The Swine Flu Shot a Waste of Time!

[itself]

I call on doctors office for my profession, and have spoken to more and more people that have received the swine flu shot and have still become sick with the swine flu!

I just don't believe in all of the vaccinations for the flu. Ok, maybe once a year I get the flu, but at least I build my immunity up.

What do you all think?

Lisa

[OakLeaf]

I had to get the seasonal flu shot for work, and to me that was a dangerous waste.

It's true, rolling out the swine flu vaccine while the virus is already circulating widely isn't the ideal situation, but you may as well close the barn door while some of the horses are still inside, eh?

Did your friends get the flu more than two weeks after their shot (i.e. after enough time had passed that the shot should have worked), or was it just a matter of timing? Did they get the DNA test (not that I think seasonal flu is circulating anywhere, but still)?

I used to get the flu every year when I was young. Sure, I don't have a full-time job and I don't have any kids, so being in bed for two weeks isn't as big a deal to me as it is to most people. Still, it's not a whole lot of fun, and of course physically the rule of thumb is that for every week you spend in bed, it takes a month to recover. But as a general rule I might get a flu shot every 3-4 years. I agree though, I don't think that mass vaccination for something that's basically minor, is a good idea. Protect the ones for whom it could become a major illness; vaccinate against devastating (and non-fast-mutating) diseases like polio. And for crying out loud, devote half the resources to a freakin' malaria vaccine as are being devoted to the stupid flu right now.

Still, I said in the other thread - if I hadn't had to get the seasonal flu shot, I'd have been all over the swine flu shot as soon as it became available. I definitely don't need to be in bed for 3-4 weeks like everyone I know who's had the swine flu. But I'm very, very hesitant to get two vaccines in quick succession.

Truth is, with travel and the holidays coming up, I'll probably take the coward's way and get the shot. :o I don't know whether it's best to get it as soon as it's available to me though, or whether I should wait until the inflammation from the seasonal flu shot is completely gone...

[crazycanuck]

Swin flu season passed quicky down this way & I never got it. I think the flu shot's a waste of time & taxpayers dollars because it's not been tested as long as others.

The people that did die from it in Australia had underlying health issues anyways.

[itself]

Vaccines are the biggest source of income for both human doctors as well as veterinarians.

FYI for those of you with cats and dogs. DON'T vaccinate get their titers checked. This is what we do with our older cats, and their titers show that they are well protected as they received FeLv/FIV vaccine when they were younger.

Lisa

[ny biker]

Swin flu season passed quicky down this way & I never got it. I think the flu shot's a waste of time & taxpayers dollars because it's not been tested as long as others.

The people that did die from it in Australia had underlying health issues anyways.

So those of us with underlying health issues do not consider getting the vaccine a waste of time.

I'm glad you're all healthy. Unfortunately asthma runs in my family and I have it. The adult-onset kind that gets worse as you get older. I've watched my grandmother and my father slowly lose their ability to breathe. And now it's happening to me. So I don't take flu pandemics lightly.

[Tuckervill]

Yeah, if I were in the high risk group, I'd get the vaccine. But none of us in our family are in that group. There aren't enough to go around, so there's no point in waiting in line in the mass free clinics going on today in our state.

I'll probably sit idly by waiting for things to get way worse before I get it. I have never had the flu or the flu shot. (When I get a fever, it's usually strep throat.)

I would like it if my grandson got it...born early, 4-1/2 now, but he gets every cold that comes along. And he goes to preschool and has a 7 mo baby brother. :-/ I don't think his mother will do it.

Karen

[Zen]

I suggest reading FLU (http://www.amazon.com/Flu-Influenza-Pandemic-Search-Caused/dp/0374157065) by Gina Kolata before making any sweeping scientific pronouncements.


Ok, maybe once a year I get the flu, but at least I build my immunity up.


You get the flu once a year?

[Kathi]

So those of us with underlying health issues do not consider getting the vaccine a waste of time.

I'm glad you're all healthy. Unfortunately asthma runs in my family and I have it. The adult-onset kind that gets worse as you get older. I've watched my grandmother and my father slowly lose their ability to breathe. And now it's happening to me. So I don't take flu pandemics lightly.

+1

Already got my seasonal flu shot and am waiting for swine flu shot. Fortunately retired and no kids to expose me. My neighbor had swine flu, healthy 40ish male and wife said she had never seen anyone so sick.

As an adult onset asthmatic I don't need to hear it gets worse as you get older. My Dr. said my asthma is more difficult to treat because my triggers are environmental irritants and often don't know what will set me off.

When I was a kid I had the Asian flu, no shots then, and wound up in the hospital with pneunomia. Don't want to repeat that experience.

[Kathi]

I suggest reading FLU (http://www.amazon.com/Flu-Influenza-Pandemic-Search-Caused/dp/0374157065) by Gina Kolata before making any sweeping scientific pronouncements.

My great aunts daughter, 21 yrs old, died in that epidemic.

[shootingstar]

Gave opinion for myself elsewhere:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=34776&page=2
Right now, I'm just taking extra good care of myself to reduce my cold since I have a meeting early next wk. I can only speak for myself. The clinics in our area are swamped with lineups.

Now they are advising people who go to Olympics 2010, to take the vaccine before coming here. Honest, we are plotting to do all our non-perishable grocery shopping and stockup before the crowds and mayhem descend. More to avoid the traffic/people jams, not necessarily infectious disease. We live near the major venues.


Wouldn't be the greatest feeling if one was pregnant and be compelled to take H1N1 vacinne shot. But better to be safe in such situations.

When Toronto had the SARS which did through Toronto area, also Vancouver area went into a major tizzy since both cities are also major international airport destinations, there were serious quarantine efforts for health care related facilities, etc. 4 of my siblings work in 4 different hospitals across Toronto area, with 3 in daily contact with multiple patients...they all had to take precautions. None were sick from it though.

[lph]

But I'm very, very hesitant to get two vaccines in quick succession.

Why is that, OakLeaf?

(I know, I know, I should read up on it properly, but I'm lazy and it's more fun to ask you guys :D)

My workplace is offering both shots to all employees in a few weeks time. Normally I wouldn't bother getting any flu shot, but after spending a week second-guessing myself on whether my son had swine flu or just a bad cold, I'm ready for the whole family to take the shot just to not have to do that all winter. Which isn't really a very good reason. But my FIL has just had heart surgery, he's doing great but he can't risk any infection at all, so that's another and better reason, be sure not to infect him.

Health issues: I don't have any heart problems that I know of, but all of my close family does or did, so I guess there's still a possibility that I have something they haven't found yet.

[Eden]

I suggest reading FLU (http://www.amazon.com/Flu-Influenza-Pandemic-Search-Caused/dp/0374157065) by Gina Kolata before making any sweeping scientific pronouncements.



You get the flu once a year?

Many people who *think* they have flu just have a 24 hour bug. I've never had real flu. It makes you sick - really, really, really sick. If you get a stomach bug that makes you throw up a few times and you feel better in a day or two you have not had flu.

From what I understand nausea and vomiting are part of swine flu in addition to regular flu symptoms, but season flu is an upper respiratory infection - fever, body aches, cough.

As far as I know I've never had the actual flu. I've never been that sick. I haven't had flu shots in the past, but I get them now. I'm not that concerned about myself, but I work in a children's hospital and I would never want to make a kid sick, especially one who's health is already compromised. I haven't had either yet this year, because the vaccine supplies have been too low and they've really been prioritizing. (I work in outpatient, so far I'm not on the list)

[Eden]

.....I don't think that mass vaccination for something that's basically minor, is a good idea. Protect the ones for whom it could become a major illness; vaccinate against devastating (and non-fast-mutating) diseases like polio.
The problem is for many people flu isn't minor and that is is basically minor for you isn't the issue. It's about the health of the overall community.
If you don't protect the healthy people the sickest people suffer.


........But I'm very, very hesitant to get two vaccines in quick succession.

You shouldn't get two doses of Flu Mist on the same day - because its live attenuated virus (In injectable flu vaccines the virus is flat out dead. Flu mist is deactivated virus, but is still alive. No- it won't give you the flu, but it can cause some mild symptoms). Otherwise its perfectly safe to get many vaccinations at the same time. Normal season flu vaccine always carries several strains.

There's a really good article in the November issue of Wired (and yeah! its online http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience ) that talks about vaccines and the myths surrounding them.

[OakLeaf]

I'm not talking "minor" as in the discomfort being minimal. Flu is obviously extremely debilitating when you have it. Like I said, I'm ordinarily in bed for two weeks, and I think that's pretty much normal for flu.

I'm talking "minor" as in the frequency of complications. Sure, they happen, and sometimes to people who are not at high risk, but IMO the incidence of complications is way too low to justify universal immunization.

W/R/T scheduling, I just don't know that it's such a great idea to subject myself to a prolonged inflammatory state. I know the research on repeat vaccines is fairly thin, but obviously the medical/industrial institutions are only just starting to learn about the functions of connective tissue and the dangers of prolonged inflammation. It just seems too risky to me, since I'm not at high risk for complications.


Edit: And I work as an aerobics instructor a couple of days a week. Worst case would be I can't find a sub and my participants have to work out on their own. Nobody's really going to suffer if I get sick.

[Eden]

I'm not talking "minor" as in the discomfort being minimal. Flu is obviously extremely debilitating when you have it. Like I said, I'm ordinarily in bed for two weeks, and I think that's pretty much much normal for flu.

I'm not talking about minor as in symptoms either. I'm talking about not being minor as in killing people... For you getting sick is inconvenient. For many people getting flu kills them. As far as nobody suffering if you get sick... you are carrying the virus and are probably contagious before you get symptoms that put you to bed. You get plenty of opportunity to pass the virus who may not be as healthy as you are. By protecting yourself you are protecting the all of the vulnerable people. (and btw, just being vaccinated for anything is not 100% assurance that you are not still able to get sick, which is another reason that it is *very* important for everyone to be vaccinated. If just the vulnerable people get vaccinated, that isn't assurance that they are safe. Prevent the outbreaks in the first place) Read the Wired article.

A recent study estimated that in the United States, annual influenza epidemics result in approximately 600,000 life-years lost, 3 million hospitalized days, and 30 million outpatient visits, resulting in medical costs of $10 billion annually. According to this study, lost earnings due to illness and loss of life amounted to over $15 billion annually and the total economic burden of annual influenza epidemics amounts to over $80 billion.

And flu virus doesn't just cause flu. Before flu vaccines 15,000 children were infected with Hib meningitis every year, which can easily kill or cause permanent brain damage.

I'm in a bit of a special circumstance - working with sick kids, but even if I knew that my being vaccinated only protected one kid, I'd still feel obligated to do it. It's too much of a risk, even if I know I won't get very sick and it wouldn't impact my personal life too much, to not get vaccinated. Of course in reality my getting vaccinated could protect many, many people. If I get sick and I make two people sick and they make two people sick......

