More information help us make good long-term decisions or not

[lph]

Darn, my long post written while in a metro tunnel yesterday disappeared into the ethers. Anyways. I think those of us who grew up without the Internet are the most gullible, because we grew up trusting mainstream media (more or less). And it's human to do so. If you have a limited source of information, and everybody you know has the same source, that sort of defines reality. You had to be well educated, well travelled and curious to really expose yourself to significantly different ways of viewing the world. My impression is that young people today have a much better understanding of what the Internet is, a huge mass of information, not necessarily true. I would say that for someone with just a little critical sense it's a huge bonus. On the other hand, you can find a peer group that supports your particular brand of extreme thinking anywhere in the world. It doesn't have to be in your neighbourhood anymore.

Re tweeting: I'm not sure what you meant, shootingstar, but in Norway at least debate on twitter is by no means mindless. It's a political playground.

[Crankin]

Thank you, for the kind comment, Shooting Star. Re: toddlers with electronic gadgets? Just say no! A few years ago, in my first counseling job, the medical records director came crying hysterically to the clinic director. This woman was a younger mom, whose 3 year old had clicked on something on her I Pad and ended up "buying" apps, adding up to hundreds of dollars. The clinic director was a 40 year old mom of elementary school age kids, who tried to explain that it is not appropriate for a 3 year to have free access to an I Pad, emphasizing the point that it is necessary to read to young children. I happened to walk into her office during this discussion, and explained all of the skills a child learns when you read to him/her: beginning, middle, end, directionality (reading left to right, up/down), page turning, letters, prediction, etc. This young mom looked at me like I was from another planet. She really didn't want to hear what we were saying, but wanted a quick fix to learning to lock her IPad, so the kid couldn't rack up purchases. She and her husband had bought the kid her own IPad for Christmas, beause they thought she "needed" one.
Oy.

[OakLeaf]

And, remember, that dismantling does not come from teachers.

Oh, totally. I hope no one got the impression I thought teachers were responsible.


I have mixed feelings about growing up with tech though. I'm of that narrow age group that first learned to write (really write, college and post-graduate level essays) with pen and paper and typewriter, and then later shifted to real writing (legal briefs) on the computer. It's been so long now that I don't even remember the ways in which my writing changed, but I remember, at least remembering that it changed very drastically, the way I approached a project and put drafts together. It's different, for sure, and I completely understand those many novelists who already had well-established writing methods before personal computers came along, and still insist on writing from beginning to end in a less ephemeral fashion. But I wouldn't be so quick to say one is better than the other.

I'm reminded of the recent controversy about children learning to write in cursive. All the skills that are touted as being fostered by cursive writing, are skills that are served even better by learning the arts. If writing the alphabet is the greatest exposure to the arts that a child ever gets in school (which I know it is these days - and I'm not talking about calligraphy or illuminating manuscripts, either), that's just really sad and misguided, to me. The only thing I would say about cursive writing is that it's much less distracting than typing is, to the person or people on whose words I'm taking notes. Voice recording and speech-to-text would solve that; or if people want to stay with old-school solutions, they could go back to teaching shorthand in high school ...

[Crankin]

Oh, I never thought that, Oak. And, as far as writing either by hand or computer, I agree, if one works for you, use it. I used to have my students hand write their first drafts, to facilitate peer editing and self editing. The only kids who got to write their first drafts on the computer were kids with learning issues/ADD, etc. Then, some of them said they wanted to do the whole thing on the computer. The issue mostly was, I alloted time for them to do the drafting and editing in class; I didn't have enough computers (maybe 4?) in the classroom, plus Alpha Smarts that were really for the learning disabled kids, to have everyone do this. Laptops would have helped here! A few of the really bright kids would type it up at home and bring it in to do their peer editing. But, most did not complain at all.
As far as cursive goes, I personally think it is a waste of time, and I thought this before everyone started word processing. Why do we need 2 systems of writing? Both of my very verbal sons have terrible handwriting, and learning cursive was torture for them. Both of them learned to type on the computer, with Mavis Beacon Typing Tutor in 3d grade, at home! I made them learn, and this was in the early nineties. Byt he time they got to the obligatory 7th grade word processing class, it was a non-issue. The older one was typing 123 words a minute and his teacher thought he cheated on the timed tests. Really, handwriting is one of those rote skills that does not give an indication of your intelligence. I cannot tell you the number of parents I would talk to and when i was saying "writing," they thought I meant handwriting. Ugh.

[Aromig]

I have mixed feelings about growing up with tech though. ...

