Weight of a mtb compared to a Trek hybrid [Archive] - Women's Cycling Discussion Forums

Becky

09-12-2008, 10:57 AM

1. Yes, but it will cost a fortune.
2. Yes. Hardtails generally weigh less than full-suspension, all other things being equal.
3. You could and it might, but I'd consider changing the tires or buying a second second of wheels and mounting different tires. I don't know what tires you're running now or how bad "bad conditions" might be (depends on your comfort level), but that will definitely have an influence on tire choices. Personally, if it's snowing, raining hard, or anything resembling ice, I'm driving or taking the bus.

Something else to consider as you shop: does your MTB have the requisite braze-ons or eyelets to mount your rack(s) and panniers for sloppy-weather commuting? Some will, some will not.

Grog

09-12-2008, 11:08 AM

How exactly do you define "bad/cold weather"?

How much snow and ice are considering riding on? How much calcium will be on those roads? If any, you may want to consider a "winter bike", i.e. a cheaper bike that you will not be too sad to see quickly deteriorating as you ride through the winter snow-abrasive-calcium slush.

For stability, you'll be fine with tires with a bit more thread to them. I don't think a mountain bike would give you much of an advantage there, unless you plan on starting to jump over snow piles... ;)

sundial

09-12-2008, 11:22 AM

Pardes, I did a quick check on the tires the 7.6 has--700x28. I would shop for a different tread (like an all-season tire) and possibly go up to a 700x32, if it will clear your brakes. A wider tire will give you a little more stability but may not make much difference in extreme weather conditions.

Also, mountain bikes are awkward to handle compared to road bikes and I know you load your bike on the bus. Just a thought.....

pardes

09-12-2008, 11:25 AM

Great answers! Thanks so much.

I don't plan to bike for very long (time-wise) on icy/snowy roads but I would still have to get to the bus stop. I have several choices of buses and times but on really bad days the closest bus stop is only 0.7 mile from my house. I would be walking that anyway if I didn't have a bike so I'm going to be "out there" anyway I go.

I see that mtb is not the way to go from your comments.

I like Becky's idea of changing out the wheels but I may be limited with the Trek 7.6 FX. As it is now with the tires I have, it's a VERY small distance to the racks.....we are talking millimeters....but maybe with smaller tires???? I see I need to consult Howard at Bikeline to see what can be done with the bike I have.

I also like Grog's comments. Sure, jumping a snowbank would be a trip! :D If I can't adapt what I have, you are probably right about getting a cheaper bike that might get very salty coated before our winter is over.

Thanks again. Now I can start window-shopping and heckling the bike stores.

Zen

09-12-2008, 11:43 AM

It's not so much size as it is tread.
32's should be fine.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb14/zencentury/Tiretread-1.jpg

pardes

09-12-2008, 11:58 AM

Zen, how much would the extra tread slow me down? In other words would the difference be enough to not consider using the extra tread tires year round? Speed isn't the issue for slowpoke me but road resistance that makes it harder to bike is.

Miranda

09-12-2008, 12:25 PM

Hmm, how much more does the mtb type tread slow you down (and also jarring with suspension w/o a lock out option)...

A guy in a lbs finally described what I wanted to say about this very thing to a dear GF who wants me to do paved bike paths with her using my mtb...

"I feel like I'm going no where fast".

I told the shop guy he nailed it right on the head of how I felt about it too.

For a mtb I own a Trek wsd 4500 hard trail (only front end suspension and no disc brakes--good stopping power in wet conditions, but heavier brakes).

About this time last year I think, there was a lovely thread of someone's beautiful "slush queen" bike a lbs built for the gal. She got much "oooo & ahhhh" and was said to be too beautiful for slush. But, her owner said it was her destiny... so be it. I might dig around for the thread. Can you tell she left quite an impression on me as well?:o Thinking... maybe it would give you some ideas for modifications on how to make what you have work better or something.

