climbing, hopping, descending

[Biking Kitsune]

Just curious...

I've wanted to get into mt. biking (just a little, I'm not a very aggro person on a bike (well not yet, anyway);)

I'd like to learn some of the techniques for hopping, and just how one would position one's body while descending (like down a very short set of steps, etc) so one can do that kind of thing without killing oneself!:p

I used to play around like that at home with my old bike, but a bent frame and a couple of shifters that didn't shift *quite right* later, I was strongly discouraged from it (Mom didn't want to buy any new bikes;) )

So... I figure: Now I'm a big girl, I should learn how to do it properly instead of looking like a stunt-biker gone wrong, in a spray of gravel and a flurry of limbs everywhere! :rolleyes:

Any suggestions (beyond Irulan's tips) are really welcome (I've already pored over those, and am just looking for a little more ;) )

[Irulan]

for steps, just find some wide ones with out a lot of drop and play. As long as you don't panic grab, you'll be surprised at how easy it is.

http://trials-online.com/ this site Trials Online has lots of little movies about all the different unweighting technieques. Manual, wheelies, it's all here. There are tons of sites devoted to these things

I find you just have to keep trying and build on it. One thing we do that's fun is ride around some of the parks in play mode. That way the pressure is off and you can just mess around and try things. I"m still getting a lot of the front unweight moves, I feel happy if I can get my front wheel up on a 4" thing.

have you checked out the Sugoi Dirt camp in Hood River this summer? It's only $150, what a deal for a weekend of coaching.

http://www.dirtseries.com/lsds_schedule.html That would be much better for you than any of us trying to explain it.

Following riders better than you is always a good way to learn.

penny

[Biking Kitsune]

Is it cruel and unusual punishment to try to do these things on a hybrid bike? (punishment for the bike, I mean):confused: I've heard of pinchflats, but I'd think that if I didn't give my frame a royal beating and kept my tires fully inflated, it wouldn't do too much damage...

[Irulan]

it would be a lot more fun on a mtn bike, that's for sure. This is where I am really not an expert, but as you get into more technical stuff, body english and geomerty can really make a difference.

I've only pinch flatted once, last week as a matter of fact, when I was a little out of control and ran inot some rocks. I did a slo-mo feet first save, and then ssssssssssss. Killed that tube!!

honestly, I think you'll have to work harder for success on a hybrid due to the goemetry. Some thing you can do to a hybrid to make it more mountain friendly are make sure you have a narrow saddle (it's really hard to get back on one that is wide) lower your handlesbars and stem for a less upright body position and make sure you have a decent front fork on it.

Penny

edit: I'd be more worried about you hurting you than the bike. If your hybrid is anything like the steel recreation hybrid turned mtn bike that I started on, you won't be able to kill it. :D

[Biking Kitsune]

it's a Huffy men's bike, 26'' wheels. It seems pretty sturdy. (if it isn't it WAS only $10 at Good Will and has about $70 of new brakes etc on it... My seat's a nice narrow one with a cut-out that suits my girlie parts pretty well... :D I was thinking all I'd really have to do is lower the seat (the handle bars are as low as they go) before trying to do the hoppy stuff. I'm basically just working on getting over roots and rocks in the trail, maybe some minor curb-hopping, too... not much of the WILD stuff I saw on that site you suggested, though those video clips are really awesome =) Thanks for all your help =)

[sno4rent]

I agree with Irulan - sign up for the Sugoi Dirt Series Camp!!! I just got back from the Sun Valley camp and it was EXCELLENT!!! We learned a TON of stuff and in regards to what you are wanting to learn, they cover it ALL and then some!!! "Manuals", higher speed move where you push down on the front shock and then pull up (good for getting over puddles or not so wide creeks and keeping you dry), bunny-hops, wheelie-drops where you actually pedal and pull up on the front to drop off of something high (curb, giant boulder, row of 3-5 steps...), and a simple drop off with a lunge move - no lifting of front wheel. Anyways, the camp is WELL WORTH THE MONEY and it's fun! They will also help fit your bike to YOUR body.

~ Wendi

[Irulan]

so I guess you had a good time??!!!!! Camp in Rossland in three weeks for me. I am so bummed.. my roomie had to cancel due to a relative's illness! So I have this house up there to stay in and everything...

irulan

[sno4rent]

It was a BLAST!!! Super great coaching, super great participants!!! For my first ever mtn. bike "camp" - I give it an A++++. They said they will probably do Sun Valley again next year (camp was full) and we are hoping to talk them into doing Boise as well since there are a TON more female mtn. bikers here in town. Sorry your roomie bagged out - mine bagged out too for possible gallbladder surgery but then re-enlisted when she found out she could hold off on it AND we had an additional gal go too that we knew. Enjoy your camp!!! Let me know how it goes!

