"People in Oregon must be poor."

[cindysue]

.a bus driver forced a 4 year old off her bus in a strange neighborhood cause he got on the wrong bus. the kids older brother recognized him and took him home WHAT WAS SHE THINKING????

better question: what the heck is a 4 year old doing by his/herself in the first place?

[Crankin]

Excellent thread. I grew up in a "close in" suburb of Boston. I spent all of my time playing in the woods or just "out in the street." I remember gangs of kids on their bikes, out until it was dark. I was going into Boston on the trolley, alone or with friends when i was 12.
That said, I noticed a distinct difference when I moved to sunbelt states at 16 and 21 (Florida and AZ). No kids out on the street. No teens riding bikes. No public transportation.... This was one of the reasons we left AZ. The saddest day was when my then 3 year old went into the shrub bed in front of our house in Tempe and said, "Look Mom, I'm in the woods!" Anyway, to make a long story short, my kids, now 21 and 23 played out in the woods. They made forts. They jumped off the deck into the snow and all kinds of sort of dangerous things. When they were young we lived almost 10 miles from their school, but when we moved my youngest rode his bike to school in middle school. He saved for a mountain bike and that very act change our whole family! He started riding, got a road bike, started racing, my husband started riding, then I did. If I hadn't let him ride to school, we wouldn't be riding now. They also did electronic things, especially computer games, but we limited it. By the way, I always worked, they were in daycare, we had a nanny, etc. and I didn't breast feed. I see many of the same comments from my students, Veronica. We went on a short hike on a trail for a science lesson andout of the 75 kids on my team, I'd say about 12 knew how to act in the woods, without complaining. They are not allowed to play outside, unless it's a structured activity. My kids spent many mornings laughing at the other moms and dads on our cul de sac who drove their kids to the bus stop... when our kids were standing out in the rain or snow....

[massbikebabe]

My oldest is going to college in Boston in the fall. She was not worried about how she would get around...she just assumed we would find her a bike small enough for her to commute on...



karen

[betagirl]

Wow, interesting thread. I'm not a sociologist but a clinical psychologist in training. So I can add my 2 bits from a "professional" standpoint, but I'd rather just voice my opinion in general

I'm one of the approximately 1/3 of "gen X" (I just turned 30) who has decided not to have children. Many people who are either in the other 2/3's or other generations attribute this to me being "selfish." Now I may change my mind at some point in my 30's, but right now I highly doubt it. My clock isn't ticking. Anyway, is it being selfish? Maybe a little. I like my lifestyle, which includes traveling, working, going to school, hanging out with my friends, and basically not being "tied down." I enjoy children immensely when they're not mine.

But I have to agree with the statements about kids being raised on xbox verus bikes. Grant it, I had a TV in my room when I was a kid and grew up on "sesame street" etc. But we were really active kids. There were no such things as "play dates" or the like. We all got together in the neighborhood and ran our a**es off til it got dark. Gotta be home when the street lights come on I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, so it wasn't a bad area. There were still abductions, I'd guess as many as there are now. But as has been said, it wasn't all over the news as much and we didn't have "amber alerts" or the like.

I don't know if you watch the Simpsons but there's an episode when Krusty the Clown's show gets really boring so the kids all go outside to play. When they step out they have to rub their eyes and adjust to the sunshine. Unfortunately that's a very accurate social commentary, and I think it's getting worse. With the pervasive fear-mongering going on via the media, I can understand why some parents would be worried about their kids safety. So instead we're raising a generation of overweight kids with really good hand-eye coordination.

I'm sort of all over the place in this post, but I think I want to mention the story I saw recently on the news that Americans are getting more accepting of being "fat" because so many are overweight/obese. That floored me, even if I understand it psychologically. Why fight the inevitable right? Yet we pump billions of dollars into the "fad diet" market, and billions more into the healthcare system to treat adult onset diabetes, heart disease, and other "lifestyle" illness. It's sad.

If I do have kids, I plan on having them ride a bicycle out of my womb.

[Veronica]

It's not selfish to not have kids - you're doing your part for the environment.

I wish you had to pass a test to be a parent. Or that parenting classes were mandatory - sort of like driver's ed. And I wish there were limits on how many you could have. I have a 20 year old niece, pregnant with her third. Her first is just like my brother - her dad - and quite the handful. And she's doing great with two - but what happens if she gets another one with my brother's temperment? They can barely afford two.

