Moms, childhood issues, and certified letters

[bmccasland]

For some reason, known only to Mummy Dearest, has decided to rehash issues from my childhood.... Mom was clinically depressed most of my life, and as most of us know, pharmaceuticals 40 years ago aren't what they are now.

Last fall she sent something, and I responded, in writing. She sent another letter, which I didn't answer after talking things over with my litter sister. Shredded the letter. Mom has never asked me anything directly.

So earlier this week, I get a note in my mailbox about a certified letter from my mother. I have to go to the Post Office to retrieve it, I can't sign the note and have my mailman deliver it the next day. Kind of tough when one works full time. So today I was talking to my Mom, and she said she's sent me a couple of letters that I haven't answered, and she wants answers. Since I've only received one, I asked if that's what's the certified letter is about - that she went to a lot of trouble and expense to send a letter that is difficult for me to retrieve. She gets coy, and says I'll just have to get it to find out.

What if I don't want to play her game? I'm considering three options....
1. Do nothing, wait out the 15 days, and the certified letter will be sent back.
2. Call her and tell her that I don't want to play the silly mail game, and if she has a direct question, why can't she just ask it? (she doesn't do well with direct confrontation at all)
3. Collect the letter, and send it to her therapist - but I'll need my sister to supply the name.

So great wisdom of TE what do you think??? :confused:

How does one deal with someone who was unhappy most of your life? I'd love to tell her "not now I don't have time, and get out of my hair" but I highly doubt she'll get the reference.

[KnottedYet]

Been somewhere similar, faced something similar, wish I could have gotten a t-shirt out of the deal...

It boiled down to "play her game or live my life" for me.

If she needs to be coy and send certified letters to someone she speaks to on the phone to fully engage in her world, and if you want to engage with her within her world, then take time off work and go get the letter.

If you'd rather live in your world and make her engage with you in it, then don't. You already talk on the phone, so it's not like you are cutting off communication.

Whose mental health do you want to nourish? If hers is a special project for you, devote yourself to it. If your health is your project, don't work within a convoluted mindset with someone whose goals may be very different than your own.

(And don't forget the legal aspect. If there is some legal issue waiting in that letter, it could get ugly.)

Good luck. Remember what they say in the airplane safety demo: put your own oxygen mask on first, then assist those around you. You are useless at helping anyone if you yourself are already suffocating.

It's harsh, but sometimes we are forced to make these choices.

[Cataboo]

I'm sorry about your mother :(

How do I deal with someone who has been unhappy for most of my life? There are people that I've cut out of my life that are that way - I feel vaguely guilty about it, but I really don't have the emotional energy to deal with people that cause their own drama and/or misery when I have other family members that do have serious life-threatening medical problems that I have to help with. But, it is your mother and if you're not comfortable with just cutting her out of your life... I'd just say do your best not to get dragged into her drama or games (I realize that depression is a serious medical problem, so I really don't mean to minimize it by calling it drama)


If you really can't get off work easily to go get the letter, just tell your mother that, and tell her to mail you the letter non-certified when she gets it back after the 15 day period and you'll call her to talk it over with her. And you can send a copy to her therapist if you think it's warranted when you read it. That way you're not giving into her game, but are still at least being open to whatever dialog she's looking for.

[shootingstar]

See if you can get letter. If can't she can resend it.

Meanwhile your phone line should be open, unless she starts phoning at inconvenient hrs.

This sounds like a situation that might take several months, if not several years to change communication patterns. Hold your line firmly but find ways to express your love (because she's your mother. That's just reality.) that she can recognize immediately and is acceptable to both of you, without burning yourself out.

[lph]

hm. It sort of depends what she's asking. If she has a complicated, maybe upsetting to her, situation to explain, and then a question to ask that requires some thought to answer, I can understand her wanting to do it by letter. Not to be coy or manipulative, but just because some things are easier to do in writing. I find it especially hard to discuss complex emotions on the phone, because I feel that I'm only catching a fraction of what the person is trying to express when I can't see them.

On the other hand, she has to accept that by sending stuff certified (what's up with that, anyway?) in the mail she has to wait until you have the time and inclination to do something about it. She can't expect you to hop to it just because this is important to her right now.

I have a family full of people like this...

[redrhodie]

(((B))) I don't have anything to add, but I know it's hard dealing with a depressed person. Take care of yourself, and do what's best for you.

[MartianDestiny]

Knotted and Catriona said it well.

Put your well-being first then decide how much you want to deal with/help her with hers and on what terms. Much of how you respond to this depends on your own personal circumstances and relationship.

If it were *me* and my mother sent me certified mail, I'd talk to a lawyer about the implications of accepting it vs. leaving it there. I'd WANT to ignore it, potential legal issues aside. Doesn't sound like your relationship is as bad off as my is however.

Shootingstar, sorry to bust your bubble, but love is not "just reality". My mother and I have not spoken in something like 7 years, she's been 90% or more out of my life since I was 12. I'm almost certain there is some undiagnosed mental issues playing into this on her part, but she's never sought help, so I can't work within those parameters. I don't love her; I don't even know her. My only emotional attachments to her are the scars and issues she left me with. My dog, my father, my stepmother sure, I love them, but not someone that I haven't seen or heard from in 7+ years and who did a darn good job of screwing up my life and emotional well being before then.

It's not a given, and a lot of what will determine bmc's decision is how far down that road of un-attachment she is and whether or not she wants to be there.

I tried for quite a few years before realizing that I could continue trying to love my mother despite everything or be a stable, sane person and that those two objectives were unfortunately mutually exclusive. Most of those years of trying were more out of feelings of guilt and inadequacy that I didn't love my mother than out of love in the end; though I didn't see that at the time.

[OakLeaf]

((((((Beth)))))) This all hits a little too close to home for me to have anything useful to offer you.

But let me offer this: People whose issues with their parents are minimal, won't have anything useful from their own experience to offer you. People whose issues with their parents are significant, will have too much of an overlay from their own experience to have anything useful to offer you. :o

My sympathy and support go out to you. But on a practical level, unfortunately, I think you need to either find the answer in your own heart or talk to a professional. :(

[shootingstar]

Shootingstar, sorry to bust your bubble, but love is not "just reality". My mother and I have not spoken in something like 7 years, she's been 90% or more out of my life since I was 12. I'm almost certain there is some undiagnosed mental issues playing into this on her part, but she's never sought help, so I can't work within those parameters. I don't love her; I don't even know her. My only emotional attachments to her are the scars and issues she left me with. My dog, my father, my stepmother sure, I love them, but not someone that I haven't seen or heard from in 7+ years and who did a darn good job of screwing up my life and emotional well being before then.

It's not a given, and a lot of what will determine bmc's decision is how far down that road of un-attachment she is and whether or not she wants to be there.

I tried for quite a few years before realizing that I could continue trying to love my mother despite everything or be a stable, sane person and that those two objectives were unfortunately mutually exclusive. Most of those years of trying were more out of feelings of guilt and inadequacy that I didn't love my mother than out of love in the end; though I didn't see that at the time.

Sorry to hear this Martiandestiny.

We literally have a minimal language base with our mother..meaning we have lost so much Chinese fluency that it can be difficult to communicate complicated issues and feelings ...by phone or in person. However it has taken several years to figure out what expressions of love works between her and each of us.

She phoned me a few weeks ago to wish me happy birthday. She said this in English to me..because we never learned what the Chinese version. I thanked her but said in such a way..was to thank her..for bringing me into this world. I really meant what I felt and said. And I really think she did phone me to wish me well.

So very simple words can have big, deep meanings in some family conversations.

[Selkie]

B - It sounds like your mom has had a long term, serious mental health issue (my mom suffered w/one her entire adulthood so I understand the road you've been down and what you're facing now...). This isn't a communication issue and you have absolutely no obligation to accept the letter, let alone read it. I agree with Knott and Cat---you have to do what's right for you first and foremost. Your well being is the most important thing. Trust your instincts about this.

[Flybye]

Here might be a possibility.

1. Tell her that you aren't going to play the games. You will let the letter be returned to her. If she would like to mail it back to you regular mail, then you will open it. You will open it only under the following condition: that she ASK you directly the question that is in the letter before you open it. Then you will be allowed a full week to consider your answer. If the question in the letter is different than the question she gives you over the phone, then you will have the option of doing ______ . (Whatever you feel necessary). (Might be sending the letter to her therapist).
2. You will not accept letters from her in the future. They will be unopened whether sent registered mail or regular mail.

As for sending the letters to her therapist, there is the possibility that she worked with her therapist to write the letters.