[KnottedYet]

You shouldn't get two doses of Flu Mist on the same day - because its live attenuated virus (In injectable flu vaccines the virus is flat out dead. Flu mist is deactivated virus, but is still alive. No- it won't give you the flu, but it can cause some mild symptoms). Otherwise its perfectly safe to get many vaccinations at the same time. Normal season flu vaccine always carries several strains.



My clinic's communicable diseases docs say we have to wait 30 days between mists. Which is a bummer for me, because I've had the real-deal flu three times and it really hits me hard. One of my patients had swine flu a couple weeks ago, and said he's not been that sick in at least 10 years. I have to wait another 2 weeks before I can get the swine flu mist, and believe me I will get that vaccine! Flu is no fun for me, and I really don't want to be incubating the bugger and pass it on to any of my patients! (or my kid, or my parents, or my friends, or the folks on my bus, or my neighbors, or...)

[Eden]

My clinic's communicable diseases docs say we have to wait 30 days between mists. Which is a bummer for me, because I've had the real-deal flu three times and it really hits me hard.

You can still get injectable vaccine - Our employee health service was giving Flu Mist for H1N1 and regular injectable (dead) seasonal flu vaccines on the same day. Just not another dose of of live attenuated virus.

They've even gone as far as to not allow Flu Mist for people who work with *really* vulnerable populations - so you're not allowed live vaccines at all if you work with patients who have compromised immune systems. I think rehab and people who work with bone marrow transplant kids were included in that. I think they had a very small supply of injectable H1N1 for those folks.

[katluvr]

I have been reading this thread with interest and waiting to "butt" in.
I am a healthcare provider. I no longer provide direct care to patients.
I do not plan to get the flu shot. I have not in the past, even when providing direct patient care. It is my personal preference.
I also feel that I am leaving that dose to someone whom may need/want it.

I am not worried about getting it or passing it. (Partly in that I don't have direct interactions with patients or the communinity in large).

I wash my hands. I try to touch very little. I avoid hugging people (and all that kissing on the check). I recently flew and seemed to survive. So there are ways to protect yourself if you chose not to get the vaccine. I do not think I am putting others at risk of my spreading the virus. Maybe that is selfish of me. Now if I had another job, family or community interactions it may be different.

K

[Eden]

In the end it is certainly your choice. Until I started working at a children's hospital I had neither ever had the flu vaccine or the flu and felt very much like you. As I had never had the flu I always figured that it was better for me to leave that dose for someone who really needed it, as it always seems to be in such short supply.

At this job I do feel very obligated to protect the patients, even if my chances of even getting the flu are pretty low.

I do however feel that if you choose not to get a vaccine (not just flu, but any vaccine) you should be aware of exactly what you are doing. Just because you are not part of a vulnerable population doesn't mean that you won't be part of the larger problem *if* you do get sick.

Really - read the article in Wired, its very well written.

[katluvr]

Eden,
I get "Wired".
I did read it.
And I support vaccines. I am a pediatric critical care nurse and ARNP.
IMO the Flu vaccine is a bit different. And if I still did direct care with the kiddo's my thought framework maybe be different that it is today.
I feel for those that are feeling pressured to have the season and H1N1 vaccines. I am fortunate not to be pressured.
Do I support my parents (in their 70's) to get it...Absolutely!

As with many things, there are many sides to this story. Many "truths" and "myths" out there.

K

[indigoiis]

A 12 year old girl died in RI this week from H1N1. She was apparently healthy in all respects - soccer player, normal weight and height... didn't feel well last Friday and was dead by Monday.

It has certainly changed my thinking about the whole thing... it scares the poop out of me to think a healthy person with no other issues can die from it. I have a sixteen year old daughter and I just can't imagine what that mother is feeling right now. We are doing everything (handwashing, etc.) to prevent getting it but both of us are in areas where we can be exposed every day. We also take the bus. It's freaking me out just a little!

[Eden]

Eden,
I get "Wired".
I did read it.
And I support vaccines. I am a pediatric critical care nurse and ARNP.
IMO the Flu vaccine is a bit different. And if I still did direct care with the kiddo's my thought framework maybe be different that it is today.
I feel for those that are feeling pressured to have the season and H1N1 vaccines. I am fortunate not to be pressured.
Do I support my parents (in their 70's) to get it...Absolutely!

As with many things, there are many sides to this story. Many "truths" and "myths" out there.

K

If i didn't work with kids I might be more inclined to skip it - but then I've never had the flu.....

If I were like some posters and I had the flu each year (or even some years) - even if I didn't get very ill, I'd definitely get the vaccine, even without the sick kids factor. My point is only that it is not all about *you* - that anyone who does get the flu probably passes it on and someone on down the line may have a very bad outcome. Even if you get a mild case, even if being sick for a few weeks doesn't affect you that much, it could be very different for the next guy.

The risks to me are minimal - I've never had a bad reaction to a vaccine. I've never had Guillaume-Barre and I don't have an allergy to eggs or feathers. I think it is my responsibility to protect the community when I'm given the opportunity. Could it be that I won't ever get the flu or pass it on even if not vaccinated? Maybe so, but why take that chance.

I also think that we've been so successful at eradicating and treating some diseases that we've become complacent about how dangerous that they can be. Flu epidemics in the past killed millions. Just because we have it under control right now, doesn't mean it will stay that way. If we become complacent about prevention we could have a new epidemic on our hands. There have already been resurgences of diseases that were nearly gone - like measles and whooping cough.

[OakLeaf]

Haemophilus influenzae (the agent that causes Hib meningitis) does not cause influenza, despite its name.

I'm not at all opposed to vaccines in principle.

I did read the Wired piece, before you linked to it actually.

I have serious reservations about universal vaccination for a disease with a low rate of complications.

When there are complications, of course it's tragic for the individuals involved. I'm not dismissing that at all. But the fact remains that the rate of complications for seasonal flu is very low, and at this preliminary stage they're not finding H1N1 to be significantly different, despite the initial fears.

I referenced the book Sway in the thread about cancer screenings. It's a laypersons' book, but very well documented, and I highly recommend it. (The book has nothing to do with medical decisionmaking specifically, but rather - in part - with how our minds are hard-wired to choose a known harm in order to avoid a remote risk.)

[Tuckervill]

Isn't it true that people who die from swine flu have actually succumbed to much more serious complications, such as pneumonia, which they wouldn't have been susceptible to had they not contracted swine flu?

Also, I have to think that when the last flu pandemics came through that there was much less technology, knowledge and practice that, now that we have them, are designed to prevent mass deaths. Oh, that's a terrible sentence...but we wash our hands now and use the hand sanitizer and have greater awareness and air filtration systems, etc. We have antivirals and such, that they didn't have before? Penicillin for the pneumonia, etc.

Also, someone said that you can spread the virus before you develop symptoms. Isn't that true whether you're vaccinated or not? If the virus exists on your hands or clothing and you pass them on to your child who then gets the flu, is there really anything you can do about that? Not really, except keep your hands washed.

Them's my thoughts. Still not lining up for the shot.

Karen

[Eden]

Directly from the CDC.
The period when an infected person is contagious depends on the age and health of the person. Studies show that most healthy adults may be able to infect others from 1 day prior to becoming sick and for 5-7 days after they first develop symptoms. Some young children and people with weakened immune systems may be contagious for longer than a week.

So yes, you are contagious before you get symptoms.

Maybe only 36,000 people die from the flu each year (in the US)... but I'm sure that if you are one of the loved ones of one of those people the fact that its not that many people doesn't really interest you...

[KnottedYet]

I only had flu once before I worked with patients.
I didn't start getting flu vaccinations until I caught flu 2 more times (most likely from patients).

Today while heading out for lunch I saw a desperately ill flu patient come into the clinic, on her way to the communicable disease doctors. I will confess, I held my breath as I walked past... and didn't breathe again until I was outside. Silly reaction, but I couldn't help it.

Flu isn't silly. People make comments in the newspaper about how ridiculous all the precautions are. "Look how silly this is, we all were so careful and there wasn't a deadly epidemic this spring, so this was all an exercise in futility. I'm not doing it anymore." Ummm... that's a sign of success, not futility! It's like a parent being frustrated over changing diapers. "Look how silly this is, I changed my kid's diaper every two hours and he didn't get the diaper rash everyone said he might get, so this was all an exercise in futility. I'm not doing it anymore."

The H1N1 vaccine is about 70% effective. Anyone born after the 1950's when we last had an H1N1 has NO immunity. It's a huge pool of virus-breeders ready to saturate the population with icky boogers. The chance of an immunocompromised person contacting someone born after the 1950's is pretty darn high, and if 100% of those folks are potential virus bags, life gets risky for them. Even if only 70% become immune, that's 70% fewer human petri dishes putting other folks at risk.

Frankly, ladies, I don't give a rip if you get swine flu or not. Just don't spread it to anyone else. ;)

So: don't leave your house, don't handle any paper money, don't flush your toilet, don't open your windows... we'll let you know when the rest of us have antibodies and are no longer at risk of you being a human cootie factory shedding live virus from every pore and orifice.

[kmehrzad]

My daughter who is finishing a residency program will be visiting several hospitals in the coming months so I encouraged her to get a seasonal flu shot. She got it yesterday morning and after lunch started feeling nauseous. Early this morning she was vomiting and had two episodes of extreme stomach spasms that made it difficult for her to breathe. She called me in the early hours (I'm in VA and she's in FL) and I told her to call 911 but she was reluctant to do so thinking things would calm down and they did after about 1/2 hr.
She called the nurse who administered the shot and was instructed to call the CDC and report her reaction. A rep from the CDC said that some people are exhibiting breathing problems, allergic reactions, hives, etc. My daughter was told that she probably shouldn't receive seasonal flu shots in the future due to her reaction.

[Tuckervill]

Directly from the CDC.
The period when an infected person is contagious depends on the age and health of the person. Studies show that most healthy adults may be able to infect others from 1 day prior to becoming sick and for 5-7 days after they first develop symptoms. Some young children and people with weakened immune systems may be contagious for longer than a week.

So yes, you are contagious before you get symptoms.

So I'm thinking about this period of time right here, when only a fraction of people have been vax'd and there is not enough vaccine to go around. Even if I plan on getting the vaccine in the future when it's available to such as I (I am certain I won't be part of any eligible group until 2010.), there is nothing I can do about spreading the germ or not, whether I have natural immunity and never get symptoms, or right up until the moment I do get symptoms, to prevent someone else from getting it from me.

So why even bring that up in the argument? As if it impugnes the people who are not inclined to get the shot in the first place, when in fact, it applies to everyone vaccinated, post-flu and well again, or not vaccinated at all. It is irrelevant.

