Going clipless....

[MINIskirt]

Okay so I'm planning to make the leap to clipless in the next couple of months.

Am I asking for trouble by ordering pedals, cleats & shoes off the internet? Or is it all pretty easy to figure out? I'm just worried about not positioning something right and getting injured. At the same time, I've got LBS issues so if I can get away with doing it myself, I think I'd like to try that route. :)

[Zen]

Buy your pedals and cleats online, no problem but shoes are another story. The same size can feel different depending on the brand. There may be a seam in an odd place. Any number of things could make them the wrong shoe for you. Don't buy shoes online if you're not prepared to make many trips to the PO to return them (and pay postage).

[RolliePollie]

I'm all for doing as much as I can all by myself! I would say: You can do it!!!

Thanks to all the great info on this forum, I was able to change out my pedals without any problem. And I even used a regular adjustable wrench. Putting the cleats on the shoes was super easy and I've adjusted them a few times to get them placed just where I want. You can do a search and find lots of threads about how to get pedals on and off, different types of pedal/cleat systems, etc.

I would definitely recommend shopping around for shoes and trying several pairs on. My feet are not very happy with the shoes I picked out, although they were comfortable when I tried them on at the store. If I was doing the shoe part over again, I would consider some of the more expensive brands (like Sidi's), which come highly recommended in many TE discussion threads! Oh, and you might want to make sure the bolt pattern on the sole is compatible with your cleats. I think they make adaptors for most cleat systems, but it would probably be worth it to check first.

Good luck! I was totally freaked out about going clipless but now I love it! :D

[mimitabby]

my DH bought Sidi's and he loves them, but they have left a nasty callous at the top of his foot; where the foot meets the leg. So, even the best that money can buy is not necessarily the best. i agree, you need to try shoes on. And shipping rates just went up, making that LBS more attractive than ever.

[KnottedYet]

My LBS will match online prices. You say you have LBS issues, can you find a better LBS and see if they'll match prices?

I like the whole "buy locally" thing...

[Zen]

I like my Sidis. At first I thought my LBS guy just saw me and got $$ signs in his eyes but he described them as being a step in between mountain shoes and road shoes. They have a wider platform and some flexibility. I'm starting to think he knows what he's talking about;)

They were only $100.00:eek:

Oh, and that spot with the callous? I had that issue too. Stuck some moleskin on the tongue of the shoe, no problems.

[Kano]

My LBS will match online prices. You say you have LBS issues, can you find a better LBS and see if they'll match prices?

I like the whole "buy locally" thing...

Knotted, me too: Bike shops sell bikes, but their bread and butter is all the STUFF we buy after we buy the bikes! If we don't buy the STUFF from them, eventually, we won't have our LBSs when we need them!

Our pedals came from another LBS than our bikes. The "pedal shop" isn't a bad shop, just the other one seems to do a better job of many things for US!

Karen in Boise

[Melalvai]

Could someone fill me in on the various pedal terms: clipless, cleats? What are these exactly?
What do I look for? What exactly do I need? I've been told that my pedals aren't compatible.
This is not at the top of my list (more urgent things like getting family's bikes fixed up) but I'd like to get an idea of how much it is going to cost.
I think I want clipless because it is easier to walk around a bit in the shoes.

[gnat23]

Could someone fill me in on the various pedal terms: clipless, cleats? What are these exactly?
What do I look for? What exactly do I need? I've been told that my pedals aren't compatible.
This is not at the top of my list (more urgent things like getting family's bikes fixed up) but I'd like to get an idea of how much it is going to cost.
I think I want clipless because it is easier to walk around a bit in the shoes.


There are a few levels of how attached you are to your bike:
- None at all. Flat pedals that you just pushpushpush. Can use any shoes. Drawbacks are that your feet are not secured, can slip around, come off. You're only pushing down on the pedals, and you're less likely to be using the ball of your foot, or the powerhouse, to efficiently transfer power to the bike.

- Some. Flat pedals with clips. Clips are a piece of plastic that curl up around the top of the pedal and usually have a nylon webbing strap that you slip your foot through. These help you get a little "pull" on the upside of your pedal stroke, but you can still use any use shoe.

