Broken Bike Shop Model?

[Seajay]

I was reading yet another inquiry from a new rider who ended up with perhaps a horribly wrong fit/size/style of bike from an online vendor.
Nothing against you, Clarousel. I'm very glad you are considering taking up cycling. It's a fun sport, you can meet lots of friends and gain some great fitness.
I hope you can get the size issues resolved and start riding safely and with joy.


However your and other's posts prompt the question...
I have to wonder what is so broken about the local bike shop model that a new enthusiast with essentially no experience, like Clarousel, is more likely to buy a bike sight unseen online than to visit a shop to pick out a bike.

• Are "we" doing one thing REALLY REALLY bad or many things SORTA bad?
• What's missing?
• What would you like to see change?
• Has it become that the ONLY measure is price and we are fooling ourselves thinking we have more to offer?

I'd love to hear some feedback and your thoughts of a solution.

[goldfinch]

Yes, I think that the assumption is that online will be cheaper. Another assumption might be that bike shops are for fancy bikes where super fit people who wear spandex go. I know that I kind of felt that way. Another assumption some people make is that they can figure things out on their own, with the help of online resources. Sometimes you need the experts. Whether it is medical, legal or bike shop.

I wish bike shops did more beginner stuff, like beginner rides. Sponsoring family fun rides could build up a reputation that bike shops are for everyone.

[Catrin]

...
I wish bike shops did more beginner stuff, like beginner rides. Sponsoring family fun rides could build up a reputation that bike shops are for everyone.

More REAL beginner stuff, like beginner rides that are really for beginners. I remember being told that they had an easy "no drop" ride...but then they started using terms like "we sweep at 14 mph". It took more questioning on my part to find out that they had a different definition of "no drop" than I did. I STILL don't ride fast enough on an average basis to participate in their slowest of rides...and this is my favorite LBS.

That didn't turn me off of riding, hey, I know I am slow and I've no problem riding by myself. It would, however, make things seem more welcoming to beginners if an LBS did have at least an occasional real beginners ride, and not use fancy terms to someone they know is new. It is an easy trap to fall into.

[Marquise]

If I wasn't married to a cyclist, I'm sure it would have been much harder for me to ever get started, largely because I would have thought there was much more difference between me and people in the LBS than there is. I'm too easily intimidated when dealing with people who I perceive to know much more than me or have much more experience than me, though fortunately I'm much less so than when I was younger. Also it's great that you can learn so much (and shop) online, but you don't necessarily know what you're missing when you take that approach to the exclusion of dealing with real live people who might be able to help a lot and save you from making some serious mistakes.

[Koronin]

I also think it depends on the bike shop as well. I've been in some really good ones and some really bad ones as well as some in between. We have two locally. One that's been here for a long time and one that opened up this past summer. The new one is actually the kids of the the parents who own the old one. However, the attitude and the way they deal with customers is so very different. The old one will push certain things and do not really listen to what your saying. The new one they really listen and try to fit what you want/need with what they have.

[ny biker]

I expect that many people don't realize how important face-to-face service is.

[Kiwi Stoker]

Because everyone grew up just getting on any old bike and riding it. Didn't matter if it was too small or too big (my dad clamped wooden blocks to my Raliegh 20 because I wasn't tall enough and the seat wouldn't go any lower so I could ride). Joe Blow understands seat height but little else about a bike.

So with that experience of riding hand-me-down bikes or your firends bikes, you think it would make sense just to order a bike you like and you can ride it. There's no understanding about the science behind a bike at all. There's no education. I watched heaps of parents buy bikes for their kids or bring in bikes for "bike checks" as part of a annunal kids tri that happens and the state of the bikes and helmjets is bad. Parents just don't understand that the old hand-me down is now dangerous- mkissing grips, worn saddles, no grease on rusty chains, helmet worn on the back of the head... and more.

