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  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    northern Virginia
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    5,897

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irulan View Post
    As much as it is disturbing to see any kind of neglect ( animal, human etc) I'm thinking it's pretty pointless to try and point things out to people. It's kind of like trying to change someone's mind over the internet. You feel better making your point, but are you really going to change anyone's behavior?
    I tend to agree with this. If there was clear, serious abuse, I would try to contact the police or animal control people anonymously. But I had a neighbor recently who lived in the condo above mine, and I could tell she was ignoring her dog -- leaving it home alone in a cage for 16 hours at a time -- and I didn't say anything to her because I was already having enough problems with her stomping around and slamming things on purpose because she knew it annoyed me. She had the emotional maturity of a toddler and should never have gotten a dog in the first place. There was no way I would have been able to help the dog by intervening. (My neighbor's boyfriend seemed much more mature, so hopefully he stepped up and took better care of the dog after the neighbor moved on to a different home.)

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  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
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    4,066
    Quote Originally Posted by malkin View Post
    We have 3 other cats (about 2, 3, and 4 years old). They are curious about her in a 'that is not a cat' way. She is doing better and better but she sometimes reacts sort of like a cat version of an autistic kid who can't regulate (hiss, growl, roar, spit) and then shuts down ( get very small and don't move).

    We are happy to have her, anyway. She's funny. She bumps into things and I'm sure she and the big cats will get used to each other in time.
    Here's a little video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07f7wQ8mbww
    Awww, what a cutey :-) I'd forgotten how kittens will play with anything, all the time. Should be fun watching her gain proper use of her motor skills. Big cat doesn't look too impressed though :-D



    Yeah, I guess it does take more than casual conversation to change peoples behaviour. ..
    Winter riding is much less about badassery and much more about bundle-uppery. - malkin

    1995 Kona Cinder Cone commuterFrankenbike/Selle Italia SLR Lady Gel Flow
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  3. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    3,176
    Back to the original question though--If the other person were a friend or close relative, I might go ahead and notice out loud that the animal needed a nail trim or coat maintenance and then go ahead and just perform it. I don't know most of my neighbors well enough to barge in and offer to trim their dogs' nails.

    It's sort of the same thing when someone rides by on a bike with the seat remarkably too low. Brewer sort of wants to tell them to stop so he can raise the saddle, which would be fine in a small town where we all knew each other, but this isn't really that kind of small town.
    Each day is a gift, that's why it is called the present.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by Irulan View Post
    I'm going to disagree here. In rural situations, you might not have a lot of traffic, but you have coyotes and other predators and parasites.
    As for "natural" behavior, is it "natural" to kill things and never eat them? Cat decimation of songbird populations is well documented. As someone in non rural setting, I am beyond annoyed at free roaming cats that continually hunt birds in my yard, and use my gardens as little boxes. Ordinances preventing roaming cats are blatantly ignored, and yet if I catch one in my yard and take it to pound, guess who is the bad guy? And to reference my previous post, if I mention to my neighbor that I don't like their cats in my yard, I basically get told to f*** off very politely.

    I agree, Irulan. I have a cat--he's 17 years old, and he's only been an indoor cat. He wouldn't be this old, had he been an outdoor cat. I love all critters, and I personally think it's cruel all the way around, to allow a domestic cat to roam outdoors. If someone insists on having their cat outdoors, then they should construct a pen to protect the cat from disease, coyotes, etc., and to protect the prey from the cat.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Flagstaff AZ
    Posts
    2,516
    Quote Originally Posted by CAS View Post
    I agree, Irulan. I have a cat--he's 17 years old, and he's only been an indoor cat. He wouldn't be this old, had he been an outdoor cat. I love all critters, and I personally think it's cruel all the way around, to allow a domestic cat to roam outdoors. If someone insists on having their cat outdoors, then they should construct a pen to protect the cat from disease, coyotes, etc., and to protect the prey from the cat.
    Well, I am of the opposite opinion; I have always had indoor/outdoor cats. I had two Maine Coons - one who lived to 24, the other to around 18 or so (he died of a heart attack, had a heart issue). Both were indoor/outdoor cats, pampered, spoiled and loved. I don't think it hurt them to be outdoors.

    I now have two indoor/outdoor cats and I don't really think I'm cruel to them.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    4,066
    I hadn't really meant to start an indoor/outdoor discussion, but for what it's worth: I can see both sides, even though I have a clear preference myself for keeping outdoor cats. What is "cruel" depends on the cat's personality, the owner and the surroundings, IMO, and doesn't warrant blanket statements. Yes, I might consider it cruel (or thoughtless) to keep an outdoor cat in a very dangerous environment. Or stupid, if you have a hunting cat and rare songbirds around. But we don't even have coyotes here. We have the occasional red fox, one type of venomous adder (and this is the first case of a cat being bitten I'd ever heard of) and extremely restricted traffic. I might equally consider it cruel to keep an active, young cat indoors in a small flat with little stimulation. Our cat became quite aggressive when we had to keep her indoors for 6 weeks this spring, even though we walked her 3 times a day and tried to play with her. OTOH I know people who go to great lengths to make sure their indoor cats are happy and content, and they obviously are safer. To each their own. As Irulan pointed out - arguing on the internet rarely changes anyones mind ;-)

    Heheh, malkin, I have the same reaction whenever I see someone with their seat too low, I really want to yell out at them "PLEASE raise your seat!" I was known as the busybody mother who would adjust all the kids helmets when my son was small.
    Winter riding is much less about badassery and much more about bundle-uppery. - malkin

    1995 Kona Cinder Cone commuterFrankenbike/Selle Italia SLR Lady Gel Flow
    2008 white Nakamura Summit Custom mtb/Terry Falcon X
    2000 Schwinn Fastback Comp road bike/Specialized Jett

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Concord, MA
    Posts
    13,394
    I don't have a pet, only had one in my life, but I am the person who says something to other riders, especially if a child is involved.
    I once yelled at my neighbor from my old neighborhood, when we came upon him while riding home, about half a mile to go. He was riding the wrong way on a semi rural road that gets a good amount of traffic, with no helmet. He had his 2 sons behind him. They had helmets on, but I told him to get on the other side of the street. DH was pissed, but I I really think that some people just don't know what the law is.
    Of course, this is the guy who got arrested for a DUI in just about the same spot... ah, the local HS football hero from 1981. He got a scholarship to Yale, and apparently didn't learn much.
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  8. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    3,176
    I don't understand wrong side of the street riders. I get that sidewalk riders have some (false) feeling of increased safety, but wrong way riding doesn't make any sense to me at all. If I yelled at them it would be "What the @#$% are you thinking?!"
    Each day is a gift, that's why it is called the present.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    247
    If you can keep your cat in your yard, fine. Please keep it out of mine. I'm tired of cat poop and cat urine and dead birds on my property.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    4,066
    Funny story: when we moved in where we live now, we were told by our closest neighbour, in no uncertain terms, on our first meeting, that if there was one thing she HATED it was cat poop in her garden. Many of our other neighbours have cats themselves. We've come to a working agreement with her: we sympathize when she complains about cats, we try to keep Lyra from sharpening her claws on her lilac tree, and we buy her that stinky gel to put in her flowerbeds that cats hate. She has our blessing to chase Lyra out of her garden in any way she wants to, including throwing a bucketful of water at her if needs be.
    It transpired that her boyfriend, who visits frequently, adores cats, and is smitten with Lyra. And that Lyra loves to play with water coming from a hose. So they have gradually all become friends, and her DIL who lives a few doors down, confided in me one day that "you must have a special cat. My MIL really doesn't like cats, but she likes yours!" Lyra is now welcome in her garden, catches mice and hangs around being sociable and comes running when they pull out the hose. I wouldn't be surprised if she even gets to sharpen her claws on the lilacs every now and then. All the other neighbours cats are banned :-D

    FTR I hate cat poop too.
    Winter riding is much less about badassery and much more about bundle-uppery. - malkin

    1995 Kona Cinder Cone commuterFrankenbike/Selle Italia SLR Lady Gel Flow
    2008 white Nakamura Summit Custom mtb/Terry Falcon X
    2000 Schwinn Fastback Comp road bike/Specialized Jett

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    the dry side
    Posts
    4,365
    Quote Originally Posted by roo4 View Post
    If you can keep your cat in your yard, fine. Please keep it out of mine. I'm tired of cat poop and cat urine and dead birds on my property.
    I'm with you. My dogs would never be able to get away with doing in other people's yards what cats do in mine.
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  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    4,364
    Quote Originally Posted by malkin View Post
    I don't understand wrong side of the street riders. I get that sidewalk riders have some (false) feeling of increased safety, but wrong way riding doesn't make any sense to me at all. If I yelled at them it would be "What the @#$% are you thinking?!"
    Many people are still taught that you should ride against traffic… here in WA, while we are always supposed to ride in the same direction as traffic, there are laws on the books about walking on streets with no sidewalks that state that one must walk facing traffic - some people get the wrong idea from that too.
    "Sharing the road means getting along, not getting ahead" - 1994 Washington State Driver's Guide

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  13. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Quote Originally Posted by Eden View Post
    Many people are still taught that you should ride against traffic… here in WA, while we are always supposed to ride in the same direction as traffic, there are laws on the books about walking on streets with no sidewalks that state that one must walk facing traffic - some people get the wrong idea from that too.
    Same here...though I see so many cyclists riding against and pedestrians walking/running with. SMH
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  14. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by Irulan View Post
    I'm going to disagree here. In rural situations, you might not have a lot of traffic, but you have coyotes and other predators and parasites.
    As for "natural" behavior, is it "natural" to kill things and never eat them? Cat decimation of songbird populations is well documented. As someone in non rural setting, I am beyond annoyed at free roaming cats that continually hunt birds in my yard, and use my gardens as little boxes. Ordinances preventing roaming cats are blatantly ignored, and yet if I catch one in my yard and take it to pound, guess who is the bad guy? And to reference my previous post, if I mention to my neighbor that I don't like their cats in my yard, I basically get told to f*** off very politely.
    I have outdoor/indoor cats and if they hunted day and night they could not kill the number of birds that the building I work in kills every day. Each morning -- especially when the evening grosbeaks are migrating - the ground under the windows (6 story building) is carpeted with dead birds. At least one of the dept on campus collects them and freezes them and uses them for their bird class, but I am surprised there are any birds left in that population.
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  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    1,301
    Saying that your building kills more birds than your cats do is like saying heart disease kills more people than cancer. Both are terrible and something needs to be done about both. Outdoor cats is not good for the cats or the wildlife, especially songbirds. They have decimated many populations of birds and there are a lot of studies on it. I also agree that many of these buildings need to do something to protect migrating birds. It's also a problem.

    If you don't care about the wildlife there's the issue of the things that can happen to your outdoor cat. It's not healthy for them. Then there's the issue that you can't keep a cat in just your yard. Is it fair that your neighbor should have to put up with your pet in their yard? I'm sure if their dog was in your yard you wouldn't be too happy about it. Why should it be any different for cats?

    And in case anyone thinks I'm a cat hater, I have 2 cats.
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