Sorry :(

[TrekTheKaty]

I also have a difficult family dynamic. My stepmother (who raised me) is "nuts." Both myself, my half-sister and her three other children have "divorced" her. We don't answer phone calls or letters. It's for my own mental health. She is mentally abusive. She has spent her whole life making everyone around her miserable, so I no longer care about her feelings. It's the best thing. It took my half-sister almost 50 years to cut her out. I did it at 25 and never looked back. It's not the only family member I have turned my back on, but I believe in honesty and don't have time for the drama and games. There is guilt. Only you can decide when enough is enough.

And I only send certified letters when I want legal proof someone received my correspondence, so I have to ask "What the f@#$?" (sorry).

[Biciclista]

yeah, don't stress about that letter. If she wants you to read it; let her send it to you regular mail. Life is much too short. What Cat and Knot said.
I have always had a difficult relationship with my mother as well. Now her husband is dying and it's like dancing on a melting dance floor while holding little glasses of champagne in one hand. It's really really tough. But you do have to take care of YOU first.
To thine own self be true. What's the point of missing work to get a letter that's just going to make you feel worse?

[Tuckervill]

I have boundary issues with my mother. As in, I have to set them or she manipulates me and punishes me for having a normal loving relationship with my father (they've been divorced for 27 years!).

When we have a conflict, I have to constantly implore her to stay on topic, instead of talking about how we're talking about the topic. Over the years I've learned to boil it down to the "issue" at hand, and cut off the conversation when the boundary is crossed. She doesn't learn very fast. :p I have to reset the boundary over and over. I try to do it politely, but sometimes I have to hang up on her or leave her house. I try not to leave in a huff, and tell her I love her before I go.

If my mother sent me letters explaining one of "our issues" to me, along with all the meta-discussion and accusations, I would try really hard to see through it to what the issue is. I'd do this because I love my mother, even though our relationship is difficult, and I want to go to my grave with a clear conscience. I would accept a certified letter, because if there was something she really wanted to tell me and she couldn't do it in person for whatever reason, I'd want to know what it is. If it was just a general rant about the same old stuff, I wouldn't get the next one. ;) To be fair, I'd tell her face-to-face that I wouldn't be getting the next one.

Looks like you're on letter #3 that you have chosen not to engage her with, so it would be nice of you to tell her that you're not going to get the letter, and tell her what she could do to get her message across. I don't think it's fair that you didn't acknowledge the second letter and just shredded it. Even if the response is "Mom, I have no response to that."

It's stories like this that I hope are keeping me from being a crazy mom, too. Even though I too have had serious depression, I hope my kids never feel the need to cut me off.

Karen

[salsabike]

But let me offer this: People whose issues with their parents are minimal, won't have anything useful from their own experience to offer you. People whose issues with their parents are significant, will have too much of an overlay from their own experience to have anything useful to offer you. :o

My sympathy and support go out to you. But on a practical level, unfortunately, I think you need to either find the answer in your own heart or talk to a professional. :(

I think these are words of wisdom.

[Biciclista]

I think these are words of wisdom.

yeah, really.

[bacarver]

This forum helps us feel less alone.

My mother has depressive personality disorder. She was always dreary, negative, sarcastic, and critical when I was growing up. My parents parted when I was 6. She still carries her black cloud with her everywhere. There is no humor in her world.

Those with personality disorders tend to play games, and people get sucked in to the chaos.

I would encourage you to save all "evidence" rather than avoiding, throwing away, or discarding. This is up to you. I feel that there will be a time when I need to prove to some people that I wasn't the problem.

My mother couldn't handle it when I found the man I planned to marry
(1989). She started a campaign to destroy me and it got ugly and stayed that way for 3 years. I was a shell of a human by that point and had to make a hard decision to walk away from her. She recruited my brother to take her side and he rejected me also. I have struggled for almost 20 years to live with this. It has gotten easier as I've gotten older. My perspective is healthier. My mom and brother should not have the power to take my time on this earth away from me.

I have tried to write to my mother and brother. She refused to respond. My brother set a trap for me and hurt me deeply when I realized he was just getting information to pass on to her.

The years of blaming myself have been hard. Families are supposed to be loving and supportive. My father is a schizophrenic/alcoholic. I got a crappy deal all around.

There are others out there who have similar situations. I intend to survive this and to be free of the self-blame that steals my joy. I have a good husband and my life is what I make it.

I'm sorry you are going through this. It's not the way a mother-daughter relationship should be.

Barb

[bmccasland]

Thanks everyone... I'm still mulling things over. For the next two days it's a moot point, as monday is a federal holiday, and tuesday is a local holiday - MARDI GRAS! This city is in full party mode, no mail delivery or open post offices until wednesday.

