Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Click the "Create Account" button now to join.

To disable ads, please log-in.

Shop at TeamEstrogen.com for women's cycling apparel.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 32
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Mrs. KnottedYet
    Posts
    9,152

    Thumbs down Keep an eye out for "art" in the parks

    To disable ads, please log-in.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Yosemite/com...r_her_actions/

    Something to keep an eye out for especially if hiking or biking in our priceless national parks. Shared the Reddit thread as it has contact info for the parks investigator.

    http://www.modernhiker.com/2014/10/2...ational-parks/
    Last edited by Trek420; 10-24-2014 at 11:37 AM.
    Fancy Schmancy Custom Road bike ~ Mondonico Futura Legero
    Found on side of the road bike ~ Motobecane Mixte
    Gravel bike ~ Salsa Vaya
    Favorite bike ~ Soma Buena Vista mixte
    Folder ~ Brompton
    N+1 ~ My seat on the Rover recumbent tandem
    https://www.instagram.com/pugsley_adventuredog/

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    1,632
    Sad.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Uncanny Valley
    Posts
    14,498
    I guess I have mixed feelings about it. What about the petroglyphs that are thousands of years old? What about, even, the carvings from the late 1800s and early 1900s? I get the outrage, I really do. I feel it myself. But I also know that coming across the ancient or even old graffiti is very cool.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Mrs. KnottedYet
    Posts
    9,152
    Quote Originally Posted by Muirenn View Post
    I'm not an expert (but I know of at least one TE'er who is), but that is in violation of NEPA (National Environmental Policy Act). Violating federal acts is a serious thing. And I guess each case of graffiti is a separate charge.

    She'll be caught, eventually.
    I am not a lawyer either but think there are separate laws that protect antiquities like the petroglyphs. She's going to have quite a different 15 minutes of fame then planned
    Fancy Schmancy Custom Road bike ~ Mondonico Futura Legero
    Found on side of the road bike ~ Motobecane Mixte
    Gravel bike ~ Salsa Vaya
    Favorite bike ~ Soma Buena Vista mixte
    Folder ~ Brompton
    N+1 ~ My seat on the Rover recumbent tandem
    https://www.instagram.com/pugsley_adventuredog/

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    california
    Posts
    1,232
    I love learning about and photographing urban graffiti and street art. For me it’s just a part of my urban visual art experience whether its art provocation, stencil or pasted work, mindless graffiti…etc. etc.

    I’ve also seen some chalk work on hard stone in Glacier NP that was both creative and executed very well. That it would disappear in a couple of rains made it even better for me. Some don’t want even that in our National Parks and I’m okay with that. Due process will happen so there may be a price to pay for an artist doing it.

    I don’t know anything about Norcket except what’s in the two links. That she used acrylics may mean she didn’t think it through very well or perhaps she just didn’t care. Referring to Banksy seemed a little absurd….but again I don’t know anything about her.

    I do like ‘creepytings’ as a tag name though



























    Last edited by rebeccaC; 10-24-2014 at 11:49 PM.
    ‘The negative feelings we all have can be addictive…just as the positive…it’s up to
    us to decide which ones we want to choose and feed”… Pema Chodron

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    4,364
    For me this is just another sad example of the "me" generation…. a 20 something that has no concept of how her actions affect other people. Someone who only ever thinks of things in terms of themselves and what they want with no thought whatsoever to the wider implications. I think it's really quite sad and I'm glad that she's been identified and basically caught. Had it been chalk or something temporary I could see it, but that she was using acrylics and she seemed to be totally aware that she was doing something that would offend others, yet still did it, makes me disgusted and sad more than anything. Selfish little child, me, me, me, me, me me…...
    "Sharing the road means getting along, not getting ahead" - 1994 Washington State Driver's Guide

    visit my flickr stream http://flic.kr/ps/MMu5N

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Uncanny Valley
    Posts
    14,498
    As long as we remember that the term "me generation" was coined 40 years ago to describe people who are now in their 60s. Coined by a man who helped lead a cultural movement that was derided as wastrels by the generation before him. And though we don't know how old the people were when they carved their initials and dates into the sandstone 120 years ago, it's a pretty safe guess that they were young adults or adolescents at the time, too.
    Last edited by OakLeaf; 10-25-2014 at 04:21 AM.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Concord, MA
    Posts
    13,394
    I hate graffiti anywhere. There was so much of it in Portugal, it obscured some really nice sites, both in the city and rural areas.
    I know it's considered an art form, but it just seems like litter to me.
    2015 Trek Silque SSL
    Specialized Oura

    2011 Guru Praemio
    Specialized Oura
    2017 Specialized Ariel Sport

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    4,364
    OK the current me generation… the one that's been so coddled and told they are wonderful, that everyone is a winner all their lives, that they haven't learned that their personal desires aren't the end all and be all to life. I can call it the "Everyone get's a trophy" generation if you'd like.

    And I get equally annoyed at seeing people's initials carved into rocks/structures. I was no less ticked off at the quite large inscription proudly proclaiming that some midwest boy scout troop had stayed in the CCC shelter on the Wonderland trail in 1940 something…..
    "Sharing the road means getting along, not getting ahead" - 1994 Washington State Driver's Guide

    visit my flickr stream http://flic.kr/ps/MMu5N

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    4,632
    Quote Originally Posted by Eden View Post
    OK the current me generation… the one that's been so coddled and told they are wonderful, that everyone is a winner all their lives, that they haven't learned that their personal desires aren't the end all and be all to life. I can call it the "Everyone get's a trophy" generation if you'd like.
    Uh, thanks.
    At least I don't leave slime trails.
    http://wholecog.wordpress.com/

    2009 Giant Avail 3 |Specialized Jett 143

    2013 Charge Filter Apex| Specialized Jett 143
    1996(?) Giant Iguana 630|Specialized Riva


    Saving for the next one...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    1,301
    I love art, even street art and tats, but when I'm out in nature I want to see nature, not graffiti. To me this is very sad.
    2012 Jamis Quest Brooks B17 Blue
    2012 Jamis Dakar XC Comp SI Ldy Gel
    2013 Electra Verse

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Western Canada-prairies, mountain & ocean
    Posts
    6,984
    Quote Originally Posted by Muirenn View Post
    It's not just the defacement. Acrylic paint is a hazardous waste. There are specific steps to take, even in an urban setting, to avoid compromising the natural and human environments. Picture set-up and disposal. Wet paint. Brushes. I wonder how she cleaned them. In the stream, perhaps? Not likely nothing was emitted in that scenario. And if any spray paint was used, propellants are a consideration. I'm sure some paint has ended up in water-runoff and entered the water table. Affecting soil substrate, flora, insects and birds that feed on flora and drink water, etc. etc. So what we have are water quality, soil quality, green house gas emissions. Yes, these are small projects, but these are pristine environments she has entered. Not just sad and not just 'me.' It's damaging. Oh, and a lot of the areas she is in may have significant cultural resources (like religious significance for tribes). It's very common, actually. In one cultural resources class I took that was conducted by tribal archeologists, they pointed out that a religious monument may just be a simple hill, something that looks like nothing to an outsider. Any changes to those areas have to be agreed upon by tribal governments, state historic offices, etc. etc.

    That hill face with the obvious strata bothers me the most. It can't really be cleaned without causing damage. And the acrylics will leach over time, eroding the area and adding toxins to the environment on a greater scale.
    Thx for this reminder, Murienn.

    I actually dislike graffiti in cities and out in the parks, rural area. Sorry. And I do my own art at home, so it's not as if I lack art appreciation. I photograph and my personal blog contains highlights of what I see for planned public outdoor public art, when I bike around.

    I give no blog highlights to graffiti "artists". To me, it's defacement of someone else' property ...and even public property that has been paid by taxpayers. We have to spend dollars to clean it off. Worse, planned outdoor public art installations are defaced sometimes.

    Some of the "style" for planned art, adopts a graffiti style.. no problems with that if the artists got permission to paint an abandoned house...which actually there was series of homes, slated for demolition. So the whole neighbourhood was turned into a funky public artsy area for a few months.

    An artist for any medium, should respect the environment and property where they practice their art..
    Last edited by shootingstar; 10-25-2014 at 11:13 AM.
    My Personal blog on cycling & other favourite passions.
    遙知馬力日久見人心 Over a long distance, you learn about the strength of your horse; over a long period of time, you get to know what’s in a person’s heart.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Concord, MA
    Posts
    13,394
    This goes on in every generation.
    We all suck!
    2015 Trek Silque SSL
    Specialized Oura

    2011 Guru Praemio
    Specialized Oura
    2017 Specialized Ariel Sport

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Troutdale, OR
    Posts
    2,600
    Every generation has their share of rotten apples. Leaving a mark any kind in national park stinks. Be it pile of trash, illegal fire pits/camp fire cutting of trees for fire and even graffiti art. I don't care if it was done by Dali, Picasso, Rembrant, Peter Bruelgel or even Van Gogh, painting on landscape is not acceptable.

    As for graffiti of petroglyph in Southwest, they are of historical importance to archeology and to anthropologist. They have different implications than the graffiti of today. And to me, it is this difference that is the difference between acceptable and not acceptable. Same goes to ancient Greek graffiti and those in Middle East.

    Now that the woman has been identified, she will find it not so fun or "art" anymore. A case I remember was from Newspaper rock in Southern Utah. Idiot carved their name, address and phone number. This was about 40 years ago and the perpetrator ended up paying a fine and clean up cost. Back then he had to cough up tens of thousands of dollars. Newspaper rock now has a chain link fence around the front so you wont be tempted to carve anything into the sandstone. Carvings in newspaper rock I believe comprises of petroglyphs dating to pre-Spaniard days so no horses. Then later petroglyphs have Indians on horses (post Spanish)

    I hope she gets to spend years cleaning her stuff off in the 100+ heat, 5% humidity with UV index of 100.

    grrrr!!!!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    4,364
    Quote Originally Posted by Muirenn View Post
    I don't think anyone on TE meant to generalize, though. Just how it is as we get older. I'm generation X. And, apparently, we haven't done a damn thing. And Baby Boomers use far too many resources, straining carrying capacity...
    Exactly - there's problems in every generation - it's just that each time we try to solve them we simply seem to make things bad in a whole new way…. and we probably notice the ones younger than us the most. It's not that I think *every* child of the current generation has gotten sucked into believing all the rot that's fed to them about being terrific just for existing, but the ones who have… ugh the feelings of entitlement and the narcissism.

    Maybe it's also the accessibility of it all too…. this is the first generation who could do something like the systematic defacement of national parks and then nearly iinstananeously proudly proclaim it to the world via a medium that millions of people can easily see…
    Last edited by Eden; 10-25-2014 at 01:50 PM.
    "Sharing the road means getting along, not getting ahead" - 1994 Washington State Driver's Guide

    visit my flickr stream http://flic.kr/ps/MMu5N

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •