New commuter/touring bike. Saddle advice needed!!!

[fidlfreek]

Hey ladies :) Welcome Miss Cherry, my new and awesome commuter build. She's a Surly 1X1 w/ custom cherry wood fenders, beautiful Nitto bars, and a B17 Brooks Saddle.

Now. I know that the B17 is a men's saddle but on my road bike I run a women's 140mm bontrager racing saddle, so I figure my sit bones are nearly narrow enough to ride a man's saddle. I am just not comfortable on the new bike. I feel like I need to sit up quite straight in order for the saddle to feel right (and yes, the nose is up but thats what the shop says is normal w/ a brooks) and that means I end up reaching too far to get to the bars and am ending up w/ a little back/neck pain. Boo! I already have a stubby little short stem on the thing and don't think we can mess w/ that much more. We've tried moving the seat forward with not a lot of effect.

Ideas? Different saddle maybe? Longer bars that come back towards me more?

[Cataboo]

First, that looks great and can we have a close up of the fenders?

I'd say level the saddle for one and just give it a shot. It may be standard to tilt it upward - but it's your bum & other parts that are on it, so do what feels good for you.

Handlebars that sweep further back towards you might help.

Something that sometimes helps me is putting a longer higher angle stem on bikes, so maybe try different stem angles and see if it sits you more upright.

You can always switch saddles on the bikes for a little bit and see if you like the geometry better with your usual saddle.

[Cataboo]

That seatpost looks like it has a bit of a setback on it, you could try a straight seatpost.

[sgtiger]

I second leveling the saddle to start with. While I do ride my B72 with the nose tilted up the tinniest bit, I've never seen anyone's Brooks with the nose tilted up that far. The neutral position for a Brooks is with the nose to mid section level, then make tiny adjustments from there.

I'll try to see if I can find the old thread where it's explained better.

[sgtiger]

Ah, here it is!
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=14348

If you're interested, there are many other informative, and often entertaining, threads to be read about the subject by typing in "adjusting Brooks" in the search box.

[Cataboo]

Fidl,

I've got pics of my surly pacer commuter build on page 1 & 2 on here (It's not as classic of a build as yours is):
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=29170&page=2

I used a 16 degree 120 mm stem to basically lift the handlebars way up high. At some point, specialized had stems with little pieces you could swap to change what angle your stem's at, and I bought a couple of those to use for sizing stems, and then buying the one I need. I still have that stem on the bike (sure, it's heavy but...)

[spokewench]

You do have a short stem, but it has a pretty good rise to it. How about a negative or 0 degree rise at the same length? I'm saying this cause the handlebar seems higher than the seat. I would not recommend this usually, cause most people are dealing with a bar that is lower than their seat, but you are dealing with one that is higher. It could help, but perhaps not; I would try to borrow a stem like that from the bike shop to see if it would work. Our bike shop always has old stems around that you can borrow to try out fit. I would definitely drop the nose of the saddle to see if it makes it better. You can always move it back up.

The seat post suggestion of a straight seat post is a good idea too, but I would try one thing at a time.

spoke

[fidlfreek]

As usual, you ladies are AWESOME! Thanks especially for the very informative link. I tried to search TE for applicable postings but there was just too much information for me to sift through.

It seems I'm going to try a B66 or 67 since I aim to sit quite upright on the bike. It means I'll have to order another saddle but thats OK. Any advice anyone? I can't seem to figure out the differences between the B66 and B67...hrm.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I am just not comfortable on the new bike. I feel like I need to sit up quite straight in order for the saddle to feel right (and yes, the nose is up but thats what the shop says is normal w/ a brooks) and that means I end up reaching too far to get to the bars and am ending up w/ a little back/neck pain. Boo! I already have a stubby little short stem on the thing and don't think we can mess w/ that much more. We've tried moving the seat forward with not a lot of effect.

Ideas? Different saddle maybe? Longer bars that come back towards me more?

First, the shop is just incorrect about Brooks saddles- they should not have their noses poking up into the air- your tilt looks uncomfortable to me. Start with setting it level as a starting point and then make very small adjustments over time. Putting that nose down more level might help your problem- try that first.

Second, from the photo, it seems your swept back bars are locating your handgrips pretty darned back close to your saddle already. If it's just the upright-ness making you uncomfortable then get a normal stem, not a riser stem- perhaps the same length (in MM) but not one that tilts up, raising your bars. Something like this Nitto stem perhaps (but your size): http://www.rivbike.com/images/products/full/0000/0942/50-038-6.jpg
That would bring you down a bit. Not sure what bars you have there, but Albatross bars are quite back-sweeping.
You should keep in mind also that often when we make a drastic change in our biking body position it can feel weird and sore at first, then start feeling good after a few weeks of riding, as our body and muscles adapt to the new position.

Personally, I would not go with a straight seatpost if it's going to move your saddle up to where it shouldn't be and might throw your weight/center of gravity off balance too far over the crankset.

B66 & B67 are both Brooks saddles with springs under them- are you sure that's what you want? Springs do add weight and make attaching a back saddlebag a bit more tricky. Some women like sprung saddles but I don't find I need them at all even though I ride pretty upright on my two bikes.
The diff between 66 and 67 are the rails underneath- double or single, and that depends on what kind of seatpost you have and what it requires.
The main consideration in ordering a Brooks is knowing your sitbone width- best to have this narrowed down before ordering too many saddles. I have about the widsest sitbones there are and I ride a B68 Brooks. I used to ride a B17 and that was great but a bit too narrow for my sitbones. Sounds like (and looks like!) you are less wide than I am for sure.

[uforgot]

Oh how pretty! I 2nd what everyone is saying. Start level. I actually use a book with a level on it and am most comfortable when the brooks is level. Others tilt them up SLIGHTLY. Your tilt looks uncomfortable to me too.

[Andrea]

If everyone's suggestions don't help, then don't be afraid to try something else. Brooks aren't comfortable to everyone.

Sweet ride!

[Biciclista]

I think your saddle is tipped too far back too.

[tzvia]

I think your saddle is tipped too far back too.

Yes- not just tipped up, but it looks all the way back on the rails. Try moving the saddle forward a little. You might want to check KOPS (knee over pedal spindle) with a plumb bob. Run a string with a weight from the bump under the knee to the pedal, with the cranks horizontal, on the forward leg (while seated normally). The neutral position would have the string bisect the pedal spindle, through the ball of your foot. That is a good starting point, some people feel more comfortable slightly back from that point or slightly forward.

Changing this will affect saddle height- you may have to raise it a little if you end up with the saddle forward of where it is now.

[tantrumbean]

Is it just me or does the saddle look a bit low in relation to your legs as well?

[Zen]

I think the problem is your sunglasses.They make your face look too round. Smaller ones will show more cheekbone.
That's the best advise i have regarding this photograph :o

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I think the problem is your sunglasses.They make your face look too round. Smaller ones will show more cheekbone.
That's the best advise i have regarding this photograph :o

Zen, your post is ridiculous.

It's obvious that the sunglasses make her look like Jodi Foster.
Keep the glasses, tip the saddle nose down, keep the saddle back on the rails.

[sgtiger]

While there may be some resemblance to Jodi Foster, the resemblance to Miranda Otto is stronger.

fidlfreek, whatever adjustments you decide to make, it's best to try them out one at a time. For me, I'd try the easily adjustable items first before swapping out parts.

[uforgot]

As usual, you ladies are AWESOME! Thanks especially for the very informative link. I tried to search TE for applicable postings but there was just too much information for me to sift through.

It seems I'm going to try a B66 or 67 since I aim to sit quite upright on the bike. It means I'll have to order another saddle but thats OK. Any advice anyone? I can't seem to figure out the differences between the B66 and B67...hrm.

I would try adjusting the saddle and using a level first before getting the B66 or B67. The B17 is comfortable for me, but the B68 (Another wider one) felt like I was sitting in a hammock. Others love it. Everyone is different. Maybe take a look at some of the bikes here with the Brooks on them to check placement. Here's mine (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showpost.php?p=412082&postcount=15).

Mimi and Lisa both have the Brooks. Look for their pics. Your lbs may be telling you that tipping the saddle up like that is normal for Brooks but if they are like mine, only one or two customers actually ride them, so they really don't know.

[fidlfreek]

ZEN - I LOVE big sunglasses. And yes, the seat is low but not as low as it looks. Part of the reason I want this bike is so I can put my cheap violin on the rack and ride to rehearsal for summer concerts in the garden. Thus I want to be able to put a toe or two down without a lot of trouble. In the picture I'm on a curb AND wearing 4 inch heels. So there's the explanation. :)

I think I'm going to go w/ a Brooks B67 aged. Its sprung (so I can sit upright) and is aged so its going to be comfortable from day 1. I am just not into spending a year making the saddle work for me. I plan on having the beautiful Miss Cherry for many many years and want my butt to love her from the start. :)

jp

And Uforgot, your Surly is LOVELY :) I totally understand why the B17 is right for you given the bike setup

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I think I'm going to go w/ a Brooks B67 aged. Its sprung (so I can sit upright) and is aged so its going to be comfortable from day 1. I am just not into spending a year making the saddle work for me. I plan on having the beautiful Miss Cherry for many many years and want my butt to love her from the start.

Hi, just a couple of things before you order your new saddle-

You don't need springs in order to 'sit upright' on a Brooks. Most people with Brooks saddles have bikes that allow them to sit fairly upright as compared to racing bikes, springs or no springs. My husband and I have 5 touring type bikes with Brooks saddles, none of which have springs and all of which let us ride pretty upright on rides of between 20-70 miles long.

Also- the B67 is a 210mm wide saddle- the widest width they make. I ride a B68 which has the same width. I have VERY wide hips and sitbones. From looking at your picture, I can't imagine you needing Brooks' widest saddle...210mm is really wide. Just my opinion, but I'd say a B17 non-sprung would be a great medium width saddle for you. My husband slathered his new one with linseed oil, top and underneath, and that immediately got it soft and broken in- though it did make the color a rich dark brown. Once you do that though, you can't exchange it for a different one.

Just my own 2 cents ;)

[fidlfreek]

Hrm. The new saddle hasn't been ordered yet (back ordered actually grr) so I'm not tied down to anything yet.

Agh this is so frustrating. I am maybe the most indecisive person when it comes to bike parts. Agh.

Bleeker, Thanks SO much for the advice. Maybe I just want a B17 aged so its soft already....Hm.

[uforgot]

A lot of people don't even need the break in time for a Brooks. I know they are comfortable out of the box for me.

[fidlfreek]

Yes, just slippery. And very very very different feeling than my road bike saddle setup w/ chamois etc. :)

[fidlfreek]

New Pics! Here are the closeups of fender as requested.
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/fidlfreek/DSC00284.jpg

Oh, and I bought PI liner shorts. They made my Friday ride VERY VERY nicely zen.

[sundial]

Fidlfreek, I just want to say you are so cute in your picture and for what it's worth, Jodie Foster is my favorite actress.

I hope you find your comfie position on that bike. You two will look great together. :cool: