Dogs Laws and What Can Be Done?!

[Batbike]

My recent experience with a big dog, no leash law, and people with no money but good intentions makes me sad about how ill protected cyclists are when riding on the road. To give quick update: I was riding in a paceline and a big dog darted out across road, attacking our paceline, missing the wheel in front of me but bolting across my front wheel, and I had nowhere to go but down as I hit the dog smack dap in the middle. Sheriffs and Animal Control arrived -- reports filed and dogs caught, but with no leash law and the free first bite law (he didn't bite me), I have no criminal legal action against owners because NO LAW was broken. I am mildly injured, my bike is (I HOPE) only temporarily trashed but needs $$ to repair and the dog owners want to help but appear to have no money and legally they don't have to pay a dime. It is unbelieveable to me that there is NO LAW to protect cyclist riding down state or county maintained roads -- the animal can legally chase and mame without recourse!!

I thought maybe insurance -- but no, insurance doesn't cover bike accidents/wrecks, etc. Maybe a civil suit in small claims court -- an option that may sound good, but if they have no money then they have no money so why go there?!

I am sad ... down right depressed. Anybody have experience in this area via living the dog hits bike or other personal or legal stories to share?

[Eden]

hmmmm - I don't know about outside of the city, but here in Seattle just allowing your dog to run free is against the law....

[mimitabby]

well, Batbike, if you want to sue someone, you have to look the other way and not worry about their finances. If they got fined for the dog if he'd bitten you,
it wouldn't have mattered that they are poor.

can't have it both ways!

and I'll bet those people aren't going to do anything YET to control that dog.

[Batbike]

well, Batbike, if you want to sue someone, you have to look the other way and not worry about their finances. If they got fined for the dog if he'd bitten you,
it wouldn't have mattered that they are poor.

can't have it both ways!

and I'll bet those people aren't going to do anything YET to control that dog.

hmmm ... I have never sued anybody because it is something I wouldn't want someone to do to me. I would hope I am of good moral/legal character that all issues can be resolved without legal recourse. The idea of suing doesn't sit right with me, especially knowing I may cause financial ill-will by doing so. On the otherhand, I feel I was attacked and I have lots of property damage (bike) that costs lots of money. :o

[Popoki_Nui]

I thought maybe insurance -- but no, insurance doesn't cover bike accidents/wrecks, etc. Maybe a civil suit in small claims court -- an option that may sound good, but if they have no money then they have no money so why go there?!

Why not go there? They must be getting a little money from somewhere (welfare/social security..). Take them to small claims court, and get a garnishee. Even if it isn't much, maybe it'll wake them up a little.

And "free first bite"?? :eek: :eek: :eek:

[maillotpois]

do the dog's owners have homeowners or renters insurance? that should cover this. find that out. if necessary, PM me. I am an attorney (granted not in your state) and I do a fair amount of insurance work.

[Batbike]

oh yeah! maybe it is a Virginia thing, but I it is in other places too --

the dog gets a FIRST FREE BITE, meaning once a dog bites someone and it goes on record with Animal Control (it has to be reported!!!), it is now on WARNING that if it bites again, it will be declared a dangerous animal and put in "lock up" for 10 days. After that, I need to read the law to see what happens ... may need to bite one more time to be destroyed -- not sure. However, it gets the first bite free -- warning only!

as for chases/attacks without biting -- if there is no leash law and dog doesn't bite, a dog can chase and chase and down cyclist all day long! a cyclist can report a dog chasing them and if the animal control officer can ID dog and place of residence, they will do a verbal, non-legal warning that dog is a nusiance, but it is only words, and owners may or may worry about it.

[maillotpois]

in CA, the owner is strictly liable (meaning you don't have to prove anything beyond damages) for ANY bite, first bite or not.

[Mr. Bloom]

Batbike,

If the owner's FEEL responsible and WANT to help, there's no reason to pursue legal action. As mentioned before, there's their insurance. But assuming they don't have any, perhaps you can work out a payment plan with them to compensate you for your out of pocket expenses.

I'm not an attorney, but I've employed plenty of them in business. If you work out a payment plan, I'd encourage you to do it in writing since you'd essentially be deffering any legal action in consideration for their agreement.

I'd reserve legal action for uncooperative folks. It seems they feel responsible and I'd capitalize on that.

