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  1. #61
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    north woods of Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,110

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    Wider spaced knobs are better for mud and wet sand or, for that matter, even snow. That is correct. With closely spaced knobs, the tires quickly clog up with mud and wet sand and lose their "bite". MTB tires tend to be very specialized in tread design and need to be chosen, carefully, for the types of trails you ride. The wrong kind of tread for your trail can greatly reduce performance and actually be dangerous. For instance, those big tall aggressive knobs may be just the thing for riding dirt, because the tire sinks into the dirt and the knobs can do their thing and bite. Not a good choice for riding on rock, though, or even hardpack, because then you're riding on top of the knobs and you actually lose tire surface area in contact with the trail and that can greatly reduce traction.

    To make things even more complicated, it's also very much a matter of the tire compound used in the tire. Those old heavy duty nylon MTB tires we used to use were almost impossible to wear out, but they had so little give to them that they were harsh to ride and were notorious for lacking traction at times. Believe me, it's not just tread design, but also the compounds used. My riding on icy hard pack snow really shows the importance of this. Even with the same basic tread design on my different fat bikes, some tires offer much better traction than others on the slick stuff, the difference being that some tire compounds are stickier than others.

    My trails are all dirt, now that I no longer allow myself to climb boulders. What works best for me are XC MTB race tires as long as the trail is dry. Plenty of traction, but, more importantly for my single speeds, great rolling speed. They don't call them XC race tires for nothing. Huge difference between riding these and an aggressive dirt tire. When things go wet and mushy, I just switch to one of the fat bikes and wait till the trail dries before riding the other bikes. These same XC race tires also do a great job on pavement and are ideal for gravel.

    My 700c road bike single speed is my Nature Boy and it rides on 700x38 Gravel Kings. I lose some rolling speed, but not too much. Great tire, though, for wet pavement. Lots of traction, there.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Concord, MA
    Posts
    13,394
    Molly, I did not ride on the Katy Trail; we were visiting my brother in law, who lives near there. We went to some of the wineries, which were a long the trail.
    It looked nice, but I think I'd want wide tires.
    2015 Trek Silque SSL
    Specialized Oura

    2011 Guru Praemio
    Specialized Oura
    2017 Specialized Ariel Sport

  3. #63
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    north woods of Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,110
    I like Surly bikes, too. They're all steel bikes made extra tough, so always a good value. Chose carefully, though, according to your intended use. If you plan to ride mostly pavement and gravel for day rides, I'd stay with their lighter built models. I had an ECR and traded it off. Great bike, but not a good match for my riding. I'm a single day, out and back rider, on our paved and gravel roads. The ECR is a heavy built bike, designed to carry a full load of camping gear and a week's worth of supplies to remote places. Without a load, it's very stiff riding bike and way, way heavier than I need, and so a real tank to pedal. I'm not a weight weenie, but the bike was as heavy as some of my fat bikes. Make no mistake, a heavy bike and, especially, bigger heavier tires, are more work to pedal. I've pedaled a heavy fat bike on 30 miles on pavement, mostly to see what it was like. No problem for the bike, but I've done 60 mile trips on a road bike that didn't fatigue me as much.

    Loved the idea of a bike that can carry me into the wilderness and back with everything but the kitchen sink and I still love the idea, but, hey, I'm just riding around the local roads, never more than 20 miles or so from home, carrying nothing more than the basics. My road riding is 90% pavement and the rest gravel, most of which can be handled with a drop bar 700x35 gravel bike. My current single speeds that I use for road rides all weigh 23 pounds and the widest tire is a standard 2.25" MTB tire, setup tubeless. Riding those really makes it hard to drag out a fat bike or even an ECR weighing a full 10 pounds more. Again, I'm not a fanatic on weight, but if you plan to ride out there on pavement or gravel and put in a lot of miles, think about how much bike you want to pedal. It's important.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    105
    Muirenn, I thought this was "art photography" until I opened it up. But what you're saying is the raised areas aren't as deep as some.
    Last edited by MollyJ; 10-29-2018 at 05:08 AM.
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5 WSD

    2011 Trek FX7.2--What can I say? It was on sale!

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    105
    NWG, Both of my bikes are so light that I can lift them easily (at age 62) into the bed of my truck. I AM wary of weight. A slow, heavy bike made me not like cycling as much. I noticed a big difference with my lighter bikes.

    Since bikes are an investment, I think the point is to take your time and know why you want it. (Give yourself time to get past "new bike fever".)
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5 WSD

    2011 Trek FX7.2--What can I say? It was on sale!

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    105
    Crankin, re: the Katy Trail. I felt the same way versus my hybrid which has wider tires but not at all textured. There is a little texture at the edges of the tire, but the center portion is really smooth.
    Last edited by MollyJ; 10-29-2018 at 05:19 AM.
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5 WSD

    2011 Trek FX7.2--What can I say? It was on sale!

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    105
    Muirenn, went to the Maxxis page for tires. Lots of information--overwhelming! But the graphic on surfaces versus tires was somewhat clarifying.
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5 WSD

    2011 Trek FX7.2--What can I say? It was on sale!

  8. #68
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    north woods of Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,110
    Quote Originally Posted by MollyJ View Post
    NWG, Both of my bikes are so light that I can lift them easily (at age 62) into the bed of my truck. I AM wary of weight. A slow, heavy bike made me not like cycling as much. I noticed a big difference with my lighter bikes.

    Since bikes are an investment, I think the point is to take your time and know why you want it. (Give yourself time to get past "new bike fever".)
    I'm right there with you. I'm 68 and 1/2, now, so, yeah, I pay attention to how a bike matches up into how I plan to ride it. I haven't always done a good job of that, but have learned a lot from my mistakes and that's a good thing.

    Speaking of weight, one thing I have learned over the years on all bikes is the importance of good wheels, as in hubs, rims and the right tires. That's where the weight and performance count the most. A set of custom wheels can cost more than a lot of bikes, but until you've actually ridden a bike with such wheels, you'll never fully appreciate what a top notch set of wheels can do for the way a bike rides. I have such a set on one of my single speeds and every time I ride it I'm still amazed at how effortlessly it rolls compared to my other similar bikes with standard factory wheels. Bought the bike used. It was a full custom build by the previous owner and I got it for half of what he had in it. Could never have afforded such a bike, otherwise.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    north woods of Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,110
    Plus one on the Thompson seat posts. Have them on most of my bikes. Worth every penny.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    105
    Well, clearly, everyone here views the bike as a canvas and you customize it to notch it up and turn it into a work of art. I'm really pretty cheap and my Madone is not, by any means, top of the line but it is the nicest bike I've ever owned and I love it. But that said, I've pretty much stuck with the original equipment. But that seat...I'd sell it in a minute if I felt comfortable that I was leaping towards improvement.

    Does the Thompson seat post mostly add reduced weight or does it improve ride?
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5 WSD

    2011 Trek FX7.2--What can I say? It was on sale!

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    105
    Muirenn, my experience with complex ideas like this is that you just get in and start swimming. And at first a lot of it just washes over me. But then it starts to make sense and increasingly connect with what I experience. And there is no where to go in my town that I know of to have these kind of conversations. This is really a unique place!

    So just be patient with my newbiness!

    But I enjoy the talk! I am not sure I would ever have the courage or the expertise to buy a frame and trick it out. OR to buy used and modify it to fit. But who knows where we go, right?
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5 WSD

    2011 Trek FX7.2--What can I say? It was on sale!

  12. #72
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    north woods of Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,110
    Quote Originally Posted by MollyJ View Post
    Well, clearly, everyone here views the bike as a canvas and you customize it to notch it up and turn it into a work of art. I'm really pretty cheap and my Madone is not, by any means, top of the line but it is the nicest bike I've ever owned and I love it. But that said, I've pretty much stuck with the original equipment. But that seat...I'd sell it in a minute if I felt comfortable that I was leaping towards improvement.

    Does the Thompson seat post mostly add reduced weight or does it improve ride?
    The Thompson CAN reduce weight, depending on what you have, now. Even if it doesn't, I love the way it adjusts the angle of the seat, plus the quality is top notch. Won't make up for a poorly fitting seat, though.

    As for your Madone, I had a WSD Madone and it really is a GREAT bike. Mine was the basic 105 model, but it remains the ONLY new bike I've ever bought that needed no mods to fit me. I reluctantly sold it. Too many years and too many thousands of miles on a drop bar road bike was causing repetitive stress injuries for me, mostly pinched nerves in my back. That, and switching back and forth between my flat bar MTBs and drop bar road bikes was just too hard on my body, so I now ride only flat bar bikes, road or trails. Never have to feel under-biked with any Madone, though. Class bike all the way.

    As for the seat, that is a whole topic until itself. Very personal thing. We all go though it, trying to find what works best for us. Lots of trail and error. Took me a long time to figure out that I have very wide sit bones and therefore need a wider than average seat. Going too narrow on the seat for all those years may have contributed to my pinched nerve thing on the road bikes. My guy at the bike shop tells me this is not at all uncommon for us gals and he knows other gals who developed the same problems. Poper support on a seat is very important, but going too wide can also cause problems. The seat is less of an issue for me on my MTB riding, because a lot of my riding on the trails is with weight up off the seat or just standing on the pedals. Out on the pavement, though, you're on that saddle just about full time, so very important.
    Last edited by north woods gal; 10-30-2018 at 08:55 AM.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    3
    Endurance road bikes are what I would recommend for long distance work and they'll also do a decent job on gravel as long as they'll take wider tires, up around 35mm wide or more (though most won't). Endurance road bikes have a geometry designed with comfort in mind for all day riding. They'll take much of the sting out of riding pavement, plus, you'll have a lot more choices in gearing.
    Drop bar gravel bikes are a great choice as a do it all road bike. They're essentially endurance bikes setup for wider tires. Tire width is important for gravel riding. Don't let those wider tires fool you into thinking they're slow. My Salsa Warbird gravel bike with its 700x35 tires was every bit as fast as my Trek carbon Domane endurance road bike with its 700x25 tires on the pavement, not to mention that the Warbird also gave me the option of riding gravel and took a lot of the bite out of rough pavement. Riding gravel with a 700x25 bike is a big no-no. Not recommended.
    As to brakes, go disc all the way. The old external rim brakes work for fair weather use, but in wet weather or situations where you need some real braking power, you need discs. Absolute must for gravel work. Besides, disc brakes are now standard on nearly all bikes, these days. If you go with eternal rim brakes, your bike model choices will be severely limited.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    3
    [QUOTE=deckrdshaw;867689]Endurance road bikes are what I would recommend for long distance work and they'll also do a decent job on gravel as long as they'll take wider tires, up around 35mm wide or more (though most won't). Endurance road bikes have a geometry designed with comfort in mind for all day riding. They'll take much of the sting out of riding pavement, plus, you'll have a lot more choices in gearing.
    Drop bar gravel bikes are a great choice as a do it all road bike. They're essentially endurance bikes setup for wider tires. Tire width is important for gravel riding. Don't let those wider tires fool you into thinking they're slow. My Salsa Warbird gravel bike with its 700x35 tires was every bit as fast as my Trek carbon Domane endurance road bike with its 700x25 tires on the pavement, not to mention that the Warbird also gave me the option of riding gravel and took a lot of the bite out of rough pavement. Riding gravel with a 700x25 bike is a big no-no. Not recommended.
    As to brakes, go disc all the way. The old external rim brakes work for fair weather use, but in wet weather or situations where you need some real braking power, you need discs. Absolute must for gravel work. Besides, disc brakes are now standard on nearly all bikes, these days. If you go with eternal rim brakes, your bike model choices will be severely limited.


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  15. #75
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by deckrdshaw View Post
    Endurance road bikes are what I would recommend for long distance work and they'll also do a decent job on gravel as long as they'll take wider tires, up around 35mm wide or more (though most won't). Endurance road bikes have a geometry designed with comfort in mind for all day riding. They'll take much of the sting out of riding pavement, plus, you'll have a lot more choices in gearing.
    Drop bar gravel bikes are a great choice as a do it all road bike. They're essentially endurance bikes setup for wider tires. Tire width is important for gravel riding. Don't let those wider tires fool you into thinking they're slow. My Salsa Warbird gravel bike with its 700x35 tires was every bit as fast as my Trek carbon Domane endurance road bike with its 700x25 tires on the pavement, not to mention that the Warbird also gave me the option of riding gravel and took a lot of the bite out of rough pavement. Riding gravel with a 700x25 bike is a big no-no. Not recommended.
    As to brakes, go disc all the way. The old external rim brakes work for fair weather use, but in wet weather or situations where you need some real braking power, you need discs. Absolute must for gravel work. Besides, disc brakes are now standard on nearly all bikes, these days. If you go with eternal rim brakes, your bike model choices will be severely limited.
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