- Really really. "Clipless" pedals are sort of a misnomer, because the clip that's missing is the one listed above with the toe-cage. Clipless works by having a special pedal with a spring and an latch of some sort, then there's the cleat which matches that pedal which attaches directly to your shoe. The cleat and the pedal fit together like a keyed-puzzle piece, which is why yours are probably "not compatible". Benefits are that you really get the full power of your pedal stroke, because you can push, pull, kick, mash, or do whatever to your foot, and it all goes into the bike. The shoes that usually allow for the cleat attachment also tend to be designed for biking: they're stiffer through the sole, don't have dangling laces, and tend to be more aerodynamic and sleek. When you twist your knee and ankle out, the cleat and pedal disengage so you can get off the bike. Drawbacks are that you need special shoes (tho the mountain bike shoes tend to be easier to walk in than the road shoes), special pedals, and can take a lot of practice to get the feel of the in/out. However, once people go clipless, they rarely go back to regular pedals!

Hope that helps... If money is a concern, I say wait until you feel that you're ready to make the commitment to the clipless system, then research what it is that you're after and what features you really want/need. It looks like between shoes and pedals, you're looking at around $100-$300 depending on the fanciness.

-- gnat!

[Melalvai]

Gnat, thanks, that makes things much more clear. So clips = toe straps, and clipless = cleats?
Are there different kinds of cleats? I've heard people talk about different kinds such that one kind you can walk in the shoe, and another kind the cleat sticks way out and you can't walk in it?

[BikeDutchess]

Here is a nice link that may help answer some of your questions:
http://binghamcyclery.com/page.cfm?PageID=192

[gnat23]

This one took me forever to figure out!

Road biking shoes are great on the bike, but not so great for walking. The bottom of the shoe is smooth and sleek, and the cleat sticks out of the bottom, forcing your toes up towards your head. You'll see the "penguin walk" at the cafe as people clomp around in these. But once you're clicked into the pedal, they ride like a dream!

Mountain biking shoes and pedals seems to be a good compromise between biking (even on road bikes) and walking. The shoes have way more tread and bumps on them, so the cleat can sit up inside the sole a ways. Like putting a secret weapon inside a platform shoe! There might still be some clicking and crunching on a walk, but they're far less dangerous on linoleum.

Either way, it's not really recommended that you walk too far on the cleats. Cleats are dependent on their ability to click into the springs on the pedals, and wearing them down by walking can interfere with both getting in and out reliably.

There are as many types of pedals and cleats as there are brands of bikes and everyone has different preferences and needs. When you're ready to make the move to clipless, that whole decision process is a discussion for another day!

-- gnat! (who just got her SIDI shoes and oh my goodness do the Italians know how to make shoes or WHAT!)

[Geonz]

I'd use this as a way to find a bike shop to Develop a Relationship with. Of course, sometimes it just depends on who's working what hours, but I'd go in and say I was ready to go clipless (and maybe that I had a question or two) and see how they are at helping you with the process. If they point to the stock and say "there's the stuff" - welp, you might as well go online. I'd go to a couple shops on general principle, if that's an option.
If you already have LBS issues... I'd go online ... but maybe see if there's a shop with an online store that will "talk" to you.

[Scarlet]

LIke others have said , once you go clipless you wont go back and I agree with one who says mountain bike shoes are much easier to walk on.
i think we have the same bike as I have just noticed your avatar!!!! cool
I went clipless on my hybrid and have just changed the pedals to my new dolce its is brill and i love it xxx
i also did a cycle aong the River Nile and took my pedals with me to go on the bike I used there as I felt i could not do without them,
I have mountain bike shoes by specialized and they really helped with not having numb or tingling toes too.
I have to say I fell off a couple of times when I first clipped in as i wanted to see if i could unclip in an emergency (I coudnt) so i had to practice and then realised you can have the spd pedals a bit looser to let you out easier.
i do recommend unclipping one side as you approach a junction just to be ready until you get used to them
sorry if you already know all this but I would have loved some help and advice when I first used them but I did not have access to this brill forum

good luck and just go for it

Scarlet x

[mimitabby]

Besides the fact that road shoes are a few grams lighter; why would anyone wear them instead of the MTB ones which you can walk in? I bought a pair of road shoes early on and even a walk across a driveway (asphalt) was terrifying because they were so slippery.
Unless you are on a track for racing, why would you buy these shoes?

Thanks, I' m just curious.

[michelem]

mimitabby,

This is the suggestion I got from the bike fit (on the fit bike) I had done recently:

"Consider road shoe with aline footbeds and larger 3-bolt cleat (instead of spd mtb style) to minimize Q-angle and foot rock."

Q-angle is the angle between the quadriceps muscle (primarily the rectus femoris) and the patellar tendon and affects the knee. I may consider this after I get more proficient at riding clipless and get myself a road bike, but for now I like my Pearl Izumi Vagabonds that I got for $29! I walk my bike through scary traffic crossings and they are easy to walk in even though they have very stiff soles.

[teigyr]

I can only speak for myself but I prefer LOOK pedals. I have never been able to find mtn bike shoes that will accept LOOK cleats. I suppose even if I found them, the cleats would still be difficult to walk in :D

I don't know if there is a better pedal/cleat combo out there. What I like about what I have is that it just seems so solid and there is more pedal space than my spd's had.

My bike shoes (Specialized Torch) have built-up rubber parts on the heel and toe so I can walk in them ok. My spin class shoes (Diadora with SPDs but they are road shoes) are scary slippery.

[gnat23]

Unless you are on a track for racing, why would you buy these shoes?


I had a road bike, assumed I needed road bike pedals and shoes, and I didn't know any better. They sure do look sleek and nice, and all the sales pitch about being grams and grams lighter snagged me.

I kept hearing about everyone who LOOOVED their clipless stuff, and I felt bad because I hated it! I hated the shoes (even though they were the perfect shade of pink), I hated the pedals (some Shimano racing type, like the grade just under what Lance used), and hated the fact that I had to use every single Superman bandaid I owned on my shins because I couldn't start on an uphill as my cleat wouldn't catch, the rest was too slippery, and I'd make contact with some part of my bike that had teeth.

I have learned the error of my ways. Road bike, road shorts, MOUNTAIN shoes!

-- gnat!

[KnottedYet]

I'm right there with you!

Love my Speedplay Frogs and Specialized Taho MOUNTAIN shoes! I was really lucky in that I was hanging around some women with various types of clipless/cleated pedals and road and mountain shoes. After seeing someone demo her Speedplay Frogs (no moving parts! nothing to adjust! no little bits to jam or break!) I was hooked. Another women had feet like mine and loved her Tahos.

It was so helpful to see equipment and shoes being used in real life, and not just a salesman showing them to me in an LBS.

[Zen]

Knot, you may have just sold me a pair of Frogs:D I've been having an awful time with the pedals I have lately, sometimes finding it difficult to clip in and it's really been slowing me down on group rides.

Are the easy to get in and out of?

[KnottedYet]

Knot, you may have just sold me a pair of Frogs:D I've been having an awful time with the pedals I have lately, sometimes finding it difficult to clip in and it's really been slowing me down on group rides.

Are the easy to get in and out of?

VERY easy! The woman who showed me hers said they are like the lid to a jar. The cleat is the lid, the pedal is the jar. The way they are designed, you can "click in" to them straight on just like other cleated pedals. Getting out of them you just turn your heel outward and they "unscrew". If you start to fall to the side your heel heads outward toward the ground and your cleat unscrews, so your foot comes free without you thinking about it.

There is no tension holding your foot in place, so you are pigeon-toed or have a bit sloppy leg positioning on the bike you might unclip accidentally a few times. I did that at first, but the cool thing was that the Frogs trained me to have better self control and posture in a hurry! On my flat pedals on my utility bike now I notice that my knees and hips don't bug me like they used to. I think it's because I trained myself into better body mechanics with the Frogs on my road bike.

Oh, and the pedal is nice a big, so if you miss the cleat and need to pedal like mad when the light turns green, it works just fine.

[withm]

Frogs for me.

I too had a road bike, so thought I had to have road shoes and pedals. Besides, I didn't want to junk up my expensive bike with MOUNTAIN pedals. Or so I thought.

Fast forward 2 months of road pedals and shoes - they were impossible to clip in and out and I put a few hundred miles on working with them. They were very tempermental, and the slightest bit of mud, grass, sand would make them nearly impossible to clip in, or worse, clip out. Hence my experience witn road rash if you are following Mr. Silver's thread...

