A fitting and a little secret

[Owlie]

After nearly three years with my Giant, I finally got around to having her fitted. The LBS I went to does the Specialized BG Fit system. The fitter/mechanic-in-chief and I determined that while I am absurdly flexible, I have wonky knees that tend to track inward rather than in a straight line. So he spent a very long time fiddling with seat-post height, insoles, shimming and cleat positioning. I think it was at least an hour. It seems that I have a microdiscrepancy in leg length, which made it take a lot longer. Then we moved on to the rest of the bike--he actually moved spacers around to drop the bars a bit, then gave me a shorter stem.

The stem was the only part that we replaced, since I mentioned upfront that I'd have to do anything else piecemeal, being a poor student. He recommended eventually switching pedals to either Speedplays or SPD-SLs (something with a shorter spindle), narrower bars (38cm vs the 40cm that the bike came with), and possibly a zero-setback seatpost if the knee pain doesn't resolve. He also recommended that my next bike/drivetrain upgrade be a compact double. I haven't had a chance to test out the changes, since the pollen counts are too high for me to take it out for a decent ride and be comfortable.

I noticed they had a Cannondale CAAD10 in my size. I asked if I could take it for a test ride. Wow. Color me impressed. Very smooth ride without feeling dead, corners beautifully (within my "chicken" parameters), and I know it would be fast if I wanted it to be. There was a little "but this isn't MY bike!" going on at the beginning, but by the end of the ride that had vanished. The fitter actually said "I think you've found your next bike. You looked very comfortable on it." I think I may have found my next bike. I haven't had a chance to test the Ruby yet, but the CAAD10 exists at a much friendlier price point...(Shh, don't tell my Giant.)

[indysteel]

Fittings are so worthwhile IME and IMO!

Out of curiosity, why did he suggest a compact double? Are you on a triple now and does that, at all, influence why your knees were tracking inward? I ask because mine do the same thing and I know it has a lot to do with q-factor (the width between the pedal spindles). And what pedals are you currently using? I have Look Keos; I wonder if I'd be better off with Speedplays because of spindle length. I've already switched to a compact. Triples cause my right ITB to hurt terribly as a general rule.

[tulip]

I also ride knock-kneed, and have to focus on good form when I'm riding. I have a compact double on my Luna and a triple on my Bike Friday. I have not noticed a difference in comfort and my knees do not hurt.

Congratulations on finding your next bike. Sounds like an incentive to finish up school and get a graduation present!

[emily_in_nc]

I had a compact double on my Aegis Swift and a triple on my Bike Friday. After my pelvic fracture/surgery, it hurt to ride my Bike Friday but not my Aegis. I could never figure out exactly the difference because there were geometry differences (seat angle, etc.) as well, but q-factor was definitely a possibility. I am glad this thread came up as it reminded me of that.

I ended up selling the Aegis because I wasn't doing that kind of "go fast" riding after my accident, but in the end I regretted it as I would have liked to have had it to compare with my Friday years later to see if I still had pain only on the Friday. It may have been that years later even the Aegis would have caused me pain, but perhaps not.

I do think if I buy another road bike in the future I'll stick with a compact double and Speedplay pedals, just in case that makes a difference.

[Miranda]

OK, I am not a doctor, though I do play one on tv, haha JK!

But anyrate, to those of you saying your knees go in-ward on your pedal stroke, I had to dig out my Andy Pruitt's "Complete Medical Guide for Cyclsits" book as I recalled reading about this when looking some things up for my new shoes cleat placement.

There is such a thing called "forefoot varus" that affects up to as many as 87% of feet. This link is not from Andy, but some other random website I googled that had some sort of pic...

http://www.thebikebutler.com/images/kneealign.jpg

Basically it's saying if your forefoot has this funky slanted shape your knee will drive inward towards the top tube in your pedal stroke, vs straight up and down like a hammer.

He also gives some methods of correcting that if that's the underlying issue. I believe orthotics.

Fwiw.

Also, I would agree on the q-width factor. I hated my triple on my old Giant roadie. Ok, granted I'm in the midwest, vs CO. But I like my two rings much better. I feel my knees are happy also. And just in general my pedal stroke seems better. I have a compact double now. I kinda hate it, frankly. And am thinking about switching to a standard double. Reason being I miss my 39 ring. The 34 ring is worthless imo and I end up riding the 50 all the time. My Shimano Ultegra bolt pattern on my crankset is not compatible to just switch out the rings themselves the wrench said, so just saving to get a whole new set.

Owlie, I'm glad your fitting went so well. And your test ride on your future bike was fun too. I was happy to see my old Giant bike sold. It was two frame sizes too big for me from a diff lbs (who screwed me over). Live and learn (expensively). Praying for tree pollen to be done soon also. Good Luck!

EDIT ADD: This just popped into my head... when I had my bike fitting, I was able to watch myself pedal in a mirror in the trainer. Just my right knee goes inward for some reason. But then again I do have scoliosis (among other med stuff) &my body is just funky to one side, including that foot (&that knee was injured before). Just food for thought if you are able to watch yourself pedal.

[hebe]

I hope the changes work well for you

The Cannondale does sound like your next bike!

[Owlie]

I just have a strange q-angle, I think, because my knee will move inward even without pedaling (the test that the BG Fit uses is standing on one leg, then bending that knee--both knees will cross the center line). So he recommended a compact double partly for that reason, especially if I find that SPD-SLs or Speedplays don't work for me, and partly because 1) it's getting harder and harder to find a triple anyway on a complete bike anyway, and 2) the shifting is nicer and cross-chaining isn't as big an issue.

Miranda, it's interesting to hear you say that you want to switch to a standard double. On both bikes I've tested with compact doubles (the CAAD10 and the carbon Synapse), I've ended up in the really high end of the cassette on flat ground (using the smaller ring). It seems kind of silly.

[Jo-n-NY]

I am glad to hear your fitting went well. I am also a firm believe of them. I just want to clarify the Cannondale CAAD 10 and the Ruby. I believe the CAAD 10 is Aluminum and the Ruby is all Carbon. That is the reason for the price difference. The CAAD also sounds like a more aggressive fit where the Ruby you will get a more upright comfortable fit. The comparison in the 2 rides will probably be quite different.

[zoom-zoom]

I am glad to hear your fitting went well. I am also a firm believe of them. I just want to clarify the Cannondale CAAD 10 and the Ruby. I believe the CAAD 10 is Aluminum and the Ruby is all Carbon. That is the reason for the price difference. The CAAD also sounds like a more aggressive fit where the Ruby you will get a more upright comfortable fit. The comparison in the 2 rides will probably be quite different.

Yes. The CAAD 10 has the same geometry as the SuperSix, but the SS is carbon. The Ruby appears to fall sort of between the SuperSix/CAAD and Synapse. I really wish our LBS carried Specialized, since I think the Ruby would really be the most ideal bike for me, at least on paper. The Synapse was too relaxed, but there are days when my SS is too aggressive...especially on really long rides.

[emily_in_nc]

I just have a strange q-angle, I think, because my knee will move inward even without pedaling (the test that the BG Fit uses is standing on one leg, then bending that knee--both knees will cross the center line).

Mine too, Owlie. I think a lot of women have this issue because our hips are wider than a man's. I've seen pictures showing how women have a tendency to be a bit knock-kneed.

Agree with you on all the reasons for a compact double other than this too! I really enjoyed mine when I had it. I tended to ride in the 50t most of the time, but I appreciated the 34t when I hit a big hill, that's for sure!

[Artista]

One of the things that I learned from my physical therapy is that weak inner thigh muscles are a factor that can influence our knees to collapse inward while riding and performing exercises like lunges and squats. I'm sure that there are other influencing factors as well but doing a gazillion lunges and squats with proper form, (knees over toes), has strengthened my inner thighs so that my knees no longer collapse inward as easily.

[Owlie]

Yes. The CAAD 10 has the same geometry as the SuperSix, but the SS is carbon. The Ruby appears to fall sort of between the SuperSix/CAAD and Synapse. I really wish our LBS carried Specialized, since I think the Ruby would really be the most ideal bike for me, at least on paper. The Synapse was too relaxed, but there are days when my SS is too aggressive...especially on really long rides.

The Specialized rep I talked to back in August told me that while it's "endurance" geometry, it's not exactly relaxed. It would be a nice compromise, and Spec's geometry fits me quite nicely with a shorter stem. It's interesting that you say the SuperSix can be too aggressive. I'd have to see if I could give both a longer test ride.

Edit:
So maybe I lied. It looks like they tweaked the Ruby to be a truly "plush" ride since the Amira was introduced. The top tube's even shorter than that on the Dolce. (In my size, 52.4 cm vs. 53.2.) The numbers for my sizes in each (51 for the CAAD10, 54 for the Ruby) are quite close (reach, seat tube angle, top tube length), so at least fit-wise, either of these is a viable option. The biggest thing is the head tube height. I'd be very interested in comparing how they climb (well, I fail at that, so...) and corner, as well as road feel.

[goldfinch]

FWIW, my fitter had me get Speedplay pedals that were special ordered to have an extra short spindle.

[Owlie]

I've had some chances to take her out to get used to her (series of 15-mile rides), and I got a long ride in over the weekend.

My neck and shoulders don't hurt anymore. Well, my right shoulder started complaining a little around mile 30 or so of a 40-mile ride. The more aggressive position is a lot friendlier to my lower back, oddly enough. I need to keep up my core work, though--that should help my shoulder. The handling is twitchier with the shorter stem, but was much better on Saturday's long ride with two full water bottles.

I'm still getting a touch of pain in my right knee, though this seems to sort itself out after a few miles. I'm still getting a hot spot on my left foot, so it's probably pedal-switching time (or will be), but it's not as bad as it was.

The one thing that has actually changed for the worse is the saddle. I can't tell if it's just a matter of adjusting to the new position, because every ride is a little different. The thinner-chamoised shorts are much better, but I'm getting pain and chafing in a pattern similar that from my old Selle Italia, minus the bulk of the back-of-the-leg chafing. This does not bode well...

[Roadtrip]

Excellent you had your fitting!!! I too found my bike twitchy after the shorter stem was installed. I'm hoping you get the issues resolved soon!