knee pain

[abvnx]

recently during my running and cycling, my knees hurt a lot. im fairly new to both. at first the knee pain wasnt so bad and i could just deal with it. in running the knee pain didnt come on until i was about 1/2 a mile into the run. now i can hardly make it out of the parking lot.
im starting to feel it while cycling too, after about 5 miles. and my knees hurt for like 3 days afterward. any thoughts/suggestions? thanks

[mimitabby]

go to the doctor?

My doctor doesn't think I should run so I don't. But if you hurt yourself you should find out what it is!

[Dianyla]

My doctor doesn't think I should run so I don't.
Same here. I ran a lot of 5K/10Ks when I was a young pre-teen and pretty much goobered my knees for life. Running is very harsh on the knees. Some people are blessed with the right combination of joints, body build, and frame geometry to be able to run. I'm just not one of them.

[abvnx]

go to the doctor?

My doctor doesn't think I should run so I don't. But if you hurt yourself you should find out what it is!

we dont have health insurance yet but we will have it in a few months.
i guess no more running until we get health insurance:(

[Wahine]

Abvnx - run a search on this site for knee pain. There are a lot of threads. Some of them are about pain in the knee cap area, some the outside of the knee. That might give you some info. If that doesn't work, I'd be happy to give you some pointers but I need more information, like where exactly in the knee is the pain, is it superficial or deep, what other activities bother it....

[abvnx]

Abvnx - run a search on this site for knee pain. There are a lot of threads. Some of them are about pain in the knee cap area, some the outside of the knee. That might give you some info. If that doesn't work, I'd be happy to give you some pointers but I need more information, like where exactly in the knee is the pain, is it superficial or deep, what other activities bother it....


its pretty much the whole knee that hurts, starting from about 2inches above the knee and 2-3 inches below. it feels kinda deep. if i sit in one position for a while the get sore. if its cold/damp they are sore most of the day and kinda it feels like i need to crack them. thanks

[Running Mommy]

OHHHH!! being a veteran runner and occasional knee pain sufferer I say GET THY BUM TO DOCTOR STAT! And stop running (for now).
My guess is that you prolly need a good bike fitting too. I was having horrible knee pain, had a good bike fit- cleats were WAY out of whack- and suddenly the pain went away.
BUT when you say the entire knee and feeling deep. Better get her looked at.
Also hopefully you can get to a doctor that is athletic and understands your desire to run, ride, etc. I walk out of any doctors office that says "just dont run. Running is bad for you".. While it may be hard on the joints and knees if done properly and in the proper shoes most people can run with no problem.

[Wahine]

its pretty much the whole knee that hurts, starting from about 2inches above the knee and 2-3 inches below. it feels kinda deep. if i sit in one position for a while the get sore. if its cold/damp they are sore most of the day and kinda it feels like i need to crack them. thanks

At risk of getting too personal, how old are you?

Sounds like arthritis. Could be patellofemoral arthritis but may also be general osteoarthritis. In which case you would want to stop running for now, concentrate on spinning on the bike - no big ring for you young lady, and stretch your hips out a whole bunch. I'll try to give you more later but I gotta go, paying patients waiting.

[abvnx]

At risk of getting too personal, how old are you?

Sounds like arthritis. Could be patellofemoral arthritis but may also be general osteoarthritis. In which case you would want to stop running for now, concentrate on spinning on the bike - no big ring for you young lady, and stretch your hips out a whole bunch. I'll try to give you more later but I gotta go, paying patients waiting.

ill be 27 in sept. i cant have arthritis already can i? i havnt had any knee major injuries that i can remember. thanks:)

[Zen]

Isn't there a genetic component to osteoarthritis?

I'll never forget when I had an MRI to diagnose knee pain and the diagnosis was arthritis.
Arthritis! How can this be?!
Arthritis is for old people!!

I think I was 40 at the time:o

[Starfish]

Please, please, please don't just keep on going through your pain until you know what it is, what is causing it, and what you are doing to your joints.

In my 20's I ran and ran and ran, through the pain until I couldn't even walk anymore, thinking I was being strong, and also not wanting to give up the only thing that helped me feel sane in those days. I didn't go to the doc soon enough, because I didn't want to be told to stop.

I really damaged one knee, and it hurts to this day even to hike a little too much. (Thank goodness it works OK for biking when I keep the muscles built up!)

[KnottedYet]

Wahine? Overpronation causing tibial torsion? Weak hip external rotators causing femoral torsion? Could we work on either to relieve some symptoms until she gets to a doctor?


And yeah, stop running for the moment. Since you can't go to a doctor for a few months (loooooove that for-profit medical insurance!! Paging Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton...) give those critters a rest and tell us more so we can come up with low-cost things for you to try in the interim.

(ice is always good. Especially in a gin-and-tonic! ;) )

[Wahine]

ill be 27 in sept. i cant have arthritis already can i? i havnt had any knee major injuries that i can remember. thanks:)

Possible but not probable. It's more likely to be a patellofemoral tracking problem, especially if it's both knees and is of insidious onset. Having said that, it does sound a little weird and I would recommend getting it checked out when you have your insurance in place. It's not an emergency but you just want to be sure to rule out some weird arthritic process. Meanwhile, stop running and get stretching. Here are some threads and posts that may help.

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=16947&highlight=tensor+fascia

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=14247&highlight=tensor+fascia

Zen - OA does not have a definite genetic link in terms of the disease being passed along via the genes. However, since OA is a result of wear and tear on the joints some people argue that it can run in families because factors that affect cartilage health can be passed along through the genes making the joints more prone to OA. It could be familial due to lifestyle factors that are socially learned, for eg if your family skis all the time...all the family members may get early knee OA.

Rheumatoid Arthritis has a very well established genetic link.

[Wahine]

Overpronation causing tibial torsion? Weak hip external rotators causing femoral torsion?

Wahine?

And yeah, stop running for the moment. Since you can't go to a doctor for a few months (loooooove that for-profit medical insurance!! Paging Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton...) give those critters a rest and tell us more so we can come up with low-cost things for you to try in the interim.

Agreed and you have a nice post in one of the threads I linked to about that exact issue. It all comes back to foot mechanics and muscle balance. Knott and I agree on what's happening, she just tends toward the footsies first where as I tend toward the stretching of the hip girdle first. Not saying that one should come first and the other second, just saying we have different ways of seeing the same thing. A balanced approach would look at both.

I like to stretch first, TFL especially, then add strengthening of the hip external rotators as a bit of flexibility is gained. The Clam Shell exs is good for that. This link has a lot of good info on general knee alignment and also has a picture and explanation of how to do the exercise:

http://www.anaerobic.net/runnersguide.html

Don't worry about the fact that the web page is for ITBS, a lot of the same alignment issues apply to what Knott and I are talking about.

[KnottedYet]

Yeah, I have a thing for feet.... :D

(hey, my new clinic is letting me go hog wild with orthotic business! Whooo-hoo!)

[Wahine]

Yeah, well I have a thing for bums and the hips that go with them.:D :D

[abvnx]

thanks everyone for all your help and responses.
we were in town last night so we stopped by the LBS and told them about my knee pain while biking. so they put me up on the trainer and found that my saddle was to low and my knees point in toward the bike. he raised the seat and it does feel better but i cant really tell until i go out for a longer ride.

as for running, its stopped for now(i havnt run for a few weeks now)
hubby is really into martial arts, it tends to be hard on his jonts so he takes glucosamine and msm. he wants me to take that stuff and stop the caffeine:eek:
right now i have a bag of frozen meatballs tied to my knee with one of hubbys socks and took some neproxin.so far its helping alot.

thanks again, ill keep yall posted.

[KnottedYet]

If your knees tend to roll inwards during your activities, you might want to consider two things: strengthening your hip external rotators (Wahine's interest) and Superfeet with maybe some medial wedges (my interest).

Better yet, do both!

The more, the merrier! It's all part of one kinetic chain anyway!

[sundial]

Aaaargh! I'm getting that stupid knee pain in my good knee.

It started yesterday, about 1 1/2 hrs into my ride. I'm keeping my cadence 85-90 and am staying in the middle chainwheel on the flats. It's on the lateral side of my left knee. I have raised my seat yet some more and it's still bugging me on the rides. With each ride, it's getting worse. Dang it! I was sidelined with this same problem and I blamed it on my other bike being too small. I guess it's iliotibial band? I have Specialized mtb shoes, Speedplay Frogs, and now this. Argh!

Would adjusting the cleat help? Or do I need to head to the ortho doc already? :mad: :(

I don't have any tears (at least it didn't show up in the MRI last year) in the meniscus.

[sundial]

hubby is really into martial arts, it tends to be hard on his jonts so he takes glucosamine and msm. he wants me to take that stuff and stop the caffeine:eek:

There is a wonderful product called Joint Juice that gives you 1500 mg glucosimine and 60% Vitamin C. It's endorsed by the Arthritis Foundation. It comes in 8 oz cans and it tastes a little like carbonated Gatorade. It's available in small packs of 4 cans or you can buy it in bulk at Sam's or Costco.

www.jointjuice.com

[abvnx]

There is a wonderful product called Joint Juice that gives you 1500 mg glucosimine and 60% Vitamin C. It's endorsed by the Arthritis Foundation. It comes in 8 oz cans and it tastes a little like carbonated Gatorade. It's available in small packs of 4 cans or you can buy it in bulk at Sam's or Costco.

www.jointjuice.com



thanks! i have a hard time swallowing pills so this will be of great help.
when i walked our dog this morning my knees were sore by the time i got to the end of the block.

hope your feeling better soon:)