Buyers remorse/panic: Bit of a saga, sorry!

[chakra]

Hi Everyone,

I've lurked long enough to notice what a great community this is - wow! I'm so excited to have joined. But now I need help - how can I be part of a cycling community without a steed? I bought a bike, but am worried it is the WRONG bike. I have until this Friday to return it, and the shop will charge me a 20% restocking fee. That'll cost me about $180.00 :(
(Although, if I exchange this bike for anothor one of theirs, maybe they'll waive it. . . and if not, well, I am free to look at brands they don't stock.)

See, it's like this: I haven't ridden in ten years, used to have a heavy cromoly mtn. bike (no suspension at all) that was too small but loved it (it was my first bike - i didn't learn to ride till I was an adult!). Anyway, I vowed that I would someday own the right bike, one that fit me, was fun to ride, and was the perfect bike. I should add I LOVED riding and rode every day when I had a bike, pretty much always on pavement.

I have three young kids (7, 4.5 & 2YO), and have ordered a Copilot Limo (seat that fits behind rider on bike rack) so that I can have my youngest in a seat behind me sometimes. He is 2 years old. I have no interest in towing him in a trailer or some such. So whatever I buy, I'll want to put the copilot on the blackburn rack (it is meant to use with that particular rack) from time to time, if we are all out riding together.

I wanted to get a hybrid in case we decide to ride a few trails, but I'll likely be on pavement a lot. I thought it might be nice to have some suspension, because that way I won't have to worry quite as much about curbs and potholes and all - as well, I thought this way I wouldn't stress out my joints and wrists etc. with vibrations from the road. But, really, I don't know a lot about it, and not having suspension on my last bike didn't stop me from riding it.

I went to lots of bike stores and finally bought a bike at
http://www.fortstreetcycle.ca/ where they did a fitting using their system. I am 5'3", 135 lbs, narrow shoulders, long legs and average body, so I was interested in the wsd bikes. They said it looked like I liked to be "stretched out" over the bars, so I didn't need that short of a top tube. I thought the bikes they had me try were a bit big, but I wonder if that is because the bike I used to own was quite small. I found them helpful, but also a bit intimidating. They carry Giant, Cannondale and Trek bikes.

Anyway, I tried a number of comfort hybrids, cos initially, I felt a little nervous about the preformance ones. But then, at another store, I tried a Devinci Amsterdam and fell in love with it, but was still waffling, just wasn't sure of what I wanted.

Back at Fort street cycles, I tried the Cannondale Roadwarrior 800 in a nifty Orange colour (See it at http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/07/cusa/recreation/road_warrior/model-7HR8.html). But, I didn't buy it, cos I wasn't sure it would fit into my needs - really, I think I was just nervous.

What I bought instead was the Cannondale adventure 600 which is more of a comfort hybrid it has suspension just above the fork (Headshock, they call it) and fatter tires, but it definately is not as speedy as the Roadwarrior, and I just don't love it! :confused: (you can see it at http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/06/CUSA/model-6AS6.html). I feel all slow and kinda bogged down, vs the R. warrior, with its slender frame and carbon fork.:D

The point is, I want to return the Adventure 600 and get the Roadwarrior, or maybe one of their Treks, if some of you think those might be more appropriate - I would love advice about them too, but I don't have a particular Trek model in mind - I'm open :D .

The guy who fit me was concerned that the Road warrior which he described as having "more of a road frame really" would not be as durable/appropriate with the child seat on, and since I like the more upright, seat a bit lower than the handlebars, he thought that I would do better with the comfort hybrid.

So I want to know:

Will carbon forks "soften" the road vibration any? The Road Warrior had carbon forks, but the Trek I tried did not. Will I do fine without suspension? Or would it really help on easy trails? (by wich I mean quite kid freindly ones).

Will the Road warrior be sturdy, or okay for more recreational riding with child, and with the odd trail?

Would I do better to just keep the adventure 600, bearing my needs in mind? Help! I don't want to outgrow my bike, and I can't afford two right now, so keeping this one and getting a flat-bar road bike is not the answer right now.