I CANNOT get the vaccine, so there's no point in me doing anything different except be mindful of my sanitary practices. The suggestion that I should stay inside is ridiculous and unnecessary.

Karen

[Eden]

Knot you make me smile!

There are definitely people who should *not* be vaccinated. Anyone who has had a bad reaction to a vaccine, is allergic to eggs/poultry products, some people with certain immune problems.

That is exactly why it is more important to be vaccinated if you can be.... protect the people who are most vulnerable by not getting sick yourself.

[KnottedYet]

Knot you make me smile!



I was being a little tongue-in-cheek. :p But only a little...

[OakLeaf]

Maybe only 36,000 people die from the flu each year (in the US)... but I'm sure that if you are one of the loved ones of one of those people the fact that its not that many people doesn't really interest you...

And if a few years down the road 100,000 people get Alzheimer's, or heart disease (just to mention two conditions known to be connected to inflammation)? It's remote in time, nobody has done long-term studies, so no one is interested in those people.

If it was certain there was no risk to immunizations, that would be a whole 'nother story. But it's not. When the risk of complications is high - whether it's human polio or canine parvo - that's a whole 'nother story too. But with the seasonal flu, it's not.

[Eden]

I CANNOT get the vaccine, so there's no point in me doing anything different except be mindful of my sanitary practices.

That's very true... unfortunately flu spreads not only by contact with surfaces, but through droplets in the air, so you can have the best hygiene in the world and still get /spread flu, but staying out of contact with everyone just because of risk is not reasonable (unless of course there is a widespread outbreak... then staying away from other people may be in your best interest).

If you can't get the vaccine that's not your fault. I'm not going to admonish people for things that are beyond their control, but I would like everyone to think carefully about the decision, even if that decision in the end is to not get the vaccine. I do think there are reasons to not do it, but I also think that a lot of people make a snap decision before really thinking it through or make a decision based on dubious information. I haven't had either seasonal or H1N1 yet because of the shortages. There are definitely priority lists and I am not either high risk myself, nor do I work with the most compromised patients. I will get the vaccine as soon as it is available to me.

[itself]

I also have adult onset asthma and choose not to get the vaccine. However, I got an ELISA blood test and as with most people, it was food allergies/intolerances. Traditional doctors would rather give pills and inhalers to asthmatics rather than look at the root. I was a horrible asthmatic until I pulled many food groups out of my diet. Now, no pills.

Yes, as far as getting the flu "once a year" I generally get a 24 hour bug. This swine flu is clearly hitting very young people which is really weird, as flus typically attack the elderly.

They say that 30-40% of people here in AZ will get the swine flu. That is pretty scarey, but not enough for me to get the vaccine.

Lisa

[OakLeaf]

A 24-hour bug is not the flu.

If you had the flu, you'd know it.

People of all ages get the flu. It's simply that the rate of complications is higher among people who are in poor health generally, which elderly people disproportionately are. Same with all infectious diseases.

Here's a little something from this week's NEJM (http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2126&query=TOC). Not related to the flu, but ought to scare the cr*p out of anyone who takes anything that's FDA-approved.

[indigoiis]

So then, what sorts of things can one do to keep from getting sick besides washing hands and not sharing utensils or contact?
Any sort of natural preventative? Up the vitamin C? Fresh air and sunshine?
I'd rather my daughter not have the immunization. I've got a few weeks before her school gets their supply to do research and really do feel torn.

[OakLeaf]

My take, I don't think there's any magic bullet.

Being religious about hand-washing and hand sanitizer, not touching any public surfaces with my bare hands if I can help it, and not touching my eyes or nose (which pretty much goes by the wayside on the bike, see the thread about vasomotor rhinitis :rolleyes:).

Sunshine and fresh air. (Vitamin D and staying out of environments where the virus replicates easily, for those who believe that if the Mayo Clinic can't explain something, it can't be true. But my personal opinion is that it would be surprising if there weren't more factors at work there.)

Think really hard about signing up for any races until after the flu season peaks. Light exertion is good, the sustained hard efforts required for training suppress the immune system. This is probably the toughest one for most people here. :(

On the "it can't hurt" front, I've started taking elderberry extract. I actually started it after I caught my second cold this fall (training for two big events :rolleyes:), and the cold vanished almost immediately. Now... that's just as likely because it was only a slight mutation from the first cold I had and my immune system was already on top of it... but as I said, it can't hurt, and it's possible it was why I got over the cold so quickly.

Plenty of fluids and foam roller work. I don't really have any idea of how the fascia and the immune system are connected, but I know they are connected, and anyway, it's good for me on a strictly physical level (in the sense of "physical medicine" physical).


(And, as I said before, if it had been completely up to me, I'd have got the H1N1 vaccine and skipped the seasonal flu shot.)

[sfa]

My son was hospitalized three weeks ago with the flu, and is still fighting the pneumonia that he got as a result of the flu.

He has a primary immune deficiency disorder and can't get vaccines (well, he could but they wouldn't do a damn thing for him since he can't produce IgG, and the live virus vaccines are dangerous for him), so for him, we rely on other people getting vaccinated to keep him healthy since avoidance is the only way he stays healthy. This isn't just about flu--he also doesn't have immunity to measles or whooping cough or chicken pox or any of those other things that might be a PITA to someone else who chooses not to get vaccinated and instead gets the disease, but for him they could easily be fatal. He does get gammaglobulin every four weeks to give him a temporary immune system, so for the most part we don't worry, but new viruses aren't yet in the gammaglobulin so they are extraordinarily dangerous to him. What he had three weeks ago was just the seasonal flu (or so we're assuming since the rest of us stayed healthy and had already received the seasonal flu vaccine).

We haven't been able to get the swine flu vaccine yet, and I know the virus is going around in our area, so I'm really worried about him. He's in every risk category for getting the worst of this virus (age, underlying condition, neurological disorder), and he's already so weak from this last disease that getting something else could kill him quickly. I'm not being melodramatic about this--this is just how it is. I'm very bothered by people who think that since they aren't high risk then they don't need the vaccine. I don't get vaccines to keep ME healthy (although that's a nice benefit)--I get vaccinated to keep OTHER people healthy, people who for one reason or another can't get vaccinated. These people are everywhere. It's not just rare cases like my son, but cancer patients and infants and people allergic to eggs. I don't want to go to the grocery store not knowing that I'm contagious with something and then accidentally pass it on to the leukemia patient picking over the apples with me before I have the first symptoms and I end up sick for a few days and she ends up dead because I didn't think the vaccine was necessary for me. That's not something I want to live with. If I can help keep other people healthy through this one small thing, I will.

Sarah

[salsabike]

SFA and Eden, I couldn't agree more with what both of you are saying. Thank you.

[Tuckervill]

It will be months before I become eligible for the vaccine. In fact, by the time there is enough vaccine for people in my category, the peak of the flu season in my area will be over. I can't take responsibility for spreading a virus that I can't prevent. I just can't do a single thing about that.

I'm sorry about your son.

Karen

[snapdragen]

SFA and Eden, I couldn't agree more with what both of you are saying. Thank you.

+1 million.

//got my flu shot, will get the H1N1 shot when it's available. Since I work at a hospital I expect it to be sooner rather than later.

[Zen]

Anyone born after the 1950's when we last had an H1N1 has NO immunity.
Wow! Bonus to you for knowing H1N1 has been around before! I learned that by reading the aforementioned Flu (http://www.booknotes.org/Program/?ProgramID=1632).
It's a good book, reads like a crime novel.

I can't take a flu shot due to an immune deficiency but I do get a pneumonia shot every year.

[KnottedYet]

Wow! Bonus to you for knowing H1N1 has been around before! I learned that by reading the aforementioned Flu (http://www.booknotes.org/Program/?ProgramID=1632).
It's a good book, reads like a crime novel.


We have had sooooooo much flu education at work, and we all have to read flu updates every day, and we're all educating all our patients all the time. Not a bonus to me, unfortunately. Just part of what is hammered into our heads.

I really want to read that book, Zen.

(oooh, one cool piece of trivia I learned recently: it appears that osteoporosis medications may kill off the H1N1 virus in vivo. that could be nifty if it turns out to be true.)

[Aquila]

Sarah,

I hope your son is doing better and continues to recover.

***

I get the flu shot partly for myself. I can't afford to be off work for a couple weeks, as one of my colleagues was a couple years ago. I work with young adults, and I know their handwashing isn't quite what it might be. I'm in a relatively low risk group (middle-aged woman, healthy), and I've never had the flu.

I'll get the swine flu vaccine when the people at higher risk have had opportunities to get it and it becomes available to the wider community. As I understand it, the swine flu vaccine is made with the same process that's been used for seasonal vaccines for years now; it's a proven method, safe and pretty effective for most people. Too bad they didn't know and have it ready to go to put in the seasonal shot because it would be less of a hassle for all of us.

But the other reason I get the flu shot is because it contributes to herd immunity. If we can get 90% or so of the community covered, we can reduce the chances that folks with compromised immune systems or other problems catch bugs. That means a lot to me. I want to help keep Sarah's son and others just a little safer.

One last word about vaccines: small pox. Okay, that's two words, but really, we got rid of a disease that used to kill a lot of people.

We have a chance to get rid of polio if we can get everything together. My aunt had polio in the 50s, and it still causes her problems. I'm grateful to have had the polio vaccine as a kid; none of my schoolmates got polio that I remember. What a change that was from my parents' generation!

[ny biker]

(oooh, one cool piece of trivia I learned recently: it appears that osteoporosis medications may kill off the H1N1 virus in vivo. that could be nifty if it turns out to be true.)

That would be awesome, since my father has bad asthma AND takes osteoporosis meds.

[Selkie]

My dad was disabled from a childhood bout w/polio (feet were different sizes).

In my early 30s, I had to get a polio booster shot before I traveled overseas, among other shots.

I get the flu shot because they give it to us at work---convenient, free, etc. I decided not to get the H1N1, if they have any left for the rest of us (not pregnant, no little kids/babies in the house, etc.) I figure that by the time it's available, I'll likely have already been exposed to the virus.

This definitely is one of those personal choices, so everyone has to do what's right for them.

[Zen]

This definitely is one of those personal choices, so everyone has to do what's right for them.

It essentially is a 'personal choice'. But if someone chooses not to be vaccinated then becomes ill and infects others exponentially what kind of choice is that?

[malkin]

Since I probably have H1N1 now, the question of getting the vaccine is moot.

[Tuckervill]

Feel better, Malkin.

Karen

[lo123]

It essentially is a 'personal choice'. But if someone chooses not to be vaccinated then becomes ill and infects others exponentially what kind of choice is that?

I struggle with this.. As a high risk person (severe asthma and taking multiple immunosuppressive drugs), I want everyone to get vaccinated. However, I also have the ability to be vaccinated, so long as it's not a live vaccine. So, I have some control over the situation.

Sfa, I feel for you. I really don't know how I'd feel if I were unable to get the vaccine and knew many would not get it because it doesn't affect them.


On the other hand, I support people's right to decide for themselves. I just wish more people would make the decision I like :p

[Selkie]

It essentially is a 'personal choice'. But if someone chooses not to be vaccinated then becomes ill and infects others exponentially what kind of choice is that?

Then those who got sick apparently chose not to get vaccinated as well.

As I said before, it's a personal choice. I respect that and try not to judge. Now what pisses me off is when someone who is sick comes into work and spreads it around. People where I work are TOLD to stay home if they have the flu. A lot of folks ignore this, however (everyone where I work has sick leave as a benefit, so it's not like they aren't paid if they are off).

[Tuckervill]

Then those who got sick apparently chose not to get vaccinated as well.


Or they couldn't be vaccinated, for whatever reason. Like their own personal medical history, or that they are not in the group that can get the vaccine (me).

Karen

[indigoiis]

Now what pisses me off is when someone who is sick comes into work and spreads it around. People where I work are TOLD to stay home if they have the flu. A lot of folks ignore this, however (everyone where I work has sick leave as a benefit, so it's not like they aren't paid if they are off).

Yes, this bothers me too. Nothing is so important that you HAVE to come in to work coughing, sneezing, spreading germs. I don't get that!!!

[Crankin]

I'm with Eden and Knott. I had the seasonal shot for the first time in my life about a month ago. And I have had the flu; to those who say they have a "flu" you shouldn't use the words so casually. Seven days in bed, 105 fever, and a recovery that took 5-8 weeks. I am sure i had pneumonia.
I am in a high risk category, with mild asthma and I cannot find a place to get the H1N1, especially since I need the single dose shot (I'm too old for the mist) with no preservative. At this point, I am wiling to risk the reaction to the mercury because I am pretty sure if I caught it, I'd be the one in the hospital with pneumonia and be dead.
I don't have contact with kids anymore and I was born in the fifties. But I do work in a psychiatric clinic 3 days a week and use public transportation/go to grad classes twice a week. I never was a hand washer until now. Now I am obsessed.
I guess I value my life too much to say I am not getting the shot. Short from staying inside my house 24 hours a day, I think it's the best protection we have. And this is from someone who has reactions to everything.

[NbyNW]

Nothing is so important that you HAVE to come in to work coughing, sneezing, spreading germs. I don't get that!!!

+1!!!!

My boss decided last winter that it would be okay to spread her germs around the office, and the next thing you know, the rest of us were dropping like flies, AND I had the worst asthma flare-up that I've had in YEARS as a result. Took months to start feeling well again, and most of the time was not up to the kind of physical activity I would have liked.

Re: whether to get vaccinated or not, I wonder whether those who don't get the vaccine (for whatever reason -- by choice, lack of availability, or contraindicated) might be few enough and not in contact with immune-compromised people that hopefully the risk is minimized enough to deem the vaccine successful in terms of controlling the spread of the virus? (Sorry about the poor sentence construction)

[OakLeaf]

FWIW, if you don't have an anaphylactoid reaction to eating eggs, you can get the shot. I have the other type of egg allergy, and I actually tried to get a note from my allergist to get out of the seasonal flu shot - specifically so I could get the H1N1 shot without reservations - but no dice. (And I've never been asked about feather allergy, and never had an allergic reaction to a vaccine, even though feathers are the one thing that induces a very severe asthma attack for me.)

Who's saying it's going to be two+ months before the H1N1 shot will be available to the public? That's not what I'm hearing at all - in our area all first responders were vaccinated last month, pregnant women and young children are getting it right now, and we're expecting everyone who wants one will have access by the end of November.

[Tuckervill]

"Meanwhile, Tom Skinner at the CDC is hopeful that the shortage will be resolved by mid-November or early December, as the agency has projected."

http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/27/swine-flu-vaccine-lifestyle-health-h1n1-shortage.html

I've heard the virus doesn't grow as fast as they thought it would in the eggs.

Karen

[OakLeaf]

"mid-November or early December"



Not far different from the "end of November" I've been hearing.... certainly not January or later.

[Tuckervill]

I heard January somewhere else. Actually, what I heard was "2010" for everyone to get fully vaccinated. But I admit it was on the news, in passing, and it could have been before they figured out how to increase production.

Karen

[Eden]

Then those who got sick apparently chose not to get vaccinated as well.

As I said before, it's a personal choice. I respect that and try not to judge. Now what pisses me off is when someone who is sick comes into work and spreads it around. People where I work are TOLD to stay home if they have the flu. A lot of folks ignore this, however (everyone where I work has sick leave as a benefit, so it's not like they aren't paid if they are off).

Some people, and these include the most vulnerable people like Sfa's son cannot get vaccinated. They rely on everyone else to get it to keep outbreaks from happening.

Not staying home when you are sick is of course stupid, but you are capable of spreading the flu virus a full day before you get any symptoms. This is by far enough time to have spread it to your co-workers - and remember flu can travel in the air, you don't necessarily have to touch a surface then touch yourself to catch it, so even the most diligent hand washing isn't an assurance that you will be safe. Do you know how many of your co-workers have vulnerable family members? Kids with asthma, elderly parents, partners in chemo? Vaccination works best when you protect the herd. If you prevent people from getting sick in the first place then they cannot spread the illness to the more vulnerable people.

[badger]

my dad has leukemia and taking chemo which has left him with virtually no immune system to speak of.

He's already gotten his shot, so I'm glad about that. I'm still sitting on the fence in regards to my taking the H1N1. I won't bother with the seasonal flu vaccine, as I just never do, but I'm a bit weary of the H1N1 simply because I would hate it to mutate like it did in 1918 and kill the young and healthy.

I also admit that, although this is a very rare side effect, I do worry about adverse effects of the shots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh5F5wP8RdU

[Tuckervill]

Oh my word. That was so bizarre. Poor woman.

Karen

[OakLeaf]

Yeah, I still highly recommend everyone read Sway, but it's a perfectly understandable and rational decisionmaking process that we all want someone else to take the risk so we don't have to.

[snapdragen]

Cross post from another forum....from the trenches

H1N1 is ugly (http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=192378)

[lo123]

Who's saying it's going to be two+ months before the H1N1 shot will be available to the public? That's not what I'm hearing at all - in our area all first responders were vaccinated last month, pregnant women and young children are getting it right now, and we're expecting everyone who wants one will have access by the end of November.

Some states, like Alabama, where I'm at, are restricting which of the at risk groups get vaccine because of the shortage. I cannot get it yet because the groups they're allowing to get vaccine now do not include those with underlying health conditions or immunosuppression unless they're 18 or younger.

Still no word here on when they'll start expanding the pool of eligible groups, let alone open it to the general public.

[OakLeaf]

I can't help pointing out that three months ago (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=30594&highlight=pandemic)the mood on this board was that the threat was overblown, and the coverage was simply fearmongering by the CDC and the press...

[snapdragen]

I've never felt it was over blown. At the hospital I work at, it's not if but when the flu became a pandemic. We've been training and preparing for a couple of years now.

[Jolt]

On a somewhat related note (not swine flu but respiratory etiquette in general), this is cute: http://www.schooltube.com/video/40784/Sneeze-PSA

[spindizzy]

I think it is reasonable to look at vaccines, medication and other prescribed treatments with healthy skepticism. And this thread certainly has presented a lot of those issues.

I rarely get colds; I have had the flu once in the last 20 years. I work with a very vulnerable population - most of the kids I work with are immune-suppressed. I did get H1N1 vaccine for that reason. Not the happiest decision I made. I do worry that the amount of vaccine we expose people to are hyper-stimulating the immune system. A challenge to that thought is that our immune system is constantly being exposed to stuff anyway.

Zen - I'll have to read the book you suggested. My great-grandmother died of the flu in 1918- I understand it was young healthy adults with great immune systems that perhaps reacted "too much" to the virus. And I also understand that there was no way to treat the overwhelming lung infections that resulted in so many deaths - penicillin was not used in humans until 1941.

And curses to people who go to work sick, take public transit and spew and cough and sneeze and then touch everything......One woman last week coughed so hard (and of course did not cover her mouth) I felt it on my arm- I just glared at her and then proceeded to place my jacket over my mouth and nose.....I had to restrain myself from making a scene...I really am thinking seriously about driving into work.

[Eden]

My great-grandmother died of the flu in 1918- I understand it was young healthy adults with great immune systems that perhaps reacted "too much" to the virus. And I also understand that there was no way to treat the overwhelming lung infections that resulted in so many deaths - penicillin was not used in humans until 1941.

Antibiotics will only help you if you get a secondary bacterial infection (like pneumonia). Viruses - ala flu, are unaffected by them and are still *very* difficult to treat. We do have some anti-virals these days, but supplies are limited and effectiveness is limited (Tamiflu has a very specific time period that it must be taken in to work). Of course as you probably know even bacterial infections are getting more difficult to treat, with many resistant to multiple antibiotics. If you are hospitalized with flu your chances of contracting MRSA or some other nasty are much greater (especially if you require intubation). If we were to experience a major outbreak like the one in 1918 it is likely that many, many people (young and healthy people) would still die.

[ny biker]

The Virginia Dept of Health is running TV commercials urging people to get the H1N1 vaccine.

Too bad there are none available right now...

[Selkie]

I heard on local news reports that people are crossing jurisdictions to get the shot and that people NOT in the high-risk groups are getting vaccinated. I'm not judging, just thought it worth mentioning.

[Trek420]

And curses to people who go to work sick, take public transit and spew and cough and sneeze and then touch everything......

I love my job, really I do, the pay and bennies are great, my co-workers are great, I'm a teeny tiny itsy bitsy cog in a big company (I forget if it's Fortune 50 or 10) .... we have no sick time. :(

If I'm sick I call in sick, I'm paid while I'm off.

If I do that often or long enough I'm fired.

The formula for what is too often or too long is kept in an ivory tower guarded by dragons. With my 13 years of PERFECT attendance (except the one time I rode my bike off a cliff to avoid hitting a kid and took a day off) I don't know what it is. If I caught the bug or a bug I could/would stay home.

But we are the be-all-end all of presentee'ism. Coworkers mostly younger than me with kids all trying to come to work each day so they don't get fired for attendance. I can't count on anyone staying home because they or a family member had this bug. :mad:

As a member of the building's safety team I am trying to get prevention tips posted in every bathroom, every break room, at every sink in the building including the admonition to stay home if you or a family member are sick.

These are official corporate policy and memos. Can I get those printed and posted? Noooo. If I do can they stay up? Nooooo.

It gets taken down by management and all we have is sell-sell-sell rah rah c&^p posted. Even in the stalls :confused: :mad:

There is a corporate department that does flu shots. Can we get them to show up in our building? Nooooooo.

Knott, Eden and all, what year is it that I may have some immunity if born before then? I'm a 1956 era.

[Veronica]

Trek, I have to say where you work is just bizarre. How can they NOT tell you how many sick days you get and how can they fire you for being sick?

On every month's paycheck I have a listing of how many sick days I have - 88.5 days on the books currently. I forget how many days we get every year, but they accrue and if I don't use them, I'll get paid for them when I retire. They also get carried to another district if I change districts. I don't really like to call in sick - doing the sub plans is a pain in the arse. Especially doing them when you already feel like crap. Fortunately, I don't get sick very often. I'll catch colds from the students every now and then (like right now :mad:). But in general I am pretty healthy and I've never gotten a flu shot.

Veronica

[Eden]

A lot of places now just do PTO - paid time off. It's a catch all for vacation and sick days. Under this system I think people may tend to get in trouble. They take the days as vacation and don't budget any for getting sick - and who can blame them, because in a lot of companies the PTO expires, so if you don't use it you lose it. So you use it - then if you get sick you get in trouble... (or you come in anyway and spread your disease to all of your co-workers)

When I worked for the federal government it was *not* like this. We got sick time. If you didn't use it, it accrued - forever. My first boss was even able to take a year or two's early retirement with all of his sick leave... You could also be nice and donate sick leave to a co-worker who was out and had used up all of their own sick leave, so that they could still be paid for time off when they had a grave illness, though I think there were limits to the amount that could be transferred.

[ny biker]

We switched from separate vacation and sick time to PTO several years ago. It hasn't been a problem for me so far. I think the co-workers who run out mid-year are the ones who take time off to take care of sick kids rather than their own illnesses.

We do have a fair number of people who sneeze and hack and cough all day at work. Most of them are suffering from allergies but you can never be sure they're not actually sharing a disease with us all. Just one more reason why I press elevator buttons with my elbow.

[snapdragen]

Under my union contract, I get sick and vacation days. First day sick is taken out of vacation -- kind of covers those mental health days without using up your sick leave. Of course, in my case after 3+ months off last year, I don't have much sick or vacation time to use. :rolleyes:

My workplace is the direct opposite of Trek's -- you can't swing the proverbial dead cat without hitting some sort of H1N1/Flu prevention flyer, poster, email, dancing bear.....

[Trek420]

My workplace is the direct opposite of Trek's -- you can't swing the proverbial dead cat without hitting some sort of H1N1/Flu prevention flyer, poster, email, dancing bear.....

I'm not sayin' who I work for but someone once mailed a bill to my employer addressed only with our slogan "no job is so urgent, no service so important that we can not afford to do our job safely" and it got here.

Perhaps those days are gone. Wash your hands everyone, sneeze into your elbow and be safe out there! :cool:

[malkin]

I wonder what would happen if I did try to show up at work the way I've been for the last several days.

First, someone would probably notice that I couldn't stand up or walk around because of fatigue. Not being able to talk without coughing could have gotten a bit of attention. Finally, my inability to stay awake might have been a bit of a problem.

Planning another day home tomorrow.

[NbyNW]

what year is it that I may have some immunity if born before then? I'm a 1956 era.

According to this timeline, it depends on whether you had the flu before the 1957 Asian flu outbreak:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18063-timeline-the-secret-history-of-swine-flu.html?full=true&print=true

[OakLeaf]

That's fascinating reading, thanks!

[lph]

New Scientist is my favourite magazine, I love it. Thanks for the tip.

[spindizzy]

Antibiotics will only help you if you get a secondary bacterial infection (like pneumonia). Viruses - ala flu, are unaffected by them and are still *very* difficult to treat. We do have some anti-virals these days, but supplies are limited and effectiveness is limited (Tamiflu has a very specific time period that it must be taken in to work). Of course as you probably know even bacterial infections are getting more difficult to treat, with many resistant to multiple antibiotics. If you are hospitalized with flu your chances of contracting MRSA or some other nasty are much greater (especially if you require intubation). If we were to experience a major outbreak like the one in 1918 it is likely that many, many people (young and healthy people) would still die.

Eden - you are correct to state that antibiotics do not help to eradicate the flu - antibiotics will do nothing for viral infections. I should have stated that the thought is that many died from a cytokine storm (our immune system in overdrive) that caused pulmonary edema and/or a secondary bacterial infection (which at the time there was no antibiotics for).

[xeney]

This is an interesting discussion but feels largely irrelevant from where I'm sitting -- my two-year-old (who is not particularly high risk aside from being very small for her age) is on waiting lists for both H1N1 and seasonal flu vaccine, because her pediatrician's office has run out of both. I'm pregnant and my OB does know when they are getting the shots. Kaiser seems to have both the shot and the mist, but nobody else has either right now. We'll both be vaccinated if we can be, but right now it looks like vaccines will not be available until the worst of the epidemic is over.

[OakLeaf]

Doesn't your health department have it? Since it's on pandemic ordering (I didn't really understand how that worked before reading the article NbyNW posted), all the distribution is through state and county health departments.

Here, no private entities have the H1N1 vaccine, and no word on when they'll have any, but the county health departments have been having clinics once or twice a week for eligible populations.

[Tuckervill]

I was in Sam's Club yesterday afternoon and I stumbled into a little-trafficked area by the pharmacy, and they had a flu shot clinic set up back there. About 50 chairs lined up along the aisle, and not a single person in line.

I did not get the shot. (I doubt they were giving H1N1 anyway.)

Karen

[snapdragen]

Probably just the regular flu shot. They've had a "clinic" -- more like a table in the back of the store -- at our local Safeway. People haven't exactly been lining up there, but I've seen a few getting the shot.

[snapdragen]

Xeney -- check with your Public Health Department

http://www.sacpublichealth.net/

[Eden]

News tonight says 10 million doses of H1N1 will be available by next week.

[KnottedYet]

Our flu clinic is officially "out" of both seasonal and H1N1 vaccines.

However, each doctor has a reserve of both for the high-risk patients in their practices. Xeney, if your OB and pediatrician are out, can you contact your primary care physician and ask if they have any in reserve for high-risk folks? You being pregnant makes you qualify.

[SadieKate]

Snap is right. Each state and then each county has a distribution plan. The best place to start for info is with the Sacramento County Public Health Dept.

I'm in a high risk category and I've been told the same thing by my doctor (of course, for my own state and county . . . ).


Xeney -- check with your Public Health Department

http://www.sacpublichealth.net/

[KnottedYet]

Snap is right. Each state and then each county has a distribution plan. The best place to start for info is with the Sacramento County Public Health Dept.

I'm in a high risk category and I've been told the same thing by my doctor (of course, for my own state and county . . . ).

SadieKate is absolutely right, as always. She is indefatiguable in pursuit of factuality. Just because our PCP's all have reserves doesn't mean yours would. Please ignore my suggestion.

[xeney]

Our public health department is not starting shot clinics until mid November and they do not have any vaccine available at the moment. In Northern California most of it has gone directly to Kaiser, as I understand it. I'll go to the clinics once they start, but so far there have only been seasonal flu vaccine clinics (and I gather those supplies are all gone, too).

[Trek420]

It's a great idea to talk to your PCP to asses risks and your decision about the shot. Speaking of which I caught this on the news the other day.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Swine-Flu-Remedy-is-a-Natural-Thing-67229792.html

Yes, I think we all should aspire to eat a diet rich in nutrition, fruits and vegies, high in vitamins and nutrients. Even a car crash I was in as a youth I came out of it ok because I was fit. We all try to "eat right", I'm sure that helps in a lot of ways. But we should know the science/medical risks and rewards.

Thanks to all you TE medical type folk for chiming in with the "house call" :cool:

The debate about vaccination has been a long one. Here's a quote from Benjamin Franklin:

In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the small-pox, taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly, and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it; my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer should be chosen.

[PamNY]

I'm not sayin' who I work for but someone once mailed a bill to my employer addressed only with our slogan "no job is so urgent, no service so important that we can not afford to do our job safely" and it got here.

Ha! I used to work for them too; haven't thought of that slogan in years.

Pam

[shootingstar]

Well, this must be the new protocol in some organizations: no handshaking at all.

Happened today at meeting where I met 3 people. One of the individuals apologized ..several times in advance, and clearly told me because of H1N1 scare.

This was not a health care organization.

[Zen]

Well, this must be the new protocol in some organizations: no handshaking at all.


I think that's a fine idea. After all, you have no idea where my hands have been ;)

[Cataboo]

my dad has leukemia and taking chemo which has left him with virtually no immune system to speak of.

He's already gotten his shot, so I'm glad about that. I'm still sitting on the fence in regards to my taking the H1N1. I won't bother with the seasonal flu vaccine, as I just never do, but I'm a bit weary of the H1N1 simply because I would hate it to mutate like it did in 1918 and kill the young and healthy.

I also admit that, although this is a very rare side effect, I do worry about adverse effects of the shots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh5F5wP8RdU

With no immune system to speak of - the leukemia & the chemo, chances are the h1n1 shot is not going to be effective for your father and he didn't build up immunity to it.

If you have the chance to get the vaccine & the normal flu vaccine, I'd suggest you might want to do it - just because it'd suck if you gave him the flu. I know my father's oncologist recommended the entire family get it when he was on chemo.

[lph]

I think that's a fine idea. After all, you have no idea where my hands have been ;)

Not to mention that dude with the knuckle tattoos.

[shootingstar]

my dad has leukemia and taking chemo which has left him with virtually no immune system to speak of.

He's already gotten his shot, so I'm glad about that. I'm still sitting on the fence in regards to my taking the H1N1. I won't bother with the seasonal flu vaccine, as I just never do, but I'm a bit weary of the H1N1 simply because I would hate it to mutate like it did in 1918 and kill the young and healthy.

I'm very sorry about this, badger. I wasn't aware of this at all.

[Trek420]

I think that's a fine idea. After all, you have no idea where my hands have been ;)

I think we here in the West also adapt the tradition of bowing when we meet. Shows respect rather than being from a tradition of "look, I don't have a sword" and much more sanitary. :D

[KnottedYet]

I think we here in the West also adapt the tradition of bowing when we meet. Shows respect rather than being from a tradition of "look, I don't have a sword" and much more sanitary. :D

I see that often among the male doctors. Kind of an abbreviated bow, or an exaggerated nod. Female docs seem to all shake hands.

[indigoiis]

A second 12 year old, this one in Lincoln RI, died yesterday; they are not sure if she had Swine flu but she was at Hasbro with flu like symptoms.

[KnottedYet]

Hmmm... sore throat, runny nose, red dry eyes (I look like Dracula!), headache, fatigue... but no fever.

Whatever I've got, I'm staying home today.

[Trek420]

Good idea. Have some chicken soup :o

[OakLeaf]

Ruh roh. Feel better soon Knott.

[OakLeaf]

How can they NOT tell you how many sick days you get and how can they fire you for being sick?

