Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Click the "Create Account" button now to join.

To disable ads, please log-in.

Shop at TeamEstrogen.com for women's cycling apparel.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 44
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    575

    Beginning Running Has NOT Been Fun!

    To disable ads, please log-in.

    So I got a bug to begin running. I don't particularly like to run but I like having run. I'm in pretty decent shape but didn't want to risk seriously injuring myself as I started my routine. I got a C25K app for my iPhone to work into running slowly.

    The first run was fine. I was proud that I had gotten started and looked forward to my second run. On my second run I tried to correct my tendency to toe out on one side by consciously pointing my foot forward. Bad idea! I managed to cause pain just below my knee on the side that I tried to correct. I went to my lrs to have my gait and shoes analyzed. Their opinion was that my natural form was pretty good, I didn't toe out too badly, and that I was already in the best shoes for my feet and ankles. They suggested that I let my body do what it wanted to do without trying to correct anything for at least a month until I built up some distance.

    I continued to experience mild discomfort in my lower leg going up and down stairs over the next few days. I also managed to strain something in my groin on the other side by doing nothing more than rolling over in bed. I rested for a few days. I still experienced some discomfort from the injured body parts but they felt better as long as I was careful with my bio-mechanics.

    I decided to try my third run today after a solid, walking, warm up. I felt some discomfort from the injured body parts during my first few running steps but nothing major. Then I pulled my groin on the other side about 30 seconds into running! I presume that I my form was poor in an effort to protect the sore body parts. The poor form may have contributed to the groin pull on the other side. I "cried Uncle", drove home, climbed on my bike trainer and did intervals. I'm not a big fan of "nowhere bikes" but at least nothing hurts when I ride.

    I'm beginning to wonder if I'm just not cut out to run. I don't enjoy it enough to work with a coach to overcome these problems. I'm thinking that I'll ride the trainer for a few weeks until I can get all of the strained body parts healed up and maybe try running again. If it doesn't work then, I'm done!

    I'm really just gritching here...and expressing my disappointment in my failed running attempts. I'm open to suggestions, though, if anyone has words of wisdom to share.
    LORI
    Pivot Mach 4 / WTB
    Updated Vintage Terry Symmetry / Bontrager InForm RL WSD

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    2,041
    Last year I decided to start running. I didn't really have running shoes, so I started looking online and reading reviews. People were really raving about barefoot shoes "back then" (a whole year ago). So I got a pair of Vibram KSO Trek.

    I'd heard that you need to break into them gradually. I thought that wouldn't be a problem for me since I was just beginning running anyway.

    My running was really loud compared to other people who used those shoes. Slap-slap-slap. I asked about that and someone said that those shoes teach you to run with proper form. I watched people run, I experimented with different forms, and I realized that I'm a heel striker. I decided I should land on the ball of my foot.

    It didn't take long to develop stress fractures in my left ankle. I had built up gradually with the shoes, but I had then suddenly changed my running form and it hadn't occurred to me that that, too, needed to be gradual.

    It took a few weeks to heal. I read about Chi Running and decided to correct my form once again-- no heel strike, but not ball of my foot either, more of a midfoot strike. I am gradually increasing my running this time. I decided that I can run 30 minutes without a problem, so I took that as my base. I'm using an increase of 10% every 6 weeks-- very slow increments. I've heard you can do 10% every week, but "Daniels' Running Formula" said every 6 weeks and that seems safer to me.

    According to Chi Running, 85% of runners experience injury! There's new fad shoes and fad running forms and fad running programs all the time. Chi Running may be just another fad. Barefoot running may be just another fad. I actually want to go all the way barefoot for a practical reason. Shoes generally last about 500 miles of running. I can save a lot of money if I run barefoot! I'm such a cheapskate.

    When I started back to running I was very nervous about injuring myself. If a run made me sore, I didn't run again until the soreness was completely gone. So I only ran a couple times a week. I asked around about that, and a doctor told me that I could run sore so long as it wasn't getting worse. Using that approach, I was able to increase to 3 times a week, and after a couple weeks I'm no longer sore at all. In a couple weeks I'll be adding in a 4th run per week.

    If you have injured yourself, it's very important to heal completely before running again or you'll make it worse. That's what I did with the overuse injury stress fractures in my ankle. It hurt, I ran anyway, it hurt more, I ran anyway, it hurt a lot more, I couldn't run or walk. When I finally went to a doctor I was told I should be completely pain free for a couple weeks. (He may have said for 3 weeks and I ran that through my own wishful-thinking-interpreter.)

