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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259

    My kingdom for seams that aren't destroyed almost instantly by my thunder thighs!!

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    Seriously. I now have 2 different shorts that have trashed seams where the chamois is attached to the short. 2 brands -- my favorite top-of-the-line Sugoi RSE bibs and a pair of Endura bibs. Both pair had visibly worn seams after <6 rides. This is frustrating and $$. I'd love to find something with a chamois similar to Sugoi chamois, but with better/different seam placement. My SMP Drakon is the only saddle I have ever found that I can forget about and that doesn't draw blood, so I can't change that.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    northern Virginia
    Posts
    5,897
    I've never been able to wear any Sugoi shorts long enough to decide if I like the chamois. The ones I have seem to be cut for someone who is slimmer than me, even though the size chart says they should fit. A big problem is that they tend to use thread that doesn't stretch when the shorts stretch. The stitching around the chamois on my Sugoi knickers is definitely in the wrong spot and it chafes like a razor after less than an hour.

    As for Endura, I've got some jerseys that I really like but have never tried any of their shorts.

    My favorite shorts are Gore Oxygen. The stitching does not get in the way but I did notice that they are looking faded and worn from friction along the sides of the saddle. I have three pairs but am thinking I might look for another.

    - Gray 2010 carbon WSD road bike, Rivet Independence saddle
    - Red hardtail 26" aluminum mountain bike, Bontrager Evoke WSD saddle
    - Royal blue 2018 aluminum gravel bike, Rivet Pearl saddle

    Gone but not forgotten:
    - Silver 2003 aluminum road bike
    - Two awesome worn out Juliana saddles

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Interesting you say this...I liked the version of my shorts from 2 years ago and those wore like tanks...and were MUCH stretchier. I wore a M in those. In the latest version they use a totally different material and I need a L. Last year's was essentially the same as the short from 2 years ago, but they still seemed to run smaller. And I suspect the chamois is cut just slightly different on this years model, putting the seams right on a friction area with my saddle. So frustrating.

    I used to have a pair of Gore bibs and liked their chamois, but they were too small and I now am even larger than when I bought those.

    I'd like my Endura shorts more, but the front of the chamois is too bulky/dense and defeats the purpose of the big cut-out on my saddle.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Concord, MA
    Posts
    13,394
    My Sugoi RS Elite Pros have certainly become smaller in the newest version. I can still fit in the x-smalls, but a bit of muffin top , which I have never had. I am sure the width of the chamois in the smalls would be too big. Still my go to shorts for most of the year.
    2015 Trek Silque SSL
    Specialized Oura

    2011 Guru Praemio
    Specialized Oura
    2017 Specialized Ariel Sport

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Quote Originally Posted by Crankin View Post
    My Sugoi RS Elite Pros have certainly become smaller in the newest version. I can still fit in the x-smalls, but a bit of muffin top , which I have never had. I am sure the width of the chamois in the smalls would be too big. Still my go to shorts for most of the year.
    Do they use a different size chamois in different size shorts? Are there other brands with a chamois you like? I have a pair of RS knicks and like that chamois, but not for longer rides (not quite dense enough under the sit bones).

    I'm eyeballing a pair of LG bibs, but really don't know how they run. I have a pair of LG tri shorts that I never actually wore...I'm generally a size 8 in bottoms, but these are an XL and STILL too small, WTF?! According to their sizing chart I should fall between a L and XL. I know tri stuff tends to run small, but these are ridiculous. I wonder if their bibs are similar, or if they are cut more generously.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    northern Virginia
    Posts
    5,897
    Quote Originally Posted by zoom-zoom View Post
    I'd like my Endura shorts more, but the front of the chamois is too bulky/dense and defeats the purpose of the big cut-out on my saddle.
    Someone really needs to take the concept of the saddle cutout and apply it to chamois design -- make the padding very thin in front.

    I know that the chamois in Shebeest's shorts is wider for L and XL sizes than for XS-M. (Which is the reason I don't wear Shebeest shorts -- the size M is just a bit to small, the size L fits perfectly but the chamois is so wide that it bunches up. Fortunately I noticed this in the fitting room, thus avoiding certain torture on the bike.) After I discovered that I noticed that TE used to provide information on multiple chamois sizes for the shorts that they sold, and Shebeest was the only brand that I recall doing it. But I could be wrong about that.

    - Gray 2010 carbon WSD road bike, Rivet Independence saddle
    - Red hardtail 26" aluminum mountain bike, Bontrager Evoke WSD saddle
    - Royal blue 2018 aluminum gravel bike, Rivet Pearl saddle

    Gone but not forgotten:
    - Silver 2003 aluminum road bike
    - Two awesome worn out Juliana saddles

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Quote Originally Posted by ny biker View Post
    Someone really needs to take the concept of the saddle cutout and apply it to chamois design -- make the padding very thin in front.

    I know that the chamois in Shebeest's shorts is wider for L and XL sizes than for XS-M. (Which is the reason I don't wear Shebeest shorts -- the size M is just a bit to small, the size L fits perfectly but the chamois is so wide that it bunches up. Fortunately I noticed this in the fitting room, thus avoiding certain torture on the bike.) After I discovered that I noticed that TE used to provide information on multiple chamois sizes for the shorts that they sold, and Shebeest was the only brand that I recall doing it. But I could be wrong about that.
    It's a bummer that the Endura shorts don't work better -- they have 3 chamois width options for EVERY size of their top end shorts. They match the chamois to a rider's favorite saddle (I want to say my shorts were L with a narrow chamois to match my SMP saddle). And the chamois fit was great, except for that bulky front. DH and one of our other cycling buddies are shocked that I don't love the Endura bibs as much as they do (they have the men's version), but neither of them has female anatomy or need for cut-out saddles.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Concord, MA
    Posts
    13,394
    The other shorts I love are the Terry Bellas, but the chamois is very narrow and not dense. I mostly love them because of the high compression factor, bu they are too heavy to wear in very hot weather and the Sugoi chamois is better for long rides. I found this outon the first day of my trip to Spain, when it was 100 degrees.
    2015 Trek Silque SSL
    Specialized Oura

    2011 Guru Praemio
    Specialized Oura
    2017 Specialized Ariel Sport

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Quote Originally Posted by Muirenn View Post
    Not comfortable for a road ride, you ride off-road a lot, right?
    Only if gravel is off-road. I actually sold my mountain bike a while back...since I've not really ridden it in >3 years (since busting my wrist). I ride ~3500 miles/year, almost entirely on pavement or gravel.

    I think I'm probably stuck with my issue as long as I am on my favorite saddle. I went through over a dozen saddles that caused various issues before trying the SMP.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    northern Virginia
    Posts
    5,897
    To me, a seamless chamois is a chamois that is all one piece, so the only stitches are the ones around the edges to attach it to the shorts. I think most are like this now. Years ago I had some PI shorts with a chamois that was multiple sections sewn together, and then sewn to the shorts around the edges. So you ended up with seams between you and the saddle, sometimes in high-chafe areas -- very uncomfortable.

    - Gray 2010 carbon WSD road bike, Rivet Independence saddle
    - Red hardtail 26" aluminum mountain bike, Bontrager Evoke WSD saddle
    - Royal blue 2018 aluminum gravel bike, Rivet Pearl saddle

    Gone but not forgotten:
    - Silver 2003 aluminum road bike
    - Two awesome worn out Juliana saddles

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    california
    Posts
    1,227
    Because of the good research into chamois design we now have seamless, flat-lock stitched around the outside edge, quality perforated mono/multi high-density memory foam and antibacterial stretchable microfiber covered chamois’ with designs for different kinds of riding. It’s well worth my comfort to spend the money needed to get a quality constructed pair of shorts with a chamois designed for the kind of riding I’m doing whether for long distance and climbing, just a days causal ride around the city or commuting etc.

    Chamois' are really a personal and type of riding choice much like saddles, which are also an important part of this. Probably lots of good info on the net for chamois design to look through. Louis Garneau is my current favorite for long rides and for construction, the chamois design, fit and the way it’s cut a little higher in the back and lower in the front. I bought two more after three long hard rides to have for replacement. Garneau also do custom made shorts where you can pick the graphics, color, fabrics and chamois.

    Thinking business bottom liners can sometimes have the influences on fabric/stitching/construction of a new version that can cause problems with reliability for that particular one…or perhaps just a manufacturing problem. Something like REI’s return policy when needed ftw

    chamois cream on long rides ftw…..

    ny...terry has some good photos of their different chamois designs on their site

    muirenn...a good seamless chamois will have a stretchable fabric that will help in dealing with pulling….and good stitching like flat-lock helps too.
    ‘The negative feelings we all have can be addictive…just as the positive…it’s up to
    us to decide which ones we want to choose and feed”… Pema Chodron

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Yeah, the stitching issue I have is flat-lock stitching that is making direct contact with my saddle. The sides of the nose and pressure from my generous thighs are just too much for those seams. I wonder if the zig-zag stitching would actually hold up better than the flatlock, which is quite a bit more raised atop the surface of the lycra shorts. Problem is, I really LOVE the FXE chamois in my Sugoi shorts. It may be a real catch-22. There are so few chamois that don't bug me. The FXE is perfect for my needs -- really dense gel foam under my sitbones, but minimal padding up front.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Quote Originally Posted by Muirenn View Post
    You could remove the FXEchamois, and sew it into a different pair of shorts.
    Well, I couldn't...I can barely sew on a button, but that's an intriguing idea. I really love the shorts, so it would be interesting to contemplate having someone simply re-attach the chamois using a different method. The seams are really the deal-breaker with these shorts.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    california
    Posts
    1,227
    You might want to look at the Assos S7 chamois for a different way of attaching the chamois. They are only using it in their high-end women’s bib and short though. A sometime riding companion luv's hers. 7 Mesh out of British Columbia have just a short (WK1). They have their chamois attached in a way that eliminates chamois side stitching too. Alex has a 7 Mesh windshell that is very well made and useable. I called the Pasadena store (not a lot of stores in the U.S. carrying 7 Mesh yet) where Alex got her windshell and they have the shorts in stock so I’ll go and see how well made they are, how they are constructed and how they fit me. Looks like something I might like.
    ‘The negative feelings we all have can be addictive…just as the positive…it’s up to
    us to decide which ones we want to choose and feed”… Pema Chodron

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Quote Originally Posted by rebeccaC View Post
    You might want to look at the Assos S7 chamois for a different way of attaching the chamois. They are only using it in their high-end women’s bib and short though. A sometime riding companion luv's hers. 7 Mesh out of British Columbia have just a short (WK1). They have their chamois attached in a way that eliminates chamois side stitching too. Alex has a 7 Mesh windshell that is very well made and useable. I called the Pasadena store (not a lot of stores in the U.S. carrying 7 Mesh yet) where Alex got her windshell and they have the shorts in stock so I’ll go and see how well made they are, how they are constructed and how they fit me. Looks like something I might like.
    Those 7 Mesh shorts look perfect...if only they made a women's bib. The Assos have weird stitching...looks like the chamois is attached at the top, then there is a gap with no stitching, but it appears to resume in the inner thigh area, where I trash seams. If they could figure out a way to eliminate those seams, I'd totally try. I've always heard rave reviews of Assos stuff.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

 

 

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