Changed to Frogs - oh what a difference! So much easier for clipping in and out, and you can actually WALK in the shoes and don't have to be so careful about not getting crud in the cleats. They are actually self cleaning - the action of inserting your foot onto the pedal forces most debris out of the cleat. Sometimes I do give a little squirt of water to the cleats if I've been traisping in a messy area, but that's more an effort to be fastidious than anything else.

[Zen]

Sold!

[KnottedYet]

Elegant simplicity:
http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.frog

[emily_in_nc]

I also love Frogs! Like Knotted mentions, I have occasionally clipped out accidentally when doing something tricky (I have them on my mountain bike), but they are SUPER easy to clip into, which I love. I changed to them from Eggbeaters, which I always had problems clipping into with my second foot. Once clipped in, I was very happy with Eggbeaters, but not being able to clip in on a rooty trail is a problem! So, Frogs have solved that problem, I love them immensely. When I replace the road pedals on my road bike, they will be Frogs as well!

Emily

[Zen]

Because they have a wider area to clip in, a minor power transfer advantage. Minor to me anyway. And because they're stiffer I think it is supposed to give you better form in the pedal stroke.

Knot sold me on the Speedplay Frogs, I'm putting the cleats on right now!
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb14/zencentury/SPD_Speedplay.jpg

[KnottedYet]

Today, Frogs... tomorrow, Brooks saddle! :D ;) :p :rolleyes:

Congrats on the Frogs! I hope you like them!

[Zen]

Today, Frogs... tomorrow, Brooks saddle! :D ;) :p :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: I DO need a new saddle. The stock Bontrager is a piece of .... work:p

[BikeDutchess]

OK, you sold me on the Frogs! I also found a great deal on some '06 model Sidi MTB shoes the shop was trying to get rid off, so I'm now officially clipless. Went for a short ride out to dinner tonight, and it wasn't nearly as scary as I had imagined. Getting out of them is no problem at all, and getting in is not bad either.

I like that there is no spring tension, and that my leg is not locked into a certain position (the non-centering float). Still fiddling with the cleat position, I felt like the ball of my foot was too far forward compared to where I was when I used my toe clips, so I keep moving the cleat forward just a bit. We'll have to see how I do on my longer ride tomorrow.

Thanks for sharing your experiences, TE'rs, it really helped me make the jump!

[KnottedYet]

That's the beauty of Frogs. I just love the elegance of NO moving parts! Maybe I should've been an engineer....

I used to be deeply devoted to my "old fashioned" toe clips (I'm talking about the actual clips that have straps), but I like Frogs *much* better! They are so much safer!

[Crankin]

Well, I like my road shoes and regular Speedplay pedals. If am going somewhere (like on a tour or a ride with a long lunch stop) I bring a pair of very light weight Keen sandals that my husband can fit in his Carradice bag. I could put them in a jersey pocket if I had to, since i can only fit a very small bag on my bike. And, there are cleat covers for Speedplay cleats. I never walk anywhere in my shoes without them on. That ruins the cleats. The covers eliminate the slipping, etc.
I rode on SPDs for 2 years. They were OK, but now, when I ride my errand bike or my mtb, which both have dual sided pedals, my knees kill me because of the no float issue with SPDs. I thought about Frogs for my mtb, but I am not good enough to feel comfortable without having the flat pedal option (and probably never will be!).

[Zen]

Today, Frogs... tomorrow, Brooks saddle! :D ;) :p :rolleyes:

Congrats on the Frogs! I hope you like them!


No Brooks, Terry falcon X :)

The Frogs are working out great :) :)

[farrellcollie]

Do any of you find you get hot spots or hot foot from the frogs? I am looking for pedals for new bike - thought about crank bros mallets - or campus pedal so I could ride either way.

[Kano]

I rode on SPDs for 2 years. They were OK, but now, when I ride my errand bike or my mtb, which both have dual sided pedals, my knees kill me because of the no float issue with SPDs. I thought about Frogs for my mtb, but I am not good enough to feel comfortable without having the flat pedal option (and probably never will be!).

No float? I have float on my SPD's. I may change out some day, but for now, I'm pretty content with 'em -- low end at that, and supposedly heavy as they are!

Had an interesting experience a couple of weeks ago when I rode on flat pedals with no kind of clipping again for the first time in a while: boy was it hard to pull up on the pedals!