Sorry this is so long! I look forward to your advice, and thank you.

Chakra

[Popoki_Nui]

Hi Chakra:
Do I take it you're in the Victoria area? You have lots of bike concerns; if it would help, please feel free to email me. I'll be happy to help you via email, or phone (probably easier!).
Welcome to TE. :)

~Sherry in Metchosin.
email: tikinui AT trooper DOT ca

[mimitabby]

the carbon will definitely soften your ride on that bike.
I like the orange one too :)

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about shocks and stuff. what kind of riding are you going to be doing? My bike doesn't have any shocks, I ride on the streets.

It does sound like they are trying to get you to buy a bike without considering what you want.

The last thing; i am not sure about is whether one bike would be better to pull your kid trailer or not.

[KnottedYet]

Two things:
1. If you don't love the bike now, you won't love it later.

2. Bike seats for kiddos scare me. Can you buy a used trailer instead? Use the bike you love to pull the trailer, ride the bike you love by yourself when you are on your own. (it works)

(so I'm advocating returning the bike you didn't really want in the first place, buying the bike you fell in love with, and getting a trailer for the kiddo.)

BTW: handlebar height really is adjustable. I ride my road bike with the handlebars higher than the saddle. And she ain't no comfort bike. It might take a new stem or whatever, but it's all good! :D

[uforgot]

I think you already know what you want to do. You don't love it...everytime I compromise and 2nd guess myself on something like that, I'm unhappy. I used to have a Trek Navigator which looks something like your Cannondale but is a lot cheaper. It has suspension, but found that I really didn't need it. I upgraded to a Trek 7.2fx which doesn't have suspension, but you can ride it on rail trails too. It's also cheaper. If you are hauling around your children, the suspension will slow you down and add weight. I've already upgraded to a road bike from the Trek, so I'm glad I didn't plunk a lot of money down.

I really think you should take it back, explain that you want more time to think about your needs, and that you don't want to be pressured. (aka no restocking fee. $180 seems kind of high. Maybe negotiate it down to $50?). You could even score a lower priced Raleigh or Trek on craigslist or in your local newspaper.

[mimitabby]

Gee, I hope she didn't buy the bike from that shop in Connecticut!

[chakra]

I really value all the great advice - thank you!

I'm not sure there is any getting out of the 20% restocking fee - the exception may be buying a second bike through them - the Road Warrior (lets call it RW for short) I liked was more money, so they'd be doing just fine out of me, regardless.

If they were to charge me the restocking fee *even if* I buy the RW, I will definately take my business elsewhere. For me, buying a second bike through them is contingent upon them waiving the restocking fee.

So really, I would be willing to take the hit - the question is whether that cannondale RW or a Trek is the better choice. I'd rather end the relationship decently, and leave them feeling compensated for their service, the time and energy they put into helping me. Does that seem fair?

As for the bike seat - those rides would strictly be tootling around and not on main roads - I do not intend to train/ride hard/commute with the toddler in there. My older two ride with training wheels still, so wwe are all going quite slowly! The lbs have been great about explaining the advantages of the trailers, and risks of the seat. If I find I am riding with the toddler lots (more than the odd Sunday ride) I will consider a trailer. Why do bike seats scare you? I am really curious about people's experience using them.

Thank you so much - this is really helping me.

Mitra

[mimitabby]

Mitra
28 years ago, I put my tot on a bike seat and every time he moved he almost threw the bike. he was an adorable little guy but squirmy. (I never used that thing again!)
I only went around the block on that bike, it was much much too scary.
I can see how it would be better to have the tot in a trailer, where he couldn't fall or knock you off balance.

[KnottedYet]

The seats scare me for a lot of reasons, not least of which is if the bike goes over, so does the kiddo. I still think about the toddlers with closed head injuries I treated during my pediatric physical therapy rotation.

Getting on and off the bike with the kid in the seat can be a real challenge. Holding the bike steady while putting the kid in the seat or getting them out of the seat can get hairy.

Kid can't move much in the seat, and can't bring toys juice riding buddy, etc.

Kid is as unprotected as you from bugs, dirt, wind, rain, sun.

Kid's view is pretty limited.

Just things to think about.

(while you're getting that silly restocking fee waived and buying the bike you love! Don't be afraid to tell them they pressured you into buying the bike you didn't really want.)

Edit: did you see this thread on trailers? http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?p=190464#post190464

[uforgot]

I rode both of my kids on one of those and it makes me shudder today. Of course, we didn't wear helmets in the 80s, but they had absolutely no protection if I fell over...(which I didn't) and without a helmet? It was just plain stupid. I would have loved to have had the trailer option. I see them all the time and people don't seem to have much trouble with them and there is always one on craigslist or ebay.

[Triskeliongirl]

I do not recommend the kid seat on the rear. I did have those for my kids 15+ years ago, because that was all there was, but a child trailer is MUCH safer. A child is much more hurt in a fall from a seat than trailer. Trailers are designed to not tip even if the bike falls, and even if they tip the child is strapped in and protected. So, irrespective of which bike you buy, I would plan to use a child trailer rather than a seat, or a tag-a-long when the child is old enough. Secondly, buy the bike you love, but maybe through them so they won't charge you the restocking fee, but even if they do its cheaper than being stuck with a bike you don't enjoy. You don't need suspension unless you plan to ride off road, just get a basic road bike for road riding.

[MomOnBike]

Life is too short to ride a bike you don't like. Get one you can love.

As for the kid seats, I agree with everyone here. Don't do it. There are better options out there.

[run it, ride it]

I remember riding in one of those bike seats. It was terrifying being strapped in there. My mom would lean the bike up against a wall while she got the mail and I was afraid to flinch. I'm sure the bike almost fell countless times, and lord knows my helmet didn't fit snug enough to be all that safe.

And I was the kid who took the wagon down giant hills and crashed into the bushes for fun.

[Kano]

[QUOTE=KnottedYet;190426]
Getting on and off the bike with the kid in the seat can be a real challenge. Holding the bike steady while putting the kid in the seat or getting them out of the seat can get hairy.

Kid can't move much in the seat, and can't bring toys juice riding buddy, etc.

Kid is as unprotected as you from bugs, dirt, wind, rain, sun.

Kid's view is pretty limited.
QUOTE]

There's no side pocket for storing the boogers. (remember last fall, Xander getting me to watch him put a booger in the pocket while DH trailed him? He had just turned two at the time.)

Then there's the ever-embarrassing "DON'T FART AT ME GRANDPA!" when they're sitting right behind one's behind!

Gotta love those two year olds!

Fortunately, when I had a little squirt that I was toting on one of those back seats, in that pre-helmet era, my bike was a step through frame. We didn't do it often -- as Knotted says, it was incredibly difficult to get her safely in the seat and me on mine! Heaven forbid she wiggled!

Karen in Boise

[JenLeath]

I have never heard of a restocking fee for a local bike shop. I have for ordering it, if they don't carry it. I would definitely challenge that. Call anonymously and ask how to contact the owner. Tell him about your experience and that you are not happy with your purchase, but returning the bike would turn out to be too expensive. I bet he would be willing to work something out. From what I have seen about bike shop owners, they love the sport and wouldn't want to be responsible for someone having a bad experience.

Good Luck,

Jen L

[chakra]

Everyone,

Thank you so much for the wonderful responses, which gave me the courage to go back to the bike store with the bike. I asked about the restocking fee, and I think it would have applied if I had not decided to go ahead and buy the Road Warrior :D . As soon as I saw it again, glinting in its orangey fashion at me, I had to have it!! So, they charged me for the labor it took to set up the last bike (fenders, rack etc.) and that was all. They made good money on me too, the RW was another $400.00!

As for the Copilot Limo (the seat for our 2Year old) it was a special order (they usally stock the model below, it the Taxi) so they were not so willing to refund that one. However, I think they'd be willing to work it out if I tried it and didn't feel good using it (it is on order and due to arrive by this weekend). Dh is very keen on giving it a go, and I am less keen after all the input from you. One thing is for sure - if ds appears at all scared, or dh at all unstable, we certainly won't use it, it isn't worth it. So I'll wait and see on this one, and I'll push for a return or at least an exchange if keeping it isn't right for us.

I am glad to have found a bike I really enjoy riding - I took her out for a spin this evening, but it was with the kids, so I haven't been able to really put her through her paces - but oh my, what a smooth responsive ride!! I don't know how she'd do on trails of any kind - I had the tires changed, but the bike has pretty narrow rims - it moved her up from 700cc/28 to 30s, and that is as fat as they can get. She is pretty much a flat bar road bike, but I am not sorry! :p

Even though they were good about taking the bike back, I have to say the owner (Fort Street bikes) didn't go out of his way to be helpful. He was a litle grim-faced about the whole thing. After my fitting, and except for the free tune-ups they do, I won't have much to do with this store. I don't wish to bad-mouth them - there just wasn't the warmth/interest in really being a help to me. Given that I have now spent over $1,800 in their store, I find that to be a problem :mad: (bike, fenders, lights, tires, rack, panniers, child seat...).

In making the decsion, I had two sources which really helped: You lot at team estrogen, and another bike store (Oak bay bicycles, for those in my city). DH and our kids' bikes come from this store, so they know all of us quite well. I went in to ask them about bikes, kids seats, and all the questions I posed to you, and even showed them the cannondale RW on their internet connection - they were absolutely lovely in helping me decide. :) I will be sending people there, and will purchase any components/clothing there for sure. Much warmer, kinder service. If they had had anything like the RW in stock there, I think I'd have just dealt with losing that restocking fee, or would have argued about it at least.

But really, I have learned I should trust my gut, go with the shop that really treats you right, get the thing you really love, and then. . . well, then get on with what really matters, which is riding again!;)

Thank you so, so much for all the help.

Chakra

[KnottedYet]

congratulations!

Now, post some pics of your beautiful new bike! (we like pictures!):D

Your 30 tires should do just fine for you. I have 28's that I take on everything (including grassy fields for bike skills practice) on my roadie. Cyclocross racers have tires in this range, and you should see the stuff they ride through!

Hoooray for your new bike!!!

[MINIskirt]

Congrats on the new bike!!! :D

[KnottedYet]

Just a snarky side comment:
I've never heard of a shop that wouldn't refund/return an ordered item that hadn't even arrived at the shop yet.

Ok, I'm done being snarky.

[mimitabby]

without a re-stocking fee you mean? :cool:

[KnottedYet]

I'm thinking about the baby-seat, which isn't supposed to arrive until this weekend. "they were not so willing to refund that one." Special order or not, the seat hasn't even arrived, so why would they fight cancelling/refunding?

and no, what's with the restocking fee!?!?!

Oak Bay Cycles sounds like a better match for an LBS. Hey, they were even helpful about a bike being purchased at another store! They sound good. :D

[mimitabby]

until i met Smart Cycles, I had never heard of a restocking fee for anything except orders of small inexpensive items which cost more to handle than they are worth. APparently it's another way for small businesses to make some $$.

[pooks]

That's a gorgeous bike, that orange Road Warrior!

I got hit with a restocking fee at a national computer store and wrote a letter to the CEO (copied to the store manager) that was so brilliantly scathing the store manager called me before the store opened two days later and said, "The check is in the mail."

I was so steamed about that.

Especially since the salesguy had been inadequate and had misunderstood the way that laptop worked, and it wasn't until I got home and opened it that I realized it wouldn't work for me! Took it back the same day, and they said, "10% restocking fee."

I've never been in that store again and that was years ago. And I can't remember the name of the store, or I'd say it!

[Aint Doody]

In defense of small businesses--with our suppliers if we order something from them, we must pay a restocking fee if we return it. So--in good faith a small business orders something for a customer. It arrives. The customer changes his/her mind. Then either the small business is stuck with it or has to return it and pay a restocking fee. Usually something ordered like that isn't a big mover--hence the reason for the special order. So try to be understanding when it comes to a restocking fee for a special order. If we have it in stock, then, no, there's no restocking fee.

