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Norse
02-03-2009, 10:44 AM
In the menopause string, Karen stated: "I think the people who live the longest just don't sweat all that small stuff...it's all small stuff!"

I believe this is correct and that it also makes for more pleasant relationships. My problem, however, is that my genes are programmed otherwise. I am a bit of a control freak, very organized and I like things a certain way. My sister, dad, dad's mother, .... we are ALL this way. I have repeatedly tried telling myself to let go of something, don't let that bother me, bite my tongue and don't nag for goodness' sakes, but then ... even if I am telling myself, "Don't say it, don't say it, don't say it...." I inevitably, do. On the one hand, I immediately wish I had not. On the other, I am thinking something like: "I asked DP to do that 3 times already and it still was not done, needed to get done and it was not my task to do." Another example, the nature of my work often means things pop up unexpectedly, requiring urgent attention that throws off what I was planning on getting to that morning, day.... It takes me awhile to adjust mentally and physically. Not healthy.

Simply telling myself to let go or to not say something seems not to work when the moment arises. I would really like to not sweat the small stuff. Any ideas on how I can begin to let go of this junk?

Irulan
02-03-2009, 10:56 AM
It's one step forward, two steps back. I went through some "stuff" where it was imperative I learn some new behaviors. Thinking about it is not enough. What tools have you given yourself?

Sometimes, just choosing to not say anything at all is a really good first step. Practicing saying "uh huh" or "I see" instead of offering your opinion.

Use the Serenity Prayer:

God ( or whomever/whaterver you pray to)
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Break things off into sizable goals. An example might be, "just for this one day I will not make snarky comments about my mother in law/co worker/husband/job/kids etc". Don't worry about what you are going to do about it tomorrow, just worry about doing one thing different for one day only. I forget what the number is on how many times you have to do a new behavior before it becomes habit.

It's not in your genes, it's learned behavior in your family patterns. Therefore, you can unlearn it.
Practice saying, "no".
Give people the dignity of running their own lives, making their own mistakes and learning to be accountable for them.

Think to yourself, "what is the worst thing that will happen if I do not interfere, comment, try to run a situation..." Usually it's not that bad - see the above about giving people the dignity of running their own lives.

Remember, there's only one God and you aren't it. ;)

tulip
02-03-2009, 11:10 AM
It helps me to remember that I cannot control the people around me. But I CAN control my reaction to them.

ASammy1
02-03-2009, 12:08 PM
Wow. This thread reminds me of that book "Co-Dependent No More" by Melanie Beattie. I think I might need to read that again.

emily_in_nc
02-03-2009, 05:09 PM
I am a bit of a control freak, very organized and I like things a certain way. My sister, dad, dad's mother, .... we are ALL this way. I have repeatedly tried telling myself to let go of something, don't let that bother me, bite my tongue and don't nag for goodness' sakes, but then ... even if I am telling myself, "Don't say it, don't say it, don't say it...." I inevitably, do. On the one hand, I immediately wish I had not. On the other, I am thinking something like: "I asked DP to do that 3 times already and it still was not done, needed to get done and it was not my task to do." Another example, the nature of my work often means things pop up unexpectedly, requiring urgent attention that throws off what I was planning on getting to that morning, day.... It takes me awhile to adjust mentally and physically. Not healthy.

All I can say is that I'm just like you. I know it's not healthy, but it is soooo hard to change! I read a book about perfectionistic personalities years ago, and it fit me to a "t". I will be reading the responses on this thread. I particularly like Irulan's suggestion of just listening and practicing saying "uh-huh" or "I see". I really need to try that instead of always jumping in with an opinion. My mind (and mouth) are so often running in overdrive it is hard to "butt out" and just listen....

shootingstar
02-03-2009, 05:41 PM
It helps me to remember that I cannot control the people around me. But I CAN control my reaction to them.

That is a helpful starting point.

One would like to believe that one can think larger and bigger as one gets abit older after seeing things piecemeal or in different parts.

What has helped me abit is that even though the areas of knowledge I think I know alot about because I may have had alot of exposure or been deeply part of a particular world, I still don't know much. The constant learning mode and learning attitude has served me best to keep me from wanting to control and have things my way or not learn of unpleasant truths.

But the unsettling part is to learn of own's one control freakishness via a 2nd party or 3rd party you barely know.

Irulan
02-03-2009, 06:04 PM
particularly like Irulan's suggestion of just listening and practicing saying "uh-huh" or "I see".

oh thanks. It's a good one too if you are trying to choose to react differently, but aren't sure what that is yet.

Over50Newbie
02-03-2009, 06:05 PM
I can totally relate to this topic.

To say that I was a "control freak" is an understatement. I was an over the top control freak my whole life.

Notice that I wrote the above sentences in the past tense. That's because I have good news to share.