And it doesn't help that often bike shop people forget that people don't know or even have a hint of this and start bombarding them with questions. Joe Blow had walked in there thinking "oh I pick up a red bike for me" and then is asked "what type of riding" etc and I guess that's off putting. A website doesn't ask you 20 questions before you buy

Another thing I am also a bit shocked at is that some stores have a policy of clearing floor stock first. I meet a girl on a too large Pinarello mid-level model. She had the seat lower, tiny stem and still she was rocking side to side.

She was told this was the smallest frame. Given no option. I ended up convincing her by getting on her bike (and I was taller than her) and showing why it was too big and then making her get on my smaller bike. Total laziness of the bike shop!

[Gypsy]

Yesterday, I approached by a woman who saw me on my bike and she told me she was thinking about getting a bike for herself but that she thought she was too short to find a bike.

She had never considered going to a bike shop for the reasons that some have listed here -- she was intimidated by all the people in spandex, she didn't really know how to buy a bike, and not really understanding how the shop can really be of a big help.

I think part of the problem is that the shops don't make more activities/rides that are attractive to novice riders. Maybe there isn't an incentive there because a novice rider can easily drop the hobby/sport and never give the shop another thought.

I also think it's the design of the bike shops. There's one here that tries to look like a normal retail store and consequently, I think attracts more types of people, even just casual shoppers. The other bike shops around here are trying to be sleek and modern and end up being intimidating for the average person that just wants to walk in and look around.

[ridebikeme]

As someone who has been in the industry for twenty years AND owns a small shop; it was very interesting to hear all of your replies.

With that said, the online business is something that is definitely taking jobs away from your local area... less property taxes are being paid etc...

My shop has always offered events for every ability level and age, although I would also say that quite often people choose not to participate. We've hosted family rides where we wear normal clothing, races, road rides, mountain bike rides, trainer rides... you name it and we've done it. Although there are probably some people who appreciate it and partcipate, others you simply can't "rally" to participate .

One of the issues that I have with online is that in most sales you do not pay state sales tax. Right off the top, your local area is being affected by this and it's a huge impact at not only the brick and morter, but also at the state level. (for those states that have a tax)I'm sure that we have all heard that 68% of all money spent locally stays local. So in an era when we all want more jobs, why is it that we are contributing to something that is hurting all of us?

I think the thing that bothers me the most is that as a society, we look for medical advice, information on building/repairs, and things that it's hard to diagnose over the computer.

Lastly, I realize that there are some shops that do a better job than others, however that is true with all of us here and in all of our professions. I've said this before, if a shop truly wants you business, then they will listen to your suggestions. If you don't say anything, then we truly have no reason to complain.

So the moral to the story is to communicate... talk with your local shop, help others who may be 'first timers', having a bad day or perhaps simply are a bit slower. We are all part of this job solution; and I for one hope that my nephews are left with a better state of the economy than it is right now.

[PamNY]

Because everyone grew up just getting on any old bike and riding it.

I think that's really the important issue. Once upon a time, I had no idea how important bike fit is -- how would I know that?

I don't know how a bike shop could educate people who see no reason to walk into the shop in the first place!

[Crankin]

Honestly, I have never met a bike shop I liked. There may have been parts of some I liked, but not the whole thing. There are a lot of shops here, but basically, as stated by someone else, if I didn't have a DH who is a cyclist (and a racer son at the time I started riding) and a very proficient mechanic, I'd be dead. I would have walked away. Even with DH accompanying me for the first road bike purchase, I got treated like shi*t or ignored. I was aware of all of the "roadie" stuff that goes on in shops because of my DH and son, so I chose to ignore them. And why would I pay full price for the clothes? OK, it's not just the full price, it's the huge mark up, especially at the LBS where I bought my bike. Most of the jerseys there cost $200.00. After spending at least 15K on my 2 bike purchases, I don't even get a discount. And, those referrals DH sent them (at least 10)? No discount for that, either.
Maybe a woman owned shop would be better? I don't know. The LBS I bought my bikes from has a woman manager who has horrible mood swings and a woman mechanic, who is good, but I don't have many dealings with her.
I think it's probably the same for beginners in all sports. I went into the LRS to buy shoes a couple of years ago and although the owner was very nice, when I said I was a cyclist who ran about 3-4 miles 2X a week, I got the hairy eyeball from the group of other runners who had just come in from a run sponsored by the shop.