But I think that if she can't ask me directly, then I'm not going to play the game. She always was a passive-agressive one. She's the one I've learned it from, and over the years, I've learned to be more direct, less fustration in the long run.

sigh

[malkin]

But let me offer this: People whose issues with their parents are minimal, won't have anything useful from their own experience to offer you. People whose issues with their parents are significant, will have too much of an overlay from their own experience to have anything useful to offer you. :o
(

I'm in the second group, so all I can do is send is my best wishes to you.

[TrekTheKaty]

Yes, that is the important message. We want you to know you are not alone. And take care of #1 (yourself) first. As women, we tend to not do that. I send happy thoughts your way for Mardi Gras :D

[sgtiger]

((((((Beth))))))

I want to add my support. And whatever you choose to do I hope you honor yourself first.

I too have a complicated relationship with my mother, so I can understand the uncertainty and hesitation of engaging in a situation that may bring up unpleasant and painful memories. Personally I deal better with people who I can clearly see are trying to be a better person now than someone who constantly brings up the past to apologize or explain it away. For me, somehow, it feels like they are trying to trivialize the helplessness and hurt I experienced as a child, especially if their actions have not truly changed.

Soo

[MartianDestiny]

Withm,

I have to voice some respectful disagreement with your post. Words and sentiments like these spoken to me in person (as I did not discuss anything on the internet when all of this was occurring to me) really added a lot of pain and heartache to what was already a very gutwrenching, life altering, and exceptionally painful drawn out decision process. And, yes, added to bouts of depression and even occasional suicidal thoughts that I was luckily able to (in time, and with the help of some very close friends) overcome (and not act on). Similar sentiments made me keep working at an emotionally abusive, manipulative relationship longer than I probably would have otherwise (after all she was/is "my mother" and I couldn't possibly just erase her from my life without being a horrible, rotten, ungrateful child). (and let me reiterate that this was a very painful process for me that took YEARS of consideration, attempts at a relationship (on any level), realization that I was indeed NOT a horrible person, etc. none of which was ever taken lightly; I most certainly didn't get angry with her in one conversation and walk off in a huff never to speak with her again.)

Yes, parents will always be our parents, and we can't change that "like it or not". That doesn't mean one is obligated to bend to their every whim, need, objection to one's life, or other quark; especially not at the expense of their own mental (and sometimes unfortunately physical) health. More obligated to put forth an effort than if they were some random person you met once, of course. I don't think anyone takes damaging, ending, or ignoring a relationship with their parent(s) lightly or really needs to be reminded that the person is indeed their parent and thus should be of more importance than a street acquaintance.

The implications demonize the victim/child, as if they clearly are not trying hard enough to maintain the relationship. I felt this guilt for a long time. I would have felt guilty/horrible on some level anyway, but conversations with outsiders (whom I would consider my friends as I didn't go telling my woes to people I hardly knew) certainly made things worse and elongated the learning to live with the reality of the situation even though they had no idea or no way to comprehend the situation, really.

Being "used to" something does not make it healthy for you. "Just words" can often be exceptionally hurtful and emotionally abusive. No one truly becomes "immune" to such things.

Sometimes (not always, of course) people do need to just leave situations behind them when it becomes evident that things will not change. Sometimes "running away" is more like being driven away, etc. Sometimes completely leaving a situation and/or person is the only way to get them/it to STOP controlling your life.

Do I sometimes think about the situation with a twinge of sadness, yes, especially when I hear similar stories or around mother's day. Do I regret my decision; absolutely not. I feel like I made every reasonable effort that could have been made and in the end I did what I had to do to preserve my sanity. Without a doubt I am a happier more healthy person today than I would have been otherwise. And I'm living a life I want to, rather than being controlled and manipulated by someone else.

Clearly not every situation will parallel mine (probably no situation will, some being much worse, some much less severe, and some just different) and many relationships probably can (and should) be saved in some form or another. But to speak in absolutes, to assert that a relationship must/should be maintained, that one should continue to subject them-self to situations that are hurtful to them (even if that situation is words on a page), and to imply that one should be "used to" or "immune" to emotionally abusive and manipulative behavior (intentional or stemming from a documented disorder) simply because the other person is a parent is nothing more than naiveté and, well intentioned as it may be (because I'm sure everything you wrote was very much well intentioned), can add to emotional turmoil, guilt, and depression in people going through these situations.