    Don't know if my story is inspiring, comforting, or depressing. It's fine to adjust your form but any adjustment should be made gradually. When I switch to actual barefoot running, I plan to carry my shoes with me and only run as long as it is comfortable, gradually and slowly increasing the amount of time I run barefoot.
    2009 Trek 7.2FX WSD, brooks Champion Flyer S, commuter bike

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Beautiful NW or Left Coast
    Posts
    5,619
    I'm not a runner, but just turning your toes in when you run is not going to fix the issue. your toes out posture is a result of entire groups of muscles that are out of sync. Just turning your ankle in does nothing for the back, buttocks, thighs, etc that are also involved in this postural problem. Sorry, it's just not that simple. I think if you're going to run, (after you heal) you should not fuss about your toeing out so much...
    I like Bikes - Mimi
    Watercolor Blog

    Davidson Custom Bike - Cavaletta
    Dahon 2009 Sport - Luna
    Old Raleigh Mixte - Mitzi

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Looking at all the love there that's sleeping
    Posts
    4,171
    Mimi may not be a runner, but she is wise.

    As a beginning runner (1.5 years of constant struggle and a ambivalent/hate relationship with running...I can't honestly say I have ever grown to "love" it), I think the best two things I did was 1. Have a gait analysis done with a trainer. This trainer identified issues and gave me prescriptive exercises to correct muscle imbalances. And 2. Watch ChiRunning videos and take a ChiRunning clinic. While I can't say I 100% incorporate ChiRunning form into my workouts, I do try. And it makes me aware of what I'm doing.

    Yeah, my co-worker and I josh around with "Shut up and run" but for those of us who are not natural athletes, didn't spend our high school years running track, and took up this sport, um..."later in life" - it's not a natural movement and yeah...you have to give it some thought and some effort to be sure you're doing it correctly.

    It's a learning process, and it's not going to happen with 1 C25K program, or 3 runs, or even a season of running. It's ongoing.

    ETA: Oh, and #3 would be to make sure I had proper running shoes - which you seem to have done - so great going there! I couldn't run to the end of the driveway without hurting myself until I got a pair of shoes that were designed for my awful feet.
    Last edited by 7rider; 02-19-2012 at 06:38 PM.
    2007 Seven ID8 - Bontrager InForm
    2003 Klein Palomino - Terry Firefly (?)
    2010 Seven Cafe Racer - Bontrager InForm
    2008 Cervelo P2C - Adamo Prologue Saddle

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Uncanny Valley
    Posts
    14,501
    Well. The Chi Running approach would be that you should correct the turn-out by turning in, not by forcing it, but rather by relaxing your whole leg and allowing it to track straight. Obviously there is a muscle imbalance, but Chi Running holds that the most effective way to correct that is to bring your muscles into balance while running. There are other opinions, obviously.

    But it does take awareness. I think that's true for everyone.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Columbia River Gorge
    Posts
    3,565
    Following a slow progression in a plan is a great way to get started. Try to stick to the plan progression but you can always stretch out the timeline if needed. You can also take a break for a week then start back up with the last week that you completed to be on the safe side.

    As for form, there are a lot of different types of runners out there. Sometimes little running asymmetries are meaningful and sometimes they are not. You could have a muscle imbalance as other people have said and that might be worth sorting out, or you could have a slight difference in the anatomical alignment of your skeleton, most likely the angle of the neck of the femur. If that is the case, trying to push yourself to toe-in might be very counter productive.

    What I tell new runners is to have fun and don't over think it. Run and try to find joy in being outside and running. If you end up with more injuries and want to continue to run, well then you'll have to have some assessment done to sort it out. Or if you decide you love running and want to train for longer distances, then again you may need to adjust things to prevent injuries as you increase mileage.

    But for now, rest until you feel better then just run for the fun of it.
    Living life like there's no tomorrow.

    http://gorgebikefitter.com/


    2007 Look Dura Ace
    2010 Custom Tonic cross with discs, SRAM
    2012 Moots YBB 2 x 10 Shimano XTR
    2014 Soma B-Side SS

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Bendemonium
    Posts
    9,673
    A local coach commented the other day that injuries are most common among new runners who are fit from other sports, start out too much/too fast, and don't get a bit of coaching.