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?

[Geonz]

Another thought is to at least let the people who make those laws know that they're missing something. Why are there leash laws? Because enough people complained.
Of course, other options are all the tactics for making the act of chasing less pleasant.
But ... I know the local culture and you let your dog run.

[Batbike]

Batbike,

If the owner's FEEL responsible and WANT to help, there's no reason to pursue legal action. As mentioned before, there's their insurance. But assuming they don't have any, perhaps you can work out a payment plan with them to compensate you for your out of pocket expenses.

I'm not an attorney, but I've employed plenty of them in business. If you work out a payment plan, I'd encourage you to do it in writing since you'd essentially be deffering any legal action in consideration for their agreement.

I'd reserve legal action for uncooperative folks. It seems they feel responsible and I'd capitalize on that.

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?


I agree -- the incident JUST HAPPENED Saturday, so I need to get all the paperwork in order and contact them with the list of expenses before doing ANYTHING else. How they react to the list will give me indication of what steps to take next. If cooperative -- great! If want to help but can't, I will mention the homeowner's insurance; if refusal to do anything, I will contact small claims court in their county and set a date. All this is LOGICAL!

My personal problem is the laws that don't protect cyclists, and the overwhelming feeling of helplessness as cyclists get stuck paying for things that aren't our fault because of the carelessness and ignorance of others hiding behind the poorly written laws! The people with the big dog are NOT bad people, but people who did not think about what a dog can do if runs free and the damage it can cause. Now that the dog has caused damage, they feel bad, but from outward appearances (and comments of police officer) they don't seem to have the financial means to fix the damages and as the current law is written, they maybe able to get away with not paying.

I am JUMPING JUMPING to an outcome -- I need to step-back and get the paperwork complete and see what happens! Done venting.

[IFjane]

But ... I know the local culture and you let your dog run.

Bat - Geonz hit the nail on the head right there. It is the "we've always done it this way" attitude and the fact that Madison has always been a rural county. The feeling of the old-timers here is that leash laws are for bigger towns.

I have a neighbor across the road from me - they have way too many animals on their property, including about 5 dogs. None of the dogs are dangerous, though one (a Benji-type) actively used to come into my yard & bark at my heels until I went into the house every day. The other dogs used to bark and bark and bark and no one (except for me) ever told them to be quiet - also, ALL the dogs used to come across the road and use MY YARD as their bathroom. After complaining and complaining to the owners, and after being promised that things would change yet nothing did, I called animal control. She came, talked to the owners and told them the dogs were to stay on their property. I then received a phone call from my neighbor - FURIOUS - he said, "I have to keep my dogs penned-up. This is MADISON COUNTY and I have to keep my dogs penned up!" That is the culture we are dealing with...:mad:

[7rider]

Batbike,

If the owner's FEEL responsible and WANT to help, there's no reason to pursue legal action. As mentioned before, there's their insurance. But assuming they don't have any, perhaps you can work out a payment plan with them to compensate you for your out of pocket expenses.

I'm not an attorney, but I've employed plenty of them in business. If you work out a payment plan, I'd encourage you to do it in writing since you'd essentially be deffering any legal action in consideration for their agreement.

I'd reserve legal action for uncooperative folks. It seems they feel responsible and I'd capitalize on that.

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?


This makes a lot of sense.
Here's to hoping (working?) for a happy outcome on all sides.

[bmccasland]

Bikebat - this would be an example of why there's a need for leash laws. BUT I know that in the country, that can be moot. Something about the southern mind set. Has it occured to the owners how they'd feel if the dog was injured by being hit by a car? I know of riders who have pepper spray to use on dogs - if their humans won't control the dog at least the dog might learn that chasing cyclists is a bad thing.

[Jolt]

I don't understand people who let their dogs roam like that. Dogs running around the neighborhood can cause accidents (like what happened in this case), get hit by cars, eat things that may make them sick, potentially scare little kids etc. Plus, there's the previously mentioned issue of them going "potty" in other people's yards--yuck! Owners need to be more responsible, and hopefully the people in this case have learned that lesson and won't let this type of scenario happen again.

[maillotpois]

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?

Absolutely. In fact, I am trying to shift the focus of my law practice to conducting private mediations, resolving disputes as opposed to being an advocate.

But she should still follow up on the possibility of insurance.

[spokewench]

Leash laws are okay, but are rarely enforced. We have them here, but it is impossible to enforce them.

I was riding down one of the most popular mountain biking trails just outside town this weekend and there was a woman strolling around near the bottom with 5 (count them) 5 dogs off leash!

My husband just bombs right through them really fast cause it makes him mad that they are there off leash and he feels like if he hits them it is the owner's fault for being so Stupid. I slow down cause I don't want to hurt the dog or myself:mad: , but even then you never know what they are going to do when you get close to them and it is not a good feeling.

I like dogs, but this is a town where we have a lot of dogs and I hate to say it, most of the dog owners are not very responsible. Thus, the need for laws. But again, enforcement is another thing

[roadie gal]

I agree that dogs should be under a person's control and not just running wild. But... I live in a semi rural area. I have 2 big dogs that I will leash on the streets. On the trails, though, they are off leash. I keep them in sight and under voice command. If I hear someone coming I have the dogs come to my side and sit. I pull them well off the trail if a bike is coming my way. I shout ahead to ask people coming toward me if they'd be more comfortable if I leashed the dogs. If they say yes, then I do. My dogs are never allowed to just run wild.

I don't believe that universal leashing is the answer. Being a responsible dog owner IS.

[Mr. Bloom]

My personal problem is the laws that don't protect cyclists, and the overwhelming feeling of helplessness as cyclists get stuck paying for things that aren't our fault because of the carelessness and ignorance of others

Done venting.
You're right in your frustration, but keep one thing in mind:

If a kid ran out in front of a car, it would be ruled the driver's fault.

If a dog runs in front of a car, it would be ruled the driver's fault.

If a car hits anything in front of it, it is almost always the driver's fault...on the presumption that a driver should be in control based on the current road conditions and surroundings.

I am not trying to minimize your frustration, but this is an alternative perspective. In your circumstance, I would do exactly as you plan.[/B]

But let me challenge your perspective a bit:

Years ago, in our county, there was an uproar because a driver of a pick-up truck hit a playing child on a rural road and killed him.:eek: Alone, that was terrible. [B]The uproar came when the truck driver sued the child's parents for damages to his truck:eek: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

This is not much different in circumstance;) , BUT, you would not suffer the same ridicule for suing over your damages. So, in this regard, you're in a better position than a motorist...;)

[Tuckervill]

Yeah, but no two people can agree on what being "responsible" is. Most people only THINK their dogs are under voice control. Only with the most obedient breeds would I ever trust voice control.

I took my dog for a walk today and a pit bull mix puppy came up to me, seemingly from out of nowhere. It was early in the morning. I looked around, knocked on a few doors, asked some passersby if they knew the dog. No luck. I took the puppy into my yard so it wouldn't get hit by a car. I watered and fed it, and let it play with my dog, and then shooed my dog inside so the pup could take a nap it clearly needed. I even made it a little pallet on the porch to sleep on. While I was pulling weeds, I asked some of the regular dog walkers if they knew the pup. No luck. One of them said she saw it out yesterday, too. Well, that's the deal closer for me. At 10, when Animal Control was open for intake, I took the puppy in.

The only reason I went to all that trouble for this pup is that I'm one of the few people home all day in the neighborhood, which means if it were to get hit by a car on my street, I'd be the one to hear or see it. I don't want to deal with that aftermath, and I would feel compelled to do so. So, depending on the dog and how I find it, I either call the vet and groomers in town to see if they know it, or take it to the shelter. A couple of times I have connected with the dog's owners by calling around to the dog people in town. They usually get a tongue lashing from me, but I try to be nice about it.

Secretly I hope the real owners never come for some of these dogs. They don't even know their dogs are getting out, or if they do, they're too lazy to do anything about it. This is where leash laws work to my advantage, because if they're off leash when they're supposed to be on, I have a legal standing for calling them in.

Karen

[Batbike]

You're right in your frustration, but keep one thing in mind:

If a kid ran out in front of a car, it would be ruled the driver's fault.

If a dog runs in front of a car, it would be ruled the driver's fault.

If a car hits anything in front of it, it is almost always the driver's fault...on the presumption that a driver should be in control based on the current road conditions and surroundings.