I'm certainly not advocating that Bmc break all ties with her mom, or even assuming that her relationship with her mom is emotionally abusive (only that it seems evident that the relationship is very hard on her emotionally for whatever reason). But really only Bmc is in a position to understand her relationship, what the issues are, what the intentions are (which ended up being a very big deciding factor for me, personally), and what is the best compromise for her (because most of the time it's a lose-lose situation). Just because one party is a parent doesn't make anything any more cut and dry. In the end we can only offer her a virtual shoulder to lean on. Advice, well, I think Oakleaf said it best. And yes, professional counseling, if feasible, is definitely a path to consider (either on a longer term basis or just a few sessions).

And please, withm, let me reiterate that I in no way believe that you intended anything other than to be helpful, as my friends intended as well. And maybe, being emotionally completely on the other side of this, I'm seeing something more and this will be more helpful than hurtful to Bmc. I hope so as I hope everyone can struggle through and in the end come out with more ideal results than I did. Sure did tug at some painful memories for me though.

Anyway, this has been exceptionally long winded, and I apologize. Just felt the need to voice what the view from "the other side of the street" *can* be.

[colby]

I know we all come from different situations, but I see elements of my own life in these, and I appreciate hearing how other people cope. I love this forum. :)

[Cataboo]

I'd also disagree that running away is somehow letting someone continue to control your life. And that somehow if you're used to someone treating you like ****, you become used to it and immune and that it's okay to be treated like ****. By that logic, all women who are getting beaten by their husbands should just stay in their marriages.

Yes, families are difficult... and as much as possible, people should try to work everything out and do what they can. But the reality is, that sometimes people just suck and just because they're related to you by an accident of birth and genetics and you love them, doesn't mean that you have to keep them in your life or that it's healthy to do so. The fact that someone is related to you doesn't mean they get a pass on their behavior. It does mean you forgive them for more and give them more chances, but at some point, enough is enough.

I could go into details, but hey, I use my real name on the internet :)

[Selkie]

I wouldn't characterize it as "running away." I think it's more "running to" something more positive and healthy.

The great thing is that we are adults and have choices. That includes the choice to do the right thing for oneself.

[Crankin]

I agree with Martian Destiny. Just because someone is your mother (insert any family member here), doesn't mean you are beholden to endure whatever **** they give you.
As a disclaimer, I will say that my relationship with my parents was good. My mom died almost 15 years ago. I miss her, but, life goes on. I talk to my dad, who lives in CA, but it's not a super close relationship. That's nothing new.
But, I do have some experience with "divorcing" a relative. I "divorced" my aunt (my mom's sister). She always has been the drama queen in my family, with some definite underlying mental health issues. When her DH died at age 52, she pretty much declared her life was over, and took it as a signal to run everyone else's life. This occurred right at the time I moved back here. I was able to be firm with boundaries, and still be with my family for holidays, etc. She was too busy trying to run her own kid's lives. When my mom got sick, she thought I was cruel and heartless for not leaving my own family and going to CA indefinitely. My mom specifically did not want me to do that! My aunt interfered with my mom's medical situation, drove my dad and brother crazy, and generally acted crazy when we ignored her.
Over the years, I tried with her, but she only wanted to tell me what to do. When one cousin became super religious and gave my DH crap about not wearing a yarmulke on Passover and I no longer could take the other cousin, who has always been a xenophobic, gun touting, right winger, I stopped calling. It's been a year and a half, and it is better. I feel badly that my kids have lost contact with the few relatives they have, but they witnessed her craziness growing up, so it's in context. Life is too short.

[Catrin]

My mother has long-term, basically untreated, mental health issues as well. This is so hard to deal with, and I think it is difficult for others who do not have that family dynamic to really understand what this means.

I and my sisters have taken decades to learn how to deal with this in a way that does not harm us, yet allows us to find some way to not cut her out of our lives entirely (though we did for some time). We finally came to understand that she raised us the best way that she could, she just didn't have much to work with and that was just the way it was. It took close to 20 years of total separation for me to come to truly understand that - we had a very rough family life...

Understanding that did help the three of us to come up with our own way to remain in contact with her without, however, participating in the dramatic world that she lives in. It does her no good to play her games, and it certainly isn't good for us. She and I will never have a "traditional" mother/daughter relationship - but I have found ways to stay in touch with her that doesn't fire up the old drama.

