Thinking about selling a car - help me decide which one...

[GLC1968]

Ok, DH and I are looking to cut back. We have two cars and while both are good cars and fuel efficient, we don't feel like we need 2 anymore.

Here's the story:
We are about to close on a home that is about 15 miles from where we work. We work for different companies, but our offices are about 2 miles apart from each other. We have two cars, neither of which are paid off. One is a 2005 Toyota Prius that I bought last fall (obviously used). It gets about 48 mpg in warm weather (about 40-42 when it's cold). I can sell it for about 4K more than I owe on it. It's got 60K miles on it and the interior is light tan (shows dirt quickly). The other car is a 2005 Toyota Matrix that we bought new in late 2005. It also has 60K miles on it and it gets about 30-33 mpg. We will be lucky to break even on this car if we were to sell it. We owe almost exactly what it's worth if we got top dollar for it. It's been well maintained and 90% of the miles are highway miles. The Matrix has a dark grey interior and a removeable cargo carpet. It's also got more interior room in the back (the rear window is not as sloped as the Prius), so we can fit both 70lb dogs in back without having to put down the seat. Both cars also have a trailer hitch, but the Matrix will tow better than the Prius (more powerful engine). Also, putting a bike rack and two bikes on the back of the Prius removes all MPG benefits as it drops to about 30 mpg (the bikes act like a sail on a car that depends on its aerodynamics). Both cars handle the same in bad weather. Payment on the Prius is about $100/mo less than on the Matrix, but insurance is the same for both cars.

Which car should we sell? I know that financially, it makes the most sense to sell the Prius...but with gas prices the way they are, are we fools for considering selling the hybrid? I also prefer to drive the Prius, but I'll suck it up if we think it's smarter to keep the Matrix.

Our plan is to bike to work when we can, and when we can't, we'll carpool. If DH has to travel for work, he'll rent a car (at least, that's the plan).

Help me make the right decision!! :p

[LBTC]

IMO, which is what you asked for, you want to keep the Matrix. If you have only one car, it's important that it can do what you need a car for - transporting your two furry kids is important! Use the car less and you'll make up for any savings you'd have had with the hybrid. It makes perfect sense to me. :)

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[Mr. SR500]

I lean toward selling the Matrix, but not strongly. Since we just traded my VW on a Civic for the mileage, I'm all for fuel efficient and don't see gas going below $3 a gallon ever again. Sounds like you are driving ~ 30,000 miles a year between both cars, run a spreadsheet and figure all the cost. In the end keep what works best for the two of you.

[tulip]

I'd say keep the Matrix. If you are the type to drive a car until it dies, it will last alot longer than the Prius (no unknown battery issues). Plus, it seems like it'll do everything you want it to (cars, bikes), and you'll have $4k in your pocket, which you can use towards paying off the Matrix, or put in a special gasoline account--even at these prices, it'll take a while to use up $4k in gas. Plus, I bet you could sell the Prius in a heartbeat.

If your town has car sharing, like Zipcar or Flexcar (I think they bought each other), having one car among two people gets easier.

All that being said, however, I found that sharing a car to be quite cumbersome, even though I did it for five or six years. My ex (who was then not my ex) monopolized the car even though he worked from home and I had a 14 mile commute each way, which I did by bike several times a week and by public transit the other days. I could use the car as long as he didn't need it, but he always "needed" it. I often could not go on club rides on weekends because he needed the car. Not the reason we are exes, but it was perhaps a symptom of much larger issues.

I think if you have a plan and are both willing to take other forms of transit, then it can work. But if one is not willing to do that, it can mean alot of inconvenience for the person who is willing. I spent way too much of my time waiting to be picked up, waiting for a bus, etc.

[spotlightmama]

I say keep the Matrix. Sharing one car can be a big sacrifice - at least share one that suits you best. Gas mileage isn't everything...you will want to be happy on a daily basis, too! :)

[Zen]

Add another vote to the popular consensus.
Your insurance bill will go down too!

[Melalvai]

Any chance you can sell them both?
Your bikes get way better mileage than either car. :)

Do what makes the most sense financially. It might take some math but it's possible the money saved on better gas mileage doesn't compensate for getting rid of some debt. I'd probably keep whichever one I was closest to owning, even if it meant a $4000 loan to pay off on a car I no longer own.

[GLC1968]

Any chance you can sell them both?
Your bikes get way better mileage than either car. :)

Do what makes the most sense financially. It might take some math but it's possible the money saved on better gas mileage doesn't compensate for getting rid of some debt. I'd probably keep whichever one I was closest to owning, even if it meant a $4000 loan to pay off on a car I no longer own.

Unfortunately, no car is not an option for us. We'll be in the country - so we'll need some form of non-bike transportation. We'll try to use it as little as possible, though! We are shopping for a bike trailer, too. :)

Fuel savings is $450 to $625 per year between the Prius and the Matrix (depending on gas prices). We owe less on the Prius, but it's also worth more to sell it. Plus, anything we make on the sale will go towards paying off the Matix. As much as I'd rather keep the Prius, I think keeping the Matrix makes the most sense. :(

[OakLeaf]

No answers (don't want to let my Prius snobbery show y'know :cool:), but some more questions that you didn't mention -

:: you don't want to put the seat down to transport the PDs if you don't have to. Why not? Do you usually have more than two people in the car? The back seat on my Prius (and on the two Subarus I owned before it) basically stays down permanently. Can your dogs stand comfortably in the Prius? If they're crated in the car, do their crates fit equally well in both cars?

:: you say the MPG advantage of the Prius "disappears" when you put bikes on top, but if you get 30 mpg out of the Prius with bikes on top, that's still got to be better than you get in the Matrix with bikes on top. Last I put bikes on top of a small car was quite a while ago, but it would normally take 25-30% out of the gas mileage on my '87 Duster.

:: gas prices aren't going anywhere but up. They're not making any more of it.

:: If the Matrix is a 49 state car, then there's emissions to consider as well, since the Prius is a 50 stater.

:: what do you tow, and how often? Is it worth keeping a car just for its towing capacity, or might you rent a truck when you need one?

I wouldn't be concerned about "unknown battery issues." It's just a NiMH battery, that's old tech, and it's got a 10 year warranty on it. Worst case, if the hybrid battery should die, you're not stranded, because you've still got the gas engine.

[Triskeliongirl]

I think you guys have to decide which car makes most sense for you. But, I can tell you that we went from 2 to 1car this year, and its just not a problem, especially since one of us can always bike if necessary.

I do love having a car with good gas mileage (our new honda fit), but I also think you will be able to sell the prius for a premium right now to someone trying to get out of a very fuel ineffeceint vehicle.

[GLC1968]

No answers (don't want to let my Prius snobbery show y'know :cool:), but some more questions that you didn't mention -

:: you don't want to put the seat down to transport the PDs if you don't have to. Why not? Do you usually have more than two people in the car? The back seat on my Prius (and on the two Subarus I owned before it) basically stays down permanently. Can your dogs stand comfortably in the Prius? If they're crated in the car, do their crates fit equally well in both cars?

:: you say the MPG advantage of the Prius "disappears" when you put bikes on top, but if you get 30 mpg out of the Prius with bikes on top, that's still got to be better than you get in the Matrix with bikes on top. Last I put bikes on top of a small car was quite a while ago, but it would normally take 25-30% out of the gas mileage on my '87 Duster.

:: gas prices aren't going anywhere but up. They're not making any more of it.

:: If the Matrix is a 49 state car, then there's emissions to consider as well, since the Prius is a 50 stater.

:: what do you tow, and how often? Is it worth keeping a car just for its towing capacity, or might you rent a truck when you need one?

I wouldn't be concerned about "unknown battery issues." It's just a NiMH battery, that's old tech, and it's got a 10 year warranty on it. Worst case, if the hybrid battery should die, you're not stranded, because you've still got the gas engine.

To answer your questions -

Both crates will not fit in the Prius. When we travel, the dogs are not crated, but it's much easier to keep them in the far back allowing for luggage on the seats and us in the front. This is not possible in the Prius (I wish it were!)

Actually, the bikes go on the back of the car (hitch rack) not on top. When we put them there on the Prius, milage dropped 18 mpg highway. When we put them there on the Matrix, which has less of a sloping back, it only drops about 3 mpg highway. That's a huge discrepancy.

I agree about the gas prices! Of course, the plan is to drive either car we keep very little...

I'm not sure what a 49 state car means, but we have no more plans to move. We've done enough of that in our lifetimes already!

The only towing we'll do is when we have to pick up or move large loads for the house (we do a lot of work ourselves). So far, we've been able to fit everything we've ever needed into the Matrix - so it may not be an issue anyway. Oh, that's another benefit to the Matrix - the rear window opens so if we do have to pick up something (like a 15 ft ladder) we can stick it out the window for a short trip. This is also not possible on the Prius.