    Local running shops usually have weekend groups or weekly runs with varying degrees of expert help, but a little research should help you find some help with minimal expense.
    Frends know gud humors when dey is hear it. ~ Da Crockydiles of ZZE.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Concord, MA
    Posts
    13,394
    I'm pretty much with Artista. I have a love-hate relationship with running. I am sure I love the idea of running, but it's just hard and painful most of the time. I am pretty tough with pain, which is how I got my stress fracture last fall. It's pretty much healed, in that it's not hurting when I do other sports now, but as soon as I try to run, even a little (like 3 3 minute intervals) it's aching again. And I am so slow. I did manage to increase my mileage when i was running consistently, but speed, not so much. Perhaps the comment that those coming from other sports overdo at first, is true. While I am not a fast cyclist, either, I am OK for an old lady who started in her late forties.
    Some have said maybe I should just forget about running, but there's something that makes me not want to give it up. What I do need is different shoes; that's a whole other issue. I got a pair of sort of minimalist shoes a year ago, so as not to inflame my bunion. Unfortunately, that's when all of my issues started. I need heel cushioning. I've been using my training shoes (like for the gym) for my strength and core class, which involves some running and jumping, as well as when i run on the treadmill. But, I won't use them outside.
    2015 Trek Silque SSL
    Specialized Oura

    2011 Guru Praemio
    Specialized Oura
    2017 Specialized Ariel Sport

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, OR
    Posts
    5,023
    I was in your shoes (probably, quite literally!) two and a half years ago. In my case, I was also overweight, too. And man, did I HATE running...with a passion. In fact, my hatred of running is what got me to buy my first road bike 5 years prior to that.

    I needed to learn to run to do a triathlon. So I put on my old/new shoes (old style, brand new pair that had never been worn that I'd saved) with my old orthotics (custom from a podiatrist) and followed the C25K program. I really had to force myself to stick to the prescribed intervals because I REALLY wanted to do more than it was letting me. But I made myself stick to it. Oh, and I'd read Chi Running, so I was using those techniques as well (a few of them, anyway). I found that it was easier to get the Chi running techniques without my orthics, so I removed them. So far, so good.

    When I'd progressed to about 20-25 minutes of running, my old ball-of-foot injury came back. What struck me as weird was that my feet always felt better when I took my shoes off after the run, so I decided to try kicking them off DURING the run. (I was in socks on a treadmill). Interesting...no pain. So I saw a new podiatrist and told him of my discovery. Sure enough, the shape of traditional running shoes were forcing my toes to crunch up.This tweaked the way my foot was landing causing injury to my sesamoids and the nerves and tendons around them. When my toes were allowed to spread, the pain was less and my foot could heal properly. So I searched high and low for the right running shoe for me. That's a whole multi-page post in an of itself, but the end result was that I had discovered that with the right shoes, I COULD run foot-pain free. So I kept going, slowly working my way up as I conditioned my calves and the muscles and tendons in my feet and lower legs (this took quite a while for me). There was a LOT of pain in the beginning, both when I was running and when I wasn't.

    By May, I'd gotten to where I could survive the run on my first tri (a 5K leg). That was 7 months after I started - so it was not a fast transition. Then I ran sporadically all summer, competing in a few more sprint distance triathlons.

    The following fall, I decided to focus on running for the winter, so I did more of it. I had a simple training plan designed to get me a good base so that I could follow some of the more advanced triathlon training plans. As I lengthened my runs, I started realizing that I was pain free for the first 3 and then 4 and then 5 miles. That was encouraging. By the following May, I'd dropped 5 minutes off that 5K (in a sprint tri) time. But I still had to force myself to run. I was still not a fan.

    I signed up for my first half marathon last fall. Last August, I started really focusing on my run training in prep for it. I was running further and more importantly, more often (and consistently), and I started to enjoy it. At some point, I realized that my pains were pretty much gone unless I was increasing my distance. When I got up to about 18 - 20 miles of running per week (total, not in one run), I started actually craving the run. Wow! I enjoyed that half marathon and promptly signed up for more of them!

    And now I really like running. I'm still not fast but I really, honestly enjoy running. I still have occasional sucky runs, but most of them are either ok or really good. And pain from running now comes only when I do something new (like increase distance or intensity). I no longer have pain just from running like I used to.

    I'm relating all of this to encourage you. Keep in mind, if you are not a runner naturally (and if you did not run in HS, then you probably are not a natural!), it takes time. If you had told me when I started that it would be 2 and half years before I was able to run completely pain free, I might not have bothered. But it's a reality for some of us. Don't give up. Take it SLOWLY. And listen to your body.