V.

[Lise]

Hi, all, great thread.

I rode my bike all over as a kid, and the best feeling I have on my bike nowadays is that feeling of freedom I had, almost flying on my bike. It's one of my happiest memories. There were tons of bikes at every school and park, because everybody rode their bikes.

I work at a city health clinic in a neighborhood in Chicago where my bike would be stripped in a heartbeat if I locked it outside. I got permission from the clinic administrator to lock it downstairs in the womens' locker room. The last time I rode to work, the security guard followed me, yelling, "You can't bring a bike in here!" Jeez. If they had a safe place for more people to lock their bikes, maybe we'd see less disease. That stupid little incident aside, Chicago is a bike-friendly city in a lot of ways. Our mayor, Richie-Baby-Doc-Daley-Mayor-For-Life, is a cyclist.

Breastfeeding. Obese kids. Don't get me started. In as few words as possible: Rich people get richer off the misery of the poor by selling them formula, junk food, and gadgets. And how about early, early onset of menses, largely due to the hormones in milk and meat, and the high fat diets? Sad times for the human race. Our abundance has some horrible downsides.

Lise

[betagirl]

Chicago is a bike-friendly city in a lot of ways. Our mayor, Richie-Baby-Doc-Daley-Mayor-For-Life, is a cyclist.

LOL

I remember the day I went to work and he ripped up Meigs overnight. I worked on the 46th floor of the Aon building and my window faced south. I looked out and saw these huge black x's on the runways. I was like WTF.....ohhhhhhhh.....nice.

[FelesRidet]

There's a great book that came out last year by Judith Warner: Perfect Madness, Motherhood in the Age of Anxiety.

Every generation has a different culture or definition of what good parents should do. Our current culture is immersed in anxiety - about their childrens' education, their future prospects, their safety. As a result, we have become hyper-concerned about micromanaging every aspect of our children's lives.

It has often startled me when I got disapproving looks for: letting my children play in the mud, go without shoes, dress themselves (badly). Now my kids are older and still the mothers in my scout troop freak out if their daughters get their shoes wet!

[doc]

It has often startled me when I got disapproving looks for: letting my children play in the mud, go without shoes, dress themselves (badly). Now my kids are older and still the mothers in my scout troop freak out if their daughters get their shoes wet!

Hear Hear!! My sister's theory is "A dirty boy is a happy boy" and I'm sure she's right. She has two sons. I have daughters who are naturally averse to mud. So I think the female corollary has something to do with how badly they dress themselves and their rat's nest of long hair that they fixed themselves. I am sure people who don't have kids look at them and think "What an awful mother those girls have. She doesn't care about their appearance..." Sensible parents who have been there certainly laugh to themselves and know the kids dressed and groomed themselves because Mommy was absolutely not allowed to help!

I can't imagine what the anxiety ridden mother's say!!!

[bouncybouncy]

HAHA!!! I am just laughing thinking about seeing kids in their "outfits" they picked out themselves...AND MOMMY DIDN'T HELP they are usually so proud of themselves!!!!

I do not have kids but have seen this many times and it makes me want to be a kid again so i would have an excuse to wear what i end up wearing sometimes...haha

[Trek420]

vaguely related, slightly OT: rode to work today, I'd wondered who belongs to the matching baby-blue cruisers I see locked at the BART station. So today I found out.

As I was heading for the elevator the young couple rode up, they seem cheery and happy to be riding to BART on cute matching cruisers with their helmets securely on tight...backwards!!

I smiled, waved, pointed at my helmet, said "your helmet, it's on backwards". My smile was returned but I'm not sure they understood English, hope the visual (point, motions turn hat around) was enough.

[DirtDiva]

But that's the way all the cool kids are wearing them these days.

[Lise]

But that's the way all the cool kids are wearing them these days.

HA!

I see kids (and their parents) wearing their helmets tipped back at a jaunty angle, and think, "But how cool is major head trauma?!"

[mimitabby]

I just read a blog about this:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/04/11...un-column.html

Lenore Skenazy wrote a piece for the April 4 edition of the New York Sun about letting her 9-year-old son find his way home from downtown NYC using the subway system. Many people were upset with her.

Isn’t New York as safe now as it was in 1963? It’s not like we’re living in downtown Baghdad.

[jobob]

Rats.

I was thinking to myself "cool, betagirl is back!" but then I realized this thread was over 2 years old.