Yeah, the battery is no big deal. My only concern is that we know the history of the Matrix and every single mile on it, we put there. The Prius we've only had for the last 10K of the total 60K, so that's a lot of unknown history. No big deal when it's the second car but it makes me a little bit wary being our only car. Plus, heaven forbid we have to work on the car ourselves - we can do that on a Matrix...not so much on a Prius.


I totally hear you and I'd rather keep the Prius. My stomach turns when I think about not having my own car for 'emergencies'....but more and more, I feel like it's just not the logical choice. If we were choosing between a Jeep that gets 20 mpg and the Prius, it would make sense. The difference between the two in mpg is just not enough to justify keeping it when the Matrix fits our uses better. Ugh...I hate admitting that. :p

[Trekhawk]

My stomach turns when I think about not having my own car for 'emergencies'....but more and more, I feel like it's just not the logical choice.

On our return to Aust we went the one car option. It makes sense for us as my husband works two weeks away then has two weeks off at home. When he is home we just need to make sure we communicate about where we all need to be including the kids so we don't get stuck anywhere.
I know little about either car so can not help with which car to sell but it sounds like you already have a pretty good idea which car will work better for you both.:)

[Tuckervill]

I say keep the Matrix. It's the only logical choice.

I lived without a vehicle to haul stuff (a pickup) for a long time, and now that we have one, I can't imagine being without it!

Karen

[dachshund]

...the Matrix fits our uses better.

I'm convinced. Keep the Matrix! :)

[OakLeaf]

Okay, you've nearly convinced me :D

Except for the safety features, which you didn't mention - mostly standard on the Prius, mostly optional on the Matrix.

Does your Matrix have ABS, traction control, stability control, and side curtain airbags? If it does, then by all means that's the car you want to keep. Between the two of them, the difference in MPG alone isn't enough for everything you're talking about giving up for it. Honestly, if the Prius didn't have the advanced safety features, I'd probably still be driving a 25 mpg Subaru.


Just for the record, what I referred to a "49-state" vehicle is actually fewer than that now, since several other states have adopted the California emissions standard, or "Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle" (a goofy piece of doublespeak if I've ever heard one - part of zero is still zero, no? Um, no.) Oregon is on track to implement the California standard, but hadn't as of 2005, so if you bought your Matrix new in Oregon, it's almost certainly a 49-stater that releases evaporative emissions.

[GLC1968]

Yep, the Matrix has those features. It was 'top of the line' when we bought it (got a good deal as previous season leftover), so it's got everything possible. I'm not sure about stability control, but it's definitely covered on the other items. We should be good!

I don't know about the emissions standards. We bought the car in NC and while they do have emissions testing - I know it's not California strict. If Oregon goes with tighter controls, do older cars have to upgrade? That's really interesting to think about - it hadn't even occurred to me.

[ny biker]

If you are the type to drive a car until it dies, it will last alot longer than the Prius (no unknown battery issues).

There are no unknown battery issues with the Prius. Let's kill that myth right here.

If the Matrix meets your needs best, keep it. Plenty of people are on wait lists to buy Prii right now so I'm sure you can sell it easily.

[SadieKate]

There are no unknown battery issues . . . .Hold the presses! Stop the scientists! We don't need no more stinkin' research on anything because we now know what we don't know! :D

[sgtiger]

If the Matrix meets your needs better, go with that. Since you're doing most of your commute by bike, I imagine that what miles you do put on your car will be to transport dogs+gear for trips or items needed for your home which might not fit as well in the Prius.

About emissions, it looks like the new standards only apply to 2009 models and beyond. Oregon DEQ info on emissions guidelines:
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/vehicle/emissions.shtml08
http://www.deq.state.or.us/aq/vip/whatstested.htm

[GLC1968]

There are no unknown battery issues with the Prius. Let's kill that myth right here.

If the Matrix meets your needs best, keep it. Plenty of people are on wait lists to buy Prii right now so I'm sure you can sell it easily.

Ah...but there are unknown battery issues for us - as in, it is unknown in my family how to work on a car that is partially driven by batteries! ;)

[OakLeaf]

Ah...but there are unknown battery issues for us - as in, it is unknown in my family how to work on a car that is partially driven by batteries! ;)

Best keep it that way and not work on 'em in the backyard. My neighbor who's a body repair man, tells about an insurance adjuster who was electrocuted by a short in a Prius. Perfectly safe as long as you're not laying metal objects (his clipboard) across parts of the internals, after it's been crashed. :(

Of course it could be an urban legend, but he told it like he heard it from someone who worked at the shop where it happened.

[mimitabby]

Best keep it that way and not work on 'em in the backyard. My neighbor who's a body repair man, tells about an insurance adjuster who was electrocuted by a short in a Prius. Perfectly safe as long as you're not laying metal objects (his clipboard) across parts of the internals, after it's been crashed. :(

Of course it could be an urban legend, but he told it like he heard it from someone who worked at the shop where it happened.

It's NOT on snopes.com; they're usually very good about keeping track of urban legends!!!!

[Crankin]

Keep the Matrix. You're already doing a lot to cut down on energy usage by selling one car. You need to have your car fit your lifestyle. If that includes dogs and bikes, you need to think about that.
The Matrix is not exactly an energy hog.

Of course, my opinion always goes against the grain. I think Priuses are ugly.

[OakLeaf]

Plenty of people are on wait lists to buy Prii right now so I'm sure you can sell it easily.

:D:D I struggle with pluralizing that name, too ;)

For a long time I thought it really ought to be Greek: Prios, Prioi. Now I say it's a fourth declension Latin noun: Prius, Pri[long U]s. Except I don't know how to make a long U in HTML.

GLC: keep the Matrix. :) (and don't forget: Matrices.)

[tulip]

Of course, my opinion always goes against the grain. I think Priuses are ugly.

I agree. They look like cockroaches (so do classic Citroens, but I like those). I found the Prius that I drove to be lacking in some very significant ways. The rear window slopes so much that when I look in the rearview mirror, there's only a sliver of window to see through. And the rear side panels are very wide, further reducing visibility. I just like to be able to see all around, and I couldn't do that in the Prius. Plus, the other cars I was looking at (Matrix, Fit, Rabbit, Corolla, Yaris, Versa) were about $8k cheaper, so I couldn't justify the purchase on gas savings alone.

They are so popular, and it's great that there are so many Prius aficionados. Too bad they can't use the same technology in an improved body. I like the first generation Prii better.

Hijack over.

[GLC1968]

Crankin and Tulip - the 2009 Prius has a new look. I haven't seen it in person yet, so I can't comment on the rear window thing...but overall, it's much neater looking (and less hybridish).

After all this internal debate, I'm finding that I'd love to get something that is more practical like a Matrix (or even something more wagon-type like an Outback) in a hybrid model. That would solve all our issues!

So, it's settled then. Once we get moved into the new house, the Prius goes up for sale. Anyone in the market for a nice dark red 2005 with 60K miles and a navigation system? :D

[indigoiis]

I envy you. We have four vehicles and can't get rid of any of them - one is for hauling stuff around the farm (old pickup); one is for hauling stuff to the farm (Toyota Pickup); one is for hauling animals (minivan); one is for hauling DH to and from his job (Prius).

While it is nice to have the flexibility of all of those vehicles when we have visitors from out of town, or need to haul something, I hate that we can't pare down.

I say keep the matrix.

[OakLeaf]

I'm finding that I'd love to get something that is more practical like a Matrix (or even something more wagon-type like an Outback) in a hybrid model.

A Subaru rep told me in '06 that there'd be a hybrid Forester in '07. Which has come and gone... Way I understand it, the issue is with the transverse engine. Apparently there's no room in the engine compartment for the electric motor and ancillary whoknowswhat. The other thing is, AWD hybrids still get s*cky gas mileage, and you're better off with the Matrix in that department, if you live someplace where you don't really need AWD. We (briefly) considered a Ford Escape hybrid, but besides being freakin' HUGE, the gas mileage is pathetic.

[Hub]

Sounds to me like the Matrix is more flexible for your needs.

[tc1]

I always buy my cars according to what fits my needs the best. Sounds like the Matrix fits your needs the best, plus it has a known maintenance history. And, re the Prius, I am a little concerned about the effect of dog pee and dog vomit corroding the battery area then getting into the batteries:eek:. No, I haven't heard of any studies, but I have had new dogs and old dogs, and sooner or later they all leak from somewheres.

Besides, wait a couple months for gas prices to keep rising, then sell the Prius and make more money.

[Geonz]

I always buy my cars according to what fits my needs the best. Sounds like the Matrix fits your needs the best, plus it has a known maintenance history. And, re the Prius, I am a little concerned about the effect of dog pee and dog vomit corroding the battery area then getting into the batteries:eek:. No, I haven't heard of any studies, but I have had new dogs and old dogs, and sooner or later they all leak from somewheres.

Besides, wait a couple months for gas prices to keep rising, then sell the Prius and make more money.

Now that's logic.

The dog pee decides!