I am 54 years old. Approximately 10 years ago, I finally realized that I was miserable and my control problems were ruining my life.

So at age 44, I decided to go into therapy. No doubt about it, counseling was hard. But it was soooo worth it! I finally broke through some very painful childhood barriers and was finally able to give up my control issues. I now look back at all that hard work and say, "What took me so long to start counseling?" I wish I had done it sooner in my life.

So my advice to you is to consider counseling. I was not able to do it alone - I needed professional help. And asking for help is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength.

I hope I am not offending you with my post. This is just what worked for me. I am finally happy! :)

Lynette

Norse
02-04-2009, 11:17 AM
No offense taken. I actually did think of counseling but really do not have the time and would prefer not to spend the money. Which is why I turned to my TE sisters! What a wealth of knowledge and information in these forums.... I have received good advice on everything from saddle sores to peri-menopausal issues.:eek:

Emily, I am indeed a perfectionist, which has always served me well in the academic and, to some extent, work worlds, but not so well elsewhere.

Irulan and Tulip, thank you for your thoughts - I actually took some of those gems and printed them off so that I can keep reminding myself to try these things. I read somewhere that you should try biting your tongue for one week. I repeatedly tried this, and repeatedly failed. Irulan, I really like your suggestion of trying one day at a time. I think that starting with one week is an unrealistic goal (we are talking years, decades of this behavior pattern), but one day, that I can shoot for. I started last night.

First, not a tongue biting exercise but a situation I cannot control: riding the bus home; got the driver who is afraid to use the freeway shoulder - where buses can legally go - and therefore he sat us in stuck traffic for awhile; started to feel my BP rising and breath shortening; reminded myself there was nothing I could do to change this; sat back and enjoyed listening to some more David Sedaris on my MP3 player.

Next, at home: no nagging, no correcting of DP. Of course, I can always see so many ways to do things better.:o

Today, I am trying a full day's effort. Halfway through and so far so good, especially since we met with a new boss today (quite a test!).

Crankin
02-04-2009, 11:42 AM
Norse, if you work, look into any employee assistance program they have. Usually this includes 4-5 sessions w/ a counselor. It doesn't cost anything. If you have this benefit and then want to continue, the counselor can refer you to someone who would meet your needs.
Health insurance pays for counseling! Even if you have limited benefits for this (though many states have mental health parity laws now), you could benefit from short term work, especially since you are motivated to change.
This is for you; same as time for riding, running, etc. Change is sometimes hard without some help.

Irulan
02-04-2009, 11:51 AM
Health insurance pays for counseling!

wow, you must have a good plan. I haven't had a health plan that covered counseling in 10+ years.

Pax
02-04-2009, 12:04 PM
When you feel the control urge growing, notice how it feels in your body. You tense up, you start breathing shallow, you mentally clench up and FOCUS on the urge...

Take a breath, relax your hands and shoulders. Take a few more breaths, shrug your shoulders and flex your hands. While you're doing this stay in the moment, be very aware of your breathing and conscious of you body, focus on the moment.

ny biker
02-04-2009, 12:20 PM
Personally, I would notify the bus service that they need to remind their drivers to use the shoulders where it is legal to avoid sitting in traffic. Citing specific bus route, date and time so they know who needs re-training.

Maybe I don't belong on this thread...

OakLeaf
02-04-2009, 12:26 PM
Maybe I don't belong on this thread...

That's what makes it so tough, that it is a continuum. I'm reading all this with interest. But it's things like, I KNOW I waste more energy (not to mention water) with my "need" for daily showers than DH does by leaving the TV, XBox, DVR, and lights on for hours when he's not using them but at least I'm getting some freakin' benefit from the showers. Should we both try harder to conserve more (which begs the question of how I should react to HIS wastefulness in OUR household)? Should I give up turning the lights off after him because my habits on balance are more wasteful? Or? Or???

Irulan
02-04-2009, 12:32 PM
if it were me, I'd see two choices.
1. turn everything off all the time and quit complaining about it
2. ignore it, don't complain about it.

Crankin
02-04-2009, 01:03 PM
I have Blue Cross PPO. They cover everything and rarely a question asked. Perhaps it is the fact that MA has strict laws about providing mental health services? Not everyone has the same benefits I have, but even when I had my cheap teacher's insurance in AZ, they covered some payment.
It's worth it to check, though.
Or, Norse, you could investigate one of the religiously affiliated family services agencies. You don't have to be Jewish to go to Jewish Family Service, or Catholic to go to Catholic Charities. And, they have a sliding scale. They don't preach their values to their clients.

ny biker
02-04-2009, 01:23 PM
That's what makes it so tough, that it is a continuum. I'm reading all this with interest. But it's things like, I KNOW I waste more energy (not to mention water) with my "need" for daily showers than DH does by leaving the TV, XBox, DVR, and lights on for hours when he's not using them but at least I'm getting some freakin' benefit from the showers. Should we both try harder to conserve more (which begs the question of how I should react to HIS wastefulness in OUR household)? Should I give up turning the lights off after him because my habits on balance are more wasteful? Or? Or???

Well I need a good shower to get me going in the morning. But I did go out and buy a new shower head that uses 1.5 gallons per minute, vs. the normal 2.5. The pressure isn't as good as the old one but it's still sufficient, and I'm glad I'm able to use less water. (It's a Waterpik - I got it at Target.)

Anyway I don't think the two behaviors have to be related. I mean, they are and they aren't. They are if both of you sit down and agree to compromise - I'll do something about my showers, and you turn things off, and the whole household benefits.

But in a way they're not related. Why should the lights be left on just because someone uses hot water every day? Or vice versa. Using x units of energy is better than using (x + y) units.

As for how to react to his wastefulness, I think that depends on whether this is just one annoying habit from an otherwise unannoying person, or if there's a pattern of not helping out, compromising, respecting other people's feelings, etc.

Norse
02-04-2009, 01:44 PM
(which begs the question of how I should react to HIS wastefulness in OUR household)? Should I give up turning the lights off after him because my habits on balance are more wasteful? Or? Or???

Too funny. This is one of my problems exactly! Complaining that DP's wastefulness, while not grand in the scheme of things is none the less contributing to the destruction of our planet has not gotten me anywhere. I guess I should take Irulan's advice and go around turning off the lights after her and stop complaining. I don't know what I can do, however, about DP's deforestation project in the overexuberent use of TP. :)

tulip
02-04-2009, 02:34 PM
I think worrying about DP's TP is really sweating the small stuff on the surface, but maybe not (read on). We each must decide if it's small stuff or not. In my case, I put up with years of small stuff, biting my tongue, not making a fuss. Much of the small stuff was actually signs of much larger stuff: lack of respect for me and my time. Yes, I could wait to be picked up at the subway station another 20 minutes (we shared a car), again, and I bit my tongue many, but it really came down to a lack of respect. There was no reason that a 2 mile trip to the Metro station should take 20-30 minutes unless the one who's doing the picking up decided that his time was more valuable than my time and so therefore refused to leave to pick me up on time. There were many examples like that, some small and some very large. Needless to say, I'm not there anymore, I have my own car, I determine when and where I go.

For me it was about time and life's opportunities, not about leaving lights on. My time is irreplaceable and when opportunities come up sometimes you have to snatch them (but if the other person prevents you from taking that opportunity, it's a problem). For some people, leaving lights on uses earth resources that are irreplaceable and that's a big thing. Or it might be the fact that leaving the lights on all the time is a sign of disrespecting the other person.

By the way, counseling really helped me through these things. It's covered in my insurance, but even if it wasn't I would still pay for it if I possibly could. It's so important; I had no idea how important it was to me until I did it for a while. Wow. I have my life back.

indysteel
02-04-2009, 03:17 PM
I think in the very least that it might be worth your while to get evaluated by a mental health provider to determine whether your tendency to control and/or obsess about things is just a garden variety personality quirck or something more serious like generalized anxiety disorder or OCD. I certainly don't want to assume anything from your post....

Even if it is just a personality quirck, I agree with Tulip that counseling can change your life and is well worth the cost.

Norse
02-06-2009, 08:39 AM
Many good thoughts here, thank you everyone. I will try to remember to report back later, perhaps in 3 months, with hopefully a progress and not a regression report.

shootingstar
02-07-2009, 01:45 PM
Hope there are solutions for the perfectionist tendencies.

I was never a perfectionist..but admittedly I have had control tendencies..at different times in life. Usually when I am dissatisfied or unhappy with life in general, then I overfocus on the wrong stuff.

badger
02-07-2009, 06:02 PM
I'm a total control freak. I need to be in control of things or I can get antsy.

Ironically, even though I'm in need of control, I have a very hard time with decision making. In fact, it drives me insane how indecisive I can be sometimes, like one part of me just wants to say "oh for crying out loud, just pick one!"

I also have struggled with anxiety/panic disorder in the past and I have a feeling all these issues probably come out of having low self esteem.

So I echo others' suggestions on seeing a therapist. I haven't seen one in years, but going to a psychologist for my anxiety/panic really helped.

Brandi
02-08-2009, 07:53 AM
I can totally relate to this topic.

To say that I was a "control freak" is an understatement. I was an over the top control freak my whole life.

Notice that I wrote the above sentences in the past tense. That's because I have good news to share.

I am 54 years old. Approximately 10 years ago, I finally realized that I was miserable and my control problems were ruining my life.