You will have to make your decision on how to deal with this - though I do like the approach others have suggested about not accepting the letter and telling her that she just needs to tell you what is going on. The whole certified letter approach is adversarial. For your own sake you need to maintain strong boundaries, and it sounds like she doesn't expect you to have any.

Please keep us posted as you can, you are not alone in this.

[kiwibug]

I am so surprised to see how many people grew up with mothers suffering from mental health illnesses.

I felt really really alone growing up. Even within my family, my mom's bipolar disorder was never talked about, and the horrible periods where she went off her meds were major secrets we never discussed. Luckily psychiatric medicine has done a lot for my mother, she's doing really well and our relationship is loving.

I don't know what would have happened if we hadn't got the illness under control. I maintain that unless you have lived with and loved someone with mental illness, you can't possibly understand. Without experiencing it you can't say that you would never run away, or that one shouldn't.

[maillotpois]

I am so surprised to see how many people grew up with mothers suffering from mental health illnesses.

Me, too. I have talked to one other person, a friend who I was surprised to learn had a mother with a lot of similar issues to mine. But it's nice to know I'm not the only one with a mother with issues. (and not just "my mom is a PITA" issues, which I think everyone has from time to time.)

Good luck bmc - you're not alone and ultimately you'll know what the right thing is for you to do.

[arielmoon]

When I was in college my parents got divorced. It was pretty messy and my mom decided I had sided with my dad when he came to me to tell me he wanted leave my mother and I told him I wanted him to be happy. This after hearing how unhappy my mother was since I was about 8. Anywho, my mother was a debutante and she insisted I do it too even though I said I didnt want to for years. It went against things I believed in and I refused to be all cutsie with girls that wouldnt talk to me in high school.

I got a long certified letter telling me what an ungraceful child I was. She listed all the things she did for me- driving me to swim practice and soccer and basketball and so on. The gist of this was that she did all this for me not because she loved me but because she wanted something in return. Well, I didnt speak to her for 5 years after that. Then I decided that life was too short and I just forgave her in my heart. She never apologized but one day she sent me a tape of some uplifting something or other and admitted she made mistakes raising us kids. (My older brother had gotten a similar certified letter and he didnt speak to her for 6 years).

My mother wrecked me mentally as a child to the point that I didnt trust her to tell what was going on in my life. I learned to shut her out when I would hear her telling all her friends what I had confided in her. Going away to boarding school was a blessing for me and I could finally breath. At different times I have been tempted to tell her how hellish she made my childhood but I honestly cant see what good it would do. She did the best she could at the time.

These days she doesnt even attempt to tell me what to do or be manipulative although she tries it on my siblings.

My advice is not to play the game but also be compassionate and forgiving. For whatever reason she is going back to the past to rehash. I think you should let look to the future!

[Zen]

And here I thought my family put the funk in dysfunctional...what a lot we are here. One thing for sure, there's always a sympathetic ear here and, more often than not, some good advice.

[shootingstar]

Quite a discussion leading up to ....Mother's Day.

[Bike Chick]

And here I thought my family put the funk in dysfunctional...what a lot we are here. One thing for sure, there's always a sympathetic ear here and, more often than not, some good advice.

Zen, you always make me laugh:D Ditto!

[tulip]

Shootingstar--I don't know when Canadian Mother's Day is, but the US version isn't until May, so some of us have some time to muster whatever we need to in order to buy a card and let Hallmark do the talking. My mother is a delight, now...but that was not always the case. All I can say is, thank goodness for lithium.

And yes, I'm struggling with all sorts of issues stemming from my childhood. But I won't go into that here. I'm making great strides in living in the present and looking towards the future. I've looked back enough to realize that I can't change what did or did not happen in the past, but I can change my present actions. Usually that works.

* * *
From time to time, I get looks of judgmental pity (often mixed with a hint of envy, I might add) when people find out I don't have kids. Really, it's no wonder!

* * *

All my best, Beth (and whoever else needs a supportive hug).

[TrekTheKaty]

In the meantime it might help to examine carefully why this upsets you so. You know what to expect from your mother. Clearly she has not changed after what 30-40-50 years? By now you ought to be used to, if not immune, to her behavioral quirks an and just chalk it up to "my crazy mother."


I would have to respectfully disagree with this statement. In my personal situation, I am sure my stepmother could could dissolve the self esteem it took me 20 years to reestablish with a glance. I don't give her the opportunity.

