Negativity? Depression? How to make a friendship with doom and gloom?

[Irulan]

The problem was that, at that time, if I hadn't "stepped up", she never would have gotten to the hospital, wouldn't have been able to feed herself, woudn't have been able to go to/from her surgery or appointments - nothing. Everyone else had already been so manipulated by her that they were ignoring her or were out of town at the time. Her own mother deserted her. I was able to be there for her.

This is where she shows she is a master manipulator. These people are really smart and resourceful. I'm sure she would have figured something out, even if it meant calling a taxi to get to the hospital or having a nurse come into the house. She mostly like would not have died on the floor or starved to death without you "being there".

[ny biker]

This is where she shows she is a master manipulator. These people are really smart and resourceful. I'm sure she would have figured something out, even if it meant calling a taxi to get to the hospital or having a nurse come into the house. She mostly like would not have died on the floor or starved to death without you "being there".

Again, totally agree.

It can be very hard to walk away from someone that you have had a long relationship with, and it can be hard to say no when you feel the person needs help from someone. But above all, you have to take care of yourself.

[rebeccaC]

Again, totally agree.

It can be very hard to walk away from someone that you have had a long relationship with, and it can be hard to say no when you feel the person needs help from someone. But above all, you have to take care of yourself.

I focused on dealing with negativity because I don’t know a lot about the behavioral, neurological and chemical aspects of depression. I would assume manipulative behavior can be part of managing painful emotions and an indication that the person doesn’t have the skills to deal with it. For a good friend and someone I cared about I’d want professional guidance on the best way to help them without enabling destructive behavior. I’d also look at it as a positive learning experience for me.

[ny biker]

I focused on dealing with negativity because I don’t know a lot about the behavioral, neurological and chemical aspects of depression. I would assume manipulative behavior can be part of managing painful emotions and an indication that the person doesn’t have the skills to deal with it. For a good friend and someone I cared about I’d want professional guidance on the best way to help them without enabling destructive behavior. I’d also look at it as a positive learning experience for me.

If someone is insulting you and causing you health problems and having her mother call you an awful person because you're not sacrificing enough of your well-being to help them, that person is not a good friend.

I once read something about a group of people who were climbing Mount Everest. There was a point where one of the guides had to leave a person behind, even though he knew it would mean that person would die. It was hard to do, but it was necessary because if he had stayed with that person any longer, the guide would have died too. He had to make the choice to save himself.

I think sometimes you have to make that difficult decision. You have to decide to take care of yourself, because the cost of helping someone else is just too high.

[Irulan]

Agreed.

I'm way past giving anyone a pass on their behavior because of what might be the root cause.I've been through hell too but it doesn't mean I have to be toxic to my community. Sometimes the best way to help someone without enabling them is to give them full accountability for their behavior (even it if is driving you away), or to not prevent a crisis if one if is in the making.

[Crankin]

NY and Irulan, your thoughts are so right on. I wish more people lived by the premise of "take care of yourself first." Not just my clients, but everyone. The analogy I give people is that it's the same principle as what they tell you to do on a plane; put the oxygen mask on yourself, before you assist your child. Time and time again I've been called cold and mean, mostly by friends, but clients often say this is the best advice they've been given.

[Irulan]

Thank you. I will say this, it's been a long journey to emotional health and I continue on that journey every single day. (umpteen years of therapy and continued 12 step work) I personally never had to deal with disconnecting with a toxic person but I've been surrounded by many who have; I've been a witness. Part of it is that you have to get to a certain level of emotional health yourself before you can start to see the toxicity around you.

[lph]

She's become incredibly judgmental of everyone around her all while insisting people should not judge her. So, she's pushed anyone away that we used to hang out with. It's hard to see because I know what she REALLY wants at the end of the day is people to be around her. It's just that she can't stop practicing behaviors that turn people off.

I'm just going to pick up on this one, because I was given a short tough-love lesson many years ago. I was griping to some friends about how I felt some other people were being judgmental about my life, and one of them grinned and said, "well, isn't that just what you do?" and then - this is important - roared with laughter. It hurt, but at the same time it was delivered gently, with affection. And it made me realize that I actually did go around being judgmental a lot more than I thought I did. I still do - I do hold strong opinions for example when it comes to environmental issues, but I don't pretend to be non-judgmental. And I try really hard to not be judgmental about the small stuff.

My point is that many of us probably do stuff like this, and a depressed and self-centered person even more. If you can manage to enlighten her gently, that's great, but it's difficult. Maybe just talking generally about how it's hard to not judge other people when one has strong opinions, and using stuff you or she says as an example, and see where that goes.

[colorisnt]

That's an interesting way to handle it lph.

There are many reasons that this person means a lot to me. She's been good to me in the past but man, I just can't do much with her anymore. It's hard because it's like another person has replaced her. Apparently, her own mother and a good friend of hers (and mine) told her the EXACT same thing last week and she blew it off. I'm not sure how to help. She came back today having spent $200+ more over the weekend and is still complaining about her expenses. The difference is that today I said, "Yeah, well, maybe then you can set a budget for what you can spend." And she was all, "No, I needed x, y, z" for wants not needs. So, I told her, "Then I don't want to hear about you overspending. It's bothersome to me. It makes me worried about my own expenses since I worry about you." She went off in a huff, of course, but I felt better for saying it.

She's spent over $1000.00 since February. Is there a 12-step program for shopping? That's a month salary for her. I make almost double that because of my fellowship and I still can't spend like that!

[tulip]

Ultimately it's up to her to decide to change. You cannot make her change her behavior, be nicer, or stop shopping. Frankly, she might fall quite a bit further before she decides to take action, if she decides to do so. It is not your responsibility to rescue her. You can recommend she get help, even make calls for appointments, but that's about it. It sounds like she needs medication and therapy, but you cannot provide that. It's up to her.

[colorisnt]

Tulip,

Thanks. You're right. I can't change her. She has to want that.

[nuliajuk]

I have a relative who has been hospitalized from time to time with paranoia and psychosis. The one thing they discouraged her from doing when she was in the hospital was forming friendships with other patients. Although it seems like a great thing to have a buddy who knows what it's like, the doctors have found over time that people with problems tend to feed each other's problems when they spend too much time together... if that makes any sense.

[colorisnt]

No it absolutely makes sense.

I have a friend with OCD and Bioplar I and while I love and care about him, I find that he sort of "gets off" on having "worse" problems than I do if that makes sense. That's why in the past year, I've kind of pulled away from him. I think it's worse for him to see me when he's not well that it is for me to see him.