(DH said he didn't realize he was using the added capability so much either, until I mentioned it as we rode!)

Karen in Boise

[BikeDutchess]

Did my first longer ride (50 mi) with my new Frogs & Sidis today and I love them. Why did I wait so long to go clipless? :o No real hot spots, except for maybe my left big toe, but it wasn't anything bad. (I always clip in left first, not sure if that has anything to do with it.) In fact, my feet hurt less than in my old shoes. So far so good!

[RolliePollie]

Do any of you find you get hot spots or hot foot from the frogs? I am looking for pedals for new bike - thought about crank bros mallets - or campus pedal so I could ride either way.

I have Crankbrothers Quattros and I'm having some trouble with hot spots. However, I choose to blame my shoes, which I think are too small. I just don't think it's the pedals. There is such a nice large pedal platform and the way the cleats are recessed, I don't see how the hot spots could be from the cleats themselves.

I'm very happy with the Quattros...as a matter of fact, I think I am in love with them! I love the float and I find it easy to clip in and out. And it's no big deal to ride around unclipped because you still get great contact with the pedals. I also love that you can walk around and the cleats don't hit the ground. I have road shoes but you get pretty good traction from the plastic/rubber thingie that goes around the cleat.

Here's a link that shows the Quattro cleat and surrounding plastic/rubber part:
http://www.crankbrothers.com/quattro_cleat.php?itemId=74650

[withm]

I think hot spots are due more to the shoe, and the way it fits or should I say, in the way they DON'T fit. But perhaps even moreso, they are due to the the socks you are wearing. I have been wearing some older socks lately that seem to be better wicking and have not had hot spots in a long time. Unfortunately the socks are so old - just regular white tennis type socks - that I don't know what brand they are or anything.

[lyca]

Okay so I'm planning to make the leap to clipless in the next couple of months. Am I asking for trouble by ordering pedals, cleats & shoes off the internet?

I'm going through the same questions right now, too. (And, we ride the same bike, by the way!!) It's a bit of a crisis of conscience, really. It would be cheaper for me to go online and buy last year's shoe model (I'm looking at Shimanos) but I do like the friendly people at my LBS and somehow feel as though I would be betraying them. Hmm. Maybe it's a female thing? Dunno. I'll probably end of going online since my grad student-ness keeps the wallet rather slim, but I'll feel a little like I'm cheating on my LBS. :(

[Jo-n-NY]

Another Speedplay Frog lover here. It is great to just plop my foot on the pedal and wala, I am clipped in and then a slight effortless twist of my foot and wala I am clipped out.

Since I have been clippless for a couple of years, I had to add them on the bike I am setting up for a errand/commute bike because I seem to be all out of kilter starting and stopping in flat pedals. Plus I developed a habit of when I am stopped, I always pull up with my left pedal to get me in my starting postion and I cannot do that with flat pedals. The whole way of pedaling in flats, just seems all weird.

~ JoAnn

[KnottedYet]

I'm going through the same questions right now, too. (And, we ride the same bike, by the way!!) It's a bit of a crisis of conscience, really. It would be cheaper for me to go online and buy last year's shoe model (I'm looking at Shimanos) but I do like the friendly people at my LBS and somehow feel as though I would be betraying them. Hmm. Maybe it's a female thing? Dunno. I'll probably end of going online since my grad student-ness keeps the wallet rather slim, but I'll feel a little like I'm cheating on my LBS. :(

Ask your LBS if they can match the price? Or give you a discount on this year's model?

[mimitabby]

Ask your LBS if they can match the price? Or give you a discount on this year's model?

yeah, and if they say no, you can feel a lot less guilty, but you'll have that good feeling of knowing at least you tried.

[mom2twins]

I love my frogs too. Back in the mid-late 90's when i used to ride a lot I tried a bunch of different kinds of Look and SPD and none of them worked for me. No matter how much I practiced I couldn't get it. I went back to toe clips for a while but then thought I would give clipless one more try with the frogs and never even had to practice, they were so easy.

Even now, with just getting back on the bike after a few years there is no hesitation or nervousness about riding with them. I thought about getting some speedplay road pedals but why mess with a good thing? I love the frogs and I really like being able to walk in my shoes when I'm not on the bike.

[lyca]

Hey, thanks Knot and mimi! Those are good ideas. I'll let you know how it turns out...