~ Wendi

[Biking Kitsune]

I couldn't figure out for the life of me why I couldn't get my front tire off the ground, even when I virtually *sat* on my back tire... Then, at my hubby's suggestion, I weighed it. My steel horse weighs in at about 47#. at 120, I'm having the darnedest time playing with it, so camp might have to wait until I can trade my Belgian in for an Arabian. ;) Ah well... I can always practice trackstands. Anyone hear of how Terry Susan B's handle that kind of riding? Does Terry MAKE a mtn bike?

[Irulan]

*cough* *hack* your bike weighs HOW much? Girl, we need to talk!! If you are getting interested in mtb, that really is a lot of weight, even for a recreationol/hybrid. No wonder you are frustrated!! I thought 33 was a lot.. that's how much my first bike weighed.

as for your unweighting, that's totally techinique and rider, has nothing to do with weight of the bike...even DH riders can do those moves with thier 50# rigs. Don't take this the wrong way.. some of that stuff can be really tricky to learn, or at least it is for me.

OTOH last time I went to camp, my gf showed up with her antique no suspenion rockhopper, "the studebakers" and she learned to hop it over a 6" log!!

irulan

[Veronica]

Hey! I'm riding an antique Rockhopper with no suspension. :D

V.

[Biking Kitsune]

then is it a matter of pulling up *real* hard on the handle bars or something? I can't get the bugger more than about half an inch off the ground...

[Irulan]

er, I"ll try describe it but remember I'm just starting to get the hang of this stuff myself.

It's almost a split second "snap" move that involves compression/pressure/weighting of the front end and then unweighting/lift combined with a subtle weight shift of your body. Sorry I don't know how else to describe it. See what it feels like both to be in the neutral position, and while sitting on your seat. It should come easier when you are out of the saddle.

Get a small thing to practice on... a 1"x1" peice of wood, and just play with the idea.

A lighter bike would help tho. :D

(Honey, the gals over at TE said I really need a real mountain bike....:cool: )

~irulan

[Irulan]

Originally posted by Veronica
Hey! I'm riding an antique Rockhopper with no suspension. :D

V.

it was pretty funny at camp... one of the coaches said... There always has to be one....":rolleyes:

irulan

[Irulan]

Originally posted by Biking Kitsune
then is it a matter of pulling up *real* hard on the handle bars or something? I can't get the bugger more than about half an inch off the ground...

hey 1/2 an inch is a great start! It's not always an easy skill to get. So keep at it...

~I.

[bounceswoosh]

Originally posted by Biking Kitsune
then is it a matter of pulling up *real* hard on the handle bars or something? I can't get the bugger more than about half an inch off the ground...

I've been to a bunch of women's clinics in the last few weeks. One thing Tonya Laffey said is that, while most men can get away with just yanking on the bars, women often don't have the strength and need to finesse it. Let me try to paraphrase what she described:

First, let your elbows bend so that you have somewhere to go. Then, pull up the bike. Your elbows will still be bent at the start of this move. It's really hard to pull dead weight with straight arms. (I'm really sure I'm missing something here, but making sure to compress your arms first is definitely the first step.)

Another thing the Lunachix suggested was to think of your arms as describing a backwards C. You can imagine your elbows bent at the start of the move, then straightening out to compress the fork and build up some spring-type tension, then elbows bending again as you pull the bike up.

I hope one of these two descriptions helps you a little bit and that neither of them are too confusing. It's hard to describe without physically demonstrating it.

[Irulan]

well I don't know about you guys, but unweighting skills are among the ones I find the most difficult to do. They are top of my list for things to work on at camp this year. I mean, if I can get *just* the front over something 3" I get all happy... forget the lifting the front AND then the back wheel. I watch these guys do that with 12 logs and I am just astounded. Anything bigger than 3" I either just try the old "bump into and ride over" method, or what the heck, dismount and remount. I'd really like to be able to do the unwieghting on stuff that I run into when climbing... but any attempt to unwieght while climbing tends to want to send the bike over backwards....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

irulan

[Biking Kitsune]

I don't know that I do enough riding for hybrids to be totally worth it, and I would like to work on my mtn. biking etc.... do you know of any nice, light-ish (under 30#) and fairly inexpensive (under about $500) womanny mountainbikes or their manufacturers?

[Irulan]

what do you mean by womany? Don't get real hung up on that you need Women Specific Design, there are a lot of good bikes out there that don't have that.

I feel pretty stongly that hybrids are a compromise... they are certainly limited for a mountain biking experince, and I would imagine that you can only grow so far as a roadie on one, too. But for an occasional foray around the neighbor hood or bike path, they are probalby a great thing.

Specialized and Giant make some great entry level mountain bikes that would be very suitable. For your interest based on your posts, I think the "right tool for the job" would really make a difference in your trail experience.

just my 2¢ of course.

Penny

[Biking Kitsune]

Started checking out bikes... the Specialized Hardrock Sport looks like the best deal for the money, haven't seen any bad reviews of it online anywhere. I'm thinking about bugging my honey for it as a b-day present. *seriously wonders if she could somehow make up an important gift-type holiday between now and then that would warrant a gift like that...*;)
Have you heard anything good/bad about them? (Hardrocks)

[bounceswoosh]

Penny,

I definitely agree that anything involving purposeful separation of tire and ground is tough -- especially going uphill!

At one of the lunachix clinics, I mentioned this, and they made us ride up a hill and pop our wheels up over a two by four on the way, over and over again. It really helped.

I think the trick is to practice on stuff that's so small you would normally just roll over it. There's a bridge on one of my rides that has a little lip -- maybe an inch or two -- where it meets up with the dirt road. Whenever I cross that bridge, I make a point of lifting my front wheel over the lip, and then lifting my front wheel again as I come down off the bridge (it's one ofthe type that arcs over the stream). Then, at the top of the first real climb of that trail, there are a several water bars -- depending on how much "oomph" I have left, I try to lift my wheel over at least a couple of them.

The theory is that I will get comfortable timing the lifts on trivial stuff, and eventually get to the point where I will be confident enough to try it on bigger things. That hasn't happened yet, though =P

[Irulan]

Originally posted by Biking Kitsune
Started checking out bikes... the Specialized Hardrock Sport looks like the best deal for the money, haven't seen any bad reviews of it online anywhere. I'm thinking about bugging my honey for it as a b-day present. *seriously wonders if she could somehow make up an important gift-type holiday between now and then that would warrant a gift like that...*;)
Have you heard anything good/bad about them? (Hardrocks)

seriously, I have only heard good things about the entry level specialized and Giants. And with the bike-tech-parts guys I know, I hear about everything. Those Hardrocks have got a lot people started on the trails.

Early birthday works for me...

~I

[bounceswoosh]

When I was recently looking for tips on bikes, the "Specialized" word showed up all over the place. People with Specialized bikes love 'em.

Different price range than yours, but I'd think the principle would still hold.

[Veronica]

If you're going to ride a lot and you can afford the extra $ a Rockhopper Comp would be my bike of choice - better, more durable components, more precise shifting.

If $500 is the limit I'd go with a base Rockhopper rather than a Hardrock to get the better components.

Here's a funny thought - Rockhoppers cost now about about the same as they did when we bought ours 10 years ago!

V.

[Irulan]

I think Veronica has it right.

~irulan

[fultzie]

I was in the same situation as you a few months ago- tried riding a hybrid on some singletrack and did more damage to myself (namely my knee) than my tank of a bike.
I just bought a Specialized Rockhopper Comp, and it is awesome. Heck, just having front shocks makes a ton of difference!! :p
I've heard nothing but good things about Specialized bikes, and the guys at my mom's LBS adore Specialized, so the only debate was between the comp and the regular :) i tried both, but i haven't been riding long enough to have noticed a heckuva lot of difference in the feel of each, aside from the comp having more gears ;)
either way, i'd agree with the other posters in that specialized is a great value.
good luck and have fun bike hunting! :)

[Barb]

I never hear anything about Kona. Any opinions out there? I was thinking of the Kona Blast for my fisrt MTN. I know, I knopw I jsut got my new road bike, but honestly....a girl can shop can't she?

[Irulan]

first thing always is FIT FIT FIT. I don't know much about Konas as a line... tho I do ride one of thier top end FS bikes. Got a link to the speficic bike that you can post? Again, I will reiterate that Giant has the repitation for the most bang for the buck in entry level mtbs. As I told Bounceswoosh somewere... If you stick with a reputable manufacturer and a real bike shop, there are probably no bad bikes. It's when you shop at Costco or Walmart or Gart ( or any non-bike specialty store) that you really can make a mistake.

irulan

[formicalinoleum]

Originally posted by Biking Kitsune
I don't know that I do enough riding for hybrids to be totally worth it, and I would like to work on my mtn. biking etc.... do you know of any nice, light-ish (under 30#) and fairly inexpensive (under about $500) womanny mountainbikes or their manufacturers?

I have always had Giants, and have been very happy with them. I first had an Iguana (was about $400 when I got it) and now have their top-of-the-line "recreational", the Ranier ($700-800). I think the Iguana is better now than the model I had (and correspondingly more expensive).

Definitely test ride a number of bikes, but I do suggest making sure some Giants are among those you try out.

p.s. both of those mtn bikes and my road bike have all been men's. I have short legs and a long torso, so women's-specific (WSD) bikes aren't for me. Try men's and WSD bikes and see what feels good for you.

[formicalinoleum]

btw, watching those trials videos really makes me wanna get out on my bike! I've been only road riding for the past couple of weeks and really miss my mtn bike now.

Oh, and I'm new. I'm Liz. I've been mtn biking for a few years (with a female friend) and just starting road cycling.