[bellissima]

I agree with ridebikeme is mostly about saving money. Quite to often a customer walks in pick the shop’s brain and with the new acquired knowledge at this shop, turns around and just buys the product from an internet retailer that had a smoking deal.

[Gypsy]

Let me add one more thing!

I do browse online because I hate going into stores. I just don't like shopping, in general, it's not about bike shops in particular.

One of the things that I don't like about the local shops here is that they don't have prices or a lot of information on bikes on their website. Compare that to an online shop where you can browse and see prices and then, if you're feeling impulsive, you click on "buy now" and whoa! you made a purchase.

I'm sure that it's probably not feasible for local bike shops to have a strong online presence. But I do think that would help.

My local bike stores claim they have no drop rides or beginner rides, but again, they aren't real beginner rides. I had contacted the owner of one (I posted here about it) and supposedly it was a no drop ride, but they dropped us by mile 2. The SAG moped kept up with us for a while to make sure we were okay with a promise to ride with us the following week, and then took off with the rest of the group.

The store that has a friendly retail space also has workshops (for women, for fixing bikes, for fittings, and more) and is very friendly and open. I like them, except for a couple of things: they don't take American Express and they are relatively far away from me. But they have great sales on clothing (so I buy from them when I can) and their mechanics and staff are generally really friendly.

The store I did buy my bike from is more intimidating and the staff is mixed -- some is really worth their weight in gold, others... not so much. But their prices are high and they don't have as many options. I purchased from them because I like the distance from my house, I liked the bike, and they have a "club" that you join where you get an automatic discount of 15% if you pay $25 per year and you can participate in their "beginner" ride (yeah right).

[Owlie]

I have had a number of LBSes, just due to moving around a bit.

No matter how nice and helpful the staff is, it's really intimidating to go into a bike shop as a newbie, doubly so if you don't have a friend or significant other who knows at least something with you. I salute those of you who took it up on your own, because I don't think I could have done it. My Cincy-LBS is a very slick 'corporate' bike shop where people with lots of money and spandex go. And while some of the staff are pretty awesome, some of them make me want to bash my head against a wall.

The LBS where I bought my bike hosts two sets of group rides that are billed as beginner, from either of its locations. One is beginner-friendly on a nice paved bike path. The other is 30 miles in a very hilly area, with cobblestones! I never went on it because I didn't have a car to get there, but my friend did and she said it kicked her butt--and she regularly commuted to campus (with hills involved) by bike.

It's also much harder to comparison shop in a shop because there's no easy way to compare specs except by looking at the bike. Even then, the only places where the componentry levels are obvious is the rear derailleur and maybe the crank arm...and the manufacturers know this.

There's also the price thing. If you look around, you can find a number of bikes for less than LBS prices. (I admit it: I wish I had $600 lying around so that I could have picked up the Terry Symmetry in my size on Bonktown!)

[jyyanks]

I agree with most of the sentiments here, especially what Owlie posted.

My LBS is also intimidating and if you are not an experienced cyclist, it's hard to get their attention and even harder to ask questions without feeling like a total idiot. They are the biggest bike shop in the area (multiple stores) and are in a very ritzy neighborhood.

There is another small LBS by near me who is wonderful but they don't carry many brands. I only learned about the recently and tend to bring my bikes there for maintenance.

In my area, cycling seems to be a male dominated sport and unfortunately, many male cyslists in my area that I've run into have a very elitist attitude. These cyclists frequent LBS #1 and quite frankly, I hate going in there unless it's empty. They do have rides on weekends but they are not beginner friendly.