down hill scardy pants

[hipmama]

Is anyone else afraid going downhill? I am. I get major anxiety when I get speeding down and find my arms burning from pumping brakes. I feel like I'm going to flip over or topple sideways or something is going to run out in front of me and flip me over.
What will help? I know I need more confidence, and that will come with time. I'm not worried really when I'm on the MTB, but the roadie tires...

[Zen]

No, you're the only one ;) :D
see this (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=13759&highlight=downhill+descents+speed+fear)
and
this (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=27747&highlight=downhill+descents+speed+fear)

I am the (self-proclaimed) Queen of the Downhill Weenies

[sweetpotatopie]

I have the same problem. I am new to cycling and I get very nervous going downhill. I'm frantically scanning the ground and convinced I'm going to hit a pebble and go flying towards the ground. :(

I made myself go up and down one hill over and over again the other day. It seemed to help a LITTLE, as I didn't brake the whole time after a few . . . but I am still a worry-wart about it.

Any tips on how to overcome this fear?

[Cataboo]

I am the (self-proclaimed) Queen of the Downhill Weenies

I will attest that her brakes honk all the way down hills :D

[Cataboo]

I have the same problem. I am new to cycling and I get very nervous going downhill. I'm frantically scanning the ground and convinced I'm going to hit a pebble and go flying towards the ground. :(

I made myself go up and down one hill over and over again the other day. It seemed to help a LITTLE, as I didn't brake the whole time after a few . . . but I am still a worry-wart about it.

Any tips on how to overcome this fear?

I sort of base it on how curvy the road is, how well I know the road, and what's at the bottom of the road... I just let the bike go down hills that last year I rode my brakes all the way down... And I pedal down some hills that I know there's a big uphill at the end...

If the road is wet and at all curvy, I use my brakes going down the hill... If there's leaves or any chance that I'm going to skid out... I use my brakes. Before I go down curvy hills, I will usually pause and let any traffic behind me go ahead - because if I need to take a turn wide, I don't want to worry about cars in the way.

When you're riding - don't look at the ground directly in front of you - look a bit ahead, so that if there's something in the road you have time to react.

[Biciclista]

really, repetition is the only remedy I know.

[Photoflygirl]

I've only gone 22.something down a small hill...can't imagine going down a bigger/steeper one going close to 30! It sounds exhilirating, but terrifying at the same time.

[MartianDestiny]

My brakes all get a good solid workout! You are not alone. Confidence (miles) in my bike helps, as does repetition of the same hill (you know what's coming and begin to get more comfortable). I'll still never be a 50mph downhill person, and that's ok!

[PamNY]

I'm very cautious going down even small hills. In fact, small hills are all I have to work with. No remedies to offer, but I don't think you are alone!

Pam

[HoosierGiant]

really, repetition is the only remedy I know.

+1!! That and plenty of miles so handling skills become second nature, leading to increased confidence. ('Cuz screaming down a hill at 40 mph is too much fun to miss out on, IMO!)

[smilingcat]

Are you looking directly in front of your wheel when you are going down? If so, maybe this is the reason why its so scary because you can't react to something on the road or the road itself when it comes into your field of view.

At 20MPH, I may be looking 100 feet in front. By the time, I'm going 40MPH downhill, I will be looking 300 feet or more ahead. Absolutely no reason to be looking right in front of your wheel! When you are riding on the flat, I don't think you are looking directly in front of your wheel. Chances are pretty good that you are looking way ahead 100 feet maybe 500 feet ahead.

If I were to go downhill at 40MPH and look at a spot directly in front of my wheel, I'll be a nervous wreck too.

At higher speed, you need to look further ahead and start reacting to the condition (pot holes, bumps, debris on the road) before you get to there.

Relax and try to enjoy the reward of climbing hills, that is going downhill ;).

[alpinerabbit]

A clinic has done wonders for my downhill confidence, as it is quite hard to explain (attempts in the threads Zen linked?)

[OakLeaf]

What Smilingcat said. Practice picking your eyes up. I have a friend whose mantra on the motorcycle is "look up 10°." Honestly if you're looking at your front wheel, you should be looking up more like 45°. But you get the picture. Looking at the ground is a sure way to wind up on it. (Just as target fixating on any obstacle - tree, car, lamp post, etc. - is a sure way to wind up hitting it.)

I'm told that mountain biking is a great way to improve your descending skills and learn to "look where you want to go" (not just descending, but all the time).

[hipmama]

I do look ahead, I'm a super scanner so that's not a problem. I guess practice will be the key. I have three big ones near me, one tall, steep winding one, one tall and insane steep, and one long with a little bend, I'm not too bad on the last one.
Every time I wobble I swear I'm going to go down. I don't even fall much on my bike, so it's not like I'm accident prone. I went clipless last month and had one fall, from a dead stop, and since have navigated path, street, and city riding with no problems.

[Thorn]

What they all said...repitition and looking ahead and where you want to go.

I'm getting better. I can handle about 35mph if I know the road and/or can see that the road surface is in good condition. Otherwise, I ride the brakes and stand in awe at the pros in the peleton that travel those speeds with other riders near by. [[Shudder]]

I rode on a trip with a woman who skewed to being one of the slowest riders in the group, if not the slowest. That is, until we came down the mountain pass. Nearly everyone rode their brakes on the way down, but not her--she never hit the brakes once. As a former downhill skier she had no fear and blew us all away.

I'm convinced it is all perception--if you think it is too fast, it is; if you think it is fun, it will be. I'm still working on the latter.

[redrhodie]

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=7729

That was my first thread topic! I almost crashed going down a hill, and was really freaked by it. I just reread the thread, and the advice that really helped, other than using both brakes, was Geones' butt back in the saddle comment. There's lots of great downhill advice in that one!

If you feel like you're going to topple over, I'm wondering if you're weight is correctly distributed? Are you comfortable on your bike other than going downhill? Do you have wrist numbness or neck pain? I'm thinking it may not be a phobia--maybe it's a bike fit issue.

[hipmama]

If you feel like you're going to topple over, I'm wondering if you're weight is correctly distributed? Are you comfortable on your bike other than going downhill? Do you have wrist numbness or neck pain? I'm thinking it may not be a phobia--maybe it's a bike fit issue.

Good questions- I do sometimes go into quick stop position- *** back on the saddle. I am comfortable on my bike size wise- I get hand numbness at times but not until I hit about 40 miles, if I forget to take breaks. Just my left hand, which is odd.
I have personal control issues which is what I think it boils down to-as in I need to be in charge of things and letting gravity take over is scary- there is a "letting go" that needs to happen that I struggle with.

[indigoiis]

I LOVE flying down hills, and I think it's because I had a big hill I used to fly down as a kid on my wee 1 speed.

I get out of the saddle, stretch my legs so that my rear end is out over the back of the saddle, my arms are long, my head is kind of between my shoulders, and I look where I want the bike to go.

It also helps to say, "WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!"

[Grog]

Climb up a long, medium-steep hill. Turn around.

Hands in the drops, fingers loosely wrapped around the handlebars and just sitting, relaxed, on the levers. (Very important to be in the drops. I get the anxiety you describe if on the hoods.)

Pedals level (gives you much more stability).

Yes, bum back.

Glide down effortlessly, smile like a madwoman.

Say: "Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"

Yes, relaxing is key. But you should only relax if you've got good technique, especially the smiling part. :)

[hipmama]

indigoiis is a show off :p

[redrhodie]

indigoiis is a show off :p

I actually got way better at descending watching indigoiis (IRL). She's fearless going down hill, and always drops me like a hot potato!

[smilingcat]

bike going wobbly? sounds like shimmying (sp). Typically happens at high speed and on corners. To stop the bike from shimmying, stop pedalling and press both legs onto the top tube of the bike. The legs act as a damper and will smooth out the shimmy.

Make sure your head set is on tight, see that the wheels are true..

As someone said, put your weight toward the back when you have to hit the brake. This will keep you from getting the feeling of doing the endo (end over -- flipping over the handle bar).

Practice riding behind an experience rider to develop your confidence.

[indigoiis]

I actually got way better at descending watching indigoiis (IRL). She's fearless going down hill, and always drops me like a hot potato!

The exception being on hills with hairpin turns (like the one over at Shannock Hill Road.) I do take it easy on short steepies. I don't trust the SUV drivers on cell phones who seem to perpetually lurk middle-of-the-curve on those roads. But I still get in the "stance", just hold my body up a little more to catch the wind to keep me slower.

[ny biker]

In my experience, once you've spent a summer getting over your fear of going down hills on inline skates, you lose most of your fear going down them on a bike.

The most important advice I got from skating was: don't forget to breathe.

[tctrek]

I hate going up the hills, but LOVE going down them. I've hit 40 mph on a few. The only hills that really scare me are curvy ones where I don't know what's around the curve -- is there a car backing out of a driveway, a stop sign, a big dog, a pothole? Until I ride it a few times, I use my brakes on the curves. But once I can see ahead of my, I get as aerobic as possible and let it fly -- sometimes that gets me half-way up the next hill and that means less climbing !:D

[OakLeaf]

This seems like a good time to insert the lecture again. ;)

Being familiar with a hill means you know where the line goes - camber, turn radii, cracks and potholes, etc.

It does NOT tell you whether there is an obstacle or a slippery surface around the next blind curve, or whether a deer or groundhog is about to dart across the road.

If you notice yourself getting a lot faster as you become familiar with a hill, search your soul as to whether you could really stop or swerve in time if there was oil or gravel just around the turn, or whether (in the classic Motorcyclist example) one lane was blocked by a refrigerator, and the other by the pick-up truck that just dropped it.

The limit on your speed should always be your sight distance and your braking and swerving skills. Work on those skills and enjoy those descents! (I love them! :D but I know I can be a little over-bold and ought to be doing more skills drills. :o)

[Reesha]

I LOVE flying down hills, and I think it's because I had a big hill I used to fly down as a kid on my wee 1 speed.

I get out of the saddle, stretch my legs so that my rear end is out over the back of the saddle, my arms are long, my head is kind of between my shoulders, and I look where I want the bike to go.

It also helps to say, "WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!"

I third this!!!!

The first big hills I ever went down brakeless I was instructed to go "waaaahoooooooooo!" and it totally worked as if screaming was the fear being squeezed out of me as I breezed downward.

I'm still afraid though, particularly when it's an unfamiliar hill, oddly textured asphalt, busy with cars or particularly curvy and I can't see the bottom.

[tctrek]

This seems like a good time to insert the lecture again. ;)

Being familiar with a hill means you know where the line goes - camber, turn radii, cracks and potholes, etc.

It does NOT tell you whether there is an obstacle or a slippery surface around the next blind curve, or whether a deer or groundhog is about to dart across the road.

If you notice yourself getting a lot faster as you become familiar with a hill, search your soul as to whether you could really stop or swerve in time if there was oil or gravel just around the turn, or whether (in the classic Motorcyclist example) one lane was blocked by a refrigerator, and the other by the pick-up truck that just dropped it.

The limit on your speed should always be your sight distance and your braking and swerving skills. Work on those skills and enjoy those descents! (I love them! :D but I know I can be a little over-bold and ought to be doing more skills drills. :o)

Well said. We always need to have a balance of skill and awareness mixed with the sheer joy of downhill.

[Kelly728]

<~~Joins the scaredy cat hill club

I have always been like this. I remember back when I was 7 or 8, riding out the neighborhood on my bike. There was this "large" hill one street over and I braked the whole way down. It wasn't because of a fall, I'm just extremely timid and have difficulty being fearless.:confused:

[Reesha]

I don't know what happened to me-- as a child, I would bomb down hills with no helmet and then skid out as soon as I hit the bottom to see how long of a line I could make. Lived on a dirt road that was a giant hill!

Methinks common sense set in with age :p

[hipmama]

Oh yes, as a kid I flew down the hills, even in college when I lived in the mountains I was fearless. I think it's something about being a mom now... there's this whole different respect for my life needing to be preserved.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Personally, I would call the original poster "Down hill SMARTY pants" instead of "down hill scardy pants".
I was terrified of downhills when i started biking- very very cautious.
But glad I was! Now I have much more skill and confidence.
I can't believe some of the dinky hills I used to brake on and be terrified of. But HEY, I was SAFE and I slowly gained confidence without ever being reckless or taking chances. Lets not confuse common sense with being 'chicken'. ;)

[Crankin]

Yeah, and I just don't get the "line" thing. How do you know what your "line" is? Is there some magical secret?
I can get up to 30+ or so if it's straight, but if I have to turn, forget it. I still feel like I have no control of the bike and I will find myself not where I want to be. Yes, I look ahead, lean in the direction of the turn, put the leg down, etc. It is not my bike, it's me... I will be over on the wrong side of the road if I start going over 25 on a right hand turn. I do better with lefts for some reason. Then there's the fear. Since I have been riding for almost ten years, I have given up. It's actually getting worse. On group rides I am the only one who loses time on the descents.

[OakLeaf]

Yeah, and I just don't get the "line" thing. How do you know what your "line" is? Is there some magical secret?

Your line is whatever line you take.

You can learn faster lines through familiarity with a corner. Some corners have only one fast line. Some have several ways that you can set yourself up for the next corner. Most corners have a single apex (the point where you get closest to the inside); some are double or even triple apex.

In general you can take a corner faster by "straightening" it as much as possible, by moving to the outside of your lane on corner entry and exit, and squaring it off by moving to the inside at the apex. But other factors affect the fast line, notably camber, obstacles such as gravel, grates and potholes.

Then, of course, if you're not riding on a closed course, you have to take visibility into account when choosing your line - the likelihood that oncoming traffic will be drifting into your lane, etc.

This article (http://www.soundrider.com/archive/safety-skills/RS-cc2.htm) was written for motorcyclists, but keeping in mind that bicyclists usually want to choose tighter lines, it's helpful.

[Crankin]

I knew you would answer, Oak.
Since I have to go down a hill (that curves to the right) every time I leave my house, I know where every curve and pothole is. And every day I say "this time I am going to do it." Get in the drops and go. Instead, I start drifting to the left, squeeze the brakes, and go down the hill at about 15 or less. I just freeze up and freak out. Like I said, I've given up. Maybe I need a sports shrink??

[maillotpois]

:D Thanks, Oakleaf.

Reading Hough's book to improve my motorcycling last year dramatically improved my cycling descending. That whole delayed apex thing. Good stuff.

[wildeny]

I fell during a downhill turn at a speed about 40 km/hr because I didn't notice the side road was quite slippery (you know, the part out of sun shine). It's quite serious though I didn't know at that time and still had to continue the rest of the trip. :(

Of course, later I still remembered the feeling of falling but I tried to overcome my fear by practicing. Keep the speed low in the beginning and slowly increase the speed.

This article, Descending by Jobst Brandt (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/descending.html), is also quite useful.

[Zen]

On group rides I am the only one who loses time on the descents.

Hello, are you me?
It's a p$$r too because I can climb like a demon :o

[Jiffer]

I LOVE to descend! :D It's my favorite and I'm really good at it. I do get a little freaked out sometimes at what could happen if I crashed, but I just try to ride as safely as possible and enjoy myself. I just set my Garmin to tell me my fastest speed. When I did Heartbreak Hundred, I got up to 47 at one point. Yikes! Pretty sure that was my fastest. Had no idea I had gotten that fast and never thought I'd feel comfortable doing that speed on anything other than the tandem with dh. Yet, I recall feeling fine and enjoying every moment of it (after the stupid climbing I had just done and knowing there was a lot more where that came from).

Stay in your own comfort zone, whatever's comfortable for you. If you feel uneasy, don't push yourself just to keep up with others or "get over your fear". Keep your speed down and eventually you may begin to feel more at ease. Read up on descending skills. That may give you some confidence.

[Crankin]

Zen, I ride with a group of very experienced riders who are mostly "older," like me. But, most of them live nearer to the city (flat) and are not used to climbing like I am. I always end up behind the leader, or at least in the front with the guys on the hilly rides. At least that makes me feel good, even though this group is a "smell the roses" group who never averages more than 15. But, quite a few of the guys in the group are really strong riders, who do incredible distances.
But, when some of those weak climbers pass me on the descents, I get pissed.