[pooks]

That makes sense for a small biz, Ain't.

[chakra]

In defense of small businesses--with our suppliers if we order something from them, we must pay a restocking fee if we return it. So--in good faith a small business orders something for a customer. It arrives. The customer changes his/her mind. Then either the small business is stuck with it or has to return it and pay a restocking fee. Usually something ordered like that isn't a big mover--hence the reason for the special order. So try to be understanding when it comes to a restocking fee for a special order. If we have it in stock, then, no, there's no restocking fee.

Yes, that is why I do understand their POV. What bothered me in the end was not the store policies, but the attitude. It would have been nice if they had been willing to acknowledge my concerns. And the restocking fee, as applied to the bikes, was not for a special order. They would have charged me that if I hadn't bought another bike through them. You'd think they would have been happier, they sole me a more expensive bike, but nooooo, the guy was hatchet-faced all the way! I don't get that. . .

As for the special order, I sure understand about a restocking fee applying to that. Not quite sure what will happen there, but I do feel that the shop is fair - just not going out of their way to be pleasant, it seems.

Anyway, yeah! It is a nice bike! And today, I went to my FRIENDLY lbs and bought a jacket, and a helmet cover. They even did 20% off on the jacket, and it is a good all-weather (not too heavy) one. All I need are rain pants!

Chakra

[uforgot]

Your 30 tires should do just fine for you. I have 28's that I take on everything (including grassy fields for bike skills practice) on my roadie. Cyclocross racers have tires in this range, and you should see the stuff they ride through!

Hoooray for your new bike!!!

Knotted, what tires do you have? I'm going to 28's on my road bike, but I'm not sure what to get. I want a more all round tire than the little slick 23s I have on there now, and my rims support up to 28.

Maybe I just need to put you on speedial. The last two weekends I've asked your advice...

Chakra, congrats! Sounds like you found a bike you love. I, too, want to see pics!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I have Pasela brand Panaracer tires 700x28mm, with kevlar (to help prevent flats) on my road bike. I can and have ridden over the most god-awful sharp rocky gravel roads you can imagine, including through fields of tractor ruts, too...several thousand miles....no flats yet.

By the way, I do NOT inflate them to their stated maximum pressure of 105 psi. I keep the back tires at around 95, and the fronts at about 85. That keeps my ride way smoother, gives me more stability on slippery gravel and in wind (and NO, it has not slowed my average speed down- I compared my average speeds with when I pumped up both to 105). :rolleyes: Remember when your tires are super inflated and hard, they will bounce more and have less road contact. That can translate to less traction, more wasted vertical bounce movement, and thus loss of forward power.
I realize a lot of people disagree with this, but I figured I'd throw it in anyway. Works for me.

[uforgot]

Wow, thanks Lisa! I really wanted a tire that would go on my road bike, but on light gravel also. Sounds like what you have is just the ticket. Thanks!

[KnottedYet]

I have Vittoria Randonneurs with reflective sidewalls. 700 x 28.

I've ridden on grass, asphalt, broken asphalt, and small gravel. They are low pressure tires, max inflate is around what Lisa uses. Very comfortable!

[uforgot]

I have Vittoria Randonneurs with reflective sidewalls. 700 x 28.

I've ridden on grass, asphalt, broken asphalt, and small gravel. They are low pressure tires, max inflate is around what Lisa uses. Very comfortable!


Thanks Knotted. I did a search on these and Lisa's and my favorite lbs carries these, so I guess I'll have to make the trip there soon. Next weekend maybe we can discuss headlamps? waterbottles?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Claudia,
Dumb question, but...I assume you already know whether 28mm wide tires will indeed FIT on your road bike, right? :o (Also, if you have fenders, will they fit WITH the fender clearance as well?)

[uforgot]

Claudia,
Dumb question, but...I assume you already know whether 28mm wide tires will indeed FIT on your road bike, right? :o (Also, if you have fenders, will they fit WITH the fender clearance as well?)

Thanks for the headsup, but I did check. The 28mm is the maximum I can use. No fenders.

[KnottedYet]

Next weekend maybe we can discuss headlamps? waterbottles?

Poly-something water bottles from Soma. They don't grow cooties! (I have 3 of them and Trek has them, too.)

http://www.somafab.com/bottle.html

[chakra]

In the end, I coudn't bring myself to keep that Cannondale RW, because every time I went into the shop, I felt the disinterest and disdain of the owner and his fit specialist - they are really an "elite racer" shop, as it turns out, and in the negative sense of the word... I just could not bear to do business with them.

So I took the RW back - I lost money on it, and they wouldn't take the child seat back (since it was a special order) so it remains in our garage unused to this day! Turns out DH cannot use it on his bike, he has a disk-compatible rack, which is not compatible with the seat!! Gonna try to sell it on craigslist or some such. . .

The Good News

And now I have two bikes! An Electra townie with an 8 speed internal hub, for tootling around town, riding with the kids, maybe to xtracycle one of these days. . . a very nice, slow-riding couch of a bike! I feel no need for speed on this baby! Bought at an absolutely lovely lbs, with a wonderful attitude and great enthusiasm for riding and for *all* riders.

And. . .

A Surly Long Haul Trucker!! She's being built up by another lovely lbs who have shown great kindness and patience over innumerable test rides and wafflings! She should be ready by midweek next week! I think that I will be getting the best feel in terms of speed, smooth ride (a lovely ride- I tried her in the 52, a touch large, so I'm getting the 50cm) nice solid feel, v. responsive. . . anyway, I'm excited!

I really like having two bikes that are so differant from each other, and sort of represent two very differant sides of me - I like speed, and enjoy long rides (even though I'll confess I don't know how often I'll be able to fit them in) and I am glad I'll have a bike as versatile as the LHT (it can handle a huge number of tire widths, fender clearance is not a problem, it can have front racks too, and is good and comfy for long rides as well as commutes. Anyway, I'll stop gushing!

What I Learned (a specific and opinionated list):

Find a good shop. Having an LBS you trust, like and can ask questions without feeling silly is really important. They should love riding. They should really want to help you find the bike you will love, and will ride. They should be willing to change out the saddle, fit the bike properly, and answer all your questions. Most important, they should be willing to help you figure out what you really need and want in a bike. In return, you'll drag all your friend to their door, and will proclaim about them enthusiastically to all!

North Park Bicycle Shop and Fairfield Bicycles, you really go the distance!:)

Maybe you do need more than one bike. But before you buy more than one, ride, ride, ride. And not just on sunny days! Make sure this is the sport for you before you spend loads of hard-earned cash! Borrow bikes and try them out. Test ride over and over. Buy second hand! Because I learned that what you think you want is not necessarily what you need, or will ride. Bike lust can be indiscriminate!

Don't let your ego get in the way when buying a bike. I love my townie, but was afraid to buy one at first, lest I seem um, not sporty enough. Riding it makes me happy, and not remotely competitive. I put tons of stuff in the front basket, and with its dynamo lights and 700c wheels, we git aroun' jus' fine.

I know I will love the LHT too - and in choosing it I wasn't looking for a cool, fast bike. I was looking for what felt right to ride, and what would make ME happy.

The only thing I'll miss? My Townie is a lovely burgundy, and the LHT is blue. I have a thing for orange bikes, but I'll live :D I think someday the LHT will get a new powder coat. . .

Thanks for all the consideration, care, and help from all you wonderful experienced riders.

Chakra

[mimitabby]

wow! Pooks has a bike like your Electra, and Knot has a bike (I think) like your Surly.

WE WANT PICTURES! I am sorry you wasted the money on the kid seat,
but I'm glad you now have two lovely bikes that you are happy with.
did I say; Pictures are nice?

:)

[singletrackmind]

The co-pilot limo has a good resale value....watch them on ebay to see what they're going for. :)

And yeah, pictures!

[Popoki_Nui]

Glad everything worked out (well, more or less) for you, Chakra. I've been wondering how things were going.
Hope to see you on the roads and trails!

~Sherry.