I admire shootingstar for reaching out for support from her cyberfriends. If she was friend from my hometown, I would meet her for coffee, a hug and just to listen. She needs our support. I hope our suggestions haven't confused her even more, but what are sisters for?

[TrekTheKaty]

And here I thought my family put the funk in dysfunctional...what a lot we are here.

Amen, Zen. In college, I had a group of friends that realized we all had dysfunctional families except one person. We thought HE should be on Oprah, since he insisted that his childhood was "Leave it to Beaverish!"

I posed the question to my sister a few years ago: "Maybe we are the crazy ones and every one else is normal?" I was serious. She cackled like a wild woman and poured me another glass of wine :)

Just a thought ;) (are these walls rubber?)

[shootingstar]

I would have to respectfully disagree with this statement. In my personal situation, I am sure my stepmother could could dissolve the self esteem it took me 20 years to reestablish with a glance. I don't give her the opportunity.

I admire shootingstar for reaching out for support from her cyberfriends. If she was friend from my hometown, I would meet her for coffee, a hug and just to listen. She needs our support. I hope our suggestions haven't confused her even more, but what are sisters for?

Perhaps you meant bccmsland who originally asked for people's opinions/ideas? Not that myself and 5 siblings have problem with a mother who is quite controlling, on top of the linguistic gap..I just haven't bothered to get into details 'cause I really don't expect many people here to experience high family conflict due to linguistic gaps, on top of major personality weakness in a parent.

But it's ok. We'll survive..though we're worried now with my father having cancer..he the language intepreter, family mediator..etc. Certain things are better, other things not and never will be.
I'm not a mother and I question myself if i could have been a good mother. Honest.

[owlice]

Add me to the list; I suspect my mother has an undiagnosed personality disorder. I had cut her out of my life. Now I'm her guardian (the "guardian of the person," as the legal wording goes); she was declared incompetent last year. I do this out of a sense of duty, not love. If I weren't her guardian, she'd have been turned over to the state, because my brother, who has been dealing with her for years, refused to be named guardian. Yes, I had a choice; I could have let the state take responsibility for her.

Anyway...

BMC, you get to decide how you want to deal with your mother, what the boundaries are. You cannot change her, but you can change how you respond to her. (I'm sure you know that already; just reminding you!) If you don't like the idea of accepting a certified letter, don't accept it.

I like the idea outlined by another re: not retrieving the letter, asking your mother to ask you the question directly before you open the remailed (by regular mail) letter, and letting her know you will answer within [name your time period here] IF you are actually open to answering her questions. If you are not, I am sure you have your reasons for not wanting to do so, so let her know that... once. That's the boundary. When she crosses it, shut down the conversation immediately. Acknowledge any future letters you receive when you talk with her ("Got your letter, Mom, but knew I'd be talking to you, so didn't open it; you know how I feel about the letters. How about those Red Sox?"), but do NOT talk further about the letters other than to acknowledge receipt and restate the boundary.

I also like the idea of examining why the letters upset you, not because I think you owe your mother that, but rather, because you owe yourself that.

[owlice]

In college, I had a group of friends that realized we all had dysfunctional families except one person.

I still have those friends!

[Crankin]

I often feel weird because I had a pretty much great family life growing up. We were not perfect, but my parents were always open and honest, way before that was in vogue. The stress we had was financial, because my dad's shoe factory went bankrupt as the industry went overseas. We had to move and that did me in. Though, I did recover, I had a few messed up years when I made some poor decisions regarding my education and personal life. My parents always supported me. I know that both of my parents had (have) their mental health quirks, but no personality disorders.
I tried to bring up my own kids the way I was brought up. It was a good model. My DH had a dysfunctional, abusive, selfish family who still think nothing was wrong. I really don't know how he turned out so mentally sane. I would have been seriously messed up from that environment.

[Selkie]

* * *
From time to time, I get looks of judgmental pity (often mixed with a hint of envy, I might add) when people find out I don't have kids. Really, it's no wonder!

* * *

.

To quote NYBiker, WORD! ;););););););)

[lph]

As an aside, having kids (kid) of my own has changed my perception of my mother and how I was brought up quite a bit. It's been easier for me to see how she was just an imperfect person, most of the time doing the best she could, and the rest of the time just muddling along. As a child, and especially as a teenager I think I felt that my parents were all-powerful and omniscient, and did everything deliberately, with full knowledge of the consequences. Not least I viewed them solely as my parents, and not as fallible, complex human beings. As a parent myself I've discovered that even your own kids can be immensely annoying at times, that it can be hard to balance your own needs with those of your kid's, and that your temper doesn't magically disappear once you're a mother. I am very very thankful that I have a compassionate, stable, patient dh to back me up when I need it, and to step in and be the responsible one when all I want to do is yell and throw things.

[OakLeaf]

LPH... I'm one of those who's just sane enough to know that I would have been (hopefully almost, but quite possibly entirely) as damaging to a child as my parents were to me, so I refrained.

I have no doubt that having a child changes one's perspective - I have no doubt that that's a lot of where those looks of pity come from (Oh, man, those looks of pity, and IMO there's a good bit of judgment and accusation mixed in with the pity, too.)

But. My adult life and my healing has largely been about getting past the excuses, rationalizations and justifications that my parents always had. They were under stress, they were abused children themselves, yada, yada, yada. Understanding what happened to them in no way diminishes or invalidates my pain or my sisters'. They're different events that happened in different peoples' hearts. There's a causal relationship, sure, but the fact that my parents were abused as children doesn't mean that I wasn't.

[Tuckervill]

As an aside, having kids (kid) of my own has changed my perception of my mother and how I was brought up quite a bit. It's been easier for me to see how she was just an imperfect person, most of the time doing the best she could, and the rest of the time just muddling along. As a child, and especially as a teenager I think I felt that my parents were all-powerful and omniscient, and did everything deliberately, with full knowledge of the consequences. Not least I viewed them solely as my parents, and not as fallible, complex human beings. As a parent myself I've discovered that even your own kids can be immensely annoying at times, that it can be hard to balance your own needs with those of your kid's, and that your temper doesn't magically disappear once you're a mother. I am very very thankful that I have a compassionate, stable, patient dh to back me up when I need it, and to step in and be the responsible one when all I want to do is yell and throw things.

So true. It is easier to be compassionate towards my mother (and the poor beset woman with the screaming kid at the grocery) because I have kids. I understand why my mother so emotional about the welfare of my no-account brother, for instance. She doesn't want to out-live him, which I totally get. That doesn't negate the fact that she has some real boundary issues when it comes to her divorce. I just try to deal with the compartment at hand.

re the bold part: I don't remember feeling this way as a child or teenager. But one of my sons DID feel that way about me when he was a teen, and I was flabbergasted when I found out. He's a parent himself now, and I'd bet he doesn't believe that about me anymore. :D

Karen

[Selkie]

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. Raising kids is the most important job in the world and I know my limits. My mom's illness has a genetic component, so in addition to my and my DH's personal preferences, having children was not right for us. I could not knowingly take that chance, after seeing my mother's suffering.

I've had a great deal of compassion for my parents and the very difficult challenges they faced dealing with my mother's illness (it was serious, required multiple commitments/hospitalizations, and during the 1960s-1970s, not much "social" understanding or compassion for the person suffering and their loved ones...but I digress). I don't know how I would have reacted, given the same circumstances. Mental illness is terrible, particularly when untreated or inappropriately treated.

I don't think having children necessarily is a prerequisite for empathy when it comes to one's parents, as Karen pointed out about her son.

[lph]

For the record, I certainly wasn't offended :) Not did I mean to imply that my experience was or should be universal, just telling it the way things panned out for me.

Having kids or not having kids is such a personal choice (and in many cases not a choice at all) that I'm just flabbergasted by people who feel the need to be judgemental about it. Would you believe I got approached once by a total stranger, who admired our single child bike trailer, and then demanded to know why we weren't planning on more kids?? :rolleyes: :D

Unfortunately I had no snappy reply ready, like "and exactly why is that any of your business, my dear?", and was just left aaah-ing ineffectually.

[Crankin]

Yes, the comments about one's state of child rearing never cease to amaze me. At various points in my life, I was absolutely firm in the belief that I was going to have no kids, one kid, two kids... people had comments about every one of those decisions.
Now, people comment things like "Oh, you must have been a child bride. Your sons are so grown up."
My DH often gets things like, "Are those your brothers?" when people see pictures of the kids in his office. When he says they are his kids, the response is usually silence, or "How can that be?" This, in spite of the fact he is quite bald on the top of his head, with a lot of gray.
Now people ask when I am going to be a grandmother. It never stops.

[Becky]

Yes, the comments about one's state of child rearing never cease to amaze me.

People astound me when it comes to the topic of children. It's even more "fun" when it's your in-laws who won't leave well enough alone.