    I'm here to tell you that it's worth it. Looking back now, I'm SO glad I stuck it out. It did suck...but it really and truly is worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melalvai View Post
    . I actually want to go all the way barefoot for a practical reason. Shoes generally last about 500 miles of running. I can save a lot of money if I run barefoot! I'm such a cheapskate.
    You don't need to go totally barefoot to save money on shoes. Shoes with zero cushion don't break down like those with it, so they last WAY longer. VFF's and shoes like mine (NB Minimus) that have no cushioning only need to be replaced if the tread wears out or the uppers fall apart. I found that I didn't have the patience to really condition the soles of my feet to true barefoot, so the shoes I wear now are a great compromise. They are way more comfy in the winter, too.
    My new non-farm blog: Finding Freedom

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Uncanny Valley
    Posts
    14,501
    Heh, the tread on the midfoot of my shoes with plenty of cushion are nearly worn through after 450 miles.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Something more new runners need to hear and follow is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "don't overthink things."

    Yeah, I'm not a fan of overly bulky running shoes, but I'm also not sure that the barefoot trend is any better when we are a culture of people who are shod the vast majority of our waking hours--like most things, moderation is key. People who try to completely switch to barefoot running without any gradual transition often end up very injured. And attempting to change one's form without any real reason for doing so is generally unwise, as well. Kids run all over the place and never give any thought to whether or not they have "perfect form." You'll also see elites who are heel strikers mixed in with the midfoot and forefoot strikers. Messing with one's natural form can be a recipe for owies!

    I did have to work a little on my form maybe 6 months after I started running, as I was over-striding and starting to have issues with my right hip flexor. I don't have long legs and attempting to make myself have a long stride was counterproductive. I essentially had to stop trying to have a long-striding form that wasn't natural for my body. If the Chi/Pose methods work for people it's because they help runners to stop trying to go faster by taking longer steps, which to a new runner may seem like the way to get faster, but often ends up the way to get injured faster. Since bulky-heeled shoes cushion over-striding foot plants, people want to blame shoes for causing their injury woes. More minimal shoes don't cushion the heels as much, so they make overstriding uncomfortable. It is possible to run without overstriding in a bulkier shoe...but why wear the shoe if the bulk isn't necessary, though.

    I'm personally a fan of what typically falls into the lightweight performance trainer category -- sort of midway between a barefoot shoe and a bulkier trainer. I still need my Superfeet insoles, though. I wear them in my cycling shoes, as well. Within a week of trying to go sans Superfeet I will invariably feel it in my right knee.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by zoom-zoom View Post
    Something more new runners need to hear and follow is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "don't overthink things."
    Yes.

    Part of what I love about what running - and what's pulled me back in after a 4 year break - is the discipline. I have to be disciplined about going for my runs, about pushing when I need to push, about eating well and drinking enough water throughout the day to run well. But, I also need to be disciplined about *not* running too much/too often/too hard and not overthinking it. These last two are more difficult than the other things.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Uncanny Valley
    Posts
    14,501
    Good article (actually a collection of opinions): http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...?newsfeed=true
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    575
    Thanks for the great input everyone. I'm seeing two themes here. One is that many of you worked through lots of problems to become runners and that I shouldn't give up too soon. The other theme is that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    I should point out that while I never considered my tendency to toe out as being "broken", a physical therapist that I worked with to rehab my broken ankle led me to believe that it was a problem. The therapist was constantly after me to straighten out my foot and keep my knee over my toe to protect my knee during the exercises. This idea was reinforced when I read Chi Running. I thought that straightening my foot while I ran would protect my knee. It sure didn't turn out that way, (although the pain isn't so much in my knee but right below it). I'm just gonna go back to my natural way of moving after this experience.

    Oakleaf, I haven't read the link yet since I wanted to acknowledge everyone's responses before it got too late. Looks interesting, though.

    I'm off to ice my leg. Now I'm looking forward to trying to run again. I don't love it yet but I'm open to the possibility.
    LORI
    Pivot Mach 4 / WTB
    Updated Vintage Terry Symmetry / Bontrager InForm RL WSD

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    Quote Originally Posted by Artista View Post
    I should point out that while I never considered my tendency to toe out as being "broken", a physical therapist that I worked with to rehab my broken ankle led me to believe that it was a problem. The therapist was constantly after me to straighten out my foot and keep my knee over my toe to protect my knee during the exercises.
    Sounds like trying to drum up business, IMO. Yeah, if you're doing lunges or squats you want to concentrate on your form, but trying to change your natural form too much while running is recipe for disaster. It's like trying to force your foot into a degree of rotation on the pedal that doesn't feel good. some people's toes point quite straight ahead, while others are more comfortable with a bit of toe-in or toe-out. I know that if I rotate my cleats even a degree too far one direction or the other and have pedals without a little bit of float that my knees and hips and glutes feel it almost immediately.

    If your toeing-out had never caused issues before I really have to wonder why a PT would encourage you to change. Is the PT a runner, themselves?
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •