressing-up part of this discussion because the oppression that I feel can happen with any group of women. It wouldn't matter what the group norms were -- some woman would be trying to force them on me, and that would be the problem. It could be Manolo Blahnik or it could be Pearl Izumi -- the effect on me would be the same.

With many women, I feel like the rule is "look like me and be like me to validate me" and even more annoying, they seem to assume that I need the same validation.

I could be perfectly happy getting dressed up and going out with a group of women if they paid attention to me as a distinct individual and responded well if I did the same for them. Some of my closest friends have been girly girls -- but they know that I'm not, and that is fine.

There's also the "you're not fat" conversation. When my SO wanted to lose weight, I noticed that in discussions with other males this was simply a problem to be solved. If I said the same thing to a group of women, there would be a chorus of voices seeking to reassure me that I'm okay -- "you're not fat!" The same logic applies to other issues -- if I want to paint a wall or retile a bathroom, there's a rush to assure me that "it looks okay! don't worry about it!" I hate this kind of thing: if you are my friend, you know what's important to me and you support my efforts to get/do what I want.

[badger]

I had a pretty transient childhood where I went to 8 different schools by the time I graduated, so I am astounded when people still hang out with their friends from elementary school.

I've either moved away, or they have or circumstances changed in their lives (married, busy with kids), that I've had a huge hemorrhage of female friends over the past decade that I'm pretty much down to no good female friends that I hang out with on any regular basis. I do have a few very dear female friends but they're scattered around the world.

I also find it extremely difficult to make new friends with females my age (late 30's). They all seem to be content with their circle of friends that they don't seem to want to expand. Or just plain simply everyone's too busy living their lives that we don't "hang out" anymore.

[Catrin]

I had a pretty transient childhood where I went to 8 different schools by the time I graduated, so I am astounded when people still hang out with their friends from elementary school.

I've either moved away, or they have or circumstances changed in their lives (married, busy with kids), that I've had a huge hemorrhage of female friends over the past decade that I'm pretty much down to no good female friends that I hang out with on any regular basis. I do have a few very dear female friends but they're scattered around the world.

I also find it extremely difficult to make new friends with females my age (late 30's). They all seem to be content with their circle of friends that they don't seem to want to expand. Or just plain simply everyone's too busy living their lives that we don't "hang out" anymore.

Yep - I am the only "single" woman that I know at church, work, or elsewhere. Everyone is busy with their lives, and I've gotten used to doing things solo. I am starting to run across more people who like riding though, so am hoping to at least find some riding buddies.

It is also true that in larger gatherings I find myself talking with the men more than the women because the women seem to focus in their children, etc. Of course they are relating to those things they have in common - and I've no children and to make it worse, I have one of those techie jobs that makes peoples eyes glaze over when I try to explain what I do for a living :p I do have good friends, but they are scattered around the country.

We were quite mobile when I was growing up as well, and it is amazing to me that there are those who are still in contact/hang out with people they grew up with. It sounds very nice, amazing, but nice to be able to hang out with people who have known you through all of the changes of life.

[Crankin]

Tuckervill, I am not buying into that "your kid is better than mine," thing, although I know exactly what you speak of. As far as catching up, this is a woman I have no relationship with, except our kids went to Hebrew School together. My kids are fine, in my book... in fact they are pretty emotionally sane and as we always say "no one's in jail." I guess I would have liked it more if she had asked me what I was doing! You know, went back to school, switching careers, etc. She didn't even ask me if I was still teaching, although I did ask her about her job.
I live in an extremely competitive area in terms of academics and this stuff is commonplace. Mostly I shrug it off, but it gets old. It's more the "living through the kids" thing, which irks me. I didn't do it when my kids were little and I certainly don't do it now. I love them and we have a great relationship, but I don't get my identity from them.

[shootingstar]

I had a pretty transient childhood where I went to 8 different schools by the time I graduated, so I am astounded when people still hang out with their friends from elementary school.

I've either moved away, or they have or circumstances changed in their lives (married, busy with kids), that I've had a huge hemorrhage of female friends over the past decade that I'm pretty much down to no good female friends that I hang out with on any regular basis. I do have a few very dear female friends but they're scattered around the world.

I also find it extremely difficult to make new friends with females my age (late 30's). They all seem to be content with their circle of friends that they don't seem to want to expand. Or just plain simply everyone's too busy living their lives that we don't "hang out" anymore.

I only have 1 friend from teenagehood amongst the closest other friends who have known me since my 20's.

Perhaps the older one gets, the more complex personal life experiences become that it's harder to articulate certain parts of core life experience/major life changes to a stranger who may not share the same experience at all. So establishing connection with other person at mid-life can take time or remains warm, but somewhat limited.

Yes, sure it's easier with women cyclists regardless of their cycling skill.

[PamNY]

Perhaps the older one gets, the more complex personal life experiences become that it's harder to articulate certain parts of core life experience/major life changes to a stranger who may not share the same experience at all. So establishing connection with other person at mid-life can take time or remains warm, but somewhat limited.

I think that is true. Making new friends at an older age is just different. There is so much to explain/understand. I think that is one reason friends with a shared special interest are appealing to me more now.

[salsabike]

I am still friendly with a bunch of the women I was friendly with in high school (and also some of the men). They are as smart and funny and interesting as they were then. They live mostly still on the East Coast, but we talk via email, FB, phone, and I go back there once or twice a year, and you bet we girls get together and have a blast.

I have some very good female friends here from work as well. Three or four of us meet once a month or so for coffee or dinner.

I have a half dozen very good friends, women, from the fiber art part of my life. We get together too.

I'm friendly with some women cyclists and triathletes. Ditto.

I like smart, strong, funny, sane women and I like to get together with them, singly or in groups. I like a bunch of similar-description guys too, although I don't get together with them as regularly.

[Crankin]

I have no friends left from my childhood, as I also moved away in HS. I did reconnect with one, when she saw my mom's obit in the paper, 15 years ago. She lives about 15 miles from me, but after getting together a few times, we have only spoken infrequently. When we reconnected, she had a 5 year old and I had teenagers. It's a shame, though.
I still am in contact with one close friend in AZ, and through her, I catch up on others. If I go back to visit, though, I fall right in with my old gang. However, I suspect if I lived there, I wouldn't see them so frequently, as they are not into sports and are pretty sedentary. Right now, I have 3 good female friends; 2 I have known for like 20 years, since I moved back here. One I can barely stand to be around... it's too long of a story to go into here, but I am easing out of seeing her. There are others I see occasionally, usually friends related to work, etc.
I guess that I am weird,in that I would rather spend my time with DH.

[Becky]

Not weird, Crankin. You sound just like me.

[snowroo]

Karen

Thanks for that. I'm sometimes like a bull in a china shop in conversations. I get excited and happy over little things really quickly. So I love to share things that make me happy. Which might include my kids or my dh's successes. Or my own. When I share, I want to share the "happy". I'm not comparing or making any comment on the other person. Read it at face value.

I find it hard to be sensitive that another person is not in a place to be able to join in my happy. Means I have to squish my happy. This makes me anxious that I for some reason have different social rules and for some reason it's not ok to be rejoicing in lifes little joys. I just want to share the feeling.

For this reason, I tend to stick with a few close friends. I don't "get" the social rules of larger groups of women.

Very gently, crankin, your interogation comment might be difficult to hear from our community members who are connected to the military.

[Selkie]

Not weird, Crankin. You sound just like me.

Same here. I'm like both PamNY and Crankin (but unlike Crankin, I am no girlygirl --- I love that she led the boys around when she was a kid!!!). I'm an introvert, enjoy my own company, and would rather spend what free time I have w/my husband. I have a couple of female close friends at work, but we don't socialize outside of the office. Maybe when I retire, I'll expand my social horizons, but for now, I'm more than content.

I am anti-Drama. I'm not in competition with anyone but myself in that I'm trying to be a kinder, more tolerant person. I simply don't want others' drama/negativity in my life, and I haven't the patience for pettiness (probably because I've been burned by "good" friends in the past?). Regardless, I've found that social gatherings of more than two females inevitably evolves in snarkiness.

[Crankin]

Woa, Mickchick, I might have girly-girl things I like, but no one would categorize me as one...
Just setting the record straight.
How come I never meet anyone like the people on TE in real life???

[sundial]

I would enjoy meeting TE'ers on a ride. We at least have one thing in common. :)

[PamNY]

How come I never meet anyone like the people on TE in real life???

I have wondered the same thing.

[Selkie]

Woa, Mickchick, I might have girly-girl things I like, but no one would categorize me as one...
Just setting the record straight.
How come I never meet anyone like the people on TE in real life???

Sorry about that Crankin!! ;) :D:D:D

I have to admit, I don't understand manicures, pedicures, and facials---it's hard enough for me to sit through a hair color/cut appt every six weeks. LOL!! You know, my father played a bigger role in my upbringing (mom was chronically ill, and never taught me and my sister "girl" stuff). That probably is a reason I never really got into makeup, self-pampering, etc.

[Crankin]

It's OK, Mickchick, I won't hold it against you.
Actually, I have met and ridden with several TE people, but not for a couple of years. I usually have coffee with SheFly a couple of times a year and I used to ride with Denise G.a bit, but she is off doing her photography when she rides now and is also hiking a lot. For about 3 years I lead a Labor day TE ride, and that was fun.

[limewave]

I've just been skimming this thread and I find it interesting. I was thinking about this on my drive to work this AM.

I used to have a fun group of women friends and we'd get together all the time--not drinking at the bar--hanging out at the coffee shop, playing games, hiking, etc. This was when I was single. I loved it.

Then I met DH. I had a short courtship/engagement and a small wedding with immediate family only--we married after just 3.5 months. I had major surgery a week after we were married and I was house-bound for 3-4 months. Suddenly, all my friends disappeared. It was horrible and I didn't understand it. They wouldn't return my calls or my emails . . . it was very lonely. Sadly, I think that what I was going through was so traumatic that they couldn't relate and didn't know how to be a friend to me. All I wanted was a friend :(

Ever since then, I've had this longing for female friendships like I used to have, but I can't seem to find it. Most women I meet now already have their good friends, they don't seem to want to make room for another.

I have two good friends that live out of state. We try and get together once or twice a year. We often email each other but our schedules are such that we don't get to talk on the phone.

I have friends that I bike with. Friends that I run with. Friends that I play volleyball with. Friends that I work with. That's as deep as it gets.

I'm finally accepting that I probably won't have that "group" of friends again. But as DH likes to remind me, they weren't as great of friends as I thought they were. Otherwise they would have stuck with me through the hard times.

[MomOnBike]

I was a part of a quartet of women who would get out once a month for lunch - though it eventually turned into dinner - and talk about whatever. No husbands or kids allowed at the gatherings, though we DID talk about them.

As for the dressing up part, um, we put on clean clothes. This counted as dressing up in that part of the country.

Of the things I miss about moving from that area to the Big City is that bunch of women and our lunch group. When I went back last summer for a visit we had lunch and picked up right where we left off. Fifteen years on where I am now, I have yet to find a social friend here. I evidently don't have the skills to start a friendship.

I'd love to get together with a smallish group of women and discuss everything from the way our (now grown) kids make us crazy to the gender of God again. *sigh*

(What's a Sex in the City?)