I am not trying to minimize your frustration, but this is an alternative perspective. In your circumstance, I would do exactly as you plan.[/B]

But let me challenge your perspective a bit:

Years ago, in our county, there was an uproar because a driver of a pick-up truck hit a playing child on a rural road and killed him.:eek: Alone, that was terrible. [B]The uproar came when the truck driver sued the child's parents for damages to his truck:eek: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

This is not much different in circumstance;) , BUT, you would not suffer the same ridicule for suing over your damages. So, in this regard, you're in a better position than a motorist...;)

Challenge all you want to, but a motorized vehchile has a different set of standards than a bike -- I believe it is called a motor and a LARGE body that has protective walls ... if a dog chases a vechile, it has a better chance of getting hurt than if a dog chases a bike because the cyclist is going to get hit; same thing for a child -- car hits child ... injury/death; bike hits child ... injury/death unlikely.

BTW, I had FULL control of my bike; I had NO CONTROL of the dog that ran at top speed, jaw out, teeth clenched, within an INCH of my front wheel ... no one, and I mean no one, could have done absolutely done anything different that what I did, which was hit the uncontrolled dog. The owner, oh he was there, at the house, smoking pot and running as fast as he could when the dog attacked me. Yeah, he was responsible ... just like his dog! :mad:

As far as I am concerned, what you propose has NO merit and I don't appreciate the devil's avocate approach ... I am being nice, so please don't push the envelop ANY further than you already have because it is NOT appreciated!! :mad:

As for leash laws -- there are pros and cons to everything; we wouldn't need leash laws if people would understand the value of keeping their pets under control so that they cannot hurt others. I will not debate yes or no on leash laws, except to say that if you have a pet and you believe it should run free, make sure it is not a "loaded gun" waiting to pull the trigger on a someone.

[Mr. Bloom]

Challenge all you want to, but a motorized vehchile has a different set of standards than a bike .

You're absolutely right:)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Isn't this a discussion forum? Hmmm...I thought in discussion forums people were allowed to express various viewpoints as long as they are politely worded. :confused:

[Starfish]

Isn't this a discussion forum? Hmmm...I thought in discussion forums people were allowed to express various viewpoints as long as they are politely worded. :confused:

Here, here. Or, is it hear, hear (?).

[Batbike]

Isn't this a discussion forum? Hmmm...I thought in discussion forums people were allowed to express various viewpoints as long as they are politely worded. :confused:

The discussion is in FULL swing and everyone is being polite, civil, and stressing their point of view. Sure, some points are more emotional than others … we’re women aren’t we?!

As a woman, I can appreciate other points of view until I feel someone has crossed the line, adding insult to injury. In this case, I am injured and I feel it is very insulting to imply that an automobile and a bicycle are equal in defining accidental fault. I feel that the person who implied this preposterous perspective was trying to say that we as cyclists are at fault if we hit an attacking out-of-control animal, thus I was at fault for hitting a dog that ran into me and into my direct line of travel. Fact is, a cyclist is vulnerable to the environment in which they ride; automobiles are much more protected. However, if we are to use the automobile example, this is like saying that the deer that leaped across the road and landed on a car’s roof was the fault of the driver. Maybe the fault would be equal in this case (both a victim of an uncontrolled animal), but the injuries, property damages, and legal ramifications would be significantly different.

I am the OP. Obviously; this is a very personal, emotional, and frustrating situation for me. I wrote the OP to ask for advice, support, and a sharing of experiences. Dogs are a universal problem for cyclist! It NEVER occurred to me that a fellow cyclist would find fault in the situation and put blame on a cyclist. It is an opinion, but I will actively discuss the point and stress my distress for their perspective.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

The discussion is in FULL swing and everyone is being polite, civil, and stressing their point of view....
....It NEVER occurred to me that a fellow cyclist would find fault in the situation and put blame on a cyclist.

I don't see those two statements as being the case here. Just my opinion.
But hey, I understand your being upset about the dog. It certainly WASN'T your fault, and I think everyone here agrees with that fact. I get livid when loose dogs come terrorizing me on my bike. I sincerely hope your situation gets a decent resolution.

[Mr. Bloom]

Bat,

I'm sorry you're mad and upset.

I truly wish you a quick recovery and a fast and easy resolution to your dispute with the dog owners.:)

Back to your core issue: If there was clarity provided in the law, this would be less frustrating and confusing.

I encourage you to get actively involved in fixing the law. Last September, Silver was with a rider who was struck and killed by a car. She has since started a "Share the Road" campaign that is building momentum and next week, the first signs are being installed. She feels good about it...and she's doing a good thing for everyone. I bet you can do the same thing raising awareness of leash laws:)

[plantluvver]

The people with the big dog are NOT bad people, but people who did not think about what a dog can do if runs free and the damage it can cause. Now that the dog has caused damage, they feel bad, but from outward appearances (and comments of police officer) they don't seem to have the financial means to fix the damages and as the current law is written, they maybe able to get away with not paying.


But your accident is an expense of their owning a dog. Leaving a dog to run free is irresponsible. Luckily (for the dog) it ran in front of you, and not a semi-truck. If these people are responsible adults, they need to be responsible for the consequences of their choice to own a dog.

I am not a lawyer, but while the dog might not be considered dangerous by the first bite law, there might be some sort of vandalism law it comes under. Make sure there is a police report, to prove the incident happened.

Mary

[bmccasland]

Last night after my bike ride, I took Nala (12-yr old Aussie Shepard) for her evening walk. The direction we headed took us by a house where a little grey terrier mutt thing (5 lbs soaking wet) who thinks its territory includes the street and is free ranging. Anyway this little scrap of a dog comes running viciously barking out from under the fence straight at us, then around in front of Nala. We're at a fast paced walk, rat-dog full tilt.... BUT it miscalculated the arch and the path crossed directly in front of Nala, who bonked the dog with her nose. The yelp that insued from rat-dog made me think Nala bit it (no great loss as far as I'm concerned), but no one was injured. Rat-dog managed to scare itself! It continued the run behind us, but no barking. I told Nala she was a good girl as we continued on our way.

[Batbike]

Animal Control declared the dog dangerous. They had a vet medically declare the dog dangerous. The dog owners did not fight the finding, agreeing, and signed the dog over to the county. The dog was euthanized under VA Dangerous Dog Statue, code 3.1-796.93:1.

How this affects any financial liability, I don't know. BUT the road is now safe for cyclists, children, and anyone else! :cool: :)

[Kitsune06]

My recent experience with a big dog, no leash law, and people with no money but good intentions makes me sad about how ill protected cyclists are when riding on the road. To give quick update: I was riding in a paceline and a big dog darted out across road, attacking our paceline, missing the wheel in front of me but bolting across my front wheel, and I had nowhere to go but down as I hit the dog smack dap in the middle. Sheriffs and Animal Control arrived -- reports filed and dogs caught, but with no leash law and the free first bite law (he didn't bite me), I have no criminal legal action against owners because NO LAW was broken. I am mildly injured, my bike is (I HOPE) only temporarily trashed but needs $$ to repair and the dog owners want to help but appear to have no money and legally they don't have to pay a dime. It is unbelieveable to me that there is NO LAW to protect cyclist riding down state or county maintained roads -- the animal can legally chase and maim without recourse!!

I am sad ... down right depressed. Anybody have experience in this area via living the dog hits bike or other personal or legal stories to share?


Animal Control declared the dog dangerous. They had a vet medically declare the dog dangerous. The dog owners did not fight the finding, agreeing, and signed the dog over to the county. The dog was euthanized under VA Dangerous Dog Statue, code 3.1-796.93:1.

How this affects any financial liability, I don't know. BUT the road is now safe for cyclists, children, and anyone else! :cool: :)

Wait a ****ing minute. I want to know how the dog was declared 'dangerous' and what exactly constitutes 'dangerous'. Just because those dumb***es didn't have a fence or even a cable-tie for their dog, does not mean that his running out into the road to chase something (which is a dog's nature, like it or not) constitutes a 'dangerous' dog.

And oh, yay! The dog was put down. We're all safe. Gosh, I'm so effing happy for everyone concerned. What a bunch of effing hypocrites. Every time I mourn with a woman posting here about how another one of our fur babies has crossed the rainbow bridge, I feel for them and with them, knowing what it's like to lose a pet... but I can not rejoice with you in this 'justice'.