From today's NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/business/03sick.html?ref=health&pagewanted=all):


According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 39 percent of private-sector workers do not receive paid sick leave....

A survey last year by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago found that 68 percent of those not eligible for paid sick days said they had gone to work with a contagious illness like the flu, while 53 percent eligible for paid sick days said they had done so.

That survey found that 11 percent of respondents said that they had lost a job for taking off for an illness for themselves or a family member, and 13 percent said they had been told they would be fired or suspended if they missed work because of personal or family illness.

[Biciclista]

hm, the flu shot IS a waste of time. People who work at my company were invited to the cafeteria for shots yesterday; so people went. THose that showed up discovered that there were no shots there; so they did NOT get their shots. (some problem with the supply, again)

[NbyNW]

Knot, hope you feel better soon!

It seems that it was incredibly ambitious to try to make so much vaccine available all at once. Here in Alberta the vaccination clinics were open to anyone last week, but I heard there were long waits. Today they have announced that for the time being priority will go to pregnant women, young children, and people under 65 with "chronic health conditions."

It's unclear how you prove that you have a chronic health condition. I'm unclear whether I qualify, with asthma and not yet having an Alberta Health Services card. They did let me get a seasonal flu shot a few weeks ago, but there wasn't a supply issue for that.

[badger]

With no immune system to speak of - the leukemia & the chemo, chances are the h1n1 shot is not going to be effective for your father and he didn't build up immunity to it.

If you have the chance to get the vaccine & the normal flu vaccine, I'd suggest you might want to do it - just because it'd suck if you gave him the flu. I know my father's oncologist recommended the entire family get it when he was on chemo.


My dad and I were both wondering about that, but his oncologist still told him to get it, so he did.

[Becky]

It's unclear how you prove that you have a chronic health condition. I'm unclear whether I qualify, with asthma and not yet having an Alberta Health Services card. They did let me get a seasonal flu shot a few weeks ago, but there wasn't a supply issue for that.

A letter from my GP or endocrinologist stating that I'm in their care for diabetes has been enough to get me a seasonal flu shot. I imagine that it depends a little on the jurisdiction.

[KnottedYet]

Harrumph. Was just on the phone a couple hours ago with my doc, telling 'em I didn't have a fever and wanted to be cleared to go back to work... and now I have a fever.

Poopy.

[Zen]

My dad and I were both wondering about that, but his oncologist still told him to get it, so he did.

He might should get a pneumonia shot.

[Trek420]

Harrumph. Was just on the phone a couple hours ago with my doc, telling 'em I didn't have a fever and wanted to be cleared to go back to work... and now I have a fever.

Poopy.

See, that's how you catch this thing: by talking to your PCP. :rolleyes:

[OakLeaf]

Really, I know that correlation is not causation.

So much so that two years ago, the last time my arthritis flared (lasting 6-8 months), I didn't even connect it to the flu shot I'd just had.

Now, the psychological pull becomes a bit stronger. :(

[KnottedYet]

Really, I know that correlation is not causation.

So much so that two years ago, the last time my arthritis flared (lasting 6-8 months), I didn't even connect it to the flu shot I'd just had.

Now, the psychological pull becomes a bit stronger. :(

That's why I get the flu mist. Two generations of my family have an arthritis-like reaction to the flu shots that lasts about a year. (best guess is it's related to an ingredient, not the virus itself) We all have goofy autoimmune issues, so who knows what is really the cause of the reaction.

I've never had a flu injection, so no idea if I'd have the same reaction or not. But the flu mist is no problem.

[OakLeaf]

That's why I get the flu mist. Two generations of my family have an arthritis-like reaction to the flu shots that lasts about a year. (best guess is it's related to an ingredient, not the virus itself) We all have goofy autoimmune issues, so who knows what is really the cause of the reaction.

I've never had a flu injection, so no idea if I'd have the same reaction or not. But the flu mist is no problem.


Oh, wonderful. I'd be eligible for the mist today if it were available to me (which it's not), but as of tomorrow I won't be any more. :mad::mad:

I wonder if a healthy 50-year-old can beg and wheedle her PCP for the mist.


ETA: but maybe since the H1N1 shot is non-adjuvanted in the USA, it won't aggravate what I already have? I can hope anyway.

[Jolt]

That's why I get the flu mist. Two generations of my family have an arthritis-like reaction to the flu shots that lasts about a year. (best guess is it's related to an ingredient, not the virus itself) We all have goofy autoimmune issues, so who knows what is really the cause of the reaction.

I've never had a flu injection, so no idea if I'd have the same reaction or not. But the flu mist is no problem.

Interesting. I have been hearing stuff lately about some of the ingredients in the injected vaccine (particularly the H1N1) and am not sure what to believe but it is starting to make me nervous. I already had the injected seasonal flu shot this year as I have for the past few years, but have been struggling with the decision to get or not get the H1N1 b/c I am a health care worker and would not want to give the bug to my patients but also don't want to end up with a problem from stuff in the vaccine. I think I'll get the nasal H1N1 vaccine since both will (supposedly) be available at the free clinic where I volunteer (they're giving it to health care workers first). Probably better immunity anyway--it's a live attenuated rather than an inactivated virus and it's using the same portal of entry that the actual flu would. Plus I won't have to deal with a sore arm (the flu shot for me is worse than the tetanus shot as far as that reaction goes) :p.

[badger]

He might should get a pneumonia shot.


yeah, he'll get one soon. He didn't want to get 3 shots (seasonal, H1N1, AND pneumonia). Good thing he didn't as he did have a fever after the 2 shots, who knows what the 3rd shot would've done.

A co-worker of mine got 2 shots in one day also and she also didn't do very well. Ended up taking 2 days off as she had a slight fever and was achey all over.

[Dogmama]

" Oh it's OK. It's just allergies..."

Grrrr

I'm one of those who cannot get a flu shot. I have lupus & my rheumatologist has forbidden it. Alive, killed or barely breathing - no flu shot. So I really get p.o'ed with people who show up places sick. I want to say, "Why do you think you're so important that you MUST be here??"

So, I'm just really careful. I carry hand sanitizer, I watch that I don't touch my face in public, wash my hands a lot, blah blah. I don't want to be one of those OCD people on Intervention though :p

[ny biker]

" Oh it's OK. It's just allergies..."

Grrrr

I'm one of those who cannot get a flu shot. I have lupus & my rheumatologist has forbidden it. Alive, killed or barely breathing - no flu shot. So I really get p.o'ed with people who show up places sick. I want to say, "Why do you think you're so important that you MUST be here??"

So, I'm just really careful. I carry hand sanitizer, I watch that I don't touch my face in public, wash my hands a lot, blah blah. I don't want to be one of those OCD people on Intervention though :p

I know what you mean. Someone I work with was home two days last week taking care of her sick children. Despite the fact that she can work from home whenever it's necessary, she came in to the office on Friday. And she hacked and coughed and sniffled the whole day. I had work to do with her but I stayed away instead. There was absolutely no reason why she couldn't have stayed home with her germs.

I'm at the point where I use hand sanitizer every time I go into the office kitchen. Lord only knows whose germs are on the refrigerator handle, microwave and drawer handles.

[Eden]

" Oh it's OK. It's just allergies..."


I do have fall/spring allergies and I cannot stay at home because of them... (or I'd be home throughout the month of Nov and Feb - April at the very least) I take 3 kinds of allergy medications and still cannot keep the symptoms completely at bay. I do however know the difference between being actually sick and my allergy symptoms and will stay away from people if I have viral symptoms. I will also have the regular flu shot and H1N1 as soon as it becomes available (I work in health care, with kids, so I'm on the 2nd tier of priority). I don't like to make people worry, but again, I can't stay quarantined for weeks at a time because of allergy symptoms... (sneezing, coughing, clear runny nose, itchy eyes, no fever)

[Becky]

+1 to Eden. My allergies are virtually year-round.

[Dogmama]

+1 to Eden. My allergies are virtually year-round.

I just developed allergies this year, at the ripe old age of 55. I'm really careful to make sure that my symptoms are allergies - as Eden said - no fever, clear fluids, no aches, etc.

But, when I worked in an office it was amazing how many people popped up with "it's just allergies" and their "allergies" seem to infect the rest of us. Must be a special strain of allergies..."office allergies" eh? :rolleyes:

[Becky]

I just developed allergies this year, at the ripe old age of 55. I'm really careful to make sure that my symptoms are allergies - as Eden said - no fever, clear fluids, no aches, etc.

But, when I worked in an office it was amazing how many people popped up with "it's just allergies" and their "allergies" seem to infect the rest of us. Must be a special strain of allergies..."office allergies" eh? :rolleyes:

Oh believe me, I work with a whole "just allergies that aren't really allergies" crew *grumbles* I completely understand.

[OakLeaf]

Interesting tidbit: Ohio State (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/11/09/FLUTRENDS.ART_ART_11-09-09_A1_6QFK85Q.html?sid=101) infectious disease specialists are finding that fever doesn't always accompany H1N1 flu.

I guess the lesson is that if you're sick enough to have the flu, but don't have a fever, don't assume it isn't the flu... :(

[KnottedYet]

Interesting tidbit: Ohio State (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/11/09/FLUTRENDS.ART_ART_11-09-09_A1_6QFK85Q.html?sid=101) infectious disease specialists are finding that fever doesn't always accompany H1N1 flu.

I guess the lesson is that if you're sick enough to have the flu, but don't have a fever, don't assume it isn't the flu... :(

I resemble that remark... my temp only went up a couple degrees, but I didn't feel so groovy and I slept for 2 days. Didn't go back to work until I was cleared by my doc anyway.

Basic rule of thumb seems to be: if you feel sick, stay home!

[Pedal Wench]

So after the fever breaks and the aches go away, how long until I can go back to work?

[smilingcat]

I wish I could stay home when I'm sick... :( Around here, it's like badge of honor to come in and infecf everyone else. And if you don't, you're not dedicated to your work.

totally makes sense :eek: :rolleyes:

But that's the way my office is. Same with my previous jobs too. If you come in sick to get the job done then you get "atta boy/girl". and another stripy on your shoulder.

whooey. yeah I've been achy since last week. took last Tuesday off. been in a fog all last week but I'M HERE... Achy joints. ride my bike r u kidding???

Time to go home and make my self some cranberry sauce. good on a toast, good by itself. just plain good and so refreshing when you are not feeling well. Requires a food processor.

pound of fresh cranberries
zest of one orange
juice of one orange

process all in a food processor. add sugar to your taste and mix well. chill for about an hour. yummy desert. cooking not required. Very simple very clean and straight forward.

[shootingstar]

Ok, I'm in a black humour mood. Please if you view this video, focus on the parody of some famous international singers, instead of just the disease.

http://www.youtube.com/user/CBCtv#p/a

(Do keep in mind, that some of my family members are direct health care workers, vacinnated for H1N1, so i realize about its seriousness.)

Note: 22 Minutes is a long-playing, popular comedy show on current issues, politics,etc.

[Possegal]

So after the fever breaks and the aches go away, how long until I can go back to work?

24 hrs of no fever and then you are fine to go back. Now, whether you feel up for it, that's another story.

[KnottedYet]

Just found out my very big strong healthy young cousin ended up in intensive care from the swine flu.

He's out now and home.

Not a nice virus!

[OakLeaf]

Yikes. Glad he's recovering. Glad you are, too.

I just found out that the FDA's Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting Service uses an invalid security certificate. Now, that's not a big deal to individuals who know that the minute they submit an insurance claim, their entire medical history becomes available to basically anyone who wants to exploit it... but it's likely to deter a lot of individuals who are bombarded with warnings about computer security on TV, but who don't receive the equivalent warnings about health information security.

More importantly, it should deter every health care provider from filling out the form electronically, lest all their records be compromised.

Which means that to file an adverse event report, a health care practice has to physically fill out a piece of paper, probably the last thing they want to do in their busy environment. Which has got to be a big reason right there why so few adverse events are ever reported at all... :mad::mad:

And all because the FDA can't be bothered to use an internet security provider that's recognized by the major browsers.

[Selkie]

Yikes. Glad he's recovering. Glad you are, too.

I just found out that the FDA's Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting Service uses an invalid security certificate. Now, that's not a big deal to individuals who know that the minute they submit an insurance claim, their entire medical history becomes available to basically anyone who wants to exploit it... but it's likely to deter a lot of individuals who are bombarded with warnings about computer security on TV, but who don't receive the equivalent warnings about health information security.

More importantly, it should deter every health care provider from filling out the form electronically, lest all their records be compromised.

Which means that to file an adverse event report, a health care practice has to physically fill out a piece of paper, probably the last thing they want to do in their busy environment. Which has got to be a big reason right there why so few adverse events are ever reported at all... :mad::mad:

And all because the FDA can't be bothered to use an internet security provider that's recognized by the major browsers.

Sounds like Govt contracting at its best (sarcasm intended).

I ended up spending some time in the ER yesterday (coworker had to go by ambulance, so I went to stay w/her til her son arrived). It was a H1N1 stew pot. I stood next to the door, well away from the masked patients in the waiting area, and am hoping I didn't catch anything. Don't worry, I'll stay home if I end up coming down with it.

[ny biker]

I just got my shot.

I knew 2 weeks ago that my gynecologist had them but only for pregnant patients. I was going to call and ask if they would give one to me since I have asthma, but decided it would be wrong to take a vaccination away from a pregnant woman (two lives potentially at stake vs. one) so I didn't call his office. And then I assumed he had run out since no one else around here seemed to have any.

This morning I decided to call his office just for funsies, and they have the shots available so I went at lunchtime and got one.

It looks like the local clinics are starting up again too, but I'm glad I won't have to get up early and wait in line for one of those.

[Dogmama]

I wish I could stay home when I'm sick... :( Around here, it's like badge of honor to come in and infecf everyone else. And if you don't, you're not dedicated to your work.

That's the way my old office was. With the added game where somebody tells you that you should go home. You smile wistfully & croak out, "Oh no, I can't. I have so much to do..."

As you said - another little stripe for your sleeve.

When I took quite a bit of time off to care for my husband (diagnosed with advanced colon cancer) I was marked down on my annual evaluation because I wasn't always available. Don't miss that job one bit.

[Jolt]

Just got vaccinated tonight (I took the nasal spray vaccine). The free clinic where I volunteer had the vaccine for the health care workers--seeing as we'll probably get exposed from patients coming in with H1N1.

[ny biker]

So I'm sitting here trying to figure out why my shoulder is sore; did I overdo it at the gym last night??

Then the light bulb comes on. It's the flu shot, dummy. :D

[OakLeaf]

When I had my shot (in the delt, as normal), the nurse warned me that I might be sore doing bicep curls. She said that her delts don't bother her at all after a shot, but when she works her biceps, watch out.

[xeney]

So I'm sitting here trying to figure out why my shoulder is sore; did I overdo it at the gym last night??

Then the light bulb comes on. It's the flu shot, dummy.

Me too! I got both the seasonal and the h1n1 today, one in each arm, and I keep wondering why I'm so sore. And then I remember.

I'm taking my two-year-old to a community clinic on Monday to get her first round of the h1n1 mist.

[Reesha]

My take, I don't think there's any magic bullet.

Being religious about hand-washing and hand sanitizer, not touching any public surfaces with my bare hands if I can help it, and not touching my eyes or nose (which pretty much goes by the wayside on the bike, see the thread about vasomotor rhinitis :rolleyes:).

Sunshine and fresh air. (Vitamin D and staying out of environments where the virus replicates easily, for those who believe that if the Mayo Clinic can't explain something, it can't be true. But my personal opinion is that it would be surprising if there weren't more factors at work there.)

Think really hard about signing up for any races until after the flu season peaks. Light exertion is good, the sustained hard efforts required for training suppress the immune system. This is probably the toughest one for most people here. :(

On the "it can't hurt" front, I've started taking elderberry extract. I actually started it after I caught my second cold this fall (training for two big events :rolleyes:), and the cold vanished almost immediately. Now... that's just as likely because it was only a slight mutation from the first cold I had and my immune system was already on top of it... but as I said, it can't hurt, and it's possible it was why I got over the cold so quickly.

Plenty of fluids and foam roller work. I don't really have any idea of how the fascia and the immune system are connected, but I know they are connected, and anyway, it's good for me on a strictly physical level (in the sense of "physical medicine" physical).


(And, as I said before, if it had been completely up to me, I'd have got the H1N1 vaccine and skipped the seasonal flu shot.)

And the best weapon of all: SLEEEEEEP. I'm one of the few teachers at school that never gets sick and it's because I get at least 8 hours per night. The contrast between the other 8th grade teacher and I is stark-- she has a nightowl chef boyfriend and gets 6 or 7 hours per night and is sick often. I used to be more susceptible to illness when I shortchanged myself on sleep as well. I feel like I've discovered some special secret or something-- I feel great every day :o

[Eden]

AAAAAA - I got my H1N1 vaccination yesterday and I woke up looking like this!
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/thumb/1/14/Miss-piggy-shoulder.jpg/300px-Miss-piggy-shoulder.jpg

[Zen]

Sexy!

[Grog]

Love the pink gloves, Eden.

[uk elephant]

I just read through this thread now, and I'm taking your advice. I'm keeping my germs at home. I don't think I have the flu (no aching or fever), but a nasty chest cold is not nice to spread around either. And I have a job where I can work from home if necessary, at least on days when I'm not lecturing (like today). Although academia is definitely another place where you seem to get kudos for turning up despite any illness. And with a lot of hacking and sniffling students there's a lot of illness going around!

I'm doing what I can to recover quickly so I'm back on form for Monday morning's lecture (hot soup, hot tea with honey, rest, any other suggestions?). I did get offered the flu jabs when I went in for my another appointment with the nurse last week, but because of the sore throat the wouldn't give it right away. I am already on their at-risk list (asthma, immunosuppressants) and will get the jab as soon as I'm well enough to do so. So I'm booked in for both jabs next week. another reason to shake this cold first. Better make another cup of tea...

[Selkie]

UK - my dear departed dad's Irish cure: whiskey, lemonade and honey. Drink it down and go to bed. Works like a champ.

[Eden]

seriously though - I have now had both seasonal and H1N1 (work in a children's hospital, and am on the priority list because of that) and I haven't had any untoward side effects. The seasonal shot did give me a sore arm for a day or so, but H1N1 didn't even do that.

[OakLeaf]

Feel better soon UKE.

You might try black elderberry extract. As I said, it could just as easily have been coincidence with me, but it was a pretty dramatic recovery. (Usually, if I have a mild case of something, it means that I just don't get that sick; with this last cold, I was as sick as I'd been with the previous one, then recovered suddenly within a day of starting the elderberry.)

[Kathi]

UK - my dear departed dad's Irish cure: whiskey, lemonade and honey. Drink it down and go to bed. Works like a champ.

The father of a 4th grader gave that "remedy" to her for a cold. Problem was, she brought it to school and was passing it around to her classmates! :eek:
I smelled the bottle, questioned her and dad got called into the principal's office. :)

[shootingstar]

I smelled the bottle, questioned her and dad got called into the principal's office. :)

:) How times change. Wondered if our Gr. 10 math teacher was ever warned/counselled for his alcoholic tendencies. During lunch hr., over 15 of us had lunch in his classroom and unsurprisingly, indulged in harmless horseplay. Someone found a half empty whiskey bottle in his top desk drawer. The drawer was unlocked. It confirmed some truth to perpetual jokes amongst students about his exceptionally florid/red face..nearly all the time during teaching time.
________________________________________________________
Haven't got H1N1 shot --yet. I don't see myself as a top priority group. My partner is getting his next week. He was asked why at this time. He said he had mild asthma. He is 66 but otherwise healthy.

Just earlier this week, it was reported in the news, the chief medical officer for the province of British Columbia indicated he had not yet been vaccinated for H1N1. Guess, his job is more paper-oriented accounts for his personal decision? But things change.

My sister-doc got vaccinated 2 wks. ago for H1N11. She is 5+ months pregnant and still working with patients. Her hubby and 20 month-old daughter got vaccinated last wk.

[IFjane]

I no longer teach but work in administration, yet I am in and out of classrooms all the time with our program. I have not had the shot because of the shortage of the vaccine. We have not even been able to vaccinate all our children! So far the Health Dept. has only gotten enough vaccine to have clinics at three of our eight schools. Children and staff have been sick with what we assume is H1N1 (because of the symptoms), though only a few cases have been confirmed. The waiting continues and meanwhile, we feel like we are going to get it at some point simply because we are surrounded by it.

[badger]

I'm surprised more people don't use the neti pot or just plain irrigate the nasal passage. In the fall/winter months I usually use the neti pot 2-3 times a week, and when I feel run down, every day. Even when I get sick, I irrigate and the colds never seem to last very long.

My immuno-suppressed dad swears by it, too.

[Tuckervill]

+1 on the neti pot.

[Kathi]

The vaccine is still not available for me, asthmatic. However, news channels are reporting that the H1N1 is leveling off in Colorado.

I'm also a saline rinse user. My allergist recommended it and specified the Neil Med brand which uses a bottle not a pot.

[OakLeaf]

The plastic smell inside that NeilMed squeeze bottle is awful. And it scares me a little. I think I washed mine 5-6 times and let it sit open for two weeks before I used it.

I think there are pros and cons to each method - the main thing that bothers me with a traditional neti pot is that it sometimes drives infected goop into my middle ears. Not good. The squeeze bottle doesn't have that problem - but doesn't do as good a job cleaning either.

