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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Western Canada-prairies, mountain & ocean
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    Sounds like atypical install for a sesparated bike lane, Eden.

    No matter what separated bike lane is installed, there does need to be lights installed at the intersections particularily for busy roads. Preferably with green bike lights, pedestrian-cyclist activated lights...which are found at various bike routes in Vancouver. NOT in Calgary. (It's so sad, to be pedestrian or cyclist in our downtown area while you wait.)

    The reality in some areas, the cars have to slow down in general. The car drivers are forced to be less important and slow down by having less car lanes on a road. (This is road diet..reducing the number of car lanes, installing pedestrian-cyclist activated traffic lights so that the street area is more pedestrian-bike friendly.) So where do cars go?:...that's why a city tries to have public transit...


    Or the bike lane intersects a one way street...which doesn't even permit a right hand turn.

    As for the right hand turn...it's less of problem if it's only 1 car lane that can turn right. Not 2 lanes of car traffic turning right...really intimidating in Calgary. A bike lane running through this road configuration could not be done in this type of situation. Very common in this city. I've never seen it downtown Vancouver. I don't recall 2 lanes of right hand turning traffic in downtown Toronto or maybe I avoided it. I have cycled downtown Vancouver and Toronto alot since I lived/worked in these areas for several years.

    This bike path is over 15 km. long 1 way. At one point it devolves into a bike lane from the bike path. So there needed to be physical barrier separation from trucks.
    By Toronto's Waterfront, on other side is a community garden around for the last 20 yrs. See thumbnail at end of my email. I can't seem to attach the photo correctly.

    This is a well-known separated bike lane that runs into downtown Vancouver, Dunsmuir St.




    Why are bike paths so evil to some cyclists? I firmly disagree. Otherwise you end up on the major Trans-Canada highway with cars gunning down at 110 km. per hr. beside you on wide shoulder.
    This is a new bike path that's 24 km. long one way between a Canmore and Banff National Park. Now there are more cyclists --experienced and newbies. As well as children.



    Dearies' blog just on the front page has a range of photos illustrating some bike lanes, some good, others not great when he cycled across U.S. this summer-fall and earlier in Europe. Actually his blog has a ton of examples....it's part of what he does when he cycle-touring: http://thirdwavecyclingblog.wordpress.com

    So is this a terrible thing below? Or should there be a slightly raised curb for this/barrier?
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    Last edited by shootingstar; 11-18-2012 at 07:28 AM.
    My Personal blog on cycling & other favourite passions.
    遙知馬力日久見人心 Over a long distance, you learn about the strength of your horse; over a long period of time, you get to know whatís in a personís heart.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    2,051
    In other forums, this topic comes up very quickly and instantly turns into a flame war. People feel so strongly on the subject. It's interesting that I haven't seen the bike lane argument on TE before (I've been here 2008, but I don't read it exhaustively, so it's possible I missed it if it has been discussed).

    As always, we manage to be civilized in our discussions.

    Personally I just don't have strong feelings about bike lanes and bike paths. Some of them are really nice and some are awful. Some lure the cyclist into door zones and debris, and some are well designed and clearly indicate where the cyclist should take the lane for a left turn. The arguments end up being "all bike lanes are evil" or "bike lanes are great" but the reality is that thoughtful design is what matters. Increasing the number of bike-car conflict points is poor design. Failing to consult cyclists who will be using the facility is poor design. Letting the facility be hijacked by the loudest protest is poor design. Too many bike lanes and paths have been designed for purpose other than cyclist convenience and safety--to get "them" our of "our" way, as a way to increase their safety without inconveniences like speed limits and wider roads.

    It's sad when paint is thrown on or taken off capriciously. It's sad when facilities aren't maintained. Those sorts of things send the message that bicycling isn't important, it's not a legitimate way to travel. It's even sadder when a well meaning government pours a lot of resources into a badly designed facility.
    2009 Trek 7.2FX WSD, brooks Champion Flyer S, commuter bike

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Uncanny Valley
    Posts
    14,645
    Okay, I thought we were talking about streets in town.

    I have zero problem whatever with bike paths that parallel limited-access highways in remote areas where there are no general use roads. When non-motorized transport *can't* use the road, and when vehicles can't turn left or right except at exit ramps that over/underpass the bike route, then that's completely different from what I thought we were talking about. (You don't picture the ramps ... and if the bikes have to share the ramps with cars on the exits then again I think it's extremely dangerous ... but I'm going to assume that if someone went to the trouble and expense to build that, then there are over/underpasses and separate bike entrances to the crossing roads, as well.)

    But, those are expensive to build and maintain, and another thing that probably isn't going to happen in the current global economy.

    I am a little bit surprised to see the bike route separated only by curbing and "median," without any fencing, in your bottom picture. I'd be less worried about the cars, than I would be about uneducated cyclists trying to cross the road away from the exits.
    Last edited by OakLeaf; 11-18-2012 at 08:01 AM.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Western Canada-prairies, mountain & ocean
    Posts
    6,981
    So enlighten me on the two most common issues.

    (1) Proceeding straight through an intersection. How are the bike lane separators designed so that cyclists are clearly visible to vehicles that are turning right from the cyclists' left? How do vehicles intending to turn right from the cross street, onto the street where the cyclist is, pull up so that they can see the traffic running parallel to the bike lane, without interfering with the cyclists' ability to go straight?
    One way to deal with improving the visibility of cyclists stopping at an intersection in a separated bike lane, is to have the roadway markings for stopping the cars, that is slightly staggered behind the first cyclist that stops at the corner.

    I'm not confident that just having wider roads is going to get car drivers to pay attention or more respectful. I just don't think car drivers think that widening a road is for cyclists (without a painted bike lane), they tend to think widening a road lane is for them as car drivers and to move more quickly. Let's get real.

    Dearie and I were cycling on one of the San Juan Islands and were stunned how wide some the road lanes were....on an island. It made no sense. The traffic was quite moderate. We were cycling in some small towns on a weekday when people were working... a more accurate reflection of regular traffic patterns.
    My Personal blog on cycling & other favourite passions.
    遙知馬力日久見人心 Over a long distance, you learn about the strength of your horse; over a long period of time, you get to know whatís in a personís heart.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    2,051
    Quote Originally Posted by OakLeaf View Post
    But, those are expensive to build and maintain, and another thing that probably isn't going to happen in the current global economy.
    A pretty good argument can be made for bike infrastructure because even bike paths are a tiny fraction of the cost of a highway. When gas goes up, more people bike, so there's another argument for more bike paths when the economy is bad.
    2009 Trek 7.2FX WSD, brooks Champion Flyer S, commuter bike

 

 

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