I presume no one thought you were blaming teachers. In fact, living in a state where the Governor (who, to my knowledge has never been involved in education besides, perhaps receiving one and I'm not positive about that) has been very publicly fighting with our Education Secretary for years over standardized testing and numerous other issues, I know that I'm very cognizant of the fact that teachers rarely control the education process.

I struggle with how I feel about tech. I typed my papers through high school and I know I was much more careful and deliberate and actually used outlining. I was lucky enough to get a "word processor" my Senior Year (it could display three lines at a time on the screen and looked like a typewriter), but by the time I was in college computers were readily available for word processing. I procrastinate a lot more since editing is so easy.

All of my kids' homework require the use of a computer to look things up. Most of his homework is done electronically and submitted on the teachers' website, etc. All kids in the district now have some form of computer (the school assigns them and the kids keep them all year, returning them at the end of the year) but we live outside of town where it is hard to get good quality high speed internet. My 13 year old goes to the public library after school to do his homework. it's convenient because he hates to ride the bus and my husband can't pick him up right away. If he has to do it at home our internet suffices, or he uses my ipad with cell service or our cell phones as hot spots, but I wonder about poorer children who don't have internet.

I can't quite tell if I like this system or not. I still love books, and hate that when I'm helping with homework we're flipping through pages on a screen. I personally have trouble finding things this way but perhaps kids have adapted. My kids also aren't very patient when they can't immediately find an answer, they don't seem to be willing to work very hard, instead expecting an instant answer to almost any problem. That, however, could just be my kids.

[shootingstar]

Re tweeting: I'm not sure what you meant, shootingstar, but in Norway at least debate on twitter is by no means mindless. It's a political playground.

Sure, if tweeting is used as quick disseminator link to more extensive article on the 'Net, it's helpful. Certainly during Obama's political campaign and even here in the city where I live, the mayor's first election win, was partially due to his team's reach to a huge younger set of electorate via twitter. First day in office, the mayor sometimes tweeted himself or his staff helped.. It's good but one needs yet another few daily hrs. of staff set aside for careful tweets, in addition to other regular media channels.

Cursive handwriting: If that is subsumed over computer typewriting, then it would be helpful to child to learn something detailed in with using their hands that's more manual and takes patience to ...create. This is another reason why we should always welcome all the younger generation uptake on DYI skills....traditional skills of sewing, knitting, gardening, woodworking, machine repair, word games with others, making perogies (a finer cooking skill) or just chopping up veggies manually, making your own meals..these are skills to my mind, that slow down a person and for a child, teaches them discipline without technology, to master something that demands focused attention, eye-hand coordination and above all, patience, plus detailed problem-solving. .WITHOUT computer technology.

Kind of like taking patience to walk for 15 min. to a store nearby to buy something and the weather is great, you have time ...instead of jumping into a car for such a short car ride. Healthier, cheaper....

[shootingstar]

Cursive writing is fine for young kids since they learn the letters slowly and build up understanding to words, etc. Don't know how kid's brain works learning strictly letters without learning to handwrite.

For adults, computers do help get around atrocious handwriting and may facilitate for some creative writers, even more creative brainstorming. I did handwrite some of my university papers in first 2 years. then my handwriting truly deteroriated to a point where 1-2 professors complained about my essay writing during tests. It affected my mark.

I find computer helps me move along with my thoughts when I want to spit them out as fast as I think. So for some writers and thinkers, computers can help in the creative/brainstorming process. Then I can edit later without physical effort of rewrites.

Had a long chat with 1 of my sisters who is having problems understanding her 8 yr. old daughter whom she knows has fabulous memory and was motivated to read 2 yrs. ago. But now she doesn't seem to be as motivated. I am familiar with the same child who loves hanging around adults and striking up conversations but doesn't naturally talk to children at length, her age.

As an aunt and non-parent, I try to be very careful how to offer advice. But at least sis and I were like all other siblings --all 6 of us became quickly voracious book readers as children. We know the value for lifelong love of reading. None of our parents read to us. Reading book to children is a cultural practice. For traditional older Chinese parents, they weren't raised like that. Nor did I read for baby siblings when I was a teen. It just never occurred to me nor was I told to do so at home.

Besides my mother doesn't know much English and my father was either at work or too tired. (He was bilingual. Taught himself English as an adult here in Canada when he had several young children already...) But he did monitor our academic marks...and if convenient, drive us to the library to drop/get books before he went to work in evening.

Her daughter wants to have her own blog...just like her aunt...me. It's disconcerting to my sister because I do have commenters which immediately sends a signal to daughter that there other people (strangers) out there on the 'Net.

I think it's the blog "stories", photos she likes to look at. I told sis, that blog can be made private to an select audience.... Rightfully, sis has limited her children 6 & 8 to iPad use on weekends.. under 1 hr. each day or something like that.