For what it's worth, I lost a dog, was euthanized 'for the greater good' You want to know why? My sister was a little kid, and invited her friend and her friend's mom and little brother in. "Dude" my mom's elderly and arthritic Samoyed was sound asleep in front of the door. Kim, my sis, steps over the dog. Her friend steps over the dog. The little brother stops and hesitates in front of him, because the little bro is too short to so easily step over him. Mom isn't looking and gives the kid a push. Kid steps on Dude's arthritic back leg. Dude wakes up startled and snaps at the kid. 2 stitches in his face. Dude tucks tail and sits in the corner, quietly, knowing he'd done wrong. Mom says it's ok, knew she'd at least partially been to blame. None of us knew they were coming in, or the dog would have been woken up and moved to another room. You just don't do that to an old, half blind dog. Well, they reported the bite to the police, our home-owner's insurance would've skyrocketed (or so I heard from my mom, I was young and didn't understand all the details) long story short, we had to put Dude down because he was "dangerous" though he'd never bitten anyone before, well into his old age, and wouldn't have then, except out of his fright and pain. I had my head on his side and held him, listening to those slow last breaths.

So no, I just don't feel good about this... and I can't feel good about irresponsible dog owners, either. I send my best wishes to the family who just lost their furbaby, because no one knew him/her the way they knew him/her.

[Jolt]

Wait a ****ing minute. I want to know how the dog was declared 'dangerous' and what exactly constitutes 'dangerous'. Just because those dumb***es didn't have a fence or even a cable-tie for their dog, does not mean that his running out into the road to chase something (which is a dog's nature, like it or not) constitutes a 'dangerous' dog.

And oh, yay! The dog was put down. We're all safe. Gosh, I'm so effing happy for everyone concerned. What a bunch of effing hypocrites. Every time I mourn with a woman posting here about how another one of our fur babies has crossed the rainbow bridge, I feel for them and with them, knowing what it's like to lose a pet... but I can not rejoice with you in this 'justice'.

For what it's worth, I lost a dog, was euthanized 'for the greater good' You want to know why? My sister was a little kid, and invited her friend and her friend's mom and little brother in. "Dude" my mom's elderly and arthritic Samoyed was sound asleep in front of the door. Kim, my sis, steps over the dog. Her friend steps over the dog. The little brother stops and hesitates in front of him, because the little bro is too short to so easily step over him. Mom isn't looking and gives the kid a push. Kid steps on Dude's arthritic back leg. Dude wakes up startled and snaps at the kid. 2 stitches in his face. Dude tucks tail and sits in the corner, quietly, knowing he'd done wrong. Mom says it's ok, knew she'd at least partially been to blame. None of us knew they were coming in, or the dog would have been woken up and moved to another room. You just don't do that to an old, half blind dog. Well, they reported the bite to the police, our home-owner's insurance would've skyrocketed (or so I heard from my mom, I was young and didn't understand all the details) long story short, we had to put Dude down because he was "dangerous" though he'd never bitten anyone before, well into his old age, and wouldn't have then, except out of his fright and pain. I had my head on his side and held him, listening to those slow last breaths.

So no, I just don't feel good about this... and I can't feel good about irresponsible dog owners, either. I send my best wishes to the family who just lost their furbaby, because no one knew him/her the way they knew him/her.

I would have to agree. The problem in this situation wasn't that the dog was "dangerous", it was that the owners were irresponsible by allowing it to roam unsupervised. From the description of the incident, there is no indication that the dog was acting aggressively/trying to bite anyone. It is instinctive for a dog to chase something that is moving, which can (and did, in this case) create problems if that "something" is a cyclist who can end up crashing as a result. That's why people need to have their dogs under control, to prevent incidents like this as well as for the dog's own safety (running out into the road to chase bikes, cars etc. is a great way for them to get run over). As for the situation you describe with Dude snapping at the kid who stepped on him, that's a shame. That wasn't an aggressive dog, just one reacting as could be expected given what happened (kinda like if somebody jumped on you while you were sleeping you'd probably shove them off, elbow them etc. automatically). It's obviously unfortunate that the kid got bitten, and that's never a good situation, but personally I would consider something like that an "accident", for lack of a better term.

[Batbike]

So no, I just don't feel good about this... and I can't feel good about irresponsible dog owners, either. I send my best wishes to the family who just lost their furbaby, because no one knew him/her the way they knew him/her.

I am sorry about your personal pet loss and am glad that there are animal lovers, like you, that are passionate about pets. The world needs them!!!

Please understand, it is NOT easy to declare a dog dangerous -- the VA Dangerous Dog Statue is very complex, code 3.1-796.93:1. For your own information, you may want to read it. So, no, this was not a solution to a single incident and no this is not the family upset that they "lost their furbaby". I know, for a FACT, that the family is relieved about the dog, not upset.

There is SO MUCH MORE to the details of this story -- the family, the dog, children, cyclists, vets, law enforcement, etc. It has taken me days to get ALL the details and unfortunately it only takes minutes to share bits and pieces. I have not shared everything, so maybe I should not have shared at all. However, dogs are part of the cycling culture, and it is good to talk about them and how we can protect ourselves, our equipment, and the animals.

Am I happy the dog was killed? No, I do not want to see any animal destroyed; and, yes, I do not want to see any person hurt because an animal is sick and uncontrolled and cannot function in society without hurting something or someone -- that is the main point of the dangerous dog statue. It is NOT a fine line between dangerous dog and cute furbaby -- the line is VERY thick and well padded to protect dogs that are not dangerous. VA is very empathetic to dog owners with the "ONE FREE BITE dog law".

Please continue fighting for furry friends; please remember some furry friends need protection from themslves and others and that is why there are laws.

[Tuckervill]

I love dogs--I *really* love them.

I'm not happy that the dog had to be put down, for the dog's sake. Now that the dog is put down, the owners have little incentive to learn better. Plus, they're probably thinking "that's that" and they have nothing else to worry about.

(I really love dogs. I had to put one of my dogs down 6 weeks ago, okay?) But I don't think the loss of this dog is that much of a tragedy. Someone else could have loved and cared for that dog better than those owners. But maybe this situation will teach those owners that they can't properly keep a dog? Maybe they'll get off scot-free without having to pay any monetary damages and they'll put it behind them. Maybe they'll get the message that they're not good enough dog owners. Or, maybe they'll still want a dog and because of this situation they will spend some time learning how to properly care for it? I just don't think this dog died in vain.

And for the record, I don't believe Batbike was celebrating that the dog was put down, but just that some small increment towards justice was done in her case. I wouldn't come down so hard on her for being happy about that.

Karen

[indysteel]

One comment that I would add to the discussion is that a leash law, in itself, will not necessarily provide compensation for a cyclist injured by a dog allowed to run loose. If the law only "criminalizes" the behavior through the imposition of a fine, then you'd still be stuck pursuing homeowner's insurance or suing in small claims court to recover for any property damage or personal injury. A criminal law at the end of the day only serves to encourage people to restrain their dogs. And if it's not enforced or enforced only when someone is already hurt, it really does very little good.

Homeowners really kill me. I got chased my a little dog the other day who stopped me dead in my tracks. He wouldn't back off at all. His owner ran from his hard and chased him away from me. I told the guy that other cyclists would be coming through since it was a club ride. He admits that he'd already "seen a bunch." Presumably, the dog chased after those cyclists too so then WTF? WHY HAVEN'T YOU TIED YOUR DOG UP THEN? He eventually had to take his belt off his pants and "whip" the dog back into the yard.

Sigh....

[bacarver]

Hi Batbike -

I had a terrible bike wreck June 14, 2005 (only weeks after buying my new Trek 1500). A pit bull ran in front of me. He came from out of nowhere and slammed into my front wheel. I came to an instant stop, did a 360, crashed, dragged, twisted, and sustained all the painful injuries possible. The pain and terror of this kind of bike wreck is horrible. It is a descent into fear and pain that cannot be cast off quickly enough.
The owner was on public aid. He was using the dog as a weapon to get free electricity.
The dog didn't bite me, but I still shudder everytime I remember how it circled me and growled at me as I sat on the ground bleeding and scared beyond my level of awareness.
I did contact my lawyer which resulted in adequate pressure in regard to the owner. We contacted the local politicians, neighbors, and the police. It was a matter of weeks that passed till the man was run off his rental property and his rental trailer was demolished due to being a health hazard.
I could have sued the man, but he has nothing. I concentrated on my recovery.
I am a volunteer at the local animal shelter. I am slowly easing my way into the leadership structure and hope to be a board member soon. I will do my best to make the roads safer for my other cycling buddies.
I hope you heal soon and that your future rides are safe and enjoyable.
Barb