I was thinking you could fix up a cheap beater bike as suggested with those tires. I have a 25yr+ bike in my garage that would make a nice beater bike. But, she's steele... and if you load her on the bus as posted, that could really start to sux pretty quick (she's soooo heavy, much more than my current mtb). Going to search for the "slush queen"...

EDIT: Below is the link to the thread with the "slush kicker" she was called, not queen... I was pretty close on the wording...

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=20370&highlight=slush

sundial

09-12-2008, 12:55 PM

Miranda, thanks for that link. :)

I'm currently outfitting my '05 Sequoia with a mountain cassette, derailer and bigger tires for my off season riding. I think it's a great idea to have an older bike as a back-up bike for rainy days and such. I hope others enjoy theirs too.

Zen

09-12-2008, 01:40 PM

I bought my FX specifically to use on the C&O Canal (http://canal.mcmullans.org/).
If most of my riding was on pavement I wouldn't want these tires year round.
I rode 20 paved miles of the WMRT (http://www.westernmarylandrailtrail.org/WMRT/info.html) and i was working it to maintain a 13mph average.

If you ride slower or shorter distances it would probably be fine.

Miranda

09-12-2008, 04:24 PM

Miranda, thanks for that link. :)

It's such a lovely bike... I could see the pics of it perfectly in my mind before I even found the thread.

:)

fastdogs

09-12-2008, 04:35 PM

pardes, this seems like a great excuse to go test ride some mountain bikes!! You may heft some of them and decide they are not for you, but it never hurts to ride various types of bikes.
vickie

pardes

09-12-2008, 04:41 PM

Yes, thanks so much for the link. Now that I have Firefox I won't lose the link as I have been doing recently.

Zen, I'm going to track down your tires. (What an odd sentence that is....I think I've had too much coffee and too many websites. Everything is beginning to look a little odd.)

A slight digression.....
I've read that one of the first signs of dementia is that things begin to look a little odd. And then even a little more odd......
I was visiting a nursing home with Magdalene. We were blithely walking down the hall to my Mom's room. Another resident tied in her wheelchair reached out her hand to Magdalene so I stopped of course. It generally took me half an hour from the front door to Mom's room because everyone wanted to pet Magdalene.
As the woman reached out just to about touch Magdalene's paw, she pulled back her hand and screamed, "Get that panther away from me."
I'm not sure who was more startled by the moment: the woman, Magdalene, or me. I think we all peed our pants. I know Magdalene did.
After that incident, I learned that if you take things very, very, very gradually with dementia patients, sometimes you can reach them without startling them. Magdalene became the best at this. She would sit with her back to the patients as if they weren't even there until they approached her.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/threedogwrite/MagdaleneDesk1.jpg

Magdalene's panther paws at 8 weeks of age.

Sorry for the digression. I need more coffee.....more websites.......

bmccasland

09-12-2008, 05:57 PM

Truely vicious looking dog you've got there Pardes. :rolleyes: 1 L of dog!

mudmucker

09-13-2008, 07:59 AM

That picture is a hoot. Leave it to a scientist to take a picture of their pup in a 1000 ml beaker

TahoeDirtGirl

09-13-2008, 08:22 AM

Pardes- change out the tires. Do you have v brakes or disc? See the reason I ask this is that v brakes in wet conditions are sketchy for me and I wanted to keep the same set up as my mtn bike so I don't have to relearn it as I bounce between the two daily. With that, it makes your bike heavier.

My bike is 28 lbs and is full suspension. I bought a Gary Fisher Utopia which is about 38 to 40 lbs unladen (commuter bike- it's a hybrid).

On the mtb I can get cruise comfortably at 7 mph. There is no bob with the suspension, you would never know you are on a FS until you hit a speed bump.

On the hybrid, at first, with 'cycle cross' tires, I was up to 9 mph cruising. And it was alot of work. The guys at the bike shop talked me into slicks, and now, I'm cruising at 12 mph. Big difference. So I would say go with the tires. Even on a heavier bike (and sometimes really heavier after the grocery story- once I had 60 lbs in the baskets) I go faster than on my mtn bike with knobby tires. And the Gary has a front fork suspension. Which was kinda of dumb for me to get because with the slicks, I never hop curbs.

Now if you want to be hardcore die hard ride to the bus stops, you can get Nokian studded tires. You won't be going very fast though. I would sacrifice speed for contact with the road. I'll be switching the slicks over when it gets nasty..I have Nokian studs but I don't ride on the road with them but I guess you could if you really wanted to.

pardes

09-13-2008, 10:30 AM

BMCCASLAND and MUDMUCKER -- Magdalene begs* to differ with you. (She was a bit huffy* about it.) "Tell them I am a 2L dog, count them 2000 millileters, not a puny 1 L Chihuahua midget dog!" Just because she took a correspondence chemistry course from "Keep Your Dog Occupied During the Day University," she thinks she's Watson and Crick, Jonas Salk, and Albert Einstein all rolled into one.

The day I bought her there was a snowstorm predicted. I was supposed to pick her up after work but I knew we were going to be snowed in by mid-afternoon. So I raced to the breeder on my lunch hour, picked her up, and hid her in my lab cubicle for the remainder of the afternoon. However it's hard to hide a puppy in a lab.

I still regret that I didn't bring home her brother too. He was black and had this incredible sweet dome head and liquid brown eyes.....

Back to the bikes......

UFORGOT and TAHOEY suggested Gary Fisher bikes. Bless them both for taking the time.

How very odd since I scoured the Gary Fisher website yesterday and came up dry and then magically their two suggestions appeared this morning.

I've narrowed it down to 4 bikes, well 3, I think the "Simple City 8W" is just a nod to the fantasy that Magdalene would actually ride in the basket peacefully unlike the last time I tried it and she screamed to any passerby, "I'm a kidnapped German princess who is being tortured held against her will!"

Here is the link to the four bikes compared (http://www.fisherbikes.com/bike/compare/components/utopia/montare/advance-stepthru/simple-city-8W). TAHOEY votes for the Utopia and UFORGOT loved her Advance. The listing of components makes my head spin without a clue.

In case the link doesn't work, they are all Gary Fisher bikes: Utopia, Montare, Advance Step-thru, and Simple City 8W.

Which bike has the best components, the lowest granny gears, is the most lightweight, and can have fenders and racks attached?

* I can't believe I'm making bicycle and dog puns in the same paragraph. Where are the off-topic police when you need them?

uforgot

09-13-2008, 12:37 PM

Oh I love that Gary Fisher Simple city too! Haven't seen one, but I'd really like to try one out! A fantasy for me too, as I already have a perfectly good Raleigh that was in showroom shape when I found her on Craigslist.

uforgot

09-13-2008, 01:00 PM

Pardes...I sent you the Advance link before I read this thread. Somewhere else you indicated you wanted a step through mountain bike. I used the Advance strictly for off road. Heavier with front suspension and it isn't particularly rack friendly. From this thread, I can tell you that I had a Trek 7.2fx with 32c tires and it rode through everything. Those tires are bomb proof and I rode in the snow and rain with them just fine. I wanted a bike that I could ride skinny tires and fat ones also, so I wound up selling the Trek and getting a Surly Cross Check. I have two sets of wheels and just change them out. You could do the same with the Trek. Slicks for summer and something beefier for winter, but honestly, if you have those same tires I did, the Bontrager 32c tires, you should be fine. Something I think should concern you more is perhaps getting disc brakes for wet conditions? Just a thought since I hate telling anyone what they have is fine. We all want to shop for a new bike, you know.

pardes

09-13-2008, 01:11 PM

Yup, I have the 700X32 tires with extra diagonal tread for throwing off water. They will probably do just fine in Delaware.

Thanks, I shall look into disc brakes. Anything to convince me to buy another bike. Right?

Zen

09-13-2008, 01:13 PM

Don't get me started on Watson and Crick.
They stole everything from Rosalind Franklin.

pardes

09-13-2008, 01:29 PM

Yes, they did indeed. Even if she was falling apart, they could have included her in some fashion. But I don't consider that treachery.

I often wonder if the situation was reversed would gender have made any different in the outcome. I'm in the scientific community and I have to say the treachery, every "man" for themselves gene seems to be equally shared between the sexes.

It is claimed that women work better in community and their committee results are often more "compassionate" than men in the same situation. Again, from personal experience in the scientific community I have not found that to be true.

I really think negative traits are equally shared in the same way positive trails are shared.

The only difference I see is that it is generally only women who discuss the topic in any depth. I think that is a very positive thing to continually examine the whys and wherefores of our actions and deep-seated beliefs and motivations. Many men lead examined lives as well, they just don't share the process in the same way.

TahoeDirtGirl

09-14-2008, 04:42 PM

Pardes- I'm not totally happy with my Gary Fisher, so I would vote to get a simple Specialized Hardrock with Disk brakes (or is it disc? hmmm). The GF is a bit pricey and I don't really like the components. The SRAM set up (I can't remember which one) has given me nothing but problems-I'm getting ready to swap it out with a Shimano Deore.

pardes

09-14-2008, 05:29 PM

Thanks Tahoey, I'll check it out.

In fact you almost answered a question I was about to post that would help newbies like me to shop for bikes.

Question:
If you look at 1) a top of the line bike, 2) a midline bike, and 3) an entry level bike, what problems are you likely to encounter with each. In other words, is it worth it to be a higher level bike if you can afford it? If you buy a bike at a mid level or entry level, what parts are likely to not be so good or should be replaced immediately?

sundial

09-14-2008, 06:00 PM

I think you pay for a lighter bike and better/quicker shifting components. One of the reasons I sold my Rockhopper to a friend was so that I could get an Epic that had hydraulic disc brakes and better shifters. Oh, and the full suspension too. I had toyed with putting better components on the Rockhopper but knew in the end I would prefer a full suspension bike. I've been very pleased with my decision. I think that if one can, one should consider the mid-higher end models.

pardes

09-14-2008, 08:33 PM

Sundial, how much would you say your Epic weighs? I checked them out online and found a dealer that is local. Which particular model would you recomment in the Epic line?

sundial

09-15-2008, 07:02 AM

If you wait for the 09's, there is a significant weight drop, say from ~24 to ~21.5 lbs in the Epic, but I don't know if it's available in the mid-range (expert) or higher range (marathon). Specialized hasn't updated their website yet with the new bikes but it's rolling in the shops now.

You might want to also consider the Era if you fit a women's specific design. It's the women's version of the Epic. It is designed to be lighter than other WSD mtb's for that reason.

I have the '08 Epic Comp and it weighs about 24 lbs. I do think about some day upgrading to the Marathon series to get the bike in carbon fiber. But I also remember that lighter sometimes means it won't absorb as much shock if you barrel down a mountain, lol. I exercise the dogs with it and I banged my body around with it in a race and I have to say I'm more than pleased with the performance--excellent handling, good brakes, and rapid shifting. It's not too bad to lift, just kinda awkward compared to handling carbon fiber mtb. Say, you don't have one of those in your steed yet, right? Hmmmmm. :cool:

pardes

09-15-2008, 12:02 PM

Becky

09-15-2008, 12:10 PM

Thanks, Sundial. We have a local distributor and I'll go heckle them for a while. However, the last time I was in their bike store, they didn't even acknowledge my existence....as if I was invisible, so I left. Perhaps they thought I was someone's grandmother who had wandered in by mistake.

Having just looked up who the local dealers are, I'm not surprised.... I think I've feuded with every LBS in northern DE :D

BTW, isn't the Epic full-suspension....?

sundial

09-15-2008, 03:48 PM

We have a local distributor and I'll go heckle them for a while. However, the last time I was in their bike store, they didn't even acknowledge my existence....as if I was invisible, so I left.

Ooooh, that would prompt me to be even more persistent about showing them! You know, one of the perks of being older and wiser is you can get by with a whole lot more stuff than people your junior. ;) That includes miffery. Miffery is giving them the audible "Hmpf!" and, "Well I guess I don't need that measley carbon fiber mountain bike after all. Maybe I'll go to that OTHER bike shop." ;)

Did I tell you about the awesome mountain biker that left EVERYBODY in the dust? Know what? SHE was in her 50's. And she could haul her happy hiney anywhere she wanted and nobody could keep up, lol. She raced with the experts (all pro roadies that were men). I want to grow up to be like her. :) I'll bet some bike shops misjudged her and wanted to write her off.

Don't let them write you off. You march back in the store and you get that bike of your dreams. If you want a full suspension bike with bells and whistles then you show 'em! Heck, call Running Mommy. She offers EXCELLENT customer service and has some dandy mountain bikes at her store. And I'll bet she'll throw in a hunk to ride with you on the trail. :D

withm

09-15-2008, 07:01 PM

Pardes - your Trek 7.2 will be just fine until we get snow. Then.... do you really want to be riding your bike? If so, change the tires to something with a little more agressive tread (snow tires if you will). Or give yourself a break and wait for the snow to melt before venturing out again. If you really really want to ride in snow, wide knobby tires, the biggest that you can fit, and FENDERS will make winter commutes bearable.

For more, check out the Ice Bike thread in Bike Journal - there are many many posts there by people that do this every day in very cold climates.

But really, your bike will serve you well.

Now if you are looking for an excuse for another bike, and have the space to keep it.... by all means, get a beater bike and studded tires if you like for the snow. But I can hardly believe you would want to buy a nice new bike and ride it in snow and salt... and then have to clean the bike every couple of days for the pleasure of riding in the snow. Remember how messy your car gets when driving in slush? Transfer that to you, your clothes, your panniers, the contents, not to mention your drive train.....

For more, see the Ice Bike website:
http://www.icebike.org/

The clean up alone keeps me from riding voluntarily in the rain/snow. If it happens while I'm out there that's one thing, but ......

uforgot

09-15-2008, 09:19 PM

Pardes, I read through this thread again and I guess we need to know exactly what your plans are for a new bike? Are you going off road or strictly bad weather commuting? The Epic with the full suspension would be if you are planning to jump logs and ride technical trails wouldn't it? Not exactly a commuter for racks and panniers. You don't need any suspension on a commute. It just makes it harder to ride and the bike heavier.

I'm with withm on this one. When it snows and gets yukky here in Missouri, my good bikes don't leave the garage. I take my cheap craigslist commuter out.

Edit: I was thinking, the way you like to tour and take pics, I would be more inclined to just use the Trek as a commuter and get a Rivendell Glorius (or velo orange) mixte loaded with racks for your photo trips and traveling. Here is one off of the Rivendell bicycle site. www.rivbike.com

sundial

09-16-2008, 10:40 AM

Uforgot, you made some valid points but I'm thinking that Pardes is weighing the choice of winterizing her Trek FX and/or buying a mtb for fun stuff to do year round. Am I right, Pardes?

uforgot

09-16-2008, 01:50 PM

Uforgot, you made some valid points but I'm thinking that Pardes is weighing the choice of winterizing her Trek FX and/or buying a mtb for fun stuff to do year round. Am I right, Pardes?

I'm not really sure, that's why I asked her to post what she wants to do with it. Initially I thought she was going off road, but I'm not certain anymore.

Pardes???

pardes

09-16-2008, 06:33 PM

I have been rather sketchy in describing what I want since I wasn't clear myself. After reading all the posts and weighing the pros and cons this is what I want.

I want a high-quality, lightweight, full-suspension mountain bike for the dirt trails that the Trek just can't maneuver. If mtb's are built to take punishment, it should be fine for bad weather days (snow, etc) that are infrequent here. I would be using it for weekend rides and a few randon in Winter and frequent in Summer weekday rides when I want to do a run after work.

I want a bike that is more stable in rain or the infrequent snow/slush/ice that we get in Delaware. (Those days I would ONLY bike to the one of many bus stop where it is only 0.4 miles away that I've have to walk anyway.) But again, snow/ice/slush/salt would be a rare event. (My lips to God's ears.)

Since snow/ice/salt/slush is very rare in Delaware I don't think it would require having a cheap beater bad weather bike. Of course, when my ex-husband, then new husband lured me to move to Delaware by promising that it never snowed in Delaware and one week after I arrived there was a snowstorm (1976) that shut down EVERYTHING for over a week. The snow was 2 feet high! It paralyzed the state. Since then there has only been one really bad ice storm so for 33 years we've been relatively snow/ice/freezing rain/salt free.

Since I've gone totally GREEN, I really need a second bike if the Trek is in for repairs or maintenance. I no longer use the car for anything. (Speaking of which I must remember to start it now and then and let it run to keep the battery charged. I'll try to remember to open the garage door. :o)

So from what I've been seeing for pricing, a very good full suspension light-weight mountain bike seems to be in the range of $2000 for a mid-level high range category. So that is what I'm shopping for. I've been loving the advice you've been giving on particular models to look at or avoid. Thank you very much.

So you full-suspension people tell me what you love about your bike brand.

Thanks again.

fastdogs

09-16-2008, 06:39 PM

I don't have a full suspension mountain bike, mine is front suspension only. You could consider a front suspension mountain bike with a suspension seat post maybe.
I do look at the full suspension ones, maybe some day. Right now I am so in love with my chocolate bike that you couldn't trade me a $2000 bike for it right now.
I am having so much fun with it that I think everyone should have a mountain bike. Even if we feel out of place out on the trails with all the young guys.
vickie

Irulan

09-16-2008, 09:00 PM

I just don't get the

I want a high-quality, lightweight, full-suspension mountain bike for the dirt trails that the Trek just can't maneuver. If mtb's are built to take punishment, it should be fine for bad weather days (snow, etc) that are infrequent here. I would be using it for weekend rides and a few randon in Winter and frequent in Summer weekday rides when I want to do a run after work.

um, it's all about the rider, not the bike. Now if you want a more plush ride on the trails, THAT I can understand, but if anything a hardtail is more maneuverable because it is are both lighter and more responsive to body english.

More stable in rain, snow or whatever is going to be about tire choice, not what kind of suspension you have.

Put me in the ranks of the confused on this one. A FS for anything resembling commuting or commuter alternate is overkill. A FS for winter riding, just asking for trouble. Plus, on anything flat, smooth or not technical even the best designed FS will suck away some of your energy transmission through the suspension unless you lock it out so you might as well go HT or rigid anyway.

I have both a Kona and Specialized full suspensions that I love, but only for trail riding. I'm convinced that they would be thieve magnets used around town, especially at a bus stop ( are you mad?:eek:)

my two cents is all. My vote would be for a dedicated trail bike, full suspension for the plushness of the ride, and another bike for weather/bus stop etc.

irulan

pardes

09-16-2008, 10:02 PM

I wouldn't be using the mtb for commuting, I would be using the Trek for commuting. I wanted the wider tires of a mtb for trail riding and those rare bad weather days. Yes, I understand that knobby tires give less grip surface compared to a slick tire, but the wider tire width itself would give more road stability. I can't put anything wider on the Trek than a 32 the way it's configured.

As for a mtb slowing me down on the road...when I do use it on the road... I'm already slow. Speed is not my goal. I wouldn't mind a little road mushiness in return for a more stable ride at those times when I need it. Even the Trek with 700X32 tires with very sturdy diagonal tread that I already switched out for the original 700X28 tires, the 32's are still slippy on sandy/leafy areas of the road.

"...a hardtail is more maneuverable because it is are both lighter and more responsive to body english."

I'm sure that is true for someone in their prime with fast reactions and athletic ability. It's less true for my reaction time and abilities. Though they have improved, they've also leveled off and I find, under less than ideal circumstances, that I get in more trouble with a road bike because it IS so responsive and fast.

A decade ago I had a $100 Walmart mountain bike that was very stable under those kind of road conditions. Of course it weighed 4000 lbs and disintegrated into a pile of rust within 6 months even though stored inside and never ridden in the rain. Poor thing was stolen off my car bike rack outside the lab before we had a locked parking lot in a not so great part of town. At least it didn't have to face the fate of the Trek replacement that went up in smoke in the house fire.

I want the full suspension for comfort, plain old comfort.

As for theft potential. Shrug. I'm as careful as I can be now. I refuse to become one of the many "seniors" who locks themselves in their houses, nails the windows shut, who takes their expensive jewelry out to play with inside their house though they'd never wear it outside. They rot in their vacuuous, silent, musty, boring safety behind triple-locked doors. If the bike gets stolen, it gets stolen.

If someone tried to steal Magdalene out from under my eyes, they'd have to come through me first. (I once took on six drunken hunters with a tire iron who were amusing themselves with hanging a hunting dog puppy....and I won. Arlo, the puppy, came home with me). But a bike? An inanimate object? As much as I love my Trek, I wouldn't risk harm defending it. Besides, I live in what some call a fantasy world of believing that people are generally good and wish no harm to me or my property. I believe Anne Frank said much the same thing.

I'd rather be out on the road on a bike that is just right for me and take my chances with what others call the felonious nature of my fellow man.

Thanks, I'll check out the Specialized since you like it so much. It has been suggested by others who also love it very much. And we have local dealer.

Becky

09-17-2008, 04:22 AM

Having just made the switch from a hardtail to a full-suspension, I'll say this:

I knew that it was going to be different but I couldn't, in my wildest dreams, have fathomed how different. It's heavier, it's higher, and shock setup is a whole new thing for me. I love my FS, but I find myself somewhat limited by it. It's simply overkill for so many things. As a result, I'm currently shopping for a hardtail or maybe a cross bike- something for fire roads, towpaths, quick trips around town when I don't need the commuter, etc. (Anyone have a 46cm Surly frame that they want to sell me?) If you'd told me that I'd be buying a hardtail 3 months after buying the FS, I'd have laughed. But here I am.

Moral of the story: go ride some FS bikes. The more the merrier- different brands and models use different rear linkages and will feel a little different. Then decide if your needs are better met by FS or a hardtail (front suspension only).

Irulan

09-17-2008, 08:08 AM

thanks for all the clarifications... only takes three pages of posts to get there :D

May I suggest now that I get what's going, that in a quest for FS you be very mindful of geometry? There's a lot of variation in body position. Based on what you are saying you are after, you might like an all mountain type set up for body position, which is more comfy and stable than a race type position.

An AM or "trail" set up has a more slack head angle ( front fork is at more of an angle) by a few degrees. The handlebar/stem set up also puts you a little more upright. The more classic race type geometry has your butt higher than your handle bars - which is great for speed but not necessarily the best for technical riding and comfort. We are talking "degrees" here but I was reminded of this yseterday when I rode my friend's GF Cake with flat bars and didn't like it at all.

sundial

09-17-2008, 12:12 PM

If someone tried to steal Magdalene out from under my eyes, they'd have to come through me first. (I once took on six drunken hunters with a tire iron who were amusing themselves with hanging a hunting dog puppy....and I won. Arlo, the puppy, came home with me).

http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/2.gif http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/2.gif

Alrighty, now I have an idea where you are headed. I really liked my hardtail because I actually enjoyed the feel of the trail underneath me. It was lighter and easier to handle BUT I didn't get as good of traction on uneven surfaces like I would with the full suspension. Also, my joints told me if I continue to play hard, I need to find a softer ride. Thus I bought the Epic.

Try all of them and see which one fits you best. I have tried Trek and Gary Fisher and Specialized just fits me better.

pardes

09-17-2008, 04:25 PM

Yup, Irulan, I want it as upright as possible. The racer position with your rear up in the air was a configuration I couldn't achieve even at 30. It's a thing of beauty to see a racer sailing by at top speed, artistic even' but, I'll just watch it from the sidelines, thank you.

Sundial, yes traction. Lots of traction. I am a firm believer in tractor traction. And suspension.....my joints like to just hear me say the words....Fulllllll Suspension.

There are four bike stores within easy biking distance so I will be trying out their mtb's. Treks, Gary Fisher, Cannondale, Specialized and a few other brands.

Thanks to EVERYONE for your suggestions.

Irulan

09-17-2008, 04:40 PM

look at the FSR line of specialized.

Becky

09-18-2008, 03:56 AM

What about a soft tail? I have no idea of their availability or who's making them (last one I saw was a Moots- big money :eek:), but that may be a good way to save the joints and some weight at the same time?

Anyone know if they're commonly available?

See here for a pic: http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=52099

Irulan

09-18-2008, 07:53 AM

funny I just thought "soft tail" was more lingo for full suspension.

Becky

09-18-2008, 08:10 AM

funny I just thought "soft tail" was more lingo for full suspension.

My understanding is that a "soft-tail" is a pivot-less full suspension with ~1" of travel usually. A true FS has one or two pivots, depending on the rear linkage design.

Like I said, I've only see one in person, but its owner spoke very highly of it and its ride characteristics.

sundial

09-21-2008, 09:00 AM

Pardes, any updates on your mtb shopping? :)

pardes

09-21-2008, 12:06 PM

Pardes, any updates on your mtb shopping? :)

Not at the moment. I'm planning on taking a lonnnnng weekend this coming weekend and will have much to report. Hopefully.

Mentally I'm still vacillating which way to go but then I smack myself and tell myself to just put my butt on some bikes and see what feels good. Otherwise I'd be "planning" which bike to buy until the next century.

oldmtnbiker

09-30-2008, 08:25 AM

Mostly I read these boards without posting. But in this case, I've owned most of the bikes being discussed and I'm an "old" - over 50 year old female - mtn biker.

Over the past 10 years my bikes have included: a Trek hard-tail with 26" wheels, a Gary Fisher hard-tail with 29" wheels, a Spec. Epic Marathon (full-suspension), a Seven "soft-tail" with 26" wheels, and a Salsa Dos Niner - a soft-tail with 29" wheels. I also own a Trek road bike.

I ride recreationally on mtn bike trails, rails-to-trails and a bit on the road. I race my mtn bikes cross-country and in endurance races. I don't road race at all. I'm about 5'6" (and shrinking) and 125 lbs.

My first reaction to reading this thread is that "traction" is mostly about tire choice - tire width is a factor, but tread pattern and the composition material is much more important. If I need more traction, my first thought is not to look for a bigger volume tire.

My second reaction to reading this thread is that unless you plan to ride some really rocky, rooty trails, the full suspension bikes being discussed are probably not a good choice.

Full suspension bikes are heavy (unless you pay very big dollars). For relatively small riders, the weight is a significant fraction of body weight, and makes a big difference in how much fun they are to ride. In addition, even good mid-priced bikes have a certain amount of "bob" in the rear suspension - bikes like the top-end Spec Epics have made their selling point be that their shock is "smart" enough to lock out when not needed, but kick in when you hit the bumps. This works pretty well, but it costs alot. Without this "smart" feature, you have to set the shock for your given ride. That's not bad, but my guess is that unless you are riding really bumpy trails you will set it for about 1" of travel. If that's what you do, then you might as well buy a "soft-tail." They weigh less and handle better.

My current "favorite" bike is my Salsa Dos Niner. It has a very small rear shock (soft-tail) that gives me about 1" of travel. Because its a 29'er (29" or 700 wheels - same as a road bike), it rolls over small things on the trail much better than a 26" wheel. Without a full suspension, its weight is quite low - 23lbs. I've raced it all summer and consistently beat my times on my Spec Epic Marathon. The Epic is good when there are lots of rocks, but for a "recreational" ride I will always choose the Dos Niner over the Epic.

A final thought: these bikes have rather different geometries. The Trek/GF bikes have pretty long top tubes, my Seven and Salsa are in between, and the Specialized is fairly short. This makes for rather different riding positions. I needed my Epic to be pretty low in the front to keep my weight forward enough to climb efficiently.

Have fun shopping, Deb