So at age 44, I decided to go into therapy. No doubt about it, counseling was hard. But it was soooo worth it! I finally broke through some very painful childhood barriers and was finally able to give up my control issues. I now look back at all that hard work and say, "What took me so long to start counseling?" I wish I had done it sooner in my life.

So my advice to you is to consider counseling. I was not able to do it alone - I needed professional help. And asking for help is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength.

I hope I am not offending you with my post. This is just what worked for me. I am finally happy! :)

Lynette
Some tips for those of us who don't have the time or money for therapy would be wonderful.

Brandi
02-08-2009, 07:54 AM
When you feel the control urge growing, notice how it feels in your body. You tense up, you start breathing shallow, you mentally clench up and FOCUS on the urge...

Take a breath, relax your hands and shoulders. Take a few more breaths, shrug your shoulders and flex your hands. While you're doing this stay in the moment, be very aware of your breathing and conscious of you body, focus on the moment.
Oh I am going to try this!

tulip
02-08-2009, 07:59 AM
Some tips for those of us who don't have the time or money for therapy would be wonderful.

I've found that writing things down in a private journal really helps me, but I'm not very consistent with doing that. That's something that I need to get back to with more regularity.

Crankin gave suggestions for free/reduced cost counseling. Many therapists have sliding scales. For me, it was just something that was worth doing, so I made it fit into my budget. I did have to cut back elsewhere, but it made all the difference for me. I'm now talking to my therapist only every few months because I moved and I got through some really tough times.

As for time, it is one hour (actually 50 minutes) weekly, monthly...you and your therapist determine that. It's not a big time commitment, but it can be exhausting.

shootingstar
02-08-2009, 08:18 AM
In my previous job I was probably more of control freak...probably a reflection I wasn't totally happy with the work situation.

In this new job, last wk. I was astonished when I learned from the manager that I report to, a quality assurance check method..that I personally would never waste staff time and money. It was to my mind, a reflection of control freakish, perfectionist tendencies.

But I didn't say anything to her. :rolleyes:

Certain professions inherently can cause perfectionist tendencies, I see this in some of my colleagues. What brings a person back to earth, is to deal with clients who are far from perfectionist.

Irulan
02-08-2009, 09:00 AM
Some tips for those of us who don't have the time or money for therapy would be wonderful.

One thought is you might see if there's an appropriate 12 step group that might be a good fit. For example, many of the issues in the thread are symptomatic of growing up in alcoholic home, and Al-anon might be a good choice in that respect.

Another thought is group counseling. There are many good facilitate groups ( for every issue imaginable) and the cost usually relates to 4-6 group sessions might equal the cost of one private session.

Now having been down this road ( feeling like there wasn't time or money), is that in many cases the time/money thing is a matter of how much you want to commit or feel you need the change. For some people, the time/money thing is just a coverup for being afraid of what they might find out and learn in counseling. When my marriage was in the tank, the alternative to NOT seeking counseling wasn't pretty. We were living paycheck to pay check but we made it work and I have never, ever regretted it. Same thing when I was so depressed I was non-functional and suicidal - not getting the help I needed wasn't an option. It's an investment in your quality of life. I'd recommend NOT waiting until things are in crisis mode to get started.

Sometimes, the things we need to learn how to do differently are so well integrated into our core that we honestly do need facilitation to change.

emily_in_nc
02-08-2009, 11:28 AM
Ironically, even though I'm in need of control, I have a very hard time with decision making. In fact, it drives me insane how indecisive I can be sometimes, like one part of me just wants to say "oh for crying out loud, just pick one!"

That's part of perfectionism. You want the decision to be "perfect", and you can see flaws in each side, so you can't decide, since whichever choice you make may end up imperfect. Thus, the paralysis of decision making. The book I read (years ago) about perfectionism talked a lot about how indecisiveness actually relates right back to perfectionism. I hadn't thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense.

Crankin
02-08-2009, 01:19 PM
One of the things that helped me greatly was participating in a Mindfulness Stress Reduction clinic. If you look on the web under Jon Kabat-Zinn, you will find his books. Even if you can only do some of the breathing exercises, practicing mindfulness, and yoga, it will help. This doesn't target OCD specifically, but it gives you tools for looking at life in a different way.
I am in a holistically oriented counseling master's program. This is one of the things we have studied a lot. There's tons of research to support it and it isn't considered "weird" by medical professionals anymore.
You could also consider getting some beginning meditation or relaxation tapes/cds. All of this stuff can help.
And what someone said about the time/money issue being a way to avoid looking at yourself in a way that is not comfortable is really true. There's a lot of help out there.

Irulan
02-08-2009, 02:43 PM
That is very interesting. The MD Pscych I work with has given me some really interesting books and we work on mindfulness a lot..

A Path With Heart - Jack Kornfield
The Power of Now - Eckhert Tolle