[Kathi]

Hmmm, just checked my bottle and no smell. It has been used quite a bit and after each use I wash it with a tiny drop of Dawn.

I also have the NeilMed Neti Pot which I have not used and it does have a slight plastic odor. Guess the odor goes away with time.

[Trek420]

Alrighty then, we have 4 managers in my department if you don't count the attendance manager and whatever it is M does. We get on just fine without them from time to time.

My manager, A was on vacation Monday, W comes down with the flu. So what does my bosses boss do? He calls W back into the office where he's the walking wounded wandering around, sick as a dog.

I don't know if he has seasonal or swine and I don't care. Stay home. Knowing W I don't think he felt had the choice. :mad:

[snapdragen]

Got my H1N1 shot today -- now I'm sportin' a shiny gold star on my employee badge. :rolleyes:

[lph]

Is that sort of like a sign saying "I'm huggable again"? ;)

[Dogmama]

Got my H1N1 shot today -- now I'm sportin' a shiny gold star on my employee badge. :rolleyes:

Hope they remember this at annual review time!

I'm getting it. Feel like hammered crap. The only thing I absolutely need is cat food & I'm going to have DH pick that up. Otherwise, I have Ted Kennedy's memoirs to keep me company - oh - and that 85 pound German Shepherd who will be heartbroken that we don't do our usual walk-play-ball routine.

See, I'm a good doo-bee. Where's my atta-girl? :p

Just a note on my experience. The day before I started to feel bad, I didn't have the usual spark on the bike. It was weird - normal exertion felt really hard. I had zero symptoms otherwise. Don't know if that was the beginning but I'm glad I honored my body & took a leisurely ride.

[KnottedYet]

Ooh, everybody who got it, get better soon! Watch the cough. If it seems to linger, and if it gets worse call your doc. Lung goobers after the swine flu are sending folks to the hospital.

Here's a link with bad words in it. (but it's a very funny link) If you cannot handle the kinds of words used by the average pre-schooler on the playground, do not click the link! (also, if you do not like sarcasm you would be best served not to click the link.) http://www.cafemom.com/journals/read/1528527/Flu_Vaccine_12_dumbass_reasons_to_not_get_it

[Eden]

<snort> errr - aaa oink....

That was pretty funny, though generally sarcasm tends to make people write you off more than change their minds (so I'd suggest reading it only if you already believe vaccination is a good thing)

As for me, I've had both now and I've not contracted the flu, haven't developed any strange neurological conditions, haven't started hearing AM radio through my molars, and haven't noticed any men in black following me around. (one of the MAs in the clinic really does seem to believe that the epidemic is made up and the government is planting RFIDs...... umm I've had my cats chipped and its a *big* needle...)

As far as I know H1N1 is still going strong around here. Before the vaccine was available apparently it really decimated our residents. They all go on a retreat in October - one of them took the virus too and they all ended up with it... As far as I know only one of our clinic's Docs caught it before the vaccinations, which is pretty good as ENTs are kind of at high risk because of the procedures that they do.

[ny biker]

"That would make a good episode of CSI." :D

He makes an excellent point about protecting yourself from the zombie apocalypse.

[snapdragen]

I KNEW IT!!!!!

" The government puts tracking nanobots in the vaccine as well as RFID chips as part of the mark of the beast, and the vaccine doesn't work since it is part of a big government sponsored conspiracy to line the pockets of big pharma and inject the American sheeple with exotic new infections in an attempt to control population growth and help usher in a New World Order"

Still not having any after-effects from my H1N1 shot, I swear.....

[Resi]

I got my first flu shot in my life and I got sick... I know it could happen, but I get sick once a year anyway... so why... I asked myself. Next year I will not do this again...

This morning I went to the gym for the spin class, the instructor mentioned...oh by the way I don't feel goot today I am sick... whaaaat! I guess I have to stay away from gym LOL

[Dogmama]

Snap - don't try to pass that picture off as you. There isn't a zipper scar on his neck!!

[snapdragen]

Snap - don't try to pass that picture off as you. There isn't a zipper scar on his neck!!

Not to mention my eyebrows aren't quite that fuzzy.....:D

[badger]

so I tagged along with a couple of co-workers to the vaccination clinic. I still wasn't sure if I should get it or not. Talked to the nurse, and she basically said it's a measured risk either way you look at it. Just because I'm healthy doesn't mean I won't get sick, and especially with my dad in such an immune compromised state she said it would be wise. I even ended up getting the seasonal flu shot which I wasn't going to get.

In retrospect, I regret getting them. I do believe that I would've been fine without them, and this will likely be the very last time I'll get a flu shot.

p.s. my H1N1 arm is SOOO sore, the seasonal flu arm's not nearly as bad.

[ny biker]

so I tagged along with a couple of co-workers to the vaccination clinic. I still wasn't sure if I should get it or not. Talked to the nurse, and she basically said it's a measured risk either way you look at it. Just because I'm healthy doesn't mean I won't get sick, and especially with my dad in such an immune compromised state she said it would be wise. I even ended up getting the seasonal flu shot which I wasn't going to get.

In retrospect, I regret getting them. I do believe that I would've been fine without them, and this will likely be the very last time I'll get a flu shot.

p.s. my H1N1 arm is SOOO sore, the seasonal flu arm's not nearly as bad.


I don't understand. Why do you regret getting them?

[Dogmama]

s
In retrospect, I regret getting them. I do believe that I would've been fine without them, and this will likely be the very last time I'll get a flu shot.



Why?

I've been sick for almost a week with no end in sight. VERY unusual for me. I'm usually 2-3 days down & then I rise like a Phoenix from the ashes. I even went to my doctor (another first) who said I was getting a secondary sinus infection & rx'd antibiotics (which I very rarely take.)

Thanksgiving will be a bust - I don't want to pass this on to anybody. The cough is brutal, the headache is migraine proportions (and throbs after coughing.) This flu laughs at OTC remedies - I get maybe 1-2 hours of partial relief. Doc said that isn't unusual either. I look like I've been crying for days because my eyes are so swollen.

Trust me. You don't want this. Massage your arm, put ice on it & get on your bike. Take a ride for me, please!

Oh - that's another thing. Our weather? 75 degrees, clear, sunny & no wind. :mad::mad::mad:

[bmccasland]

Got my H1N1 shot at the office yesterday, and like an idiot I gave them my arm with the sore shoulder attached. Fortunately this morning I don't have more than the usual amount of stiffness.

Baby Sister had a bonefied case of H1N1 - and was sick enough to be threatened with hospilization (she has underlying medical issues). Normally she's in the "no flu shot" bandwagon - but after having piggie flu, her advice was "get the shot."

[KnottedYet]

I do wish I'd been able to get the vaccine before I caught the piggie flu. (I was scheduled to get the vaccine the next week... oops, too late!)

My bout was pretty mild, only out for two days. But that's 2 days of vacation time GONE. It took about 2 weeks for the sore throat and fatigue to go away, and about 4 days for the vampire eyes to go away. I was real purty.

I'd rather have got the vaccine, even though I was lucky enough to get the "piglet" version of the flu.

[Tuckervill]

My 4-1/2 yo grandson was admitted to the hospital today. He got the swine flu about 5 days ago, and was on Tamiflu, but today his fever spiked up to 105.3, and he has a high white blood cell count. Lungs are clear. Since he was a preemie (30 weeks), the lungs thing is really good news. They don't know what the infection is, though. They are putting him on IV antibiotics, and only going to keep him for one night for observation (crossing fingers that no hospital germs take a hitchhike in his little body).

It's also sad because his mother is nursing his 8 mo baby brother, and the baby is not allowed in the hospital (good idea). But that means she and my son are splitting their time around based on the baby brother, and big brother may not like that his mama has to leave when he's feeling so poorly.

Karen

[OakLeaf]

Interesting reading (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMp0911047?query=TOC), if a bit patronizing in a doctor-ish sort of way :rolleyes:

[salsabike]

It is interesting, and I didn't find it patronizing at all. It sounded like a doctor trying to do a good job and understand how to do better.

[Kano]

Had the "ordinary" flu one year, got it in the first week of December.

It was MARCH before all the secondary crap cleared out completely. MOST of that time I spent doing next to nothing.

I get a flu shot every winter since then. Don't want any of it ever again!

I don't know from the swine flu, don't want to find out first hand about it. If they ever get around to letting healthy middle aged women get the darned thing, I'll get the shot.

Karen in Boise

[badger]

I guess I regretted getting them because of listening to the "no-shot" arguments and the very rare but scary side effects (mainly of that poor girl who's not normal unless she runs or walks backwards).

I won't know if I would have gotten it or not, but you guys are right that I would have regretted NOT getting the shot if I did end up getting the H1N1.

But it's all water under the bridge, whether I got it or not so I should just focus on other things!

Hope your grandson's going to have a speedy recovery, Karen!

[Selkie]

Dogmama - That sounds horrible. I hope you feel better soon...

The shot is available to only those in high-risk groups (at work, where I get my flu shots--they are free, well, not free but free to employees ;)). If they get enough to vaccinate the rest of us, I'm seriously reconsidering and thinking about getting it.

[Dogmama]

My 4-1/2 yo grandson was admitted to the hospital today. He got the swine flu about 5 days ago, and was on Tamiflu, but today his fever spiked up to 105.3, and he has a high white blood cell count.

Karen, I'm so sorry! Please keep us posted!

[Tuckervill]

Thanks...he's staying at least another night and possibly 7 days total for IV antibiotics. We'll know tomorrow. He has a streptococcal infection in his bloodstream, one of those resistant ones. We spoke on the phone this morning and he sounded chipper, but said the hospital was "stupid wupid". lol. So, he's much better than yesterday and on the mend, but really bored, tied to the bed, and there's no Thomas the Tank Engine on the tv. But if he's annoyed that means he's getting better. whew.

Karen

[OakLeaf]

Thanks for the update Tuck. Keeping him in my thoughts and hoping he feels better soon.

[Eden]

I guess I regretted getting them because of listening to the "no-shot" arguments and the very rare but scary side effects (mainly of that poor girl who's not normal unless she runs or walks backwards).

There definitely are rare side effects (Gilliaume Barr), but what happened to that girl very likely has nothing to do with the flu shot..... yeah her symptoms may have developed around the time of the vaccination, but that does not mean the the two had any correlation.....

[Selkie]

Sounds like he's on the mend, Tuck! That's great news.

[salsabike]

Another interesting article that goes a little deeper into research about who gets sickest---

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/27/opinion/27groopman.html

[shootingstar]

Another interesting article that goes a little deeper into research about who gets sickest---

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/27/opinion/27groopman.html


Interesting stuff.

[Dogmama]

Another interesting article that goes a little deeper into research about who gets sickest---

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/27/opinion/27groopman.html

So I can put my leeches back?