[Geonz]

I knew you would answer, Oak.
Since I have to go down a hill (that curves to the right) every time I leave my house, I know where every curve and pothole is. And every day I say "this time I am going to do it." Get in the drops and go. Instead, I start drifting to the left, squeeze the brakes, and go down the hill at about 15 or less. I just freeze up and freak out. Like I said, I've given up. Maybe I need a sports shrink??
Yo both make me feel better. I'm out here visiting in Virginia and ACK!!! The roads curve!!! ... oh, and I'm talking about driving ;P My brother says I drive like a novice 16-year-old afraid of wrecking Mom's car, which is precisely true since I'm in a rental (and we were going up a dirt road in the mountains). (He wasn't faulting me for it... simply observing after I brought up that having been without a car for two years....)
Im similar on the bike, which may be why I rode so much more when I moved to the plains. When I did TOMRV, with so many hills and curves, I had 'em put my name as "ICORNERSLOWLY" so people gave me room (and advice as if I were a novice, which I didn't mind either since it generally applied).
Gonna go check out hte motorcycle page...

[tantrumbean]

Yeah, and I just don't get the "line" thing. How do you know what your "line" is? Is there some magical secret?
I can get up to 30+ or so if it's straight, but if I have to turn, forget it. I still feel like I have no control of the bike and I will find myself not where I want to be. Yes, I look ahead, lean in the direction of the turn, put the leg down, etc. It is not my bike, it's me... I will be over on the wrong side of the road if I start going over 25 on a right hand turn. I do better with lefts for some reason. Then there's the fear. Since I have been riding for almost ten years, I have given up. It's actually getting worse. On group rides I am the only one who loses time on the descents.

I might be reading this wrong, but are you turning your handlebars in the same direction the turn goes? I found my cornering improved 100% after reading Zinn's stuff on counter-stearing, i.e. actually turning the handlebars slightly in the opposite direction of where you want to go in a corner - makes the bike lean over more and means I no longer end up on the wrong side of the road. Took some getting used to but works great!!!!

[Jiffer]

But, when some of those weak climbers pass me on the descents, I get pissed.

Then you'd be pissed at me!!! ;) I'm guessing those weak climbers probably weigh more than you. I'm not a strong climber, but I make up for it on the descents and do pass a lot of people. I'm not overweight. I'm 5'9 and weigh about 145, while my shorter friends weigh 10 to 20 pounds less than me simply because of their height. I also have a higher gear than some people, so can pedal at higher speeds on a downhill ... and I take advantage of the downhills whenever I can to catch up and/or improve my over all time after the climb I just crawled up!

I'm trying to lose weight, mostly for the purpose of being able to climb better. I do wonder how much that might slow me down on the descents, but if it helps my climbing, it will be worth it to me.

Sorry people like me tick you off! Well ... not really. ;)

[OakLeaf]

Losing weight won't hurt your descending.... remember Galileo and the Leaning Tower of Pisa? It's all about aerodynamics, and a few pounds aren't enough to really change the profile you present to the wind.

No matter how much weight you lose, all else being equal, your shorter friends will still descend quicker than you. Just because they're shorter. :rolleyes:

And they're useless to draft behind, too. <cue Randy Newman's "Short People">

At 5'3", I can say it. :p

[Crankin]

Well, I don't know if my shortness helps with anything...
I don't turn my handlebars. I try to lean my body and look in the direction of the turn. But I think what mostly happens is I slow down, stiffen my body, squeeze the brakes, and just pray to get down the hill.

Jiffer, I am not really *pissed* at people like you, I am more pissed at myself. And I suspect you probably climb faster than me, too. I spin up everything, sometimes at extremely slow speeds, but I get up pretty steep grades.

You know, I can't remember how I went down hills as a kid. I lived in a hilly neighborhood and rode my 3 speed Raleigh everywhere. In fact, I don't know how I got up some of those hills on that bike!

[tantrumbean]

Try steering the opposite way (just slightly), i.e. in a right turn steer to the left and vice versa - it's worked miracles for me, I can actually stay